LOPG and S&G: getting at the good stuff

Volta

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
446
400
#1
LOP and it's group of pay sites have been around for a good while now, long before the incest boom, before the Ren'Py boom and on the whole they've produced some great stuff, i could glorify LWT1 among others for hours but that's not the point.

We all know this is a pirate site, most Dev's do as well and they tend to shrug their shoulders and take the trade off between publicity and supposed lost sales, now the lost sales is a red herring in a lot of ways due to the patreon model in which you support the dev effectively on an open subscription for a period of your choice, you aren't "buying" the product, rather you are funding the Dev, it's fairly different from say, pirating a CD, you do it once and you've got it, £10 not going to the record company, artist and co. where pirating a patreon game that is undergoing continual updates is less worrying to a Dev since you aren't bypassing the single point of sale, in fact there is a chance that you'll in fact be more likely to contribute to the Dev's patreon.

Why is this important you ask? LOP is not operating on the patreon style of development, they release games when they are finished (jokes about LWT2 aside) and therefore they are understandably more worried about piracy and have started using some fairly heavy weight DRM, one pirate download for their new game could translate to a few months lost subscription money for them so it makes sense even if it does feel like a dick move by Leonizer

a few questions for you, the F95Zone public:

- Is the subscription model outmoded?
- is piracy worth the publicity for the patreon model, how does it compare to the subscription model?
- Is LOP big enough to not need the extra awareness generated by piracy?
- Should we support LOP for not moving to a patreon style model and staying true to the old way of development?

But most importantly does anyone know the state of affairs with dealing with the DRM on the new games, is it easier to just find an account to use, or should we just put up or pay up?
 
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W65

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2018
757
577
#3
These are the kinds of questions--piracy questions aside--that an adult games industry group would be best able to answer. The answers are probably similar to the ones that apply to regular old adult paywall sites, which probably still use the same kind of subscription models. Currently, whatever porn industry groups are out there are probably the ones who're best able to take on these questions, if adult game sites are even on their radar.

I just don't think that our community is by itself equipped to answer those kinds of questions. Individual developers are certainly welcome to share their experiences, but I just don't know if there's enough traffic in these areas to really get satisfying answers to these questions. Of course, adult industry groups are not going to have the same open mind regarding folks on forums like this one as the more piracy-tolerant Patreon devs are.

(I'd also argue that just by sheer weight of numbers there probably are devs on Patreon who don't buy into the piracy-as-advertising idea. They're just not around on this forum, naturally, to argue against it.)

There is this sort of budding need for a group of folks to formally study adult gaming trends, but groups like that need money to operate and would probably (for the sake of their own legitimacy in the West) have to adopt the anti-taboo attitudes of places like Patreon.
 

anne O'nymous

Well-Known Member
Modder
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
2,008
2,161
#5
- Is the subscription model outmoded?
Irrelevant question. You don't choose you financial model because of an actual trend, but because it fit your business model.
Take a site like Pornhub, with tons of content, but that rely on impulsive use. You can find people to subscribe, but the vast majority of the users will not do it, because they can use it massively one month, then don't use it during the next six months.
Same, nobody will take a subscription to the site of an indie studio, because it make no sense. The biggest of them have five, perhaps six, games already made. After one week, your subscription become useless until the day, many months later, they'll finally have finished their next game.
But for a site like LOP it's something else. They rely on small games, have tons of them, and do their best to release at least a new one each month. Here, you'll need more than a month to see all the actual content, and even if you already achieve this, you'll effectively have something new each month.

Some can argue that indie studios funded on Patreon also have new content each month ; the update of their game. But here it's a question of point of view, which is also the difference between a subscription and a monthly support. You subscribe to effectively have something new, but you expect something complete because you payed for it. This while you gladly accept to have an intermediary release in exchange of your support for the devel process of the game.


- is piracy worth the publicity for the patreon model, how does it compare to the subscription model?
Yes, especially if your game is average. The more people know about your game, the more you'll find someone willing to give you few bucks. If your game is a top quality one, you can find one each 100 players. But if it's an average one, you'll need 1000 players to find someone willing to give you the money you need.
But you can't compare this with subscription model. When lop started, the adult games scene was at a low point. Any site letting us have something to play was worthy enough for a subscription. Nowadays, someone trying to do the same will simply fail. Not only the scene is over saturated, but there's also other funding options.


- Is LOP big enough to not need the extra awareness generated by piracy?
Of course ; they are 15 years old after all. But anyway saying that they don't have awareness because of piracy is wrong. The fact that it's now really difficult to pirate part their content don't mean that you can't find tons of their games here and there. Even with those games not being the recent ones, they exist and each month new people hear about them and, out of curiosity, take a look at what they have done recently.
But well, they also have free games, it's not without reason.


- Should we support LOP for not moving to a patreon style model and staying true to the old way of development?
Should we even support LOP ? Anyway, going on Patreon is a none sense for them. Not only because, like I implied above, they don't have a business model that can works with this kind of funding, but also because they'll never make as much money than they actually do. I will be unlikely that they have less than 100 000 subscribers, they'll never reach this number on Patreon ; there isn't someone near to this number, the first ranked have 57 852 patrons.
 
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Volta

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
446
400
#6
Some very good points there @anne O'nymous, what you described as in your "big enough to not need piracy" section was particularly interesting, the free games effectively replace the piracy, not something i had considered and a very shrewd move on their part, combine this with the fact that they aren't using the same DRM on the free games supports you're point greatly that while they don't need piracy and will actively prevent it where possible this lack of DRM on the free games suggests that a: it isn't worth the effort since the game is free and b: they don't care about not earning from a product they were never going to earn from in the first place, effectively they have nothing to lose and everything to gain so why not let the pirates advertise for them?
 

anne O'nymous

Well-Known Member
Modder
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
2,008
2,161
#7
[...] effectively they have nothing to lose and everything to gain so why not let the pirates advertise for them?
Because they can't compete ?
Whatever if they are good or bad, nowadays adult games have a story that develop over the time and for (more or less) half of them don't resolve around sex only. This while LOP games tend to be the opposite. Sex is the reason, and the story stay the same from start to end ; when there's really variations, they are really small ones. There's exceptions, but they actually still are exceptions.

Their games aren't bad, but they haven't evolved enough since their first ones. While the scene have matured, they only improved the quality, keeping more or less the same concept and game play. And now, they don't reach anymore the expectations of the public. They have their fan base and will keep it, but there's now less people willing to pay for this few. Especially when you can have longer games, with more involvement from your part, for free. And here I don't mean pirated games, but legally free ones. Simply because, for games funded over Patreon, mostly the piracy consist to offer the game earlier. Soon or later, the update and/or finished game, will be release for free by its author.
So, preventing piracy is here mandatory, because of the implied mind trick. By becoming a member, you also become part of a privileged club. You're part of the elite, while pirates stay part of the plebs. It works in the same way than any business. There's people ready to pay more to have the illusion of a better quality and/or service. And it's those people that they now target.
But for this to works, you must ensure that only the privileged will benefit of the product. If you want, it's the same than buying a Chanel dress on Chanel shop, while any women can have the exact same one (and a legit one, not a counterfeit one) in the supermarket near to their house. Suddenly, having this dress mean nothing ; even having a Chanel product mean nothing.
In this analogy, the free games are the Chanel Perfumes. The thing that anyone can have, and that will make them approach the elite. But still it's just some perfume, you're tons to have them... While the dresses owners will stay in a limited number and continue to feel way better than you. You want to be officially parts of Chanel's Elite ? Then buy one of our dresses... You want to be officially parts of LOP's Elite ? Then buy a membership.
 
Jun 15, 2018
35
62
#8
I will be unlikely that they have less than 100 000 subscribers
I very much doubt that LOP or S&G have more than 100000 subs. My guess would be 10000 recurring and 20000 temp subs every month. Most of porn game money is on Patreon these days. The quality of games such as Milfy city, FILF or Timestamps only to name a few is far better than LOP who I agree still produce great renders but their storytelling sucks, save Iksanabot. Rahvin who wrote Eleanor 1 and 2 is not part of the third episode.The whole unhackable DRM reeks of a desperate attempt not to be pirated and to hold on to whatever's left of their fanbase. Which is kinda weird because if one searches for games at the very beginning of LOP (mostly stripping games), most of the images were off the net and I doubt money was ever paid to the owners.