Just Me Thinking Aloud.

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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Uh I have a real job and pay my own bills. So if they have a shitty job? Get a better one. Student Loans? Uh US Army paid for my college and I didn't have to pay a dime for it. Maybe don't spend so much to get a degree.

Maybe someday but I sure as hell know if I did it would be because I wanted to not because I NEEDED to. I also wouldn't spend all my free time to make it. See my earlier post about living my life for me rather than make a bunch of people happy cause I made a fap game.
The thing is creators of these games, they don't live their lives to make you nut and be happy. And just because you can't relate to other peoples life situations doesn't mean they don't exist. The tax payers paid for your college education, don't fool yourself -)
 

Cndyrvr4lf

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Jun 16, 2017
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The thing is creators of these games, they don't live their lives to make you nut and be happy. And just because you can't relate to other peoples life situations doesn't mean they don't exist. The tax payers paid for your college education, don't fool yourself -)
Well then technically I guess I did pay for part of my education then because I pay taxes but I digress. However, I didn't wrack up hundreds of thousands of $'s in debt for an education that I may never use was my point. There are a ton of extra options that dont result in mountains of student loan debt (community/state colleges, trade Schools, etc. etc.). It's not about relating, I could name a ton of job's that are short handed that pay great and have great benefits that nobody applies for because it's real work. I don't need to relate to someone to know that their situation sucks but if they don't try to fix it then their screwed anyway. Trying to rely on making a porn game as a life solution sounds like a pretty unrealistic way of living.
 

Domiek

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because the want money for that sweet new gaming rig. after they get it, bam, awol at v0.3. excuses vary from health problems to death in the family, but it never changes the outcome. just buys them a couple of more months of revenue without doing shit.

I don't really even click on anything under v0.6 anymore because of that. which otoh means I rarely see new games because they never make it that far. so it's mainly waiting for those handful of proven delivers.
Sorry but this misconception is all too common and almost entirely wrong. Maybe this was a thing 2+ years ago, but with so many DAZ 0.1 games being released, new games aren't getting much money unless they're exceptional or the Dev is already well known.

Hell, my first 5 months I probably made around $200 total. If getting a new gaming rig was the goal, I would have picked up a paper route or flipped burgers part-time and bought the damn thing in a month.

The real answer to OP's question is simply finances and interest. 99% of devs probably played a porn game and thought "That looks easy and fun" , so they download Daz Studio and play around. It's a bit tougher than first imagined but can't be that bad. I'll open up a Patreon account to and make some big bucks while doing something so fun! 3 months in, they realize it's a lot more work than they first imagined and they're actually making 50 cents an hour when factoring in the time spent to Patreon income. Then they realize they have at least another 1-2 years of work left for this project, with the likely hood of never breaking more than $100 a month. They say "Fuck this" and quit. No malice required.
 

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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Well then technically I guess I did pay for part of my education then because I pay taxes but I digress. However, I didn't wrack up hundreds of thousands of $'s in debt for an education that I may never use was my point. There are a ton of extra options that dont result in mountains of student loan debt (community/state colleges, trade Schools, etc. etc.). It's not about relating, I could name a ton of job's that are short handed that pay great and have great benefits that nobody applies for because it's real work. I don't need to relate to someone to know that their situation sucks but if they don't try to fix it then their screwed anyway. Trying to rely on making a porn game as a life solution sounds like a pretty unrealistic way of living.
Using their hobby skills to add to their income is not a "life solution", it can be a bandage though. Like if you study and need loans to keep afloat. Make use of your skills to Monetize your hobby so you require less student loans until you can graduate and get a good job. Or if you laid off and between jobs, it can help you afloat while you get a new one. With those world wide pandemic going on, there will be millions of people losing their jobs and there wont be a "just get a better job, or even get any job easy" after this.
 

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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Sorry but this misconception is all too common and almost entirely wrong. Maybe this was a thing 2+ years ago, but with so many DAZ 0.1 games being released, new games aren't getting much money unless they're exceptional or the Dev is already well known.

Hell, my first 5 months I probably made around $200 total. If getting a new gaming rig was the goal, I would have picked up a paper route or flipped burgers part-time and bought the damn thing in a month.

The real answer to OP's question is simply finances and interest. 99% of devs probably played a porn game and thought "That looks easy and fun" , so they download Daz Studio and play around. It's a bit tougher than first imagined but can't be that bad. I'll open up a Patreon account to and make some big bucks while doing something so fun! 3 months in, they realize it's a lot more work than they first imagined and they're actually making 50 cents an hour when factoring in the time spent to Patreon income. Then they realize they have at least another 1-2 years of work left for this project, with the likely hood of never breaking more than $100 a month. They say "Fuck this" and quit. No malice required.
All the while people shouting at you for "milking it" unless you pump out a release every month right? :p
 

Cndyrvr4lf

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Jun 16, 2017
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Or if you laid off and between jobs, it can help you afloat while you get a new one.
Funny I have worked since I was in my teens. Always had a job, longest break was a week or two at most. Why? Because I was willing to do whatever it took to put bread on the table. When your broke and your stomach is growling is not the time to be picky about work. Had a full time job when I was going to college. Did online and night courses to earn my degree, some of that while deployed in war zones. Brotha where there's a will there's a way, just got to go do it. As far as the pandemic goes that's been here in the states for what? A few months at most. There are companies still hiring, still work to get done. I go to work every day, were still short people cause people would rather sit at home and let welfare pay their bills. Houses still getting built, roads still getting fixed, trucks still driving, grocery stores still open. Oh no this great killer disease is going to kill us all, right? There are 7.? something billion people on this planet. Were overpopulated anyway. More people die from the normal flu every year for me to lose my mind stressing about some "pandemic".
 
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Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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Funny I have worked since I was in my teens. Always had a job, longest break was a week or two at most. Why? Because I was willing to do whatever it took to put bread on the table. When your broke and your stomach is growling is not the time to be picky about work. Had a full time job when I was going to college. Did online and night courses to earn my degree, some of that while deployed in war zones. Brotha where there's a will there's a way, just got to go do it. As far as the pandemic goes that's been here in the states for what? A few months at most. There are companies still hiring, still work to get done. I go to work every day, were still short people cause people would rather sit at home and let welfare pay their bills. Houses still getting built, roads still getting fixed, trucks still driving, grocery stores still open. Oh no this great killer disease is going to kill us all, right? There are 7.? something billion people on this planet. Were overpopulated anyway. More people die from the normal flu every year for me to lose my mind stressing about some "pandemic".
No, I didn't say his pandemic is going to kill us all. It will certainly kill a lot of people. Maybe even friends of yours or family members. But the whole isolation and lockdown is killing the economy and jobs. But hey, you just show how you can't relate again. I hear they need a lot of volunteers in New York, maybe you should set off? The pandemic not being scary at all right? Now its health workers that is the front line in a war zone you can't even see.

But this straying off topic and rather silly.

Just because you want creators to do a on release rather than monthly pledge, doesn't change anything because its up to what the creators wants. Your choice is if you want to fund the creators or not. Simple really.
 

anne O'nymous

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If I had to choose the normal Game release structure would definitely be way better. The problem with the monthly updates is that it doesn't really put any pressure on the Devs to actually finish the Game as fast as possible.
You can say exactly the same for the "release when finish" way. No one expecting the game, there's nothing forcing them to make it advance. Hell, even when they don't have to worry about the money, because they did a kickstarter, and have people expecting the game, because they already "paid for it", many never effectively release something.
At least with a release by update you pay for something that you effectively have.
 

lawfullame

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Aug 6, 2019
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I think majority of people make games for money only, not because out of passion. Before this site started, I remember developers who make games solely for money had little to no chance to exploit people, because back then it's difficult to find a platform to advertise their games, but nowadays because of sites like these they get a big opportunity to exploit people. So I think these sites (this, and other similar sites) can only address this problem by controlling quality of the content they advertise on their websites. I don't blame this or any other site, I am saying shady developers exploit sites like these to earn money, and it should be stopped. good developers should be rewarded, and shady developers should be penalized by not advertising their games on the site. This is no longer just a pirate site.
I see that there is again someone who would like some centralized "quality control" solution. I think the features of this site give everyone enough information to decide what developers they want to support. Everyone can check the update history, read the reviews, see the screenshots.
If you decide to support only someone who has a finished project working on a different project and releasing updates every month, it's okay.
Other players have different preferences, so don't try to impose your ideas on how it should work to others.
I think great freedom for developers and players is one of the main strengths of f95zone.
I'm more a player than a developer, my project is mainly a hobby for me, and as a player I don't need a centralized quality control solution, I have my brain to decide what looks interesting. Sometimes f95zone and community feedback help me decide. There are a lot of games I don't like, but I can freely choose to ignore them.
 

Silver

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I see that there is again someone who would like some centralized "quality control" solution. I think the features of this site give everyone enough information to decide what developers they want to support. Everyone can check the update history, read the reviews, see the screenshots.
If you decide to support only someone who has a finished project working on a different project and releasing updates every month, it's okay.
Other players have different preferences, so don't try to impose your ideas on how it should work to others.
I think great freedom for developers and players is one of the main strengths of f95zone.
I'm more a player than a developer, my project is mainly a hobby for me, and as a player I don't need a centralized quality control solution, I have my brain to decide what looks interesting. Sometimes f95zone and community feedback help me decide. There are a lot of games I don't like, but I can freely choose to ignore them.

Do you know why many governments imposed a curfew/lockdown in many cities, and countries during this pandemic ? why they didn't let people to decide what is best for them. People could do the same thing. read the news, get information from WHO, and make sure they stay inside instead of letting government to control their lives. don't you think it's a better solution? No. it didn't work out. A lot of people in this world are naive, clueless, uninformed and therefore they should be protected from bad people. Many clueless people see a game here, then end up pledging a developer, then developers end up abandoning their game. It can happen again and again, and always clueless people become victims. They lose money, they get mad the site, they get insecure, and they start doubting this industry, and good developers too. You can see in many industries, in many countries there are different ways to protect clueless people. another good example is to Chrome shows a warning message in red when someone visited a suspicious website, and thereby penalizing it. Why chrome shows such a message at first place? why people don't check the link in google, and see if it's suspicious or not? because many people don't, they are clueless. you have to protect such people. We have to protect weakest, and vulnerable people in the society from bad ones, that's when we can have a better society.

This is why a central quality control solution is an ideal solution to weed out bad developers, and reward good developers. I am not saying to penalize developers when they don't release an update in each month, I am saying it's better if they gave a promise, then they should keep it. If they start a game, then they end it somehow instead of giving false promises, and abandon it in the middle of the story, and move to a next game because they find they can make more money from a different game. There should be some kind of a system to make sure developers keep their promises, work on the game, people are not scammed. So everyone knows the system protects them, bad developers know they can no longer exploit innocent people.
 
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Winterfire

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Do you know why many governments imposed a curfew/lockdown in many cities, and countries during this pandemic ? why they didn't let people to decide what is best for them. People could do the same thing. read the news, get information from WHO, and make sure they stay inside instead of letting government to control their lives. don't you think it's a better solution? No. it didn't work out. A lot of people in this world are naive, clueless, uninformed and therefore they should be protected from bad people. Many clueless people see a game here, then end up pledging a developer, then developers end up abandoning their game. It can happen again and again, and always clueless people become victims. They lose money, they get mad the site, they get insecure, and they start doubting this industry, and good developers too. You can see in many industries, in many countries there are different ways to protect clueless people. another good example is to Chrome shows a warning message in red when someone visited a suspicious website, and thereby penalizing it. Why chrome shows such a message at first place? why people don't check the link in google, and see if it's suspicious or not? because many people don't, they are clueless. you have to protect such people. We have to protect weakest, and vulnerable people in the society from bad ones, that's when we can have a better society.

This is why a central quality control solution is an ideal solution to weed out bad developers, and reward good developers. I am not saying to penalize developers when they don't release an update in each month, I am saying it's better if they gave a promise, then they should keep it. If they start a game, then they end it somehow instead of giving false promises, and abandon it in the middle of the story, and move to a next game because they find they can make more money from a different game. There should be some kind of a system to make sure developers keep their promises, work on the game, people are not scammed. So everyone knows the system protects them, bad developers know they can no longer exploit innocent people.
I always do my part by letting everyone know how trash I am, so everyone knows what they are getting into, I am doing my part!
So now praise me by head patting me uwu
 

Joshua Tree

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Jul 10, 2017
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Do you know why many governments imposed a curfew/lockdown in many cities, and countries during this pandemic ? why they didn't let people to decide what is best for them. People could do the same thing. read the news, get information from WHO, and make sure they stay inside instead of letting government to control their lives. don't you think it's a better solution? No. it didn't work out. A lot of people in this world are naive, clueless, uninformed and therefore they should be protected from bad people. Many clueless people see a game here, then end up pledging a developer, then developers end up abandoning their game. It can happen again and again, and always clueless people become victims. They lose money, they get mad the site, they get insecure, and they start doubting this industry, and good developers too. You can see in many industries, in many countries there are different ways to protect clueless people. another good example is to Chrome shows a warning message in red when someone visited a suspicious website, and thereby penalizing it. Why chrome shows such a message at first place? why people don't check the link in google, and see if it's suspicious or not? because many people don't, they are clueless. you have to protect such people. We have to protect weakest, and vulnerable people in the society from bad ones, that's when we can have a better society.

This is why a central quality control solution is an ideal solution to weed out bad developers, and reward good developers. I am not saying to penalize developers when they don't release an update in each month, I am saying it's better if they gave a promise, then they should keep it. If they start a game, then they end it somehow instead of giving false promises, and abandon it in the middle of the story, and move to a next game because they find they can make more money from a different game. There should be some kind of a system to make sure developers keep their promises, work on the game, people are not scammed. So everyone knows the system protects them, bad developers know they can no longer exploit innocent people.
Sigh, so wrong on so many levels.

You going to reward all these good devs with pledge to all of them? Stop everyone from pirate their games so they get what they deserve? What rewards do you speak of? Even many of these creators have it as a hobby, they doesn't necessary want to work for a nickle a hour so you get something to fap too. Sometimes a project collapse, creator lose motivation in it, and start something else. Real life situation changes and so on. In these days, heck, could even end up dying from the virus. The whole idea with Patreon lies in the name itself, you support content creators you like. If their content change you stop support them, it's rather easy concept that.

Do you think it would be a good idea for your gov to have a oversight committee looking into everything you do, to make sure you only do good as well?

Also, compare creation of adult games to a world wide pandemic outbreak that kill thousands of people every day, really? Here is a hint: You don't risk end up dying playing a bad adult game, or support a crappy creator.

Chrome throwing warnings at you is at best the same as "danger" road signs. You tend to follow them too.
 

lawfullame

Active Member
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Aug 6, 2019
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Do you know why many governments imposed a curfew/lockdown in many cities, and countries during this pandemic ? why they didn't let people to decide what is best for them. People could do the same thing. read the news, get information from WHO, and make sure they stay inside instead of letting government to control their lives. don't you think it's a better solution? No. it didn't work out. A lot of people in this world are naive, clueless, uninformed and therefore they should be protected from bad people. Many clueless people see a game here, then end up pledging a developer, then developers end up abandoning their game. It can happen again and again, and always clueless people become victims. They lose money, they get mad the site, they get insecure, and they start doubting this industry, and good developers too. You can see in many industries, in many countries there are different ways to protect clueless people. another good example is to Chrome shows a warning message in red when someone visited a suspicious website, and thereby penalizing it. Why chrome shows such a message at first place? why people don't check the link in google, and see if it's suspicious or not? because many people don't, they are clueless. you have to protect such people. We have to protect weakest, and vulnerable people in the society from bad ones, that's when we can have a better society.

This is why a central quality control solution is an ideal solution to weed out bad developers, and reward good developers. I am not saying to penalize developers when they don't release an update in each month, I am saying it's better if they gave a promise, then they should keep it. If they start a game, then they end it somehow instead of giving false promises, and abandon it in the middle of the story, and move to a next game because they find they can make more money from a different game. There should be some kind of a system to make sure developers keep their promises, work on the game, people are not scammed. So everyone knows the system protects them, bad developers know they can no longer exploit innocent people.
Comparing a global pandemic that threatens milions of lives with the risk of investing a few dollars in a bad project is a bit sick.
You may wish to have a central quality control solution in place, but I do not think it will ever be implemented.
Restricting what games will be on f95zone would do more bad than good.

Maybe some warning that the developer has abandoned projects could work. But what then prevents him from making a new Patreon profile?

Almost all attempts to build a better society have resulted in a disaster and in the case of adult games it would be no different, although this attempt would probably not kill people, unlike many others.
 

Sphere42

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Sep 9, 2018
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I think the features of this site give everyone enough information to decide what developers they want to support. Everyone can check the update history, read the reviews, see the screenshots.
I vehemently disagree on that part. This site makes no real distinction between core and peripheral content, sexual orientation vs. individual acts, even existing vs. planned features and content are inconsistent sometimes. Lack of exclusion filters and the split between "tags" and "genres" doesn't help either. On the specific topic of patreon farming alphas and abandoned games I am not aware of any distinction between games with a playable full release plus ongoing development (Minecraft being a prominent non-porn example), true betas (i.e. polish and bugfixing of mostly feature-complete games), crowdsourcing projects (Slave Maker slaves, mods) and the worthless v0.001 alphas which would barely qualify as tech demos and exist only to rip off forgetful people.

Not blaming this site in particular of course, moderating is hard work.
 

woody554

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Jan 20, 2018
1,420
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The problem with the monthly updates is that it doesn't really put any pressure on the Devs to actually finish the Game as fast as possible.
if only games not ending but pushing out infinite updates was our problem...

i have no problem with the endlessly rolling updates. for a lot of usual story settings that kind of a soap opera structure is perfect. there's no reason to ever end a game like summertime saga, just keep adding new stories forever. there's no reason it couldn't go on for 20 years.


Domiek, I don't think anybody (sane) who's seen your game thinks you're scamming people. you have your own pace, and I've never noticed any alarming signs of you stopping working. devs like you are not the problem we're addressing here. I mean you have like 50 updates or something under your belt, right?

we're talking about the 99% who stop working on their game after first few updates YET keep taking the money. you and a handful of other devs have proven themselves time and time again, and we all know who you guys are. even if some frustrated randos complained in your threads about whatever they do. it's the internet, the supply of angry dumbasses in comments is infinite.

the problem is not the size of updates nor the time spent between updates, it's when those two contradict themselves and everybody sees in 5 minutes that the dev is not working on the game anymore. used to deliver a 100 units of content in fixed time, now suddenly delivers only 10 units, even though taking 5x more time. it's clear what's going on there. and even then it's fine, a personal choice of quitting, UNLESS you keep taking the money.
 
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Winterfire

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used to deliver a 100 units of content in fixed time, now suddenly delivers only 10 units, even though taking 5x more time. it's clear what's going on there. and even then it's fine, a personal choice of quitting, UNLESS you keep taking the money.
That is not always a sign of quitting, especially if the game has tons of choices, it gets progressively harder to add (as much) content.

Sometimes the same time used for adding content is dedicated to other tasks (Changes, fixes) or even adding other features... It took me 2 days to overhaul and add new components for the world map in my game, that would have translated in two days worth of content (which is a lot for me since I release every 6-10 days).
 
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lawfullame

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I vehemently disagree on that part. This site makes no real distinction between core and peripheral content, sexual orientation vs. individual acts, even existing vs. planned features and content are inconsistent sometimes. Lack of exclusion filters and the split between "tags" and "genres" doesn't help either. On the specific topic of patreon farming alphas and abandoned games I am not aware of any distinction between games with a playable full release plus ongoing development (Minecraft being a prominent non-porn example), true betas (i.e. polish and bugfixing of mostly feature-complete games), crowdsourcing projects (Slave Maker slaves, mods) and the worthless v0.001 alphas which would barely qualify as tech demos and exist only to rip off forgetful people.

Not blaming this site in particular of course, moderating is hard work.
Ok, f95zone is not perfect, but I still think at the moment there is no better alternative platform to provide information about adult games.
Of course, the system of tags and genres is not perfect and there are some inconsistencies.
I agree that the system could be improved to provide more accurate information, the rules could be clearer, and in fact this is something that is happening gradually.

But I disagree with some restrictive centralized quality control system that decides what games and developers will be on f95zone.

From my point of view, it is desirable for f95zone to include all games that someone wants to place on f95zone, but they should be properly categorized.
 

Sphere42

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Sep 9, 2018
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But I disagree with some restrictive centralized quality control system that decides what games and developers will be on f95zone.

From my point of view, it is desirable for f95zone to include all games that someone wants to place on f95zone, but they should be properly categorized.
Oh I agree there, I just want the option to bleep out the demo trash when it suits me e.g. when I'm in the mood to actually follow a story through or for grindy gameplay loops where the payoff would be missing. For example status prefixes for "Early Access", "Demo", "Continuous Expansion" and so on because those actually support both inclusion and exclusion filters.
 

lawfullame

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Oh I agree there, I just want the option to bleep out the demo trash when it suits me e.g. when I'm in the mood to actually follow a story through or for grindy gameplay loops where the payoff would be missing. For example status prefixes for "Early Access", "Demo", "Continuous Expansion" and so on because those actually support both inclusion and exclusion filters.
Of course, some additional tags for development status would be desirable.
But classification would not be easy. Version 0.1 of a game may be something completely different from version 0.1 of another game.
For example, 0.1.5 of Offcuts contained one complete path and 0.2 in some other games is barely a demo.
 

ProjectPharaoh

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Jan 28, 2019
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Im in the process of making a game. I have made plenty of games using rpg maker, but this will be my first time make a visual novel. If this turns out any good, then the next game i make using renpy, i’ll make the whole entire game and then release it.