I've Had it With Fucking Daz Studio

[badcock]

I know I went on a very frustrated rant and I appreciate everyone's response. Right now though, I'm seriously not interested in dealing with it. Maybe in a week or so.

 

[JJsworld]

This is what mine looks like... I still run Daz 4.12

 

[recreation]

So much wrong or only half-true information here
You know, I've done more than half of my game with a 1060/1070 and 8gb/16gb ram, even scenes with 9 characters in it + environment.
While it's true that more ram, better gfx and more vram make the whole experience a lot better and demands less optimizing, it's totally possible and actually not too hard to make great renders with lower end hardware.

 

[Snowsexxx32]

So much wrong or only half-true information here
You know, I've done more than half of my game with a 1060/1070 and 8gb/16gb ram, even scenes with 9 characters in it + environment.
While it's true that more ram, better gfx and more vram make the whole experience a lot better and demands less optimizing, it's totally possible and actually not too hard to make great renders with lower end hardware.

I'm sure that you can... looks over at my i5, 1070, w/16GB RAM and spinning disk for everything but OS and cache, just need patience with that one. I also totally understand that last post of getting burnt out when trying to solve optimization problems, I've taken months away from projects because of frustration too.

What does seriously perplex me though it running a rig that unbalanced, when the undersized component is relatively one of the least expensive and usually easiest to upgrade. While there may be some other underlying config or optimization issue, bringing the RAM in line with the rest of the spec of a rig I'm otherwise jealous of is the first thing I'd look at, well unless there were logged errors or other metrics just screaming at me.

I am curious though Rec, let me know if there's something you think I got wrong above, not sure if I'm an offender on this one, as I've followed some of your efforts in other threads getting interesting things to work. I'm particularly suspect of why DAZ didn't seem to touch my swap at all (<0.1% swap usage when testing), and if that's consistent with what others see.

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]

OP said they were experiencing crashes. Most likely candidate is they are running out of memory. Yes, you can render just fine with a lower quality machine but it comes down to what kind of scenes you are building. If all you are making are a couple figures on a backdrop then its no big deal. If you're rendering entire neighborhoods, cluttered interiors scenes and groups of figures then 8gb/16gb simply will not cut it. There are scenes which may take 16gb/32gb just to load up and that doesn't give your OS or whatever else much room to breath.

 

[linkinn]

recreation He didn't ask how to optimize or anything related to that, if you throw the characters/envs as they come out of the box and try to render them all together as it was in his case it's definitely a ram problem. Now, he could learn how to optimize his scene, render in parts, but that's another discussion. And you can't deny that having a 3090 and 16gb its kinda weird.

 

[MissFortune]

So much wrong or only half-true information here
You know, I've done more than half of my game with a 1060/1070 and 8gb/16gb ram, even scenes with 9 characters in it + environment.
While it's true that more ram, better gfx and more vram make the whole experience a lot better and demands less optimizing, it's totally possible and actually not too hard to make great renders with lower end hardware.

This isn't an optimization issue. It's obviously a RAM issue. As someone running a similarly spec'd PC to the OP, I'll just echo what Fatalmasterpiece said. It's easy to use a lot of RAM in Daz:

3 person scene, two Genesis 8.1 males and a G8 female below (cut off) in 2K. Granted, there's zero optimization here. But with just a single tab (this one), Daz itself, and DIM open, half of my 64GB is gone. As mentioned, that's not a lot of room to breathe for the average computer. Sure, you can lower textures of your figure, your environment, hide unseen objects, use efficient lighting, and everything else. But the reality is that with the current state of Windows, you almost need 16GB of ram to do anything besides web browsing at the same time. A 3090 shouldn't be having these problems, and provided it doesn't have any issues internally, then RAM is obviously the most likely culprit.

You should also probably specify that a scene with 9 figures (which I'm assuming were likely G3, or heavily lowered G8 characters) + environment on a 1060/70 with 8/16 GB of ram most likely chugged its way to completion. Probably a few hours, at best. So, yeah, you can render just fine on a lower-end system. Like yourself or sn00p(sp?), but any decently complex scene will most likely handicap your PC for a while. Depending on specs, of course.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You know, I've done more than half of my game with a 1060/1070 and 8gb/16gb ram, even scenes with 9 characters in it + environment.

But before that you tried to understand the software and its configuration ; therefore, you made it works with what you had.

It's obviously the best approach but, also obviously, it's something that haven't hit the ground if you write such tantrum like OP. He received answers adapted to his unspoken question, not just its letter but also its form ; "buy a better car" is sometimes an answer more valid than "learn how to boost your motor".

 

[recreation]

But before that you tried to understand the software and its configuration ; therefore, you made it works with what you had.

It's obviously the best approach but, also obviously, it's something that haven't hit the ground if you write such tantrum like OP. He received answers adapted to his unspoken question, not just its letter but also its form ; "buy a better car" is sometimes an answer more valid than "learn how to boost your motor".

I know what you mean, but that's like telling someone to buy a new car because one tire is low on pressure. Yes, a new car will probably be faster and more comfortable, but maybe you want to try pumping the tire first.
I've rendered scenes that used more than 60gb of texture memory on a machine with 16gb ram and 8gb of vram (btw that should answer your question Snowsexxx32 ).
Yes, more Ram will make your scenes load faster. Yes, a better CPU will make working in the viewport much more fluid. Yes a better GPU will speed up your render time, and yes, all of that will help reducing the probability of crashes, but if you don't understand why things are happening, you will ultimately end up buying new hardware every year just to keep up with a software that will in the end always crash at some point and there will always be some scenes that render slow as fuck.
Heck I have a 5950X, 64gb of Ram and two 3090's and still have scenes that take more than 4 hours to render if I just hit the render button without thinking about it.

Daz is an unoptimized piece of... software with unoptimized assets provided by lot's of people who have no idea how to even write optimization, just look at some hair assets, 8k textures and twentytwelve channels full of them, that's the biggest bullshit I've ever seen, but people are like "oh that's high quality stuff" - no it's not, but eh, it's shiny, so people grab it...

You should also probably specify that a scene with 9 figures (which I'm assuming were likely G3, or heavily lowered G8 characters) + environment on a 1060/70 with 8/16 GB of ram most likely chugged its way to completion. Probably a few hours, at best. So, yeah, you can render just fine on a lower-end system. Like yourself or sn00p(sp?), but any decently complex scene will most likely handicap your PC for a while. Depending on specs, of course.

Optimization is key, I used g2, g3 and g8 and it did not chug it's way to completition, actually it did the job in 20 minutes.
What's the biggest difference between g3 and g8? Shaders. Why is g3 rendering faster than a g8? Also shaders. Why does that matter? If you know what shaders do, if you have even the slightest idea about how they work, you'll understand what's causing slow renders, you can make any g3 look as good as a g8 and you can make any g8 render ans fast as any g3.
If you look at the render below, there's two g8s and a genesis (1), can you tell which one is which? A small hint: one of them is completely unchanged.

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[anne O'nymous]

Daz is an unoptimized piece of... software with unoptimized assets provided by lot's of people who have no idea how to even write optimization, just look at some hair assets, 8k textures and twentytwelve channels full of them, that's the biggest bullshit I've ever seen, but people are like "oh that's high quality stuff" - no it's not, but eh, it's shiny, so people grab it...

Do you really think that he could have understood that when he wrote his rant ?

Not sure how it felt from a reader point of view, but personally my intent was to defuse the "this is shit" part. It's only then that one can talk about optimizing the mess that a big scene can be (because you'll have everything and nothing if each asset come from a different artist) will be heard with another though that "yeah, it's what I said, it's a big piece of shit".

If you look at the render below, there's two g8s and a genesis (1), can you tell which one is which?

I can be wrong, but the one with the shirt ; and not just because even the 50yo me never whore such oldies

 

[recreation]

Do you really think that he could have understood that when he wrote his rant ?

Not sure how it felt from a reader point of view, but personally my intent was to defuse the "this is shit" part. It's only then that one can talk about optimizing the mess that a big scene can be (because you'll have everything and nothing if each asset come from a different artist) will be heard with another though that "yeah, it's what I said, it's a big piece of shit".

My first post wasn't really directed at you specifically, it was more a general rant about wrong information and non-helpful tips being thrown in this thread. As I said, you're right, OP was merely ranting and so did I. The thing is, people buy shittons of new hardware and other stuff before they even take a closer look, and the general assumption of this thread makes it look like thats the right way.

I can be wrong, but the one with the shirt ; and not just because even the 50yo me never whore such oldies

Uhh... they all wear a shirt^^

 

[anne O'nymous]

My first post wasn't really directed at you specifically, it was more a general rant about wrong information and non-helpful tips being thrown in this thread.

I know don't worry.

The thing is, people buy shittons of new hardware and other stuff before they even take a closer look, and the general assumption of this thread makes it look like thats the right way.

You're right, it's not how it should be done. You'll render more complex scenes, you'll render faster, but you'll not have better renders.
But be honest, it's also the easiest way. Put a threadreaper, a 3090 and 60GB RAM together, and you'll not have to learn how Daz works... Something common, alas. And you're right a second time, it's not like this, that it will be less common.

Uhh... they all wear a shirt^^

So, I'm right ? It's the one on the left with a very bad taste.
Polygons count

 

[recreation]

So, I'm right ? It's the one on the left with a very bad taste.

Nope, that's not the gen1, it's a g8, but it's the answer I'd expect from most people with at least some Daz experience^^

 

[Snowsexxx32]

I've rendered scenes that used more than 60gb of texture memory on a machine with 16gb ram and 8gb of vram.
...
Daz is an unoptimized piece of... software with unoptimized assets provided by lot's of people who have no idea how to even write optimization, just look at some hair assets, 8k textures and twentytwelve channels full of them, that's the biggest bullshit I've ever seen, but people are like "oh that's high quality stuff" - no it's not, but eh, it's shiny, so people grab it...

I actually am still suspect, as those are the specs of the rig to my left, and I've suspected that DAZ may pull one of the other "tricks" I've seen from some software, which is to never bother with paging and unloading and reloading the files/pieces themselves instead, which can be better than paging in specific cases.

Buuuuuuut... I didn't bother looking at texture size in my testing 'cause I'm dumb and couldn't give a shit about hd texture. I often use toon textures, while at the same time work with overcomplex hair, the problems I usually run into are due to asset structure vs textures, or lighting as opposed to textures.

Regarding your little game, I'm not sure I see anything done in this scene with any character that couldn't be done with OG genesis, and I'd guess that you'd have grabbed a render with our OG front and center instead of hiding something distinguishing on a character in the background. Mentally, the way I was trying to figure it out was which character technically could also be V5.

 

[recreation]

I actually am still suspect, as those are the specs of the rig to my left, and I've suspected that DAZ may pull one of the other "tricks" I've seen from some software, which is to never bother with paging and unloading and reloading the files/pieces themselves instead, which can be better than paging in specific cases.

That might actually be the case, I'm not a 100% sure myself.

Regarding your little game, I'm not sure I see anything done in this scene with any character that couldn't be done with OG genesis, and I'd guess that you'd have grabbed a render with our OG front and center instead of hiding something distinguishing on a character in the background. Mentally, the way I was trying to figure it out was which character technically could also be V5.

That's the thing, you can basically do anything you can do with g3 or g8 with V5/genesis, it even has some advantages like an working ik for animations and gender swap. There are obvious differences, like the bone structure and you might have trouble with some newer clothing and hair assets that are made for g3/g8, but in a render you won't see any difference once you add an iray shader.
It's the character on the right btw, it's David 5 with PBR shader and original textures (which still look good).

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]