Ren'Py Making images gor games

[Rich]

In particular, Sickleyield has his SY200 morph packages for Genesis 8

Just for the record, Sickleyield is a "she"...

 

[redknight00]

A distinction should be made, between Daz Characters, and Daz Studio hobbyist Software.

Some of you might recognize Daz Characters in a game, and assume that the game was made in Daz Studio.
You can tell by the scene. If the scene looks cheezy, and usually just a poorly lit room, it was probably made in Daz Studio.
If the scene is vibrant, huge, and beautiful, chances are it was made in another render engine, and not Daz Studio.

Anyone here who says Daz Studio is the best render engine, is a fucking liar.

It's not about what's the best, it's about what gets the job done, and Daz3D does that just fine. I don't even like the renders made in it, but I can recognize that the ease of work, ready to use assets and general faster rhythm is better for beginners and people crunching monthly updates.

 

[Rich]

A distinction should be made, between Daz Characters, and Daz Studio hobbyist Software.

Some of you might recognize Daz Characters in a game, and assume that the game was made in Daz Studio.
You can tell by the scene. If the scene looks cheezy, and usually just a poorly lit room, it was probably made in Daz Studio.
If the scene is vibrant, huge, and beautiful, chances are it was made in another render engine, and not Daz Studio.

Anyone here who says Daz Studio is the best render engine, is a fucking liar.

Here I'm going to disagree with you. You can absolutely create big, beautiful, vibrant scenes in Daz Studio. It does, however, take time and effort in order to learn to use it well. That's no different from any other package.

I think it would be more accurate to say "If the scene looks cheezy - possibly just a poorly lit room - it was probably made by somebody that hasn't yet developed the experience to make it look better." It may very well have been done in Daz Studio, since, being free, DS is the first rendering package a lot of people try. But that doesn't mean that DS isn't capable of much more than what many newbies turn out. Lighting, in particular, is hard - not just in Daz, but in any package. But it's one of the keys to turning out high-quality renders, and it takes time and effort to learn, regardless of the package.

If you want to debate the capabilities of different rendering engines (Cycles vs iRay vs iClone vs put-your-favorite-one-here) that's a perfectly valid thing to do. What may be "best" for you may not be "best" for me. But, in the vast majority of cases, I'll stand on my position that the quality of the output depends much more on the operator than the tools.

 

[polywog]

It's not about what's the best, it's about what gets the job done, and Daz3D does that just fine. I don't even like the renders made in it, but I can recognize that the ease of work, ready to use assets and general faster rhythm is better for beginners and people crunching monthly updates.

I disagree, especially for beginners. Many Daz Studio cult members, got lured in and can't find their way out.

Faster rythm my ass. I can build a whole game city map in a real game engine, drop in some rigged characters with collision, physics, and scripted AI.... and while i'm setting up the furniture in the scene, the character bump into one another and start fucking all on their own.

Put Daz studio experience on your resume... you won't get hired.

 

[seamanq]

If the scene is vibrant, huge, and beautiful, chances are it was made in another render engine, and not Daz Studio.

Respectfully, dear sir, you are full of beans. A visit to many lovely posts in

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would prove your error better than anything I could write.

 

[OhWee]

That's true. Daz software is very proprietary, and does not play well with others. Again, Exporting from Daz Studio isn't the issue, you can use Daz models in any 3D software. The problem is importing other models into Daz Studio. They prefer that you only buy from Daz. Importing into Daz is a long process, even longer if you want to use Daz's proprietary Iray.



For those of you experienced Daz Studio users, who know how to import other models, and character models, into Daz Studio, and create custom bones and skeletal controls... why don't you make a tutorial to show the noobs, if it's so easy for you.

Again, this simply isn't true. Not all modeling programs can easily and flawlessly load Daz models. If they did, you'd see the appropriate Daz tags listed for every modeling program. Specifically, .duf, and of course the Poser tags .cr2, etc. for some of the older stuff.

And a number of other modeling programs have very proprietary formats too. Daz isn't the only 'outlier' in that regard. And even if an extension IS listed for a program, there's no guarantee whatsoever that every file with that extension will open without any issues. Some of the time, you have to figure out which program created the file, and open it in that program to get it to open properly, and then export it to a 'neutral' format to have any hope of it importing properly into the other program.

One only has to pay attention to notice all of the 'this file isn't opening properly' threads for various non-native formats for any particular 3D software, (and not just the Daz specific extensions, I'm talking ALL OF THEM), on the appropriate forum for any given modeling software.

AGAIN, it's time for you to start threads for your own 3D model/rendering program of choice. If others share your passion and experience for said programs, I'm sure they will contribute to said threads as well.

Also, there's the 'cost' and 'time' factors for any 3D modeling program.
As an example, 3DSMax is an awesome program, sure, but have you SEEN the licensing fees? Which is on a subscription model now, btw...
Link to the

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Maya is similarly expensive:
Link to the

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There are cheaper alternatives, sure, but the point is that COST is a major driver for the casual modeler. It doesn't matter how cool a program is if you can't afford it. Or the models that are avalable separately for said programs.

And have you SEEN some of the prices on sites like Turbosquid for models?

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Some of the paid Daz models look like extreme bargains by comparison.

Sure there are a number of free models around the web, with variious levels of usage rights (personal, commercial OK, etc.), but you DO need to pay attention to those usage rights, if you are making sure your bases are covered.

Anyways, the cost issue is why so many people use Blender these days. It's free. And why a number of developers here on F95Zone use Daz Studio, because the program itself, and a number of models for it are free, and you can set your own budget r.e. the paid Daz stuff (i.e. buy other stuff when can afford it, hopefully it's on sale at the time). And there's no worries about the software deactivating if you miss a licensing payment (which is relevant if the software you are using is on a licensing model).

For those using pirated versions of software, sure cost may be less of an issue/a non-issue, but of course you open yourself up to the risk of being sued or even thrown in jail for illegally using said software. And if you've set up Patreon accounts, etc. to market your game, well that's a big finger pointing right at your bank of choice, which makes it that much easier for the authorities to track you down via DMCA, etc.


Pontificating and Zealotry r.e. standards isn't doing anyone any favors, including yourself. And for someone that says they don't have a chip on their shoulder about Daz Studio, you sure come across exactly like you have a chip on your shoulder about Daz Studio. That my not be your intent, but that's how some are seeing it.

It's time for you to pick a program, and start advocating for it, in a new thread, and then share a link to that thread in this one for future reference. There are already numerous threads on this forum about Daz, and some of those have been linked to in this thread already, so I think the Daz angle has been covered to an extent. I think there's a couple of Honey Select links too...

I REALLY DO want to see other threads that are advocating for affordable and efficient alternatives to Daz Studio, and to a lesser extent Honey Select (this forum does have a few threads that talk about Honey Select as well). I'm not just saying that either. Some of our current developers here may be looking around and wanting to try something new, and such threads could be useful to them.

I'm sure the OP had no idea that this thread would become a shitstorm so quickly, and deserved better. Everyone has been civil (more or less) in this thread, which is good, but the entire point should be to point out alternatives for the OP, not to endlessly debate stuff that isn't entirely relevant to the OP's question (I wanna make pics for my game).

@maxic009
My personal apologies to you (the OP). I think, based on the discussion in this thread, you will now 'get' that Daz Studio is one of your choices, and that there are a number of other alternatives as well. In that regard, I hope at the very least that we are being helpful to you.

 

[seamanq]

@maxic009 Apologies to you for this getting a little bit out of hand. Daz 3D is an excellent program and there are lots of programmers and game developers who use it. Don't mind the religious zealotry that developed over this discussion. Give Daz 3D a try and see if you like it. If you can get your hands on Blender and other tools, you can give them a try as well. Best of success to you and happy gaming!

 

[polywog]

Here I'm going to disagree with you. You can absolutely create big, beautiful, vibrant scenes in Daz Studio. It does, however, take time and effort in order to learn to use it well. That's no different from any other package.

I think it would be more accurate to say "If the scene looks cheezy - possibly just a poorly lit room - it was probably made by somebody that hasn't yet developed the experience to make it look better." It may very well have been done in Daz Studio, since, being free, DS is the first rendering package a lot of people try. But that doesn't mean that DS isn't capable of much more than what many newbies turn out. Lighting, in particular, is hard - not just in Daz, but in any package. But it's one of the keys to turning out high-quality renders, and it takes time and effort to learn, regardless of the package.

If you want to debate the capabilities of different rendering engines (Cycles vs iRay vs iClone vs put-your-favorite-one-here) that's a perfectly valid thing to do. What may be "best" for you may not be "best" for me. But, in the vast majority of cases, I'll stand on my position that the quality of the output depends much more on the operator than the tools.

Rich, I remember a year ago, maybe more, you posted some good renders in the Big Brother fan art thread. It's obvious that you have a knack for 3D, and I encourage you to take it a step farther.
Your post saddens me to see you brag, saying essentially: Daz Studio works for me, if you suck at it, it must be you lacking ability, because the software is fantastic. No offense, if you want to show off "look what I can do in Daz Studio" You have clearly mastered the elementary school software. If that's as far as you want to go with it, that's up to you, but I think you could do great things if you would challenge yourself, and look into professional render engines. Just my 0.0002 cents accounting for inflation. Good luck with your visual novel, I just downloaded it, and I'll check it out when I have time.

 

[polywog]

Is there any other program gor 3D rendering image i am using DAZ3D but i want to know Is there any other program, thank you for your response

There are a lot of non Daz programs OP What art-style do you like?

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[OhWee]

One only has to spend a few minutes in this thread to get a feel for what's possible using 'just' Daz Studio, with maybe a bit of post work in Photoshop, etc.

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Artists of varying skill levels contribute to that thread, hence you have renders of varying quality. But a good amount of the artwork in that thread is simply stunning/breathtaking. Not bad for a program that's available for free...

As I've said before, the 'professional level' programs are all fine and good, IF you can afford them. But the fact is, most of the developers around here are doing games in their spare time, and have 'day jobs' that aren't related to 3D rendering, and have limited budgets for their 'developer hobby', and are mainly doing this for fun, not as a job resume thing. Besides, putting 'adult games developer' on your resume will not help you in a lot of cases...

Sure, if a developer gets lucky, they might become the next Mr. Dots or Lewdlab, which will help finance their hobby to the point that they MIGHT be able to afford more high end software, but the simple fact is that most developers won't see anywhere near that level of success, no matter how good their renders look, or how good their game is.

BTW, I mention Mr. Dots and Lewdlab, because they primarily use Daz assets and Daz Studio to set up their renders. I'm pretty sure that Lewdlab then transfers the scenes to another program (Luxrender maybe?) to render the final product, but I've seen some stunning renders done entirely using Daz3D for the entire process (with postwork as needed of course), hence the just 'pretty sure' thing. Other rather successful game developers around these parts also use Daz assets and Daz Studio, such as T4bbo, DarkSilver, and Icstor to name a few. Games that use hand drawn art are still winning the 'Patreon Adult Games Popularity Contest' by far though. Food for thought.

The reality is that most developers around here simply do not have budgets that can afford things like thousands of dollars a year for software subscriptions, etc. on top of the costs associated with building a decent rendering system in the first place, and purchasing models (sets, characters, hair, clothing, etc.) as needed for their games if budget allows.

Again, keep in mind that most people here that make or are planning to make games, including the OP, are looking to tell a story with their game, and as such they want the tools that are best suited for that purpose, that they can learn and use quickly and efficiently so that they can generate a decent number of renders in a reasonable amount of time to meet their next update deadline. And that they can afford with their lmited budget.

But I've made my point, no sense making this wall of text even longer.

 

[polywog]

Just for the record, Sickleyield is a "she"...

A LOT of Daz creators are Female, probably 90%

 

[Rich]

A LOT of Daz creators are Female, probably 90%

Entirely possible - screen names being what they are, it's not always obvious. It just happens that Sickleyield is one of the few whose gender I know for certain. (Her voice on her Youtube tutorials kind of gives it away. LOL)

 

[OhWee]

Just a followup note.

There are at least 242 PA's participatiing in the March Madness catchup sale on the Daz store (the sale says there are over 250 so I may have miscounted). That's not ALL of the PAs, just the ones that have had sales in the the March Madness discount sale so far this month. I mentioned that I'd report back when I could give a more accurate count. It's not all of them, but the number is in the hundreds.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.