looking for info on making sceens and characters

hotwheelz05

New Member
Mar 1, 2019
4
0
Hi,

I'm looking for some info on how people are doing the sceens and characters. I've been playing some of these games for coupe months now and I'm interested in making one, i've played games like milfy city, F.I.L.F, man of the house, just to name a few and those are the style i like, but trying to figure out the artwork aspect. i would be doing it in renpy and have watched some videos on youtube for the basics but my main questions at on the youtube videos for renpy is say to insert your images as a .jpg , so does that mean that the backround and characters have to be done in photoshop? if so what are people using the honey select or daz3d for? or do you need both? how can you insert a file from daz3d if it's not a .jpg or am i totally wrong lol
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 27, 2018
1,249
7,625
It looks as if you still have a significant amount to learn prior to being sufficiently knowledgeable to create a game / VN, however I hope the following items might point you in the right direction.
- Ren'Py is a tool for organising images / sound / text videos into a game. It doesn't not create the content, but allows control of how they are presented.
- Daz3D / Honey Select are 3D packages for the creation of images / animations for your game. Creation involves the posing / tweaking of base 3D models created by other artists.
- Daz3D / Honey Select produce images (png, jpg) as the output from the rendering process. The can also produce videos.
- Photoshop / GIMP are image editors that can be used to touch up the Daz3D / Honey Select images created and may also be used to generate 2D art should you be skilled artist.

As a first step I would suggest you attempt to create some artwork using Daz3D / Honey Select. The games you mention use Daz3D as the base for the image creation. You can download Daz3D for free, however much of the nice content to make your modelling life easier is procured from the site. You can download many of these for free, however if you are planning on making any money from the results of your art (eg Patreon) you really should support the asset creation artists by procuring their work.

PS: It will likely take a couple of months practice to create artwork to the level of Man of the House / FILF, however the quality of work by Icstor may be out of your reach. Also you will soon realise that creating content is quite a time consuming process. The game creators actually earn the money they receive via Patreon.
 

hotwheelz05

New Member
Mar 1, 2019
4
0
thanks for the info, yeah i realize it's a time consuming process but i really have a lot on my hands so if i can manage to figure out the artwork then i can at least try it, i just downloaded daz3d but i'm having trouble seeing the interface i find the words on the tabs really small to the point i can't pick out what the names of the tabs are, is there a way to fix that or am i just that blind lol
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 27, 2018
1,249
7,625
I can't say I have tried to increase the font size on Daz. Your best bet will be to check out the Daz website or help forum.

One item that has me concerned is that if you are struggling to read the text, are you attempting to run Daz on a laptop. Without a decent graphics card the time to create a decent render is prohibitive.
 

hotwheelz05

New Member
Mar 1, 2019
4
0
yeah i'm using a laptop is a msi gt70 i7-4930mx, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M with a GDDR5 3gb, and 32Gb DDR3 Ram 17" screen i've googled on how to change the font size and setting for daz seems like alot of people were saying the same thing but haven't found a answer yet
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 27, 2018
1,249
7,625
Before you invest too much time into learning how to use Daz, some information on what to expect. I currently use a GTX1060 6GB video card in a desktop PC, which is about 5 years old. Based upon a comparison benchmark, your PC will be about 3 times slower, hence rendering times per image will be roughly as follows (1080p):
- Single character with HDRI or other simple lighting - 1 hour
- About 3 characters with propped background - 6 hours

There will also be an upper limit to what you can render given limited RAM. This can however be mitigated somewhat by reducing the texture map size (Scene Optimizer).
 

polywog

Forum Fanatic
May 19, 2017
4,065
6,295
Before you invest too much time into learning how to use Daz, some information on what to expect. I currently use a GTX1060 6GB video card in a desktop PC, which is about 5 years old. Based upon a comparison benchmark, your PC will be about 3 times slower, hence rendering times per image will be roughly as follows (1080p):
- Single character with HDRI or other simple lighting - 1 hour
- About 3 characters with propped background - 6 hours

There will also be an upper limit to what you can render given limited RAM. This can however be mitigated somewhat by reducing the texture map size (Scene Optimizer).
You can significantly reduce your render times, and the overall download size of your visual novel, by rendering characters and backgrounds separately. Render 2 or 3 angles of a room, then place your characters and any foreground elements in front of them, in layers over the background.
 

hotwheelz05

New Member
Mar 1, 2019
4
0
hmm, yeah i expect it would take a couple hours to render images, that's not a big deal to me i'm not looking to make some crazy game, well not right away lol, just like to try and make something, like i said i have a lot of time on my hands, i'm in a wheelchair so i don't go out much so i would have the time to spend on making stuff and trying to learn how to do the code work, but not being able to read the tabs on daz will make it a lot harder to do things. but oh well it was just a thought i was thinking of to help pass the time
 

OhWee

Forum Fanatic
Modder
Game Developer
Jun 17, 2017
5,882
29,892
The font size for daz (if you are using Windows 10 at least) is controlled via the general scaling parameter for the Windows environment.



This change will make the font bigger in other apps and on the desktop too, but at least stuff will be a little more readable in Daz.

At least you have a 17.3" screen which is much nicer than say a 13.3". I learned Daz on a 13.3" laptop. I still use the smaller laptop for browsing these days, but am now using a desktop with a larger monitor for Daz.

Renpy is set up pretty much perfectly for the 'add characters over background thing', and rendering characters separately from their backgrounds (but with appropriate lighting) does reduce your render times, so if you have a few locations that you are going to re-using over and over, yeah you can do your game 'Lab Rats' style. I call it that because Lab Rats was the first Renpy game I spent any signiicant time modding back in the day.

You can also add the backgrounds behind characters in Photoshop (or GIMP, etc.), which can gives you a little more control over how bright/dark the background is, or other elements for each scene screen you have in mind as the dialogue progresses. Renpy has a few levers along these lines too that you could use 'ingame', but those generally just adjust the hue, etc. of the image.

If you can find decent HDRIs for lighting, those can provide you with some quick lighting as well. The site has a number of free HDRIs available, and you could use some of those as the 'environment' for one or more of your outdoor scenes (I particularly like the beach and forest themed ones). These are added via the Render Settings>Environment>Environment Map slider row, by clicking just to the left of the slider bar and browsing to wherever you have your HDRI installed.

Some Daz lighting sets and environments utilize the environment map image for the sphere around a scene as well. You'll need to set your viewport to Iray, and make sure that Dome is set to on (Dome and Scene or Dome only) to see the actual background in the viewport. If you set Dome to off, if the environment map is an HDRI (and providing lighting for the scene), you'll render the character without the background being visible, but with the environment dome still lighting up the character. So if it's the character and dome only (which is off), you'll get the transparent background plus the character, plus any objects that may be in the foreground (say a couch). You may also want to make sure that ground shadow is set to on, and perhaps set to manual. There is a setting that controls ground shadow intensity under Render Settings>Environment as well.

Note that the dome/environment map can be rotated in the render settings, as opposed to rotating the characters, if you want a differrent angle for the lighting being provided by the dome, and/or to adjust the orientation of the background if Dome is set to on.

If the HDRIs prove to be too resource intensive (I've had good luck with them), yeah as mentioned previously there's always the tried and true 'point light plus a spot light or two' approach.

With 3 GB of VRAM, yeah tricks like this one can help keep the scene overhead down, and hopefully you can shoehorn things into your card.

A couple of other tips are to use Scene Optimizer to reduce the sizes of your texture maps, and remove items of clothing that the camera doesn't see. Specifically boots/shoes, they can be resource hogs sometimes.

Genesis 8 characters often require larger amounts of VRAM than previous generations (not always), so using 'older' Daz characters can help keep your scene overhead a bit smaller. Genesis and Genesis 2 are in general a bit more VRAM friendly than Genesis 3 as well, but of course you will have a few less posing options for the character joints of the earlier characters as well, and of course they are older so getting the newer outfits to work on them can be hit or miss. Also, a number of older characters may not have Iray specific texture maps. The other maps will work, but you may want to use the Iray Uber Base shader on them so that they work a little better with Iray, and so that the 'sliders' under surfaces for those characters are similar to the Iray textured stuff you may be using already.

There's also some trick about losing bump maps/normals or something along these lines helping cut down character VRAM overhead in scenes, but as I have more VRAM in my system, that's one that I haven't had to do, so I don't remember exactly the details about that particular tip.

For Genesis 8, there's a product called which converts your characters to 'mapless', with a number of options for your skin textures. If you really want to use a Genesis 8 character(s) in your scene, but keep hitting the VRAM wall, yeah this can significantly reduce the VRAM overhead for characters, and also reduce your render times significantly in the process. There may be a product for previous gen characters that does this too, but I haven't come across it.

Anyways, there are a number of threads, here and on the Daz forum, that talk about ways to minimize scene VRAM overhead. If you keep having your renders drop to CPU only, yeah those might be worth googling.
 

Xavster

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 27, 2018
1,249
7,625
hmm, yeah i expect it would take a couple hours to render images, that's not a big deal to me i'm not looking to make some crazy game, well not right away lol, just like to try and make something, like i said i have a lot of time on my hands, i'm in a wheelchair so i don't go out much so i would have the time to spend on making stuff and trying to learn how to do the code work, but not being able to read the tabs on daz will make it a lot harder to do things. but oh well it was just a thought i was thinking of to help pass the time
The first step is to be keen on creation of something and also investing the time. Via the use of batch rendering, you can have renders completed overnight or whilst you are doing something else. This maximise the time your PC can be active rendering. I would recommend giving it a go, just don't start with your expectations too high.

Daz is reasonably easy to learn sufficiently to produce a reasonable render (on par with most games on this site), however producing high quality renders takes quite a lot of learning (much of it in photography and lighting techniques). Ren'Py which is used to manage the content is fairly easy to learn and the inbuilt tutorials for this app are extremely good.