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README List of VaM Creators Who Track their Patreons [Various Creators]

Boss963

Snake
Uploader
Oct 7, 2022
4,331
25,263
This thread have become a heated forum just letting you know guys you need to updated your vam to 1.22.0.6 in case you didn't know about the security update meshedvr have mentioned in the
Whether you update or not, it doesn't matter, the new update fixes a trivial exploit and in order to effectively use it, you have to combine it with others that's why no body bothered implementing/using it, there are more serious ones, vam is largely vulnerable, exploitable, in short, don't run plugins/(assetbundles+dlls) from untrusted sources like Chinese vars ..etc, period.
 
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WetZoner

Active Member
Nov 3, 2019
709
1,430
How many folks have been on these forums long enough to remember the OLD Vam thread? There was a whole fiasco where someone shared some content with a script that when opened, would decimate peoples' hard drives? I remember bamair1984's name coming up as the alleged perpetrator but was never sure if anyone confirmed or denied his involvement... I should find that old thread and brush up on the details when I have time, but I would love some insight from anyone with better memory than me.
 

scoutjoe

Member
May 30, 2020
370
241
Whether you update or not, it doesn't matter, the new update fixes a trivial exploit and in order to effectively use it, you have to combine it with others, still vam is largely vulnerable, exploitable, in short, don't run plugins from untrusted sources like Chinese vars ..etc, period.
Of course I'm just giving a heads up on that update post
 
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Boss963

Snake
Uploader
Oct 7, 2022
4,331
25,263
How incredibly stupid.

If a single virus were tracked back to a creator (which would probably happen within hours of its release) they would likely end up losing most, if not all, of their supporters. I know I would never trust someone who did that ever again. Not to mention Patreon and other services take a pretty dim view of spreading viruses, so they'd probably lose everything from there as well.

If multiple creators started releasing viruses, it could potentially kill VAM entirely because users would lose faith it could be operated safely and it would be hard to find new users if the reputation were that the program was a host for viruses. A few petty creators could potentially kill the livelihoods of all of them in that case.
If I were a creator and wanted to punish for example F95 community, I wouldn't push the var officially on discord or patreon, just create a fake account on F95 and post the fake var there. This has happened before (bamair incident). Or maybe on discord, push different vars to certain individuals that creators suspect them sharing vars on F95. That's why I keep these creators on my watch list, trying to anticipate their next move, they might do something bad/malicious as a revenge. Someone who went down the revenge path cannot be trusted. This is also a message for their patreon, McZippy already brought to the light that some of these creators want to take revenge, be careful and take care, creators who track their patreon might add malware given that vam does not have enough protection and Meshedvr already warned you to take care and not to load plugins from untrusted sources, I am warning you again, vam does not have enough protection and you cannot have proper protection without sacrificing some futures and breaking a long list of plugins, it's not something that can fixed in a day.
 

Velomous

Member
Jan 14, 2024
289
278
Thought I'd point out, the bamair incident, it had a virus that wrecked your filesystem if I understand correctly. That's a highly damaging and immediately noticable effect.

If he had been smarter and more subtle about it, chances are we wouldn't even have found out about it. Chances are pretty good that everyone here has some kind of virus through vam, and they could have gotten it from vamhub as easily as they could have gotten it from here too.

Bamair's intent was to cause direct harm, to send a message. Another person could go the same route with an even more sinister intent and created a more intelligent kind of malware. The kind you don't even know is there, fucking you over in the background.
 
Jul 17, 2019
158
471
Thought I'd point out, the bamair incident, it had a virus that wrecked your filesystem if I understand correctly. That's a highly damaging and immediately noticable effect.

If he had been smarter and more subtle about it, chances are we wouldn't even have found out about it. Chances are pretty good that everyone here has some kind of virus through vam, and they could have gotten it from vamhub as easily as they could have gotten it from here too.

Bamair's intent was to cause direct harm, to send a message. Another person could go the same route with an even more sinister intent and created a more intelligent kind of malware. The kind you don't even know is there, fucking you over in the background.
I don't believe the bamair incident was done by bamair
It was done by someone who edited the var before sharing
They added a script that deleted your addonpackages folder when you opened the scene
A lot of people think it was a crazy 3D modeler that used to come here and rant almost daily about theft and piracy
but there is no proof of what exactly happened so this is all speculation
 

brasileirinho

Active Member
Apr 28, 2021
987
1,255
Don't bother trying to argue logic when it comes to the laws. I learned quite some time ago that "The inmates are running the Asylum". Try explaining to a Judge for example that, in order for something to have an age, it must actually exist in order to be affected by time... Then try explaining that fictional characters don't actually exist and are therefore not affected by time...

In a logical world that would make sense, but in the real world, logic is irrelevant. Apparently the law makers are unable to distinguish the difference between fictional and reality. Hence "The Inmates Are Running The Asylum".
Some countries allow fictional underage characters.

But take this with a grain of salt. Law application is never coherent. How could it be? The inmates are running the asylum.
 
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brasileirinho

Active Member
Apr 28, 2021
987
1,255
It's obvious even to Meshedvr that Hub Mods lack knowledge and experience, they are an embarrassment to the community, I mean look at Ash when confronted with bare truth that they don't have a mechanism for checking vars before hosting on hub, complete ignorance
...

And for those creators trying to punish the community, it's impossible because I scan every single var for malicious code before uploading, any .cs file is scanned, any dll file is decompiled automatically to text and scanned, you would be wasting your time, you can fool the hub for sure but this ain't gonna work here.
Lol look at that. Software from a piracy website is safer than from the original source.
 

Bugafuga

Active Member
May 8, 2021
507
417
Yeah, taking something you didn't make and reselling it is more in line with theft than piracy since you're now directly taking money that should have gone to the creator of that thing. Art theft is annoyingly common for instance, and it looks roughly like that.

But those kinds of people, they're not gonna stop, none of these kinds of measures are going to stop them, reselling something like this is a much more easily persecutable crime than standard piracy, but that doesn't stop those people, nothing will stop those people; in southeast asia it's common for products to be sold as if they belong to one brand or another, but they aren't really of that brand, the brand is just put on there to make it easier to sell, and people will knowingly buy those fakes too because the real brand is expensive.

That is a dangerous game to play, but a lot of people do that, it takes more effort than reselling pirated content, it's more dangerous legally speaking, and yet that doesn't stop people from doing it.

Which should put into perspective how this little song and dance can't and won't really achieve anything for them except waste the creator's time on nonsense. Because that's all it is, wasting time on something that's not preventable in the first place. These measures don't even really make it harder to pirate either, all it does, it make things more difficult for their actual customers, and makes the creators themselves have less time to work on creating more goodies becaues they're spending it all on policing their existing stuff.

You know how authors handle this? They just release content faster than it can reasonably be expected to be pirated.

Piracy takes time, it generally doesn't happen on day 1, and people are impatient, some people when they want something, want it immediately, you can never have that with piracy, with piracy you're not even really guaranteed to get what you want because for you to get it means somebody else has to decide to share it first.

So what the authors do, is they release their story online for free, but then on patreon you can read maybe 5, 10 chapters ahead, it's unlikely for any individual pirate to hound those author's patreons to re-release the content that those authors are gonna make free in a few days or weeks anyways, I haven't even really seen it happen ever.

Basically, volume is one of the best actions that can be taken against piracy, if you make more stuff, the pirates will lag behind the official releases, and the impatient big spender type people who want a thing now will still flock to your patreon with no more action needed from you as the creator. The pirates will still get your stuff, but the ones paying will get it a lot faster.

Instead of playing a game of trying to stop piracy, play the game of offering something better to those who pay, something that won't carry over as easily to piracy.

PS: WIth all this crap about toxic creators wanting to put viruses on pirated vars (they could if they embraced piracy btw, just upload the pirated versions themselves before anyone else does it lol, that's how hackers spread viruses in the first place through piracy, I have personally witnessed someone do exactly this to spread a virus; of course these things do get caught, usually doesn't take that long either, but vars are actually uniquely well suited for this kind of scheme) I'm actually kinda relieved that I alwasy run vam through wine, so the damage such a thing could do is absolutely trivial unless wine users are specifically targeted (which is extremely uncommon; and would still be quite limited in scope even then).

Also I don't think it'd harm VAM at all if some creators released viruses on it. League of Legends' playerbase didn't meaningfully change when they forced everyone to install kernel level chinese spyware to continue playing.
This is the way most of the porn game community seems to be inclined toward. They release regular free versions of their games (since many are using licensed characters, they're already technically pirated, but semantics) here and other places like dik and they do early releases for their patreons. A lot of them get a pretty decent amount of support.
 
Jan 13, 2018
16
5
I really don't have an issue with people charging for their models but dude I'm not subbing $10/month because I want one look from your collection. Patreon's subscription model is cancer.
Same. I spent $600 on commissions. Two of them popped up on f95.
Any high quality works that I discover here that I like, I go to the patron page and do a $10 membership-cancel to donate.
I believe artist should be supported but everyone's got a patron page these days. Having multiple subscriptions is just too much especially when someone just want specific models.
 

xxxMKxxx

New Member
Sep 21, 2019
8
3
As a creator in another field, something I learnt was that folks who consider pirating content would almost never convert into paying customers anyway. There are really no lost sales here. I usually think of it as free publicity (and yes, even for my own content) :cool:

Hopefully all of these listed VaM creators can come to that realization soon and stop treating all of their paying customers as potential criminals. The few VaM creators I do support thankfully dont bother with such "extreme" measures, and I'm happy to keep them going as a result :)

Be grateful for the earnings you get from what is essentially a hobby. Stressing out about things like this is unhealthy. Just my two cents.
We do. I'd be a deadbeat chinese romance novel hero if I bought any game on steam without trying it out first. It's too high of a risk.
Thanks to sites like f95, I was able to find games that I played LOTS (over 1k hours each), paid full packs, etc.
Simples example - Dyson Sphere Program. I dled it and two hours later I bought it. Oh, yeah, it's a chinese indy.

Why chinese only stuff? Well, because OP quite openly pointed out to the chinese resellers, so I went with the theme :)

Ps
Honestly, buying anything on patreon or any other subscription model is a waste for me. I want this and that, not everything from your/someones 123412321gb library of cloned stuff.
 

stront2023

New Member
Jan 30, 2023
8
7
Whether you update or not, it doesn't matter, the new update fixes a trivial exploit and in order to effectively use it, you have to combine it with others that's why no body bothered implementing/using it, there are more serious ones, vam is largely vulnerable, exploitable, in short, don't run plugins/(assetbundles+dlls) from untrusted sources like Chinese vars ..etc, period.
Well shit. So am I right to assume there is no actual proper sandbox for plugins/etc?
With the amount of dependencies I have to pull from the hub how can I even check if everything is legit..
 

Horizon666

Member
Jun 30, 2018
235
304
Some countries allow fictional underage characters.

But take this with a grain of salt. Law application is never coherent. How could it be? The inmates are running the asylum.
Funny thing is, while I'm obviously not into that kind of stuff, its the insanity of it that drives me up the wall. They're FICTIONAL, not real! How can you be allowed to make laws that govern how others are treated when you can't distinguish between fantasy and reality?

Some laws that actually made sense have even been overturned. The one that springs to mind immediately is the one about "Women not allowed to walk around topless". That one actually made sense for it to exist. Men could do it because if you touch a mans chest you haven't just committed sexual assault. So obviously a mans chest isn't considered sexual. A woman's is, so in order to be consistent the law used to be that you can't show sexual parts of your body in public, which means that "Women can't walk around in public showing their tits". The fact that it was overturned and repealed in a lot of places shows that the Inmates took over. (I say that as a guy who likes tits). Either women's breasts are considered sexual (for sexual assault laws) or they're not (Women being topless). You can't have them be sexual and not sexual at the same time, that's just insane.

*Edit* I've wondered how the law would handle a scenario where a guy touched a woman's chest when she was walking around topless. If they say its sexual assault then they're saying that the breasts are sexual, but she's showing them so they can't be...

In reality, they'd just side with the woman, but that doesn't make it any less incoherent.
 
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Velomous

Member
Jan 14, 2024
289
278
Some countries allow fictional underage characters.

But take this with a grain of salt. Law application is never coherent. How could it be? The inmates are running the asylum.
The good thing about fictional characters, u can say they're whatever age you want, the bad thing about fictional characters, your opposition can claim they look like whatever age they want too.

It's the kind of law that can be used to remove inconvenient artists from the picture. That is an interesting page, you can see what countries are most degenerate. like tonga. You're not allowed to own it but it's legal to produce it, that's suspicious as fuck.

But yeah, making fictional crimes illegal is such a waste of law enforcement resources, and bad for artistic freedom too. Like... Guts gets raped a bit as a kid in berserk, so wouldn't this make Berserk illegal in a lot of countries? I think Alucard had a similar situation too so hellsing as well :HideThePain:

Fictional shit should be universally legal no matter what it is. By making certain disgusting things illegal in fiction, public awareness of those issues goes down as essentially nobody's allowed to really talk about it in real depth, even philosophically.
 

Chris237

Newbie
Jul 28, 2017
17
13
No, that's not true either.

If I setup a boobytrap in my house, and a burglar breaks in and gets killed by it guess what? I just committed, at the very least, manslaughter if not murder. If what you said was true we wouldn't have seen Sony BMG get in trouble for installing rootkits in 2005 which they did in an effort to combat, you guessed it: piracy.



Besides that: VAM creators aren't tracking us, the people getting their content for free, they are tracking the people who are actually paying them for the content. IMO what they are doing is like 2 levels of extra stupid. Most pirates were never going to pay for that content even if no avenue to acquire it for free existed. Their efforts are only rolling the dice on whether they go just a bit too far and trip up legally. Even if they don't at the very least they are probably pissing off their paying customers, the very people they want on patreon.
That would be true IF the traps in vam files would kill you. But in this case its just helps identify their customers. Thats it. Nice try tho.
 
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Chris237

Newbie
Jul 28, 2017
17
13
Btw i dont defend neither of the sides. I "steal" these stuffs too! F it! But at least i dont try to come up with bs why is it good or why am i not guilty!
 
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trogdor5

Newbie
Jan 6, 2022
23
35
Fictional shit should be universally legal no matter what it is. By making certain disgusting things illegal in fiction, public awareness of those issues goes down as essentially nobody's allowed to really talk about it in real depth, even philosophically.
what if that fictional shit can be demonstrated to lead to higher rates of harm to real people
 

Velomous

Member
Jan 14, 2024
289
278
what if that fictional shit can be demonstrated to lead to higher rates of harm to real people
Moot point, it hasn't been. People have been trying to prove that violence in video games breeds violent crime since video games existing became public knowledge man, if anything it has been thoroughly demonstrated that these things do not meaningfully impact crime rates at all.

But I would argue that if it does have an impact, the impact would be reduced crime rates as people with fetishes going in that direction would be able to get their rocks off to the fictional stuff without going through all the trouble of going out and actually committing crime. It's just as easy to argue the opposite of course, but to demonstrably prove it either way? Not really possible.

The only thing that has been demonstrably proven, is that whichever way this whole thing swings, it's statistically insignificant.