Lets say i want to make visual novel and sell it in a online store. Honey select has a good studio/character creator. Background and other stuff for VN will be created in other programms. Can i use HS2 character model in my game without getting in legal troubles? Even if i use HS2 for character models, how they could possibly tell if i used their game for it? its pretty much possible to create exact same model in other app.
Make VN using Honey select 2?
- Thread starter Sizzl
- Start date
It's strictly speaking illegal.
I never heard of someone getting sued over this, since Illusion is pretty relaxed, when it comes to that, but if you're trying to sell your game via online stores, you might get a copyright claim and are forced to take the game down.
In other words: It's a very very low risk, but yeah, you could get in a lot of legal troubles, if somebody at Illusion really wants to fuck you over.
I never heard of someone getting sued over this, since Illusion is pretty relaxed, when it comes to that, but if you're trying to sell your game via online stores, you might get a copyright claim and are forced to take the game down.
In other words: It's a very very low risk, but yeah, you could get in a lot of legal troubles, if somebody at Illusion really wants to fuck you over.
But then again, how are they even find out that i am using their model? I can make exact same model in another programm, or i can put a render on their model
Because all of their games have the same clothes, poses, animations, props, maps and even graphical bugs. It's really not hard to spot a game using Illusion screenshots.
The chance of getting in legal trouble is a lot higher nowadays because of the western publisher they're using.
what if i can create my own custom clothes, poses, animations, props, maps and even graphical bugs etc? I only want to use a model that i created in their game, thats it.
There is no legal loop hole.
Forget about it. The moment, you use this engine, you are willing to take the risk to get sued.
There are a lot of games, that use Illusion as for rendering. To be fair, none of those games sell them directly to their customers, which is why I'd recommend you: Use their engine, yes, but don't sell the game on an official storepage. If you do sell, commission some artists and show them the hs2 render to work with.
I might remark here, that there might have been lawsuits, in which people were forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement, but I don't think, that those happened in relation with Illusion and their engines.
Forget about it. The moment, you use this engine, you are willing to take the risk to get sued.
There are a lot of games, that use Illusion as for rendering. To be fair, none of those games sell them directly to their customers, which is why I'd recommend you: Use their engine, yes, but don't sell the game on an official storepage. If you do sell, commission some artists and show them the hs2 render to work with.
I might remark here, that there might have been lawsuits, in which people were forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement, but I don't think, that those happened in relation with Illusion and their engines.
Thanks for the reply!! i am not from europe/america, english is not my native, I almost figured out pretty much everything, but i hit the wall with character modeling, do you know by any chance similar way, where i can create 3d character models without pain in the ass? i am also stumbled across a game on steam, which uses koitatu characters and background - release date 2018 and its still not taken down, but only few people bought it. If i make my game free, i still can't put it on a storepage?
Commercial or non-commercial doesn't make a difference in the eyes of the law, when it comes to most copyright-violations. A violation is a violation, after all.
If you offer it for free, the odds that someone bothers to go after you just drops immensly.
And yeah, there is one Koikatsu game on steam iirc. It just goes to show, how low the odds are, that someone will take legal action against you (I mean... It's free advertisement for Illusion, after all).
Just, uh...
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty positive, that "There are so many games, who do the same thing" won't save you in court.
Not that anyone will sue. Just saying.
And as for alternatives, it's quite difficult, when it comes to the illusion games.
You can technically port HS and Koikatsu models into DAZ or blender, but both require painful and timeconsuming edits.
There's Vroid, i think? and some v-tuber software-voodoo shit.
If you find any good alternatives, let me know. I'm asking for a friend as well (Literally a friend).
If you offer it for free, the odds that someone bothers to go after you just drops immensly.
And yeah, there is one Koikatsu game on steam iirc. It just goes to show, how low the odds are, that someone will take legal action against you (I mean... It's free advertisement for Illusion, after all).
Just, uh...
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty positive, that "There are so many games, who do the same thing" won't save you in court.
Not that anyone will sue. Just saying.
And as for alternatives, it's quite difficult, when it comes to the illusion games.
You can technically port HS and Koikatsu models into DAZ or blender, but both require painful and timeconsuming edits.
There's Vroid, i think? and some v-tuber software-voodoo shit.
If you find any good alternatives, let me know. I'm asking for a friend as well (Literally a friend).
well technically speaking, you're using blender for the model and render.
In front of a court, you'd have reasonable defense, I guess. Then again, I'm not a lawyer and once again: I might be wrong. But it's difficult to sue you, if you took inspiration from the illusion games.
As you can see, that topic is very murky and not explored in most countries anyways. In the end, the choice is up to you and what you're willing to risk.
In front of a court, you'd have reasonable defense, I guess. Then again, I'm not a lawyer and once again: I might be wrong. But it's difficult to sue you, if you took inspiration from the illusion games.
As you can see, that topic is very murky and not explored in most countries anyways. In the end, the choice is up to you and what you're willing to risk.
The problem is i don't quite understand what am i risking, if i decide to sell my game and they find out. Are they gonna ask to just take it down, or some japanese yakuza from illusion will make me pay insane amount of money on top of it?
A Cease and decist is the most common practice. The odds of that happening are already low enough. I never heard of one, at least, so I think Illusion is pretty cool on that front.
Then again, there might be lawsuits with Non-disclosure agreements out there.
In theory, they can fuck you so hard. And not in a good way.
They can drown you in legal bills and swamp you with lawsuits, which you'll be paying for for the rest of your lives. But let's get things straight here: Why would a multimillion company bother about a indie game developer, who just tries to make a few side earnings.
I'm just saying, that if someone REALLY hates you, they could get you. Then again: I don't see, why anyone would do that and I never heard of someone do that. It's stupid to waste millions on lawyers to fuck a single indie game developer, who will never be able to compensate for the lawyer-costs.
And once again: I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitballing here.
EDIT:
Then again, there might be lawsuits with Non-disclosure agreements out there.
In theory, they can fuck you so hard. And not in a good way.
They can drown you in legal bills and swamp you with lawsuits, which you'll be paying for for the rest of your lives. But let's get things straight here: Why would a multimillion company bother about a indie game developer, who just tries to make a few side earnings.
I'm just saying, that if someone REALLY hates you, they could get you. Then again: I don't see, why anyone would do that and I never heard of someone do that. It's stupid to waste millions on lawyers to fuck a single indie game developer, who will never be able to compensate for the lawyer-costs.
And once again: I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitballing here.
EDIT:
Out of curiosity: Have you heard of legal action (Even just a Cease and decist) from a project? I do understand, that a western publisher increases the odds of that happening, but have you heard of anything?
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I heard there was a guy recently who was sued by activision. The dude made a game called warzone 5 years ago, and they released call of duty: warzone last year, but decided to fuck the guy over. I don't know if its a right example.
https://f95zone.to/threads/fakku-love-hate-still-pending-resolution.35129/
So you're basically paying some douchebag protection money so he doesn't sue you.
Not even in the same ballpark.
Warzone tried to threaten activision for using the name, then they sued him.
That's nowhere close to Illusion suing people for using their assets. There are many examples, which come a lot more close, like Nintendo and Disney suing left and right and crusing fangames in their infantile state.
Thanks for the link, I'm interested to look it up, but from a first skim, it's the same with the copyright strikes on youtube: Just some assholes, who try to legally blackmail people.
EDIT: From what I've seen on the first two pages of posts, we can conclude this:
If you make a lot of money with your project, Fakku wants their share (Important to say: Fakku, not Illusion). Fakku is legally speaking the representative of Illusion and Illusion is not saying no to free money from fakku, IF someone comes forth and cuts a licensing deal.
There were no clear projects shut down as far as I can tell, though.
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- Dec 12, 2022
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Sorry for using necromancy on this post but hey man, you're cool! I'm also trying to create a game using Koikatsu model, even their studio for animation! Half way through and suddenly remembered this thing called "copyright" and "legal action".Thanks to you, now I'm just going to go head with the game. But can I ask if the country I live in matter if I happen to be sued ? The law is super lax here.
- Jul 6, 2021
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Illusion don't go after people using their assets, they never have and they never will, absolutely no one has anything to be concerned about. If you credit them, which I would never do, it wouldn't matter. They are not interested in perusing the small creative developer who makes vn's.
They only actively go after people who pirate their software, and those who pretend to be third party sellers of Illusion, of which there are no official third parties to them.
I don't know who said that you could not sell HS1 / 2 games on steam, but that is very wrong, because you can. A lot of people get rejected by valve because they have not followed their recommendations, which are not that stringent, but still you get people who try it on and then get butt hurt when they get rejected by them. They are told to make alterations if they want their game to be sold on their store, but for a lot of people that would be too much work for them, so they don't sell their vn, they still tend to make money on patreon or subscribe star so its not the end of the world. It is also not exactly cheap to keep submitting your game to valve either, since it cost $100 USD per submission, and it's touch and go if they accept it or not, seems to largely depend on the people on the day they receive submission, some people there are more receptive than others it would seem. But, yes you can sell HS2 games on steam and on other platforms. Most people don't mention the game engine and renderer because most people know what they are looking at.
They only actively go after people who pirate their software, and those who pretend to be third party sellers of Illusion, of which there are no official third parties to them.
I don't know who said that you could not sell HS1 / 2 games on steam, but that is very wrong, because you can. A lot of people get rejected by valve because they have not followed their recommendations, which are not that stringent, but still you get people who try it on and then get butt hurt when they get rejected by them. They are told to make alterations if they want their game to be sold on their store, but for a lot of people that would be too much work for them, so they don't sell their vn, they still tend to make money on patreon or subscribe star so its not the end of the world. It is also not exactly cheap to keep submitting your game to valve either, since it cost $100 USD per submission, and it's touch and go if they accept it or not, seems to largely depend on the people on the day they receive submission, some people there are more receptive than others it would seem. But, yes you can sell HS2 games on steam and on other platforms. Most people don't mention the game engine and renderer because most people know what they are looking at.
- Jul 4, 2017
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Could you please give me some names of these games, i want to check it out for myself.
The best in my humble opinion are: "Haram Hotel" by Runey, "Once in a lifetime" and "Eternum" by Caribdis and "Ripples" by Jestur.
- Jul 4, 2017
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I agree, those are some good HS2 games.
However, none of them are available on Steam, which was my original question. I asked because the previous poster was raving on about games made with Illusion Honey Select graphics were available on Steam. I'd never seen any, and my understanding was that Steam rejected such games because of the public stance by Illusion that you do not have permission to commercialize output of their games.
Basically, I was giving a chance for them to provide evidence before I called them a liar who was posting intentionally misleading information.