Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Purple_Heart]

This whole discussion illustrates why game development, especially indie game development, is so hard. It's hard enough to just be a competent programmer or writer or artist or project manager or financial manager in the first place, so trying to be all of those at once is going to be a big struggle.

I don't know about how people see/think game development works but I can say game development is not very hard, developing a game all by yourself is very hard because you are doing everything. Writing code, creating models/sprites, designing ui, designing enemies, implementing gameplay mechanics, creating animations and a lot of other stuff all by yourself.

But to counter this difficulty everything keeps getting easier every day thanks to advancements in technology and tools available for developers, for example trained ai models and convenient to use game engines such as unity and unreal engine.

Take a look at ai models used to draw porn. There is absolutely nothing preventing you or anyone else from using them to create assets for your game. Take a look at unity's latest ai assistant(I forgot its name because it is not out yet, still in closed beta I think) that is integrated into the engine itself. It can not only create assets for your game but also animate them based on your prompts. All you have to do is tell ai what it should do and it does everything for you.

Even if you have no idea what you are doing you can just ask chatgpt(free version) to write codes for your game. It can even teach you basics of programming languages and game engines, you don't need to go to a school or buy online courses for learning programming, those times are gone. It also knows about third party extensions made for those engines. I'm currently using dotween for unity to animate objects in my game and let me tell you something, two months ago I was not even aware of existence of something called "dotween" but now I've learned how to use it and I am using it on my own all thanks to ai. Nowadays I am using it(ai) to learn C# and unity more, rather than searching for solutions online by myself, it almost made google a thing of the past.

So my point is, in short, we are living in a time where game development is easier than ever, there should be less excuses for bad developers, whether they are being bad on purpose or not.

To me liliths throne seems like it already has core gameplay mechanics and characters in place. So, in my eyes most of the work is already done. There is a foundation(whether it is good or bad is another matter) and now all that's left to do is building upon it by adding more content, occasional QoL updates and bugfixes. It really shouldn't be that hard. This is what I think, I am not saying this is what is happening or happened, I didn't even know about this game 2 or 3 weeks ago.

 

[KaiSakurai]

This whole discussion illustrates why game development, especially indie game development, is so hard. It's hard enough to just be a competent programmer or writer or artist or project manager or financial manager in the first place, so trying to be all of those at once is going to be a big struggle.

that may be true, but not entirely applicable here...
- artist: not the case here as the only few images this game has are by others not innoxia.
- financial manager: doing it all alone afaik so no need to pay anyone so only her basic monthly costs. which shouldn't be a problem with minimum of $5k a month income. so not much management needed in that regard.
- project manager: when its only a single person not a team that isnt too hard actually. managing your own workload should be a basic skill of every developer. if you notice that the workload is getting too much then put non-critical things on hold for after the important things are done. from all the comments about her getting sidetracked instead of focussing on the existing roadmap it seems apparent that this is her main problem: she lacks the ability to manage her own workload. and before anyone says "easier said than done. wanna see YOU do better": im a software developer myself. business software. customers arent very patient about bugs or requested features. so i know how important it is to keep your workload in manageable levels and if necessary i push "nice to have" feature requests into a later release.
side content is nice to have but if the main content (basic game mechanics and story) fall behind then you have to adjust your focus. sidequests and rebalancing can be done once the main content is done instead of trying to deal with it at the same time.

 

[KaiSakurai]

I'm currently using dotween for unity to animate objects in my game and let me tell you something, two months ago I was not even aware of existence of something called "dotween" but now I've learned how to use it and I am using it on my own all thanks to ai. Nowadays I am using it to learn C# and unity more, rather than searching for solutions online by myself, it almost made google a thing of the past.

given recent events, if your game isnt too far yet, u should switch from unity to a different engine.
with their current CEO unity cant be trusted anymore.
if you dont know about what occured, there's dozens of videos about it on youtube. u only need to search for "unity" and u already get a dozen videos about how unity destroyed itself.

 

[Purple_Heart]

given recent events, if your game isnt too far yet, u should switch from unity to a different engine.
with their current CEO unity cant be trusted anymore.
if you dont know about what occured, there's dozens of videos about it on youtube. u only need to search for "unity" and u already get a dozen videos about how unity destroyed itself.

If you are talking about unity wanting to charge developers based on installation count, as far as I am aware they reverted their decision but it wouldn't affect me anyway, this is gonna be my first game I doubt I'll sell enough to trigger those kinds of problems

 

[KaiSakurai]

If you are talking about unity wanting to charge developers based on installation count, as far as I am aware they reverted their decision but it wouldn't affect me anyway, this is gonna be my first game I doubt I'll sell enough to trigger those kinds of problems

they reverted it but that this happened at all shows that you cant trust unity anymore. they could come up with more stupid ideas to ruin devlopers (and gamers) at any time. as long as that greedy former EA idiot is the CEO it is suicide to trust that unity wants the best for the developers.

 

[johnysanchez01]

To me liliths throne seems like it already has core gameplay mechanics and characters in place. So, in my eyes most of the work is already done. There is a foundation(whether it is good or bad is another matter) and now all that's left to do is building upon it by adding more content, occasional QoL updates and bugfixes. It really shouldn't be that hard. This is what I think, I am not saying this is what is happening or happened, I didn't even know about this game 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Your points about assets being easier to make aren't wrong, it's just that for LT specifically they don't necessarily apply. LT is fairly unique in the world of h-games and games in general. There aren't too many text-based rpg sandboxes with the level of customization and player choices out there. A sort of relevant comparison would be Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead*, cause even though it technically has graphics the game is mainly based around being a custom character in a world of procedurally generated characters to allow the player to create their own stories. Of course CDDA is a way better game but my point is that games where the goal is to allow for the player to tell stories with custom/procedurally generated characters are difficult undertakings. This is why most h-games rpgs are choose-your-own-adventure stories.
You're using ChatGPT to learn programming which is great but know that even the better programming focused AI models aren't necessarily there yet when it comes to giving accurate, workable code all the time. It's also pretty hit or mix for bugfixing in my experience, but I think there are programming specific AI models coming out to help with that.
The way I see it, this game's main problem isn't the content (or lack thereof), it's the fact that there are too many game systems and mechanics that are irrelevant and unfinished. Trying to build content on this foundation is no doubt going to be challenging cause there are too many moving parts that can break at any time. This is why I think Inno needs to take a good hard look at what mechanics this game really needs, and get rid of everything else.

- project manager: when its only a single person not a team that isnt too hard actually. managing your own workload should be a basic skill of every developer. if you notice that the workload is getting too much then put non-critical things on hold for after the important things are done. from all the comments about her getting sidetracked instead of focussing on the existing roadmap it seems apparent that this is her main problem: she lacks the ability to manage her own workload. and before anyone says "easier said than done. wanna see YOU do better": im a software developer myself. business software. customers arent very patient about bugs or requested features. so i know how important it is to keep your workload in manageable levels and if necessary i push "nice to have" feature requests into a later release.

I have no doubt that you're a way better project manager, but when it comes to creative endeavors like games(especially passion project indie games) the actual project goals are often nebulous and are only really figured out later in development. Inno seems to be an amateur developer who learned programming while developing this game as well, which probably explains why the game does things like updating the status of every single NPC during every single in-game turn/minute(this is insane and probably explains the why this game runs like crap).

Listen, all I'm trying to say here is that I think Inno's lack of output is most likely not the result of intentional grifting but rather from the accumulation of technical debt from the various incomplete/pointless systems in this game which hinder her ability to work on it further. The game is a sandbox but even sandboxes need a good foundation to build content on, and until Inno fixes this foundation it's going to be hard for her to make new content that isn't just inserting someone's custom fursona on some tile somewhere.

*CDDA, while much more complete than LT, actually has numerous development issues which parallel LT, especially concerning the constant addition of half-baked features which don't do much apart from create further technical debt and complexity.

 

[KaiSakurai]

There aren't too many text-based rpg sandboxes with the level of customization and player choices out there. A sort of relevant comparison would be Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead*, cause even though it technically has graphics the game is mainly based around being a custom character in a world of procedurally generated characters to allow the player to create their own stories.

Corruption of Champions I and II

the actual project goals are often nebulous and are only really figured out later in development.

She apparently already has a roadmap. She should stick to it a little more. As other's said: 0.5 was supposed to bring the next lilin encounter while Elis should be done between 0.4 and 0.5. We are at 0.4.9 and Elis only exists as map but has 0 content so far. She strays from her own roadmap too much.

Inno seems to be an amateur developer who learned programming while developing this game as well, which probably explains why the game does things like updating the status of every single NPC during every single in-game turn/minute(this is insane and probably explains the why this game runs like crap).

And why it sometimes just crashes/freezes.

 

[EmDotRand]

Corruption of Champions I and II

No buddy. I've played a decent amount of CoC and a lot of CDDA. When it comes to character customization CoC is a relic compared to the other contenders mentioned.

CoC's customization consists of one piece of armor, one helmet, one set of clothing, a weapon, and a mutation system where you eat random bullshit and hope to RNGesus you don't get fucked. The variety of parts is decent but the fact it's mostly ng means you're likely to create a chimera. The worst of it is negatable by grinding out a perk to avoid loosing your sentience. Unlike LT NPCs actually respond to your appearance outside of sex so that's a bonus. CoC II by what I've played is a bit better with different body slots and dual wielding but still barely at the level of a typical rpg game.

CDDA meanwhile lets you wear multiple layers of clothing on each bodypart. There's an inner, normal, outer, and strapped on layer, each of which can be stacked at the cost of reduced combat efficiency. Some clothes also have attachable pockets and accesories letting you further deck out your look. You can also install cybernetic enhancements and take mutagents although most are mutually exclusive. The main diffence with CDDA's mutations are 1. No genitals without mods and even then they weren't opperable since 0.E's hentai mod, and 2. There's funky hidden stat called instabiity that raises every time you mutate. As it rises so does your chance to get horrific negative mutations ranging from mildly inconvinient to disintergration. Even supposed purifer is a human mutagent meaning this also increases instability. Additionally most mutations are ugly meaning NPCs are more likely to have a fight or flight response to seeing you.

LT meanwhile is kinda decent concerning clothing but nothing too special outside of dye options. However it's absolutly meticulous when it comes to mutatations/transformations. No leaving things to chance: you get to dictate exactly how every bodypart looks, feels, and even tastes. Unfortunatly most encouters completly ignore your appearance to the point you can waltz into the bank dressed in nothing but a coat of jizz and nobody bats an eye. Additionally I wish that race transformations were more genaric compared to the race system. The part flags could be expanded to include more descritions with then culminating into a certiain race. I'm pretty sure there's no difference between a dog arm, griffon arm, lion arm, and bear arm beyond the race description.

Addendum: I've been looking through the source code for CoC I. Besides the fact that reading it doesn't make me want to gut myself like LT's code does, there's also a decent amount of available parts. However, I'd never know from just paying the game because it's locked behind rng.
Addendum 2: Apparently the available clothing for CoC are a piece of armour, a shield, a weapon, and 2 underwear slots.

 

[KaiSakurai]

No buddy. I've played a decent amount of CoC and a lot of CDDA. When it comes to character customization CoC is a relic compared to the other contenders mentioned.

i thought ur "level of customization" was regarding character customization not clothing... depending on how u define "customization" it is either true or false. it may lack clothing but u can customize ur character pretty well.
also u said "player choices" and they definitely got those.

also i googled CDDA and apparently its not even an adult game. its on steam and not blocked in germany so its sfw. thanks, not interested.

 

[EmDotRand]

i thought ur "level of customization" was regarding character customization not clothing... depending on how u define "customization" it is either true or false. it may lack clothing but u can customize ur character pretty well.
also u said "player choices" and they definitely got those.

also i googled CDDA and apparently its not even an adult game. its on steam and not blocked in germany so its sfw. thanks, not interested.

> Includes a game in response.
> Dismisses counter response for reasons not even related to the conversation
> Quotes someone else* and attributes it to opponent.
> Gives zero examples.

And we're done here. Have a good day.
*Edit: Yet another smooth brain moment.

 

[NotAFed2345]

Anybody knows what is currently the best way to gain money?

 

[Sant3224]

Anybody knows what is currently the best way to gain money?

Learn 3 water spells to unlock the skill, then buy any transformative and enchant it up to 100 with cum transformatives (which will be free), save the enchantement so u don't have to click 100 times.

The potions sells up to 3k each

 

[MonWeek]

Anybody knows what is currently the best way to gain money?

What I normally do is go into the darker alleys in Dominion, beat up demons and take their weapons. If you get lucky, you can get rich off of like 2 or 3 fights.

 

[_Metamorphosis_]

Anybody knows what is currently the best way to gain money?

The three main ways:

Way 1: Path of the Cum Bender

First you need to acquire 3 water spells, all fluid related enchantments shall be free, keep spamming milk or cum production

Way 2: The Slime Slave Trade

First you need to get bondage kink (the one where you put bondage in other people) then you need to either find slimes OR turno people into slimes, transform them into mythological things (mainly Centaurs, Alicorns, Gryphons, but especially Dragons) after transforming into one of said beings will make them A LOT more pricy to sell ONCE YOU TURN THEM BACK INTO ORGANICS (just enchant the slime bio-cannister to flesh), increase their obedience and they should roughly be 200k flames (not sure but it SEEMS hermaphroditess do give lots of money)

Way 3: "Got Milk?"

Similiar to the Slime slave trade first step AND the cum bender, get "put others in bondage" kink, get some milk enchantmensts (especially addictive, pyschodelic, and alchoolic) change taste and make them produce and give loads of milk, milk them and sell them in Lilaya's house.

 

[KaiSakurai]

Way 3: "Got Milk?"

Similiar to the Slime slave trade first step AND the cum bender, get "put others in bondage" kink, get some milk enchantmensts (especially addictive, pyschodelic, and alchoolic) change taste and make them produce and give loads of milk, milk them and sell them in Lilaya's house.

if u finish the quest u get from axel in the gambling den after u talk to roxy and raid the rat warrens u can get 4 perfect milk slaves from clair. they give huge amounts of milk of different flavors. if u make the right choices u can get through it with 0 fights. so its possible even if u are weak. just talk to clair in submission after reporting back to axel and clair approaches u with the request to accept the 4 human women that were rescued in the rat warrens. since they were kidnapped and mindbroken she doesnt want them to get sold in the slave market.
its 4 free milk slaves and is super easy. so if u dont have the money for 3 water spells to get the free fluid enchantments, this is a good start for ur milk empire.

 

[KaiSakurai]

> Includes a game in response.
> Dismisses counter response for reasons not even related to the conversation
> Quotes someone else* and attributes it to opponent.
> Gives zero examples.

And we're done here. Have a good day.
*Edit: Yet another smooth brain moment.

1. it was past midnight for me and i didnt notice someone different replied to me. happens. no need to be an 4ss bout it.
2. just because YOUR definition of "customizations" is limited to clothing doesnt invalidate my argument that CoC DOES have a lot of customization as u can change a lot about your character. also YOUR definition may greatly differ from the definition of the person i was originally replying to. so they may disagree with your assessment too.
3. why would i need examples when im talking about CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION? that term always means the customization of the characters appearance, race, background and in some cases skills/traits. if i say u can customize ur character a lot it obviously refers to those categories. someone that actively plays games of this genre should know. so if it's anyone's "smooth brain moment" then congratulations u played urself. very smooth brain there.

 

[qwsaq]

2. just because YOUR definition of "customizations" is limited to clothing doesnt invalidate my argument that CoC DOES have a lot of customization as u can change a lot about your character. also YOUR definition may greatly differ from the definition of the person i was originally replying to. so they may disagree with your assessment too.

You missed his entire point regarding the mutation system, bro.

you eat random bullshit and hope to RNGesus you don't get fucked. The variety of parts is decent but the fact it's mostly ng means you're likely to create a chimera.

 

[tehlemon]

Stopping by just for a laugh. We really are *right on schedule* with this update. What do you guys think, is it coming out before January?

The whole "yearly schedule" thing started as a joke. But that was three or four years ago, and it just keeps happening lol

 

[Draupnir7]

Stopping by just for a laugh. We really are *right on schedule* with this update. What do you guys think, is it coming out before January?

The whole "yearly schedule" thing started as a joke. But that was three or four years ago, and it just keeps happening lol

I am willing to give her the benefit of my doubt and say yes, it will come out before next year. Like, the last week or two of December.

 

[CosmisEntity]

You missed his entire point regarding the mutation system, bro.

The problem is that the predicament he happened to state above is not only contradictory but completely subjective in nature.

He claims that CoC has a lackadaisical customization (mostly from clothing articles, which mind you for the type of game CoC is, is a tertiary matter and not the primary focus of the game, as the game sells itself on its mutations.), as well as an rng based mutation. And a few sentences in he clearly contradicts himself by stating that CDDA also has its own implementation on random mutations. Unless his gripe is the fact you cannot choose which part of the body you mutate, then that is something that is counteractable in LT, given that the slime route gives you this option. The clothing point also does not take into account that cdda is a rpg game, where equipment plays a vital role in protection against zombie bites and etc., for example project zomboid (I strongly recommend this game). From the cursory glance i took of the game, it is a zombie apocalypse themed game, in which case clothing layers is more probably than not influential in how easy it is for you to be infected. Another point is that cdda is not an adult game, its adult theme from what he stated comes from a mod, in which case cdda isn't even the best or a contender when it comes to character customization, as now we can consider the likes of CK3, rimworld, and various other top shelf games with adult implementations through mods.

Now for the part where all of what he stated as negatives is completely subjective in nature. Some people prefer the randomness of mutations, while others prefer a more static system for mutations, and i for one prefer a mix between both worlds, as i appreciate the work that would have to be put to make that possible (which LT does). How hard it is to acquire something may break a game for some, and make a game for others (for example ck3's atrocious rng), which is why i believe what he stated on the randomness of mutations as a subjective matter. Another point is that LT is a text-based game, so if they were to implement your system of extensive layoring, it would prove a cumbersome task to add that to the game besides being used as flavor text, which would be ridiculous, as the removing of those articles of clothing during the more lewd scenes would be preposterous and even humourical. CDDA though does not suffer from this point, as i doubt there are many mentions of the process of removing your clothing in the base game itself.

He seems to be in the wrong place, as what he wants is not a text-based adventure adult game, but an rpg or life simulation game not focused on the adult theme.

[edit: Also given LT's mod support, and open source nature, if someone were actually that perturbed by the matter of a lack of clothing layors, they could mod that feature in just like how the adult theme in cdda was modded in.]