Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Draupnir7]

Amusingly relevant since Innoxia wrote her own license for liliths throne, clearly without consulting a lawyer.

Is that even legally enforceable? Sounds to me like ToS pinky-swear no-takesy-backsies shit.

 

[Quintilus]

Is that even legally enforceable? Sounds to me like ToS pinky-swear no-takesy-backsies shit.

Im not sure even GPL license is legally enforceable. I mean, there are no any court cases of it AFAIK.

 

[mrttao]

Im not sure even GPL license is legally enforceable. I mean, there are no any court cases of it AFAIK.

well. technically it is.
for example here is a case of GPL being enforced in 2004

You must be registered to see the links

and there have been cases where stuff came out of it. for example apple webkit browser. apple took popular open source program, modified it, and released the code.

however. google has been quite effective in finding and abusing every loophole possible in GPL in their android platform to create a closed platform from stolen open source

 

[Quintilus]

well. technically it is.
for example here is a case of GPL being enforced in 2004

You must be registered to see the links

and there have been cases where stuff came out of it. for example apple webkit browser. apple took popular open source program, modified it, and released the code.

however. google has been quite effective in finding and abusing every loophole possible in GPL in their android platform to create a closed platform from stolen open source

Free Software Foundation was created in 1985 and, according to that link

This was the first court decision in which the enforceability of the GPL was upheld, so until this moment, no one knew whether the GPL would withstand a court challenge.

which happened in 2004. So its...ehhh...
IMO violation of GNU GPL, at most, would do only publicity damage aka "LOOK LOOK THEY USED GNU GPL CODE WITHOUT RELEASING SOURCES!!!!!!11111 ABSOLUTELY DISGASTING!!!!". Which is still bad, especially if its a big corporation, but not as bad as sues, courts and so on.

 

[Sarkath]

sounds like what he wants is a CC BY-NC-SA license. which he should just use
creative commons licenses:

You must be registered to see the links

this license specifically:

You must be registered to see the links

Creative Commons is not intended for use with source code. The organization behind it even recommends that dedicated software licenses (GPL, MIT, Apache, BSD, etc.) be used for it instead.

When it comes to story content, image assets, and things of that nature, yeah, CC for days. Definitely not for code, though.

 

[sojocal]

Cool, cool....
Now write some rough sketch of a syntax for such case.

i mean i could just show you it running a simple program.
The upper left is the code being run. The bottom left is the result.
the right is the terminal window which has both a view of the node tree, and the raw tokens being sent in. Honestly they should be flipped since the tokens are before parsing and the treenode is after parsing.

Its called MIT license, m8.

No thank you!
MIT is what you put on code you don't care about. I'd want to get modifications of the code back in this case.

Also stops the bloke spitting his dummy out and demanding his contributions removing, as has happened in several modding projects I know of

Does it? I know it chased me away from modding the game. Maybe this was Inno's best option for her goals but it left a sour taste in my mouth.

Honestly, you're hardly reinventing the wheel here. I've done a great deal of research on languages for these sorts of games, and the reality is pretty grim. Most of the ones are either geared more towards dialogue trees rather than freeform writing (such as ink), or they are so married to a particular platform (such as anything in the Twine ecosystem) that they simply aren't feasible. Programming-focused languages like Lua are terrible because writers can't just write; they have to constantly be concerned with encapsulating their story inside of code.

So twine from writers UI standpoint seems good, but doing anything complex seems like a nightmare. I don't know how the Degees of Lewdity project does it.
I looked at Ink, i thought it might fit my needs, but then got stumped when it didn't support my Niche language, and i wasn't bigbrain enough to port the Cpp or Clang versions to my language.
As for your Lua Critism, ya this is kinda what my language was built to avoid. That said, that creates it's own head aches. Despite that If i used a time Machine, and return to when i started my parser, i might suggest just using Lua to myself.

I was also working on something that would attempt to bridge the gap, but wound up getting swamped at my day job and subsequently demotivated. I was able to knock out a fairly robust expression parser that could tie in with a game-defined .NET API via reflection, but actual scripting part is still very much a WIP.

Very interesting and glad to hear.

sojocal's objective is to try and ensure that contributions will remain open and usable to all. The MIT license makes no such stipulations.

Exactly.

sounds like what he wants is a CC BY-NC-SA license. which he should just use
creative commons licenses:

You must be registered to see the links

this license specifically:

You must be registered to see the links

Do i really want this? I need an argument why this is for me.I'm confortable with GPL-2, not so much with this license.

Is that even legally enforceable? Sounds to me like ToS pinky-swear no-takesy-backsies shit.

Im not sure even GPL license is legally enforceable. I mean, there are no any court cases of it AFAIK.

You must be registered to see the links

.
I mean there was this in 2008, where FSF was able to make Cisco payout. That's not exactly proof as it's enforceable as settling could mean anything or be done to avoid legal fees.

 

[sojocal]

Creative Commons is not intended for use with source code. The organization behind it even recommends that dedicated software licenses (GPL, MIT, Apache, BSD, etc.) be used for it instead.

When it comes to story content, image assets, and things of that nature, yeah, CC for days. Definitely not for code, though.

I think the specific license he provided is for source code.... but ya, i wouldn't use CC license for source code. Maybe i can have duel licenses where the data parts of the game is licensed under GNU and CC, allowing for things like legal fanfics?

 

[Sarkath]

So twine from writers UI standpoint seems good, but doing anything complex seems like a nightmare. I don't know how the Degees of Lewdity project does it.

I made the mistake of looking at DoL's code and the whole thing is basically held together with duct tape and prayers.

Based on my own experiments experiments, the more creative you want to get with the game mechanics the more you have to bend your system design to work within Twine's parameters. To be more specific, you need to be very mindful of how it tracks its game state between turns, as well as how it handles saved games. It definitely feels like it's best to write your own framework from scratch if you get to that point, otherwise you'll create a maintenance nightmare for yourself.

but ya, i wouldn't use CC license for source code. Maybe i can have duel licenses where the data parts of the game is licensed under GNU and CC, allowing for things like legal fanfics?

That's what I plan to do if I ever get my project off the ground. Based on the research I've done it seems as though the GPL is fine to use for related data and assets, but I feel that CC offers similar protections for assets and is generally easier to understand.

One thing to note is that if you wish for your game assets to be licensed under CC BY-NC-SA (Non-Commercial ShareAlike) it should be kept separate from your GPL'd engine. The GPL allows code to be used commercially and is incompatible with licenses that explicitly disallow this. If your assets are CC BY-SA (version 4 or higher) I think it'll be okay to keep everything together.

Note that I am not a lawyer, and my knowledge of licenses comes from research and sifting through a lot of very boring reading material.

 

[Quintilus]

No thank you!
MIT is what you put on code you don't care about. I'd want to get modifications of the code back in this case.

Back???
MIT states "code is made by X, hes not responsible if something breaks, dont put it in control of nuclear reactor", not "I dont care what wikk happen with my code".

 

[sojocal]

Back???
MIT states "code is made by X, hes not responsible if something breaks, dont put it in control of nuclear reactor", not "I dont care what wikk happen with my code".

The Licenses gives anyone free licenses to basically do whatever they want with the code. I don't know why you're fighting me on this (and everyone else on everything). Here let me show you.

That entire first paragraph is all about it. Hell a famous example is Intel commandeering some MIT licensed code for their Management Engine. Not a bad thing, but literally an example of some not caring about their code then a company used it(which might be the goal).

 

[sojocal]

That's what I plan to do if I ever get my project off the ground. Based on the research I've done it seems as though the GPL is fine to use for related data and assets, but I feel that CC offers similar protections for assets and is generally easier to understand.

One thing to note is that if you wish for your game assets to be licensed under CC BY-NC-SA (Non-Commercial ShareAlike) it should be kept separate from your GPL'd engine. The GPL allows code to be used commercially and is incompatible with licenses that explicitly disallow this. If your assets are CC BY-SA (version 4 or higher) I think it'll be okay to keep everything together.

Note that I am not a lawyer, and my knowledge of licenses comes from research and sifting through a lot of very boring reading material.

So yes, but there's also duel licensing(which honestly I should ignore and just pick a good license or partition my projects). It's not normally seen with GPL, and given the shit show that was GPL-3, it might not be possible with GPL-3/GPLA. As the creator of the copyrighted work, i can give out different licenses to different people. For example, i might give out to one person, a license to use my software, but to another person who pays me more, the right to use my software commercially.

 

[Quintilus]

The Licenses gives anyone free licenses to basically do whatever they want with the code. I don't know why you're fighting me on this (and everyone else on everything). Here let me show you.
View attachment 2171663
That entire first paragraph is all about it. Hell a famous example is Intel commandeering some MIT licensed code for their Management Engine. Not a bad thing, but literally an example of some not caring about their code then a company used it(which might be the goal).

Currently I fights with analytic 3D geometry, not with anyone in this topic.
Where does it contradicts with "code is made by X, hes not responsible if something breaks, dont put it in control of nuclear reactor"?
And you not explained what " I'd want to get modifications of the code back in this case. " means here. Get modifications back to where? Get modifications from fork into main?!

 

[mrttao]

Free Software Foundation was created in 1985 and, according to that link
which happened in 2004. So its...ehhh...

You are implying that there were multiple lawsuits between 1985 to 2004 which GPL lost, but rather there just were not any lawsuits on it during that time period. Generally speaking, companies actually adhered to the license, as per apple.

Do i really want this? I need an argument why this is for me.I'm confortable with GPL-2, not so much with this license.

if you are comfortable with GPL than this great. use GPL.
I misunderstood the scenario and I thought you were looking for a GPL alternative

 

[anubis1970]

Hello Again Any And All well was unsure who I should really reply to here as many have said things Surrounding this idea so just figured to reply to my own Original messages in hopes that it can still be seen by Others here rather new to commenting here so I hope you all can bare with me and sorry for any Inconveniences

I would just like to Clear one thing up I from what I can grasp a few different people seem to think I want to make some sort of new Generation of LT I am sorry if I was not clear enough but this is the furthest thing I would like to do When I spoke about premise I should have stated clearly I mean the Isekai aspect of the story Which is not I guess even just a LT thing but present in other fictions such as Manga & Anime Bottom line I dont intend for what I'm envisioning to be a "Reskinned" version of anything LT or other wise of course within the confines as no base idea is truly original but assuming I Actually figure out a way to bring it to fruition if that is how it ends up perceived then fine everyone will have a different view but that's certainly Not what I shall intend it to be

The only thing i would want but as far as i can tell seems I would need far more coding know how then I posses but what i want for what I envision is a extremely robust character creator the likes of which I have only seen in LT i have played Coc and TiTS DICK and a few more alike it but in my view none of these have the same Robust character creator LT Has which is simply what i will want to strive for it doesn't even need to be the same system was just Curious if it was goanna be a chore as far as I'm seeing yes yes it shall be So I will probably just make the world I want more in a narrative drive more like just a story so I suppose for the time being I shall stick with writing in the simple use twine program sense that just allows me to do what I think I am good At creatively anyway and write and not have to worry about anything beyond that

Sorry for any hassles or bothers I've caused I hope everyone has a wonderful Evening /Afternoon /Morning or night

Please, for what's left of my sanity's sake, learn to use punctuation.

 

[Draupnir7]

I think we're witnessing the birth of either a competing team or several competing projects to LT.

 

[JXSXNBLXCK]

Does anyone know how to use Lasielle's ability cause I've been playing around with the game mechanics(debug mode) and I've had no luck in using it since activating it.

 

[anubis1970]

Does anyone know how to use Lasielle's ability cause I've been playing around with the game mechanics(debug mode) and I've had no luck in using it since activating it.

Most likely you can't use it. The various Elder Lillin perks were added more so people could transform into other forms than just human. I doubt that Lasielle's power will be coded into the game until sometime in 2135.

 

[Quintilus]

You are implying that there were multiple lawsuits between 1985 to 2004 which GPL lost, but rather there just were not any lawsuits on it during that time period. Generally speaking, companies actually adhered to the license, as per apple.

No, I implied "is that really the only court case?"

 

[mrme]

And you not explained what " I'd want to get modifications of the code back in this case. " means here. Get modifications back to where? Get modifications from fork into main?!

What they mean is 'Copyleft' licensing, like most lefty things, is 'freedom' with strings attached.
Unlike MIT or BSD where you have absolute freedom to use the given software as you wish, including making closed forks, GPL/etc requires that any code built off it is required to also be open source so that modifications downstream can backflow to the main fork.

Does it? I know it chased me away from modding the game. Maybe this was Inno's best option for her goals but it left a sour taste in my mouth.

Yes it does.
By default the author of a contribution maintains Copyright on a submission, the Projects gets to use that under license.
The issue is though is that as the Copyright holder they can revoke that license (though that is one of the 'loop holes' that AGPL plugged - GPL2 does still have this loop hole in theory (there was a big thing a few years ago where several big Linux Kernel contributors threatened to pull their commits because of all the political BS that was infesting the project (they didn't bother though - go figure))).
So what smart community projects do is have a Contributors Agreement to prevent this: usually either its a full on draconian one where the submitter agrees to transfer Copyright and Ownership to the Project; or a mutually fair one where the original Author/Owner maintains their Copyright but agrees to grant the Project an unlimited and perpetual usage license (that way the contributor can use their creation elsewhere/other projects, and the project doesn't risk suddenly having the asset rug pulled out from under them)

 

[Bicocklover5656]

Please, for what's left of my sanity's sake, learn to use punctuation.

I am Sure that I Apologized For this flaw of mine...So I will take this the time to Apologize once more
And add one other Apology and say that I am Sorry but I dont think my brain will suddenly just be able to Catch up and Comprehend to fix my flaws Just for the sake of Your Sanity

Hope you and everyone else has a wonderful day