Making Models

[MantisK]

I have not tried, I generally open a 3D section of one of my creative programs and think...hmm, way to much to learn today...and close it.
I recall, maybe incorrectly, that one can use photos to make 3D models. Also several programs have rough forms that, I assume, can be molded by artistic hands.
If these are compatible points, why are so many buying forms?
It seems there would be a ready market for just model makers here.
Much like set designers. I've seen more work put into free fan art than most semi-commercial projects (like BB) and think, "If they only collaborated...".

Anyways, let this thread exist for discussion on the various free to high-end platforms for making models and how to improve upon this segment of game design.

 

[grev]

Perhaps i am misunderstanding what you are saying but it seems like you have 2 points in contradictin here.
"Why are so many buying forms?" i take this to mean you are asking why people are buying created 3d models for their work
and
"It seems there would be a ready market for just model makers here" i take this to mean there is a market for people to make 3d models.

which indeed there is because of the first point so many people buying 3d models for their work as they dont have the time desire or ability to create their own.

as for the collaboration. some do some don't BB isnt just 1 person making the whole thing but the more people working the more income needs to be generated for it to be worthwhile to those involved. as the joker once said " if you are good at something never do it for free"

 

[MantisK]

NewPerhaps i am misunderstanding what you are saying but it seems like you have 2 points in contradictin here.
"Why are so many buying forms?" i take this to mean you are asking why people are buying created 3d models for their work
and
"It seems there would be a ready market for just model makers here" i take this to mean there is a market for people to make 3d models.

These are two points. I see many here complaining about one model in several games, but I consider it to be like hiring actors. As for the latter, yes, simply making the models is a necessary function, hence the companies that do it, but they seem to be limited in stock. I may be wrong and the dev's are just jumping to popular faces, like producers do.
So, maybe there are enough people that don't have writing or programming skills, but can build great and diverse models. I see lots of artist one off collections in 3D on other sites. perhaps a section for showcasing models is needed, and which systems they are compatible with.

Have you tried starting with 2D?

This is not about me. My hands are dealing with CTS and nerve damage from severe scoliosis. This is a general question as I see no such discussion here, other than for specific tools like DAZ.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I see many here complaining about one model in several games, but I consider it to be like hiring actors.

Except that it work as the opposite of hiring actors. You hire those who'll make you earn a lot of money, and they aren't cheap.
If we tend to see always the same models (and same morphs too) that's because they are the free/cheap/pirated ones. I'm sure that you can use Daz3D and have a marvelous girl, wearing extra classy lacy underwear and striking a pose that would raise even a dead man... Just seeing her like that and you'll burst your pant.
But how many hundreds dollars do you need for this ? Few can afford this expense for their first game. I mean, they don't even know if they'll make a single dollar, so they'll not use the ones they saved for their holidays at the beach and the Christmas gifts for both their wife/husband and children.
Then, come the day they start making tons of money... Firstly, they'll not change the models/morphs in the middle of the game. Rendering again all those scenes ? Nah ! Secondly... well, people give them tons of money to see them use the same models and morphs than anyone else. Of course, they can spend this money for to show us something new ; they'll perhaps make a little more money because of this. Or they can keep the money for them since they're already pay for these old overseen models and morphs.
There's developers/teams who changed their models because the previous game(s) did good, but most of the time it's to switch to high quality 2D.

This said, there's a third option. You create your own models/morphs. Because they don't appear by magic on the stores, someone created them. But if anyone can make a scene with Daz3D (or whatever you want), making your own models, then the textures for them, is a totally different thing. It need skills that you can't acquire by yourself without years of practice if you want to achieve a good result. And when you've this skills, generally you don't use it to make adult games.
What the community need, is few totally perverted 3D artists who make so many money that they don't care releasing their creations for free... But even if it's a job which pay well, it don't pay this well. Some already do it, just take a look at all the mods for the elder scroll games or fallout ones ; there's real artists here. But these guys don't seem ready to switch to models for Daz3D. Or if they do, they put their creations in the store, because no one is against few extra money.

 

[MantisK]

Except that it work as the opposite of hiring actors. You hire those who'll make you earn a lot of money, and they aren't cheap.
If we tend to see always the same models (and same morphs too) that's because they are the free/cheap/pirated ones. I'm sure that you can use Daz3D and have a marvelous girl, wearing extra classy lacy underwear and striking a pose that would raise even a dead man... Just seeing her like that and you'll burst your pant.
But how many hundreds dollars do you need for this ? Few can afford this expense for their first game. I mean, they don't even know if they'll make a single dollar, so they'll not use the ones they saved for their holidays at the beach and the Christmas gifts for both their wife/husband and children.
Then, come the day they start making tons of money... Firstly, they'll not change the models/morphs in the middle of the game. Rendering again all those scenes ? Nah ! Secondly... well, people give them tons of money to see them use the same models and morphs than anyone else. Of course, they can spend this money for to show us something new ; they'll perhaps make a little more money because of this. Or they can keep the money for them since they're already pay for these old overseen models and morphs.
There's developers/teams who changed their models because the previous game(s) did good, but most of the time it's to switch to high quality 2D.

This said, there's a third option. You create your own models/morphs. Because they don't appear by magic on the stores, someone created them. But if anyone can make a scene with Daz3D (or whatever you want), making your own models, then the textures for them, is a totally different thing. It need skills that you can't acquire by yourself without years of practice if you want to achieve a good result. And when you've this skills, generally you don't use it to make adult games.
What the community need, is few totally perverted 3D artists who make so many money that they don't care releasing their creations for free... But even if it's a job which pay well, it don't pay this well. Some already do it, just take a look at all the mods for the elder scroll games or fallout ones ; there's real artists here. But these guys don't seem ready to switch to models for Daz3D. Or if they do, they put their creations in the store, because no one is against few extra money.

OK, so those are the why's and why nots, but I want to explore the hows. Maybe simple instructions or tricks to make models? Things that seem daunting to the Dev's, given the amount of work/time that is involved just posing and rendering existing models. Once again, not me, I will have trained monkeys do such tasks, as they so enjoy it.

 

[polywog]

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[polywog]

" if you are good at something never do it for free"

 

[MantisK]

You must be registered to see the links

I know with photoshop one can sample images for painting, is it that easy with 3D?
I could look at hundreds of tutorials, but this is easier and may help future makers.

 

[polywog]

I know with photoshop one can sample images for painting, is it that easy with 3D?
I could look at hundreds of tutorials, but this is easier and may help future makers.
View attachment 25683 View attachment 25684

I doubt Daz has a photoshop plugin, but real 3D programs are better for working on the models themselves. Even Daz models aren't made in daz programs.

 

[MantisK]

I doubt Daz has a photoshop plugin, but real 3D programs are better for working on the models themselves. Even Daz models aren't made in daz programs.
View attachment 25692

It was merely an example. The new Photoshop not only has 3D, but integrates with the new Flash Animation program. Do not know the level of quality in the new software, I've forgot most of what I learned in college and that was several generations ago.
The point was the tech for getting textures.

 

[polywog]

 

[MantisK]

I always trust misspelled pro tips (kidding)
Thanks, I'm sure some will find this helpful.
I know there are Pro Shops for finished products and components, but many need to start with free or very low-end programs.
For example, MS Paint now has a free 3D component for practice before one jumps in with thousands for existing components in pro suites. It is best to practice on free models for posing, lighting and such before dropping the cash. This is for BEGINNERS, not EXPERTS.

 

[polywog]

I've forgot most of what I learned in college

probably for the best. things have changed dramatically

Thanks, I'm sure some will find this helpful.

there's no valid excuse for using MSPaint, except for shitposting on imageboards from your office cubicle.
a) this is a pirate site. b) older versions of photoshop are offered free from adobe.

 

[MantisK]

probably for the best. things have changed dramatically



there's no valid excuse for using MSPaint, except for shitposting on imageboards from your office cubicle.
a) this is a pirate site. b) older versions of photoshop are offered free from adobe.

I'm a master of the shitpost.
I learned Dreamweaver and Flash at the turn of the century, when they were macromedia, even touched on photoshop then. Then several years later I took photoshop again, in 08. Now I have the full CS package. I only do enough to understand how what I need can be done, but not to actually do it. Any program can be good for a task in the right hands, though some take so much less effort.
Still, you must crawl before you can walk, unless you have money to burn, then you by bionic exoskeletons for your babes.

 

[polywog]

3D for NASA 70s-80s, Mil simulations 90s, CG VG/movies -present. Flash was indispensable at the turn of the century.

The right tool for the job. if all you have is a hammer, you can't do 3D. (flash can parse renpy)

 

[MantisK]

3D for NASA 70s-80s, Mil simulations 90s, CG VG/movies -present. Flash was indispensable at the turn of the century.

The right tool for the job. if all you have is a hammer, you can't do 3D. (flash can parse renpy)

Flash is now Animate. I haven't animated anything since I did a spinning copy of my first book in 08 and my Melt Down project in a class project. If I had some things off my plate I could and intend to get back into it for future projects. Right now I just kill time here while I build my new life. I have every tool at my disposal, it just takes a serious project for me to become inspired, and that hasn't happened in 20 years.

 

[polywog]

 

[anne O'nymous]

Once again, not me, I will have trained monkeys do such tasks, as they so enjoy it.

Then choose one who's good at 3D modeling and let him do his magic.
Because, yes, there's programs that can turn an image (in fact, from "few" to "a lot of", images) into a 3D model. Movie industry use some of them, they cost half the budget of an AAA game. There's some which cost less, and you can probably find one around $25 000. But the result will look like an obvious doll. In the end, for a lesser budget you could have bought some high class Daz3D models and achieved a better result.

But, why don't you download

You must be registered to see the links

, find a free human model, and take a look at what really is this model ? It's a shit ton of triangles, more or less big, more or less deformed, to which is applied a, more or less big, portion of the texture.
Then, try to do something easy like making the nipples poke (or don't poke, depend of the model). You need less than one hour to learn how to do this. But knowing "how to" and achieving a result that don't break all the textures and don't look horrible, are two different things.
Just do this, and you'll probably understand why people use already made 3D models instead of doing their own.

 

[thecardinal]

But knowing "how to" and achieving a result that don't break all the textures and don't look horrible, are two different things.
Just do this, and you'll probably understand why people use already made 3D models instead of doing their own.

The one thing I personally hate about doing Daz, is that there are somewhat limited assets. There's like a dozen good models for bathrooms or bedrooms, and most are used multiple times in games. There seems to be less supply and more demand for games that use Daz. Someone could make some really good money if they knew how to create environments for Daz3d.

 

[MantisK]

This is the kind of art I want to see in these games...(it's a Gif that giggles, but didn't paste right)