Is this forum moderated with an approach that is too heavy-handed?

[botc76]

I've been here for some time and while in the beginning, there definitely were some instances where threads got out of hand overall this was a good forum to be in.

Heated discussions sometimes, but most of them resolved without any need for interference.
And let's be honest here, on a porn-sharing site, we are probably not so sensitive that a harsh word here or there will sent us weeping for our mothers.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that for me it feels as if some (not all) mods on the forum are somewhat overzealous.
They start deleting posts left and right, with half of them not being problematic at all, at least not to standards I've encountered elsewhere or here in earlier times.
Often the arguments are already solved amicably and peacefully and then suddenly, bam! half the conversation is missing.

I'm not a mod, I'm really thankful for the work and effort they put into this forum and I know no one could want a repeat of what happened with some threads, like fe. the Teacher's Pets one, but I also feel that mods acting too restrictive and unable to let anything just go by and play out by itself, actually hinder a forum and the conversations occurring there.

If I am acting like a dick, I rather have someone tell me in unfiltered words and prompt me to consider my behaviour, than to have any critical approach shot down, because a mod considers the tone inappropriate.
I mean, inappropriate is such a lax definition anyway, what's considered appropriate is almost completely dependent on the situation and the people engaged in it and many topics here would be completely inappropriate elsewhere.

I like this site and the community that has grown here, I hope this topic isn't seen as disrespectful, it's not intended to, more as a platform for constructive criticism, which I hope is still possible on f95zone.

 

[zerozip0]

I have only seen this a couple of times myself, the acting lessons thread got a bit offtopic at some point which prompted deletions of some posts. That was a bit harsh to delete the posts instead of asking people to stick to the subject, hand out warnings to individuals etc., but hey what can you do? It does feel odd when I do come across other threads where it is evident that posts have been deleted, reading many of those posts simply confuse as the answers and the posts that are referred to simply does not exist anymore. I feel like I am perceiving a conversation that an insane person has with someone or something that is not really there... So yeah, I would rather see the whole picture instead of half of it!

 

[Avaron1974]

I think they are too lax.

This isn't a free space, it's run by people as a place for others to get their games and discuss them and they should be able to do so free from abuse and the mods like to keep things on topic.

I haven't been here long so can't speak long term only what i've seen recently. I can get heated, I blame it on being ginger, but the times i've over stepped i've been warned and know it's my own damn fault. Same for the times I go off topic, I don't take much seriously and can take jokes too far and know they some times clean threads up.

Simply put, it's their house so it's their rules. A see a lot of people mention "free speech" a lot online but that doesn't exist on the internet, here you abide by whatever rules a website lays out or you get moderated.

If legitimate opinions within those rules start getting censored then i'd agree but the only time i've seen mods really step in like that is during major debates usually around NTR.

I don't think mods get involved all that much anyway. I hear a lot of horror stories from some women how they are treated online and I expected to get that here but I haven't had a single bit of abuse or disrespect. I've had arguments and banter matches but everyone, even those I haven't got along with, have kept things at a reasonable level so I assume things aren't that bad that warrants mod intervention.

There are games on here I think stretch certain rules that I don't think should be here but that isn't my decision and I haven't whined about it but I think the mods are a lot more lax than some folk make out. I haven't seen much oppression anyway.

I've seen a few mods get involved with banter which I don't see on many sites. I haven't got any complaints anyway.

 

[MerlinWizard01]

Too lax. When users start to behave in word and action as if they are still in kindergarten (which happens way too often) then the mods can behave like kindergarten teachers imo.

 

[Papa Ernie]

@botc76

Just in case you've never read them:

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[anne O'nymous]

And let's be honest here, on a porn-sharing site, we are probably not so sensitive that a harsh word here or there will sent us weeping for our mothers.

It doesn't mean that someone should have the right to shit talk.
You mix two things here. The personal reaction of someone isn't what make the rules. It's not because I'll not be offended if someone talk to me like if I was deep shit, that it's ok to not show some respect for the human being I am. The fact that I don't take offense is my concern, while the fact that someone shit talked to me is the concern of everybody.
And it works both way, it's not because one will be offended by nothing, that there should necessarily have sanction.

They start deleting posts left and right, with half of them not being problematic at all, at least not to standards I've encountered elsewhere or here in earlier times.
Often the arguments are already solved amicably and peacefully and then suddenly, bam! half the conversation is missing.

That change nothing. It's not because the problem is solved, that the cause suddenly become right and can be kept. It's a selfish approach of the problem, even when you aren't directly concerned by it ; the same difference between your own concern, and everybody concern, than above.
The mods don't act to protect one member, they act to protect all of them. They don't delete this or that, because someone have been harsh with the person he talked to, but because someone made a mess in the carpet of the house where he's a guest.
Therefore, it doesn't matter if the problem is solved and everything goes back to normal, or not. There's still something that shouldn't have happened and must be removed. And like you clean the streets even after the shitty guys who throw their trashes everywhere are returned home, the mods clean the threads even after the discussion ended.

 

[baneini]

F95 userbase consisting of people interested in pirating porn games leads to relatively lax moderation. It's mostly 20-30y old men who are fine with joking and being confrontative, instead of majority women who are quite clearly more sensitive and trigger happy to report posts or to complain about tone and hurt feelings. They do not want to argue, for them best option is have strict rules so mods can handle the arguments for them when someone isn't careful with their tone.

Since mods dont need to write a reason for post deletion they can just remove anything they don't personally like even if its completely within the rules and in normal tone. It happens depending on what mod follows what thread.

I've suggested banning talking about NTR since it's always the same one dimensional shitposting. Yeah we know you don't like it and want it to be optional. It's just spam at this point, spam that any game thread with ntr tag could do without. So in that case I'd say the moderation is too lax on a recurring issue that isn't conducive for discussion.

 

[botc76]

@botc76

Just in case you've never read them:

You must be registered to see the links

I mean, seriously? Like I've never read the site rules?

There's still a question how you interpret it, what constitutes as insulting, what goes and what doesn't, of preferring to let a discussion run its course, even if it gets a bit heated and watch how it develops.

Just yesterday I wrote someone should not be so aggressive and to please stop acting like a child, this was deemed inappropriate and I got marked up as insulting the guy.
And this with someone who had made several posts demanding that people stop "shittalking" a game he likes, that they should leave and whatnot... and with an aggressiveness as if he was foaming at his mouth.
Another time I replied with posting a meme joke in response to someone who was actually insulting me and got the same result. In this case the mod, after a short conversation changed his opinion, but it wasn't necessary.
Sorry that I can only make examples of reactions I got, but of course I don't know what happened to others.

Another time there was a misunderstanding in a thread, the intentions of a few posts had been misinterpreted but it had already been sorted out, again, there wasn't any insulting, just a bit of chest-thumping and it had already been resolved amicably.
Sure, if you approach the rules as absolute laws, with no leeway for common sense, then coming in afterwards and deleting 10-15 posts is only following the rules, but does it make sense from the perspective of someone reading the thread or participating in it?

And I've witnessed stuff like this many times. Personally, I believe freedom of speech is important, and of course there needs to be oversight and rules on a messageboard, but moderating should be done in moderation.
Otherwise a lot of the fun is lost, even if only because it's annoying if you have to check every sentence you write with regards of a mod possibly seeing it as in any way too unfriendly or to brusque. Especially considering that the mods seem to have vast differences in how they themselves interpret the rules.
Some might seem too lax for you or Anne, others seem to strict for me, some fall in between.

Most of the mods are and were participating members of the community, it's kinda fun to sometimes see their own behaviour and then see how they react when others do basically the same thing.

Also, I'm not questioning the rules, or the right of those running the boards to enforce them, just voicing my opinion on where I personally see room for improvement in said enforcing.

 

[Eoin]

Honestly, I'd say we're way too lax. Some days when there's a massive argument in a thread (and sometimes its off topic), I contemplate a mass banning.

But I/we almost never do that. We tell the offending parties that there's a place argue, and its not in the thread of a game. Those places are either in this thread's parent forum (General Discussions) or via PM's. Cause when a new user is looking through a thread trying to find info on the game (the ones that think for themselves and don't insta post "Android port" or some shit), they don't want to wade through a million pages of a shitty argument.

 

[Deleted member 15555]

for me is not right to come to a thread and start telling the dev, this game is trash because i dont like it or i wasted my time downloading this game....... of course those comments should be deleted, because they dont have any value for the community or the dev ...... thats why i said i did find it dumb and stupid to go to a thread and start shit talking a dev that have put so much efforth into their game, if you dont like the game as i said is okey but do so with respect

 

[baneini]

for me is not right to come to a thread and start telling the dev, this game is trash because i dont like it, or i wasted my time downloading this game....... of course those comments should be deleted, because they dont have any value for the community or the dev ...... thats why i said i did find it dumb and stupid to go to a thread and start shit talking a dev that have put so much efforth into their game, if you dont like the game as i said is okey but do so with respect

It's a forum for players to talk to other players. Comment about a game being trash is about the game being trash, not an insult on the developers person. Other people can read it and adjust their expectations before downloading. If a thread is overwhelmingly negative why bother downloading the game, so you could share other peoples experience of having a bad time?
Some devs are bad and don't produce content worthy of peoples time. Nice comments are better saved for good games of which there are few. There's value in accurate negativity.

Sure there's lots of worthless comments revolving around the money the dev makes and imaginary entitlement people have for timely patches because they want it, but they're harmless and easy to ignore.

 

[Deleted member 15555]

saying a game is trash based on your own opinión is a insult, there is a pretty difference saying " i dont enjoy this game for X and X" than go and say " this game is trash, the story is dumb and blablablá" is not appropriate.

 

[Eoin]

It's a forum for players to talk to other players. Comment about a game being trash is about the game being trash, not an insult on the developers person. Other people can read it and adjust their expectations before downloading. If a thread is overwhelmingly negative why bother downloading the game, so you could share other peoples experience of having a bad time?
Some devs are bad and don't produce content worthy of peoples time. Nice comments are better saved for good games of which there are few. There's value in accurate negativity.

Sure there's lots of worthless comments revolving around the money the dev makes and imaginary entitlement people have for timely patches because they want it, but they're harmless and easy to ignore.

If someone comments 'This game is garbage, don't play it', they should at least give a reason on why they think the game is a pile of shite, to allow others to form their own opinions. Some people take it to the extreme and not only trash the game, but the dev themselves, which is a big no-no.

 

[Avaron1974]

It's a forum for players to talk to other players. Comment about a game being trash is about the game being trash, not an insult on the developers person. Other people can read it and adjust their expectations before downloading. If a thread is overwhelmingly negative why bother downloading the game, so you could share other peoples experience of having a bad time?
Some devs are bad and don't produce content worthy of peoples time. Nice comments are better saved for good games of which there are few. There's value in accurate negativity.

Sure there's lots of worthless comments revolving around the money the dev makes and imaginary entitlement people have for timely patches because they want it, but they're harmless and easy to ignore.

If someone says "this game is trash" that means nothing to me or anyone else. We don't all like the same things so those comments to me are a waste of space better served by someone who can give constructive criticism as to why they think something is trash.

It's like those that go into threads to complain about a games engine or it's protag or some content they don't like. Nobody else other than that person gives a shit. I don't care if someone doesn't want to play a one legged gender bent trap nor do I care if they don't like RPGM, those aren't discussion points and waste my time having to scroll past them. It reached a point where I just started blocking people that made comments like that because they said nothing worth reading and it gets annoying scrolling through worthless comments.

Those are the kind of comments i'd delete if I was mod. They don't help improve a game or let anyone else know anything about the game they just waste forum space.

 

[baneini]

If someone comments 'This game is garbage, don't play it', they should at least give a reason on why they think the game is a pile of shite

If someone says "this game is trash" that means nothing to me or anyone else. We don't all like the same things so those comments to me are a waste of space better served by someone who can give constructive criticism as to why they think something is trash.

A game needs to be good enough for being given elaborate comments. Preferably the issues are such that the dev simply didn't thought of and you could inform them of the issue so they could fix them to further enhance the gaming experience.

Some games are obviously bad on all fronts, bad art, bad presentation, bad writing etc. In that case the comment becomes "everything sucks, fix everything". Often this is the case when the dev makes their first game, they never learned what works and what doesn't and to fix their current project would require scrapping it all which kinda defeats the purpose of learning by doing.
Make a shitty game but don't expect people to like it. Then the next game you make maybe more people will be invested in it being improved and they'll give constructive critique.

 

[anne O'nymous]

A game needs to be good enough for being elaborate comments.

No, it's the brain of the guy who make the comment that need to be good enough for this.
"This game is garbage, it lack of everything. The CG are lifeless and, view the amount of noise in every pictures, the guy clearly didn't goes full rendering. As for the story... what can be said ? Is there even a story, I'm not sure. You start the game without even knowing if you play a guy or a girl, facing your bed, and you don't know where you need to go, nor why you have to do other thing than just return to this bed and sleep to death. And I'll not even talk about the code... It crash more often than you breath."

See, it's not difficult... It's what make the difference between a (kind of) objective, "this game is pure garbage", and a purely subjective one. As a matter of fact, it's also what make the difference between dev bashing and giving your own opinion.

 

[W65]

Based on absolutely nothing but blind guesswork and my own experience--the most rigorous of foundations for argument--I'd bet a nickel that a relatively small number of thread topics need a disproportionately high share of mod responses.

Besides, I hang out in the download forum, where everyone is too busy trying to find game saves and walkthroughs to be uncivil.

 

[GuyFreely]

I've never personally seen a thread derail and disappear or whatever. The only real experience I had in this regard was there was a thread where people were having a perfectly normal discussion then someone posted a one line reply that added nothing and reeked of bigotry. Basically it was "If you do X then you are Y." I reported the post and within a few minutes it was gone. I don't know if it was my report that got action on it or not, but I was glad it was handled so quickly.

 

[Deleted member 15555]

when someone says "this game is trash because it has harem and no competition " for example, i find it insulting, and i find it insulting because no one can call something "trash" based only in their own beliefs.... you can say you dont like it and say why, but i dont think saying "this game is trash" because you dont like it is correct. We all have different tastes when it comes to games and thats okey, i think the mods are doing a good job deleting those useless comments.

 

[RedPillBlues]

Honestly I would have to say it's just right, for me anyway. I mean I've been on the receiving end of the mods a few times, 1 or 2 I feel were a bit questionable, but I've never felt like i'm unable to say what I want to say. I can't say theirs anytime where I've ever felt like a mod was stepping outside of what he should be doing; all the threads I've seen purged deserved it.

As for the people saying it's too lax I can't agree. At the end of the day this is a forum for people to talk about adult games and have a good time. Sure, someone saying they don't like RPGM make isn't the most "constructive criticism" and maybe it does get spammed but its not like they're posting it on the review page (Personally I think their are a few, not a lot, of games on the site that don't warrant anything but a "Its bad.") I don't know I feel like deleting posts of people who do shit like this would be a really slippery slope. Personally I feel that as long as people aren't at complete asses it should be left as it is.