Is there any other way to make money making sex games?

Crimsequal

Newbie
Mar 30, 2020
29
113
I've been a 2D artist since I was a young kid and I eventually got exposed to 3D graphic design as I got older. Also have some background in programming languages so I think I can work with the existing framework. I have lot of ideas on how to make current games better in terms of graphics, scenes, scripting and just general polish.

That being said, it looks like the only way to make money from it is through patreon. They ask for tax and personally identifying information and I don't really want to be tied tax-wise or any in anyway to NSFW content creation. Is there a way to circumvent this?

I mostly want to make good shit and not worry about the it getting in the way of me getting a job in the future or getting some sort of position that requires your background to be squeaky clean.
 

262177

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,572
1,290
You do NOT need Patreon unless you want to feed them triple taxes, but that's your call. I see you noticed (wise of you) that they tax, yes, and not only do they tax, but they overtax. It's not just a 'fee'. Check for other platforms if you absolutely feel like you need a platform.

You mentioned you were proficient in 2D art, 3D art, you have some coding skills and from what I can tell, your writing style isn't half bad either.
a lot of ideas
If you want to get a job later, you'll end up getting that project of yours in limbo.

Stick to one project, decide on what works best for you. The most common engines that seem to be used are Unity (zero experience with it), Ren'py (mostly for visual novels, works well with both 2D and 3D, requires minimal Python knowledge and has great documentation) and RPG Maker (mostly MV/MZ because they're the latest ones and use JavaScript+JSON natively, allowing for both the developer and end user to modify the code and fix things if needed).

Itch is a great way to distribute your content but may not be suitable depending on the content - check their terms of service first. A good bunch of devs here use here (I don't, unfortunately, so I can't help) so they will be happy to assist you with its pros and cons. You can let your customers name their prices when they download a new version with a set minimum (that can be zero).

For more contentious content, there's SubscribeStar and pixiv fanbox, as well as other platforms, if you really need a platform.

Since you apparently want to focus on delivering *quality* (while still being able to work a full-time job), this means you'll be spending a lot of time polishing and nitpicking on details. A 'deadline-based' platform (even though you aren't technically bound to deliver anything by the end of the month and can opt for a pay-per-post option instead for several platforms, a subscription-based platform will usually have the monthly mindset, even more so if content is *locked* permanently after the month ends (e.g. Fantia, Enty, though you can remove that option or set a more reasonable timeframe; they will still charge your backers every month and automatically renew their subscriptions, and will also not allow them to browse until the end of the month - to my knowledge, only pixiv fanbox allows for this, for everything else, you have to subscribe again, though it is free for Fantia as long as it is within the same month - it still means your backers will be anxious and keep a close eye on content).

The above platforms actually do care about the details you mentioned and will never ask you to come clean (especially when Patreon itself is known to be shady - double standards much). You'll unfortunately have to be a social animal (I'm not), as most platforms also allow for comments and I don't think you can disable that.

To try and make a tl;dr of this wall of text: If you want to deliver NSFW, go for something that allows contentious content, do NOT use a payment processor that won't even allow porn, and if you can, try commissions. In fact, commissions are your best bet if you want to work a full-time job. If you are open-minded, take all kinds of commissions and draw/render rather fast and efficiently, you can deliver quickly and not worry about checking comments all the time.

Commissions will also allow your customers to use direct payment as a substitute to a payment processor, without sharing any kind of identifying information with or from your customers. This also effectively means a 0% fee (except for any fee that would normally apply where you live, or whatever fee is used with the direct support method you choose).

Another failed tl;dr since it's pretty much half of the post, but hopefully this gives you some pointers! :)
 
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Alcahest

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Jul 28, 2017
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. No matter what you do, if people give you money for nsfw content, you are tied to nsfw content. Even if people came to your home and paid you in cash, that would be you getting money for it. And by circumventing taxes, you are effectively now doing something illegal. How is that better than doing it legally on Patreon? How would someone even know you're getting money from Patreon for nsfw content?

If you're so afraid this will come bite you in the ass in the future, then don't do it.

And btw, I pay about 10% in fees on Patreon. That's not much. Other fees and taxes along the way eat up way more in my case.
 
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Jofur

Member
May 22, 2018
251
272
If you want to make money of a product you get taxed. That's just how the world works.

Either go the benevolent route and just make unpaid stuff for the enjoyment out of it, maybe have a bitcoin donation option or something(not sure if they tax you if you buy stuff only in bitcoin and never convert it into real money), or give some corporation your name/bank details.

I'm sure there is some "off-brand Patreons" out there that are more focused on privacy and security that might make tax evasion easier, but 1: it would be incredibly illegal, and 2: way less people are willing to give their money to sites they don't trust, so you would probably be making pennies on the dollar compared to Patreon.
 
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Crimsequal

Newbie
Mar 30, 2020
29
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You mentioned you were proficient in 2D art, 3D art, you have some coding skills and from what I can tell, your writing style isn't half bad either.
Thanks, yeah I've always wanted to create my own anime or my own fiction book, but I never really saw any opportunity really make a dent since they are often way too competitive, especially the screenwriting industry. I even considered creating my own manga. That's why I think the writing would be my strong point if I were to make one. I feel like so many of the games have overly simplistic plots with a lot of cliche overused tropes. Also, I don't like how a lot of the games don't have proper pacing. They don't incorporate too many foreshadowing practices either and other best practices. I have some background in filmmaking and wanted to make use of that as well.

The fact that you can use sex games as a way to create a captivating story is really attractive to me and I really appreciate the detail in your reply.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. No matter what you do, if people give you money for nsfw content, you are tied to nsfw content. Even if people came to your home and paid you in cash, that would be you getting money for it. And by circumventing taxes, you are effectively now doing something illegal. How is that better than doing it legally on Patreon? How would someone even know you're getting money from Patreon for nsfw content?

If you're so afraid this will come bite you in the ass in the future, then don't do it.

And btw, I pay about 10% in fees on Patreon. That's not much. Other fees and taxes along the way eat up way more in my case.
I wasn't really planning on dodging taxes. I was more concerned about it being tied to my personal information. Through some research, I found that even though the tax documents are from patreon, they are required to have some documentation regarding the type of content you create that your patrons are supporting.

So if they anyone was to do a background check on me, it would show that I worked on NSFW content which would keep from getting certain government jobs. I also have a small business so it may keep me from acquiring certain high clearance clients.

If you want to make money of a product you get taxed. That's just how the world works.

Either go the benevolent route and just make unpaid stuff for the enjoyment out of it, maybe have a bitcoin donation option or something(not sure if they tax you if you buy stuff only in bitcoin and never convert it into real money), or give some corporation your name/bank details.

I'm sure there is some "off-brand Patreons" out there that are more focused on privacy and security that might make tax evasion easier, but 1: it would be incredibly illegal, and 2: way less people are willing to give their money to sites they don't trust, so you would probably be making pennies on the dollar compared to Patreon.
Honestly it seems like the best route for me would be to just start creating content for free. Maybe start with some concept art. I think if I want to be a creator I'll just focus on creating non-NSFW visual novels kind like doki doki literature club.

The Crypto suggestion is definitely interesting though.
 

262177

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,572
1,290
Glad the post helped but it looks like I misunderstood a few things.

You don't have to declare income if it's below a certain threshold. Or more accurately, you don't have to pay taxes on it, as long as it is a donation you received.

Platforms masquerading as tipjars do not count as donations or charities, but as services, and some of them exploit many legal loopholes. The only applicable tax technically is if a product (physical or digital) is delivered to the end customer. VAT, GST and (remind me what the third one is?) have clear limitations on their implementation. Make sure you check with an accountant, this is the case for both backers and creators, and if no one blows the whistle, this will go unnoticed. The government won't even know what happened. OnlyFans is based in London, UK, and the UK isn't exactly known for its permissiveness.

If you really wanted to get raped by Patreon (located in San Francisco, California, US), simply state you live in Hungary while also supporting a content creator who also claims to live in Hungary. Also ensure the creator does not create anything, so you are effectively using the service to back them and nothing more. Check how much money gets taken from yourself and from the creator. On top of the (legal) fee, you'll have to pay: bank fees (legal, only if you use a credit/debit card and only if your bank charges for it), transaction fees (also legal, depending on said transaction), as well as potential taxes you do NOT have to pay because they are entirely illegal. Unless your physical place clearly states that these do apply, and you have evidence of it going to the government (you can file anonymous requests for transparency, for free, to have a company investigated, directly through your government, again depending on the country, to ensure the government did perceive taxes).

Now let's get back to where I misunderstood.

If you don't want to pay any tax at all but still earn money, you will have to use donations. Commissions work this way as long as you do not exceed a certain threshold (country-dependent) and you do NOT use any payment provider (as you would pay a fee) or payment method that involves any kind of fee (cryptocurrencies also have fees - see mining fees - and they are getting closely monitored now that goverments hold a share and made them illegal for obvious reasons, not just for their own benefit).

You can also use platforms like Fantia running limited campaigns for new creators at a 0% fee (the legal creator-to-platform fee for using it as a service) and then opt out.

Now, I'm not trying to shill the government, but I absolutely loathe abuse of welfare state plans and relief (see COVID abuse, see Medicaid abuse) while clearly shady companies are trying to get away with it. Not even Google or Apple does this on Patreon's scale, as while they do perform some tax avoidance, it is legal. Tax evasion, or rather deliberate misuse of taxes that clearly don't apply, registers as a deliberate and malicious act of tax fraud on a large scale. Furthermore, encouraging third-parties (their own customers) to follow this scheme while violating their own terms of service also causes even more potential legal damage to the company. Unless they are exploiting a massive legal loophole on the international scale, there's no way out of this one, but an international commission has to sue first.

Sen. Chuck Schumer and the IST lost a few suits (back in 2012, and another one in 2016 if memory serves right) against Apple Inc. for monopoly abuse. Now this here isn't monopoly abuse. Don't send the IRS against Patreon. Simply have your country investigate and alert the IST, that's their job. There is no need to sue on your side, and you will not get damages. What you want is to simply have them out of the picture for running a criminal business scheme.

As this post will very likely get removed from public view (wouldn't exactly be surprised if F95 went shit do what now and tried to wipe the account when everything's already widespread anyway), I'd still like to add that F95 apparently tries its best to cover up what's going on with the more infamous creators running a full-scale Ponzi scheme. This is already publicly known information and has been reported a long time ago (back when it started and when evidence was collected, then provided to the proper authorities by enough parties). F95 sure as hell won't get involved in this as it is a piracy website (it does, however, state that it does not condone resharing of content as a disclaimer, while also conveniently using Patreon as the main platform while there are many alternatives, some of which are quite greedy, but at least not complete criminals trying to look like saints, just like Jacob Grady and On Takahashi, but this time, internationally).

tl;tl;dr: If donations aren't an option, get an accountant, and make sure you don't fall for obvious or less obvious scam schemes. You really don't want to get involved with something that may also end up destroying your entire life if you somehow make them 'look bad' (oh the irony), which you can provide as a counter-argument on how a completely fraudulent company is trying its best to look good on the surface, before wiping all of the posts mentioning 'Patreon' from all of your social network accounts you were dense enough to link to it (that includes F95, by the way, so to anyone who linked it: you did some research first, yes?)

That is all. If a moderator or staff member decides to 'delete' this post (emphasis on 'delete'), I respect their decision as I have said what I wanted to say and I am aware this may rile up certain people, especially if there is lobbying involved, and apologize for wasting their time.

And to the OP, don't feel too bad if something happens, you did nothing wrong, you asked a question and this poster jumped the shark to blow the whistle quite hard this time. This is just an account on the Internet. I have more than enough health issues in real life to concern myself with Internet stuff.

Remember to spread the word, and don't spread the word as fake news. Bring evidence with it, objective and irrefutable evidence, which you have relayed to the authorities beforehand. Boycott isn't something you do by brainwashing, it's something you do with evidence, by having people realize by themselves they're getting raped or that they're just idiots and you can't cure stupidity, so they won't boycott anyway.