VN Ren'Py Jezebel [Ep.1 v1.03] [Mr. Pengo]

[dragoonknight1221999]

I feel like my main issue with Jasen was you could decide to give into all of the villagers demands and he is totally thrown off as you go beyond the minimum he gave, but then if you say you won't give into one of his personal demands it forces you to not give into any demand anymore. Feels like a missed opportunity to be like "I'll give into all of the villagers demands but not your personal one and try to flip the situation on him." Seemed like it could have been interesting.
Though I also have to acknowledge that at the end of the day, this is a game and the more branching choices present, the quicker things can get out of hand with coding and writing, so not every possibility fans come up with for how things could have gone can be included.

 

[Mr. Pengo]

I feel like my main issue with Jasen was you could decide to give into all of the villagers demands and he is totally thrown off as you go beyond the minimum he gave, but then if you say you won't give into one of his personal demands it forces you to not give into any demand anymore. Feels like a missed opportunity to be like "I'll give into all of the villagers demands but not your personal one and try to flip the situation on him." Seemed like it could have been interesting.
Though I also have to acknowledge that at the end of the day, this is a game and the more branching choices present, the quicker things can get out of hand with coding and writing, so not every possibility fans come up with for how things could have gone can be included.

I feel you. Like I said, if I could do it all over, I'd probably arrange it so that you could strongarm him in negotiations and force him to walk away with nothing. I don't really believe in changing the existing material since people have already played it, but perhaps I could make an exception in a future release if people really want it.

Spoiler: Light Episode Two Spoilers

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EDIT -

Upon further reflection, I really do think that my shortcoming was in failing to provide the adequate options for a power fantasy in this route. On its head I really don't think there's anything particularly unrealistic about Jasen and his following, or the actions he takes, at all. If anything, he's the opposite of a deus ex machina; he's a curveball who complicates the village story when it would have otherwise been much more straightforward for Duvessa. The problem isn't with him, but Duvessa's inability to truly one-up him. So, yeah, perhaps I'll amend this mistake and use it as learned experience going foward; ideally I'd like every major situation Duvessa finds herself in to be one where she can either suceed, fail, or something in between.

 

[Invictus7]

I always mean the books I never even saw a second of the show Euron and I'm told that's a good thing.

Thank god, Show Euron had one of the best introductions to the entire show and then it got completely butchered instantly after LMAO

 

[Buletti]

Bad News: Slight delay extension is a go
5 hours ago

Just writing this to let people know that I've got all but no choice but to delay the release another three days, to October 15th. I really underestimated the workload required, and there have been some last minute problems with the art that I've noticed, and that need to be rectified. I've been working basically nonstop for the past few days, and it's just become apparent that it's not gonna be possible to achieve it in time. I'll definitely use this as a learning experience going forward and never again announce a release date until the update is way closer to being finished.

Picture is a relevant bad ending from a choose your own adventure book I read as a kid. I think about it every time I fear that I can't finish something in time. You might say it haunts me.

Really sorry about this, and thanks so much for all your support.

 

[Buletti]

Upon further reflection, I really do think that my shortcoming was in failing to provide the adequate options for a power fantasy in this route.

I don't know if that is the main reason.

A lot of people play a FMC VN to follow a lesbian path.

If he had been a sleazy Woman of course my sub Duvessa had given in to her.

But an asshole Guy goes to the ignore pile asap.

This is not to say your story is not good or you should change anything about the characters.

 

[AMR39]

I feel you. Like I said, if I could do it all over, I'd probably arrange it so that you could strongarm him in negotiations and force him to walk away with nothing. I don't really believe in changing the existing material since people have already played it, but perhaps I could make an exception in a future release if people really want it.

Spoiler: Light Episode Two Spoilers

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EDIT -

Upon further reflection, I really do think that my shortcoming was in failing to provide the adequate options for a power fantasy in this route. On its head I really don't think there's anything particularly unrealistic about Jasen and his following, or the actions he takes, at all. If anything, he's the opposite of a deus ex machina; he's a curveball who complicates the village story when it would have otherwise been much more straightforward for Duvessa. The problem isn't with him, but Duvessa's inability to truly one-up him. So, yeah, perhaps I'll amend this mistake and use it as learned experience going foward; ideally I'd like every major situation Duvessa finds herself in to be one where she can either suceed, fail, or something in between.

I feel you. Like I said, if I could do it all over, I'd probably arrange it so that you could strongarm him in negotiations and force him to walk away with nothing. I don't really believe in changing the existing material since people have already played it, but perhaps I could make an exception in a future release if people really want it.

Spoiler: Light Episode Two Spoilers

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

EDIT -

Upon further reflection, I really do think that my shortcoming was in failing to provide the adequate options for a power fantasy in this route. On its head I really don't think there's anything particularly unrealistic about Jasen and his following, or the actions he takes, at all. If anything, he's the opposite of a deus ex machina; he's a curveball who complicates the village story when it would have otherwise been much more straightforward for Duvessa. The problem isn't with him, but Duvessa's inability to truly one-up him. So, yeah, perhaps I'll amend this mistake and use it as learned experience going foward; ideally I'd like every major situation Duvessa finds herself in to be one where she can either suceed, fail, or something in between.

Personally, I think Jasen is an excellent character. His presence prevents Duvessa from using her authority and doing whatever she wants with the townspeople. Any mistake on her part can be used against her by Jasen to stir up discontent in the town in his favor. In my opinion, it's completely realistic that Duvessa sees him as a potential threat and doesn't want to complicate the situation. It would be interesting if in the future you could extort him and turn him into one of Duvessa's servants. He may be a pain in the ass, but one who can be useful to her. (also his personality could create fun interactions)

 

[GreenDark]

Any mistake on her part can be used against her by Jasen to stir up discontent in the town in his favor. In my opinion, it's completely realistic that Duvessa sees him as a potential threat and doesn't want to complicate the situation.

We're not given enough to justify him having this power over Duvessa. We're just told he does. Even during the scenes where Duvessa is observing him in action, she notes that the actual inhabitants of Griffin's beak don't have the same enthusiasm as Jasen's minions. That's further solidified when she speaks with Dariusz, the actual representative of the people, and he clearly disapproves of Jasen's ideas. Jasen isn't doing enough of a good job at "stirring up discontent" when what we know is that they were already unhappy which doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow Jasen.
None of the people Duvessa speaks with in Griffin's Beak are hostile toward her or on Jasen's side. Not Dariusz. Not Erika. Not the kids she tells a story to. Not the nun in the Chapel.
The only point of reference for the actual plight of the people we have is Dariusz.

We needed more of a clear understanding of a few things before it's believable that Duvessa would be forced to negotiate with Jasen:
-Dariusz doesn't represent that many people in Griffin's Beak.
-Jasen has enough of Griffin's Beak siding with his more extreme plans.
-Duvessa has a reason to care. This is particularly important because the nuclear option remains on the table. Why bother with Jasen if Griffin's Beak will burn anyway? There needs to be something other than "all eyes are on Devereux"
We need to be actually made to believe in these things. Not just being directly told by narration or dialogue but having them integrated with the world and surrounding events as foundation.

I'm just dreaming of a different story at this point. But imagine. It could have been so interesting to have Duvessa face the people directly instead of dealing with the circus of caricatures led by Jasen. Duvessa being faced with their perspectives could lead to more of her endlessly entertaining inner thoughts. Instead of Clownlord, we could have more named characters representing the Beak and, much like Erika, they could have something that Duvessa finds entertaining or alluring enough to make her consider their POV.

 

[Mr. Pengo]

We're not given enough to justify him having this power over Duvessa. We're just told he does. Even during the scenes where Duvessa is observing him in action, she notes that the actual inhabitants of Griffin's beak don't have the same enthusiasm as Jasen's minions. That's further solidified when she speaks with Dariusz, the actual representative of the people, and he clearly disapproves of Jasen's ideas. Jasen isn't doing enough of a good job at "stirring up discontent" when what we know is that they were already unhappy which doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow Jasen.
None of the people Duvessa speaks with in Griffin's Beak are hostile toward her or on Jasen's side. Not Dariusz. Not Erika. Not the kids she tells a story to. Not the nun in the Chapel.
The only point of reference for the actual plight of the people we have is Dariusz.

We needed more of a clear understanding of a few things before it's believable that Duvessa would be forced to negotiate with Jasen:
-Dariusz doesn't represent that many people in Griffin's Beak.
-Jasen has enough of Griffin's Beak siding with his more extreme plans.
-Duvessa has a reason to care. This is particularly important because the nuclear option remains on the table. Why bother with Jasen if Griffin's Beak will burn anyway? There needs to be something other than "all eyes are on Devereux"
We need to be actually made to believe in these things. Not just being directly told by narration or dialogue but having them integrated with the world and surrounding events as foundation.

I'm just dreaming of a different story at this point. But imagine. It could have been so interesting to have Duvessa face the people directly instead of dealing with the circus of caricatures led by Jasen. Duvessa being faced with their perspectives could lead to more of her endlessly entertaining inner thoughts. Instead of Clownlord, we could have more named characters representing the Beak and, much like Erika, they could have something that Duvessa finds entertaining or alluring enough to make her consider their POV.

I definitely meant for Dariusz to be one of the brighter and more conscientious members of the town, rather than a broad representative of all their wants and inclinations. They had all agreed on their demands, but many of them would have been allured to Jasen's means to those ends. You're right in that it would have been interesting for Duvessa to meet some of people who were suckered in by him, but the strict time limit she was on kinda meant that such an idea never came to me when I was writing.

Also I dunno if you can call his followers caricatures when we never really meet any of them at any length For what it's worth, the protagonist of the second bonus scene is one of his acolytes and I'm quite proud of that one.

 

[Invictus7]

View attachment 5332163

Bad News: Slight delay extension is a go
5 hours ago

Just writing this to let people know that I've got all but no choice but to delay the release another three days, to October 15th. I really underestimated the workload required, and there have been some last minute problems with the art that I've noticed, and that need to be rectified. I've been working basically nonstop for the past few days, and it's just become apparent that it's not gonna be possible to achieve it in time. I'll definitely use this as a learning experience going forward and never again announce a release date until the update is way closer to being finished.

Picture is a relevant bad ending from a choose your own adventure book I read as a kid. I think about it every time I fear that I can't finish something in time. You might say it haunts me.

Really sorry about this, and thanks so much for all your support.

Unfortunate but life happens, again a small miscalculation on your part doesnt spell the end of the world. I'll definitely still be there to ply on day 1 regardless lol

 

[AMR39]

We're not given enough to justify him having this power over Duvessa. We're just told he does. Even during the scenes where Duvessa is observing him in action, she notes that the actual inhabitants of Griffin's beak don't have the same enthusiasm as Jasen's minions. That's further solidified when she speaks with Dariusz, the actual representative of the people, and he clearly disapproves of Jasen's ideas. Jasen isn't doing enough of a good job at "stirring up discontent" when what we know is that they were already unhappy which doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow Jasen.
None of the people Duvessa speaks with in Griffin's Beak are hostile toward her or on Jasen's side. Not Dariusz. Not Erika. Not the kids she tells a story to. Not the nun in the Chapel.
The only point of reference for the actual plight of the people we have is Dariusz.

We needed more of a clear understanding of a few things before it's believable that Duvessa would be forced to negotiate with Jasen:
-Dariusz doesn't represent that many people in Griffin's Beak.
-Jasen has enough of Griffin's Beak siding with his more extreme plans.
-Duvessa has a reason to care. This is particularly important because the nuclear option remains on the table. Why bother with Jasen if Griffin's Beak will burn anyway? There needs to be something other than "all eyes are on Devereux"
We need to be actually made to believe in these things. Not just being directly told by narration or dialogue but having them integrated with the world and surrounding events as foundation.

I'm just dreaming of a different story at this point. But imagine. It could have been so interesting to have Duvessa face the people directly instead of dealing with the circus of caricatures led by Jasen. Duvessa being faced with their perspectives could lead to more of her endlessly entertaining inner thoughts. Instead of Clownlord, we could have more named characters representing the Beak and, much like Erika, they could have something that Duvessa finds entertaining or alluring enough to make her consider their POV.

I don't think Jasen has power over Duvessa, what happens is that the situation she finds herself in makes it difficult to deal with him.

Duvessa needed to solve this problem as soon as possible due to the approaching Trial, in addition to having other major problems that need solving in her territory. Every second she has to invest in dealing with this charismatic asshole she could have used on something more urgent. In my opinion, Duvessa had two options: Resort to violence and accept the consequences that killing Jasen and his followers could bring, or give Jasen the minimum so that he stops being a nuisance, while gaining the favor of the town as much as possible. (this is what i did on my playthrough)

But I do agree with you that if Duvessa had the option to interact more with the village, a route could have been created where you get the villagers on your side and expel Jasen without harming the village.

 

[GreenDark]

Duvessa needed to solve this problem as soon as possible due to the approaching Trial, in addition to having other major problems that need solving in her territory. Every second she has to invest in dealing with this charismatic asshole she could have used on something more urgent. In my opinion, Duvessa had two options: Resort to violence and accept the consequences that killing Jasen and his followers could bring, or give Jasen the minimum so that he stops being a nuisance, while gaining the favor of the town as much as possible. (this is what i did on my playthrough)

This is only true after you've accepted that Jasen is capable of having so much influence that he becomes a problem for Duvessa to deal with. I haven't accepted that. The world, the characters and the situation as presented don't permit it.

I don't believe that a group of malcontent rebellious people will follow such an obviously selfish and careless guy who's also a bad liar and an incompetent leader around the world, performing for him and having him spread their word. These people would have caught on to his BS a long time ago. Please don't give me the Trump excuse. If there is a reason in the fiction for Jasen's utterly unbelievable position, I'd love to know it.
It's certainly not impossible and some of the pieces are already in place. Recent changes in the socioeconomics of the world, like the rise of the merchant class, could help make a peasant movement more believable. It's one of the reasons Dariusz provides. But this movement would need to be led by someone with some semblance of ability to be at the center of it. Jasen is a complete joke. A caricature that makes you question what the fuck is happening in the world in a story that otherwise provides all you need to believe in it.

It might be easy to think I hate Jezebel if all you see is my criticism of Jasen. I seem to find it easier to talk about this one big problem than to praise the many many qualities of this VN. Sorry about that.
A few days ago I was thinking of another aspect of Duvessa's character that I find endearing, a blind spot in her thinking when most of the time she's highly self-aware, and that could play a role in the story in the future. I considered printing out a map of Rosegate to better keep track of locations and families whenever they're mentioned, not because it's necessary but I just want to. Entirely positive things unaffected by Jasen's stench.

 

[mr_bad_boy]

when/where does the 3rd picture (foot on a stool) appear in the story?

 

[Mr. Pengo]

when/where does the 3rd picture (foot on a stool) appear in the story?

Spoiler

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[Invictus7]

I fear Mr. Pengo has slightly overestimated his production speed and underestimated the amount of work that must be put in if the last update on Patreon is anything to go by lol well at the very least it gives me time to create a better route before the new update which is presumably still going to be within the week or so
in anycase as he's said a valuable learning experience haha

 

[Mr. Pengo]

I fear Mr. Pengo has slightly overestimated his production speed and underestimated the amount of work that must be put in if the last update on Patreon is anything to go by lol well at the very least it gives me time to create a better route before the new update which is presumably still going to be within the week or so
in anycase as he's said a valuable learning experience haha

Indeed I thought I'd be able to grind it out on three seperate days and eventually I just realized setting a concrete date was unwise. But it will be out very soon!

 

[Mr. Pengo]

Just letting everybody know that Ep. 2 Part One is live on Patreon/SubscribeStar right now! It'll be on here shortly after the general release in two weeks. Sorry for the wait

 

[Eliza12]

Tbh I like Jasen, I hated him at the start, but he grows on me. The share audacity of that guy despite being a lowly peasant is fun and his scene at the trail is one of my favorite scenes in VNs generally, makes all the trouble worth it.

 

[dragoonknight1221999]

Just letting everybody know that Ep. 2 Part One is live on Patreon/SubscribeStar right now! It'll be on here shortly after the general release in two weeks. Sorry for the wait

Update soon, right since it's been 2 weeks now. Not trying to sound impatient, since I understand the reasons behind letting people financially supporting getting access first, just wondering cause been excited to check out the new update and am too poor to support financially myself.

 

[AMR39]

Update soon, right since it's been 2 weeks now. Not trying to sound impatient, since I understand the reasons behind letting people financially supporting getting access first, just wondering cause been excited to check out the new update and am too poor to support financially myself.

"It'll be on here shortly after the general release"

Exactly 2 weeks have passed, surely in a couple of days it will be available

 

[Mr. Pengo]

Update soon, right since it's been 2 weeks now. Not trying to sound impatient, since I understand the reasons behind letting people financially supporting getting access first, just wondering cause been excited to check out the new update and am too poor to support financially myself.

"It'll be on here shortly after the general release"

Exactly 2 weeks have passed, surely in a couple of days it will be available

Yeah, I'm about to drop version 1.02 of the release for Patrons and then I'll put it on here let's say...on Sunday. I still want people who paid a few dollars to feel like they have *some* exclusivity lmao