Others Ren'Py Managing a lot of romanceable characters: Sandbox or Traditional VN?

[BlazingBob]

Hello, all! I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by posting a lot in this forum. I am currently developing an adult VN and have a lot of romanceable characters. I was initially going to release it in episodes, akin to what we see on TV and anime, but I am worried that not all of the characters will get their time to shine if I do it this way. I am asking for your opinion and/or suggestion on this issue, whether or not I should just do a Sandbox game with quests or just stick to the linear style. Thank you!

 

[MissFortune]

You aren't being obnoxious, that's basically what this sub-forum is for.

Seeing as this is your first shot at a VN, I'd strongly recommend you start smaller. I know you probably see stuff like WVM/BaD and others with tons of characters raking in cash with tons of girls or a harem, but they didn't get there overnight. Who knows how many ditched projects they went through before they got there, who knows what prior experience they've had before their biggest projects? When I say 'start smaller' (which is more of a 'do as I say, not as I do' type of thing), it doesn't necessarily mean simpler. But what you should be doing is getting your feet wet. Work on render quality, your writing, and put together a shorter story around a select number of girls. Then put it out there, get some criticism on what you need to work on (while also growing some thicker skin in the process), and then start expanding from there. Maybe you feel comfortable diving into this project with a lot of characters at this point, or maybe that's another short(er) story. Only you can decide that part.

But if you insist on starting by diving in head-first (which is also a valid approach, just not always the most consistent.), then take a look at the games that have inspired you to work on this one. How do the games that have a lot of LIs handle it? Are you able to code a sandbox, for that matter? How competent is your writing? Sandboxes allow a certain bit of freedom to the story (more of a game in a sense), but I think it serves to say that sandboxes aren't well liked as most tend to be quite grindy and not very well executed as a whole. Whereas traditional VNs make for an easier time telling the stories as you don't have to account for a ton of different variables to keep things in order.

Both have their pros and cons, but at the end of the day, it really depends on the kind of story you want to tell. Nobody but you and your story can answer that part.

 

[BlazingBob]

You aren't being obnoxious, that's basically what this sub-forum is for.

Seeing as this is your first shot at a VN, I'd strongly recommend you start smaller. I know you probably see stuff like WVM/BaD and others with tons of characters raking in cash with tons of girls or a harem, but they didn't get there overnight. Who knows how many ditched projects they went through before they got there, who knows what prior experience they've had before their biggest projects? When I say 'start smaller' (which is more of a 'do as I say, not as I do' type of thing), it doesn't necessarily mean simpler. But what you should be doing is getting your feet wet. Work on render quality, your writing, and put together a shorter story around a select number of girls. Then put it out there, get some criticism on what you need to work on (while also growing some thicker skin in the process), and then start expanding from there. Maybe you feel comfortable diving into this project with a lot of characters at this point, or maybe that's another short(er) story. Only you can decide that part.

But if you insist on starting by diving in head-first (which is also a valid approach, just not always the most consistent.), then take a look at the games that have inspired you to work on this one. How do the games that have a lot of LIs handle it? Are you able to code a sandbox, for that matter? How competent is your writing? Sandboxes allow a certain bit of freedom to the story (more of a game in a sense), but I think it serves to say that sandboxes aren't well liked as most tend to be quite grindy and not very well executed as a whole. Whereas traditional VNs make for an easier time telling the stories as you don't have to account for a ton of different variables to keep things in order.

Both have their pros and cons, but at the end of the day, it really depends on the kind of story you want to tell. Nobody but you and your story can answer that part.

Thank you again for another insightful response! I actually did an earlier VN back when all I had was just a mere macbook to do the renders, and that, too had a number of LIs. I kind of fear that I had once again boxed myself into a corner. However, for this game that I'm making, I feel like these characters are essential for the story. The fact that they are also romanceable just makes things complicated as I now have to each give them time to shine.

In terms of sandbox coding, I am not that comfortable with it as of now but I believe I could watch a couple of tutorials on YouTube. Writing a traditional VN is more organic for me so I suppose I'd stick with that for now, which means that not all of the LIs will be present in one episode (do you reckon that'd work?).

Anyway, thank you so much for the help. I really appreciate it. )

 

[MissFortune]

At the end of the day, I'm just giving the general advice most new devs wish they heard early on. But if you feel you're ready to write something with multiple LIs, provide unique personalities for each, and put it all together cohesively with a good story, then go for it. Nobody knows your skill level better than you do.

Writing a traditional VN is more organic for me so I suppose I'd stick with that for now, which means that not all of the LIs will be present in one episode (do you reckon that'd work?).

I don't think there's any real reason to force every LI into a single update or release. Let them come naturally with the story, develop the character and relationships (especially so if the VN itself is heavily story-based). You might get a few users/players whining about how their character of interest needs more screentime, but as long as you can manage to get each girl a balanced amount of screentime throughout the VN, then you can just quietly ignore those few. You might be able to run some polls (either via the game thread if you want control over it or on a Patreon page) to see if there's a general 'favorite girl' from the audience and give her just a touch more time than the other LIs. There's also a few VNs I've seen where they have a "true ending" (so to speak) in which there's a sole 'main' love interest, but the player can romance all the girls throughout and choose one (or multiples, I suppose) of the girls at the end. STWA: The Author is one of the better ones, off the top of my head. I think Picture Perfect (though a harem, iirc) by SuperWriter also does something similar (it's been a bit, so my memory could be foggy.

 

[BlazingBob]

At the end of the day, I'm just giving the general advice most new devs wish they heard early on. But if you feel you're ready to write something with multiple LIs, provide unique personalities for each, and put it all together cohesively with a good story, then go for it. Nobody knows your skill level better than you do.



I don't think there's any real reason to force every LI into a single update or release. Let them come naturally with the story, develop the character and relationships (especially so if the VN itself is heavily story-based). You might get a few users/players whining about how their character of interest needs more screentime, but as long as you can manage to get each girl a balanced amount of screentime throughout the VN, then you can just quietly ignore those few. You might be able to run some polls (either via the game thread if you want control over it or on a Patreon page) to see if there's a general 'favorite girl' from the audience and give her just a touch more time than the other LIs. There's also a few VNs I've seen where they have a "true ending" (so to speak) in which there's a sole 'main' love interest, but the player can romance all the girls throughout and choose one (or multiples, I suppose) of the girls at the end. STWA: The Author is one of the better ones, off the top of my head. I think Picture Perfect (though a harem, iirc) by SuperWriter also does something similar (it's been a bit, so my memory could be foggy.

I'll check those suggestions out! Thanks again for helping, it definitely helped clear things out.

 

[anne O'nymous]

At the end of the day, I'm just giving the general advice most new devs wish they heard early on. But if you feel you're ready to write something with multiple LIs, provide unique personalities for each, and put it all together cohesively with a good story, then go for it. Nobody knows your skill level better than you do.

Just a reminder than achieving to make a good story with this will not be enough.

Once the story is wrote, it need to be turned into code, and it's generally where people discover that they can't do it. Take Ecchi Sensei by example. The story was deep and coherent, each character had its own background, personality and motive, and the narrative was well handled by the author... But the code was a real mess that he never achieved to put together, and now the game is abandoned because of that.

If people advice to start with a small game, it's because of the code, not because of the complexity of story. Simply because it's your coding ability that will in the end decide how your story will be. If you can't achieve to deal with parallel paths, optional branching and all, you'll limit to a VN with a small number of characters. Simply because it's all you can do. And at the opposite if you're good at codding the sky will be your only limits and you can go really wild with your story.
But this, you can only know it after you achieved to finish a small game that will serve to test your ability to turn your ideas into working code.

 

[BlazingBob]

Just a reminder than achieving to make a good story with this will not be enough.

Once the story is wrote, it need to be turned into code, and it's generally where people discover that they can't do it. Take Ecchi Sensei by example. The story was deep and coherent, each character had its own background, personality and motive, and the narrative was well handled by the author... But the code was a real mess that he never achieved to put together, and now the game is abandoned because of that.

If people advice to start with a small game, it's because of the code, not because of the complexity of story. Simply because it's your coding ability that will in the end decide how your story will be. If you can't achieve to deal with parallel paths, optional branching and all, you'll limit to a VN with a small number of characters. Simply because it's all you can do. And at the opposite if you're good at codding the sky will be your only limits and you can go really wild with your story.
But this, you can only know it after you achieved to finish a small game that will serve to test your ability to turn your ideas into working code.

That's some really good advice. Thank you!