- Jul 30, 2017
- 2,131
- 3,348
I'll go ahead and start.
Dislike
Like
Dislike
- Sometimes ren'py games have you grind a certain level to unlock new scenes. This get can boring. Can anyone think of a way to make this grind less tedious and more fun?
- When the text is too close to the bottom of the screen.
- Linear virtual novels that force trial and error learning which constantly forces you to reload.
- Game mechanics so difficult and confusing that you're required to have a walk through open just to play the game.
Like
- I like ren'py games that have open exploration like
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- May 10, 2017
- 2,405
- 18,188
renpy adult game or any game including DDLC which, fyi, was made in renpy
Dislike: Dev who put text font too small or transparent (thinking of Fairy Tale Adventure)
Like: using unren to see all the CGs without replaying the game and check all fork storypaths :evilsmile:
Dislike: Dev who put text font too small or transparent (thinking of Fairy Tale Adventure)
Like: using unren to see all the CGs without replaying the game and check all fork storypaths :evilsmile:
The choice menu in Ren'py can be annoying. You know, the one with a bunch of text choices are shown on the center of the screen.
In some cases you are presented with options that you don't have. Click "Take a bath". Answer "You can only do that in the evening". Why am I given the option then? Remove the choice or mark it somehow.
Even worse, in the grindier type of Ren'py games, when you have to choose the same sequence of choices a bunch of times. I have often wished for the choices to be numbered, so I could at least press 1, 4, 2, 1 to take a bath and eat breakfast instead of having to click them.
Sometimes you are presented with Yes/No choices, that should have been better worded. After reading some text and coming up with a choice, put the action in the menu instead of yes/no. "Yes, enter her room / No, go to bed".
Hovermaps work way better. Don't ask where I want to sleepmolest my dog. Show me a picture of doggy and light up choices when my mouse hovers over them and add an exit button on the side of the screen.
In some cases you are presented with options that you don't have. Click "Take a bath". Answer "You can only do that in the evening". Why am I given the option then? Remove the choice or mark it somehow.
Even worse, in the grindier type of Ren'py games, when you have to choose the same sequence of choices a bunch of times. I have often wished for the choices to be numbered, so I could at least press 1, 4, 2, 1 to take a bath and eat breakfast instead of having to click them.
Sometimes you are presented with Yes/No choices, that should have been better worded. After reading some text and coming up with a choice, put the action in the menu instead of yes/no. "Yes, enter her room / No, go to bed".
Hovermaps work way better. Don't ask where I want to sleepmolest my dog. Show me a picture of doggy and light up choices when my mouse hovers over them and add an exit button on the side of the screen.
This is a weird Topic as RenPy itself is only a tool... How the dev uses it and let you the player play the game is not RenPy's fault. The other game engine's can have the same effects.
DMD and Melody is done with RenPy yet both games is very easy to use and navigate through.
I think what you meant to ask is, "Game mechanics that you like or not like" ?
DMD and Melody is done with RenPy yet both games is very easy to use and navigate through.
I think what you meant to ask is, "Game mechanics that you like or not like" ?
- Jun 25, 2017
- 2,566
- 7,384
That's a reasonable point, but some mechanics are more common (and easier) in Ren'py games than in other games, so it's not completely unreasonable to have asked the question in the context of Ren'py.
One of the common mechanics in Ren'py that I'm not at all fond of is the tendency to use single-item "menu" statements in order to have the player "say something" or "acknowledge something." IMHO, menus should only be used when there are actual choices to be made. Doing the "single-item-menu" item only serves to prevent me from skipping ahead when I'm re-playing to take a different branch. I know some authors do this when trying to do "first-person" games, but...
One of the common mechanics in Ren'py that I'm not at all fond of is the tendency to use single-item "menu" statements in order to have the player "say something" or "acknowledge something." IMHO, menus should only be used when there are actual choices to be made. Doing the "single-item-menu" item only serves to prevent me from skipping ahead when I'm re-playing to take a different branch. I know some authors do this when trying to do "first-person" games, but...
- Jun 10, 2017
- 10,979
- 16,236
The problem is more "how people works with Ren'py". Take what's wrote above @MrKnobb comment, many are just purely the fault of the coder.
Take what @jensonagain say about the text too close to the bottom of the screen. 75% of Ren'py games use the default say screen without even changing a single value of its default configuration. Lazy coder thing here.
Same for what @Lorric17 said about the menu. There's the if thing to make them conditional and so not display the option actually unavailable. They can use a pause, or a little trick to force the player to click, instead of presenting a single "kiss her", "go take a bath" button. And the lazy (more and more used) "Yes"/"No", "Kind answer"/"Cold answer"... They can be more verbose.
This said, you aren't totally wrong. Ren'py is usable right outside of the box, which isn't a good thing when in the same time the author tend to be lazy. When the game engine force you to wrote your own interactions part, you think more and make them in accord with the way you intend to use them.
Dislike
Like
Mechanics is only secondary to the game. I think a better story involves the player more than a certain mechanic.
- When a game is 'open world' but doesn't really explains how it works. For example: "You can roam freely". You spend around X minutes you accidently bumps into the main story line and miss some secret scenes/optional scenes and the game didn't even bother to share with you the details.
- Sometimes 'variables' are just annoying as fuck. They think it adds more depth but sometimes you need e.g. five points on certain character which you can only achieve by doing something that you don't want to see.
- When you don't have either much of choice of your character. You can choose to go right or left doesn't matter that much. I played a game where in the description said: 'You make choices in the name of XY'. Then you are forced to do something. (This is only poor writing I think)
Like
- When the 'open world' has some Quest Tracking system (with good description).
- Extra Scenes by doing certain events this or that way.
- Detailed world with less but meaningful 'variables'.
Mechanics is only secondary to the game. I think a better story involves the player more than a certain mechanic.
- Jun 25, 2017
- 2,566
- 7,384
Oh, no argument there. It's easy to get something up and running with Ren'py. Getting something that looks good takes more work, which not everybody does. (I won't get into discussions as to whether it's capability, effort or Ren'py's slightly so-so documentation that's at fault - depending on the situation it may be one or the other or all of them.)
Another gripe - games that have "mini-games" in them where there's no way around the mini-game. I have dexterity problems, which means that I have trouble completing many mini-games that involve timing, quick actions or the like. Give me an option to skip past the mini-game, particularly if you've really just tossed it in to extend the amount of time the game takes to complete. Oh, if you want me to have to play it once or twice first, fine, but if I fail it several times in a row, maybe offer me an option to skip past it? I've abandoned a number of otherwise-interesting games because I just can't get past some Dexterous Developer's idea of an "easy mini-game to complete." Not everybody has your finger agility, Oh Master of The 83-Button Console Game Controller...
Dislike :
- All the choices that are not really.
- All points of stats that are useless (up when single choice, points that do not change anything in the game etc ...)
- The perfect or bad end idea: Either we get a precise number of stats accessible via a specific road or it's bad end ... I have nothing against perfect roads but not if it's the only one possibility of the game
- All bad end screen following a choice
- Changes to interfaces that leads to incomprehension or removal of features.
- Any mouse click that we could do without ... (with incredible extremes like the "take a shower" while it is the only choice and that only leads to two images of the character in the shower with a text that says he's taking a shower ....)
- and more...
But it's not exclusive to renpy
Like :
- Renpy
- All the choices that are not really.
- All points of stats that are useless (up when single choice, points that do not change anything in the game etc ...)
- The perfect or bad end idea: Either we get a precise number of stats accessible via a specific road or it's bad end ... I have nothing against perfect roads but not if it's the only one possibility of the game
- All bad end screen following a choice
- Changes to interfaces that leads to incomprehension or removal of features.
- Any mouse click that we could do without ... (with incredible extremes like the "take a shower" while it is the only choice and that only leads to two images of the character in the shower with a text that says he's taking a shower ....)
- and more...
But it's not exclusive to renpy
Like :
- Renpy
- Jun 1, 2017
- 624
- 1,484
Not by any means limited to Ren'Py games but rather games in general.
Inscrutable triggers. For example the Milftoon game has a time system of days or the week and hours of the day. Some events are only accessible on a single day at a set time and the game doesn't explicitly tell you when that is. So progression is locked behind trying an action at the right location, at the right hour of the day on the right day of the week. And for no justifiable game play or story reason.
Other games might have unrelated triggers. Buy the fish and the mechanic shop's back door is no unlocked. No connection between theses events and not reason to think one would cause the other by game play or narrative logic.
Slightly different dislike are the overly complex trigger. This normally ties into some form of day element alignment system. So you have many different changing conditions and some events only trigger on the correct alignment of sub aspects. Lots of Japanese games seem to follow this setup. I seem to recall harvest moon games being terrible for this.
Non exclusionary triggers. So if you set up 10 potential triggers that might fire but do not prune from the list fired triggers you can get stuck with never having your progression event triggering. A New Dawn has a terrible dream system that locks progression behind dreams which are randomly triggered.
Failing in the fine balance between players having to do something to advance the game and grindy busy work. For example; If every day the player character takes a shower after waking up should the player be forced to complete the shower actions every day (with unskippable show animation), or just have it blended into a generic get ready command? Do I need to travel through an interconnecting building screen every time I leave my room/house if I only ever go to one location? That is if you always move through a hallway that connects only two locations why bother? Go from room to outside and back. No need to take the same elevator the same hallway every time you leave or enter.
Things I do like: Making may character do things. Give me a travel selection and let me move into locations that have events, rather than simply having the story progress to a point in a situation that then demands a choice selection. Or maybe what I am saying is that I hate visual novels. They are not games they are very limited choose your own adventure novels, with pictures.
Let me improve and get rewarded AKA the old Skinner Box game loop; Do actions, get reward that lets me do action better, do action again but now slightly better. I can't remember the web comic but it poked fun at this with the myth of Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill and having it roll back, only now each time he does it a counter goes up by 1 so it's not so bad.
I like being able to roll back the text in Ren'Py games when I fumble fuck past something by accident or are just skipping text.
I like to be able to skip text.
I like to be able to recover or change my behavior selections right up till the end.
In KotOR you could more or less switch light or dark side right up till the last planet. It's not that I like being able to radically change my path, it's that I really hate getting locked out of something because you need a 'perfect' play through to get enough points to go down a path. Now clearly some events like the purity run are the exception that proves the rule, although you can give the option to undo to avoid having to replay the whole game like in Rune's Pharmacy.
I hate any sort of cursive or cursive like font. Don't do it. No, not even for this one event because it make sense due to all these seemingly valid reasons. No exceptions.
Font color that is not distinct to the background text box.
Inscrutable triggers. For example the Milftoon game has a time system of days or the week and hours of the day. Some events are only accessible on a single day at a set time and the game doesn't explicitly tell you when that is. So progression is locked behind trying an action at the right location, at the right hour of the day on the right day of the week. And for no justifiable game play or story reason.
Other games might have unrelated triggers. Buy the fish and the mechanic shop's back door is no unlocked. No connection between theses events and not reason to think one would cause the other by game play or narrative logic.
Slightly different dislike are the overly complex trigger. This normally ties into some form of day element alignment system. So you have many different changing conditions and some events only trigger on the correct alignment of sub aspects. Lots of Japanese games seem to follow this setup. I seem to recall harvest moon games being terrible for this.
Non exclusionary triggers. So if you set up 10 potential triggers that might fire but do not prune from the list fired triggers you can get stuck with never having your progression event triggering. A New Dawn has a terrible dream system that locks progression behind dreams which are randomly triggered.
Failing in the fine balance between players having to do something to advance the game and grindy busy work. For example; If every day the player character takes a shower after waking up should the player be forced to complete the shower actions every day (with unskippable show animation), or just have it blended into a generic get ready command? Do I need to travel through an interconnecting building screen every time I leave my room/house if I only ever go to one location? That is if you always move through a hallway that connects only two locations why bother? Go from room to outside and back. No need to take the same elevator the same hallway every time you leave or enter.
Things I do like: Making may character do things. Give me a travel selection and let me move into locations that have events, rather than simply having the story progress to a point in a situation that then demands a choice selection. Or maybe what I am saying is that I hate visual novels. They are not games they are very limited choose your own adventure novels, with pictures.
Let me improve and get rewarded AKA the old Skinner Box game loop; Do actions, get reward that lets me do action better, do action again but now slightly better. I can't remember the web comic but it poked fun at this with the myth of Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill and having it roll back, only now each time he does it a counter goes up by 1 so it's not so bad.
I like being able to roll back the text in Ren'Py games when I fumble fuck past something by accident or are just skipping text.
I like to be able to skip text.
I like to be able to recover or change my behavior selections right up till the end.
In KotOR you could more or less switch light or dark side right up till the last planet. It's not that I like being able to radically change my path, it's that I really hate getting locked out of something because you need a 'perfect' play through to get enough points to go down a path. Now clearly some events like the purity run are the exception that proves the rule, although you can give the option to undo to avoid having to replay the whole game like in Rune's Pharmacy.
I hate any sort of cursive or cursive like font. Don't do it. No, not even for this one event because it make sense due to all these seemingly valid reasons. No exceptions.
Font color that is not distinct to the background text box.
All of those games doing same mistakes old adventure games.
Plus creating game content was hard. Even with DAZ and all of those ready to use stuff (go try with real 3d game).
And you want to slow down your player game content consumption to make your game lasts longer.
Grinding was not new, however problem is boring grinding. You are right to complain and you are missing the point.
Most of adult indie game developer was not programmer by profession. Even if they are creating game was hard. Creating game mechanics was harder. Creating enjoyable game mechanics was one of the hardest thing in the industry and many AAA title house cannot reach this goal every time.
If I understood correctly, The Summer Time saga was open the way, they invent some tropes and everyone else try to copy or enhance it this or that way.
Later or sooner someone will come better game. Don't worry.
Plus creating game content was hard. Even with DAZ and all of those ready to use stuff (go try with real 3d game).
And you want to slow down your player game content consumption to make your game lasts longer.
Grinding was not new, however problem is boring grinding. You are right to complain and you are missing the point.
Most of adult indie game developer was not programmer by profession. Even if they are creating game was hard. Creating game mechanics was harder. Creating enjoyable game mechanics was one of the hardest thing in the industry and many AAA title house cannot reach this goal every time.
If I understood correctly, The Summer Time saga was open the way, they invent some tropes and everyone else try to copy or enhance it this or that way.
Later or sooner someone will come better game. Don't worry.
Dislikes:
- Preventing the roll-back mechanism. I don't see the purpose of hindering the player from changing his mind, it just adds frustration instead of making me want to play the game again, which I suspect is the intent for removing that feature.
- Game over screens. There's no joy in that, especially not when you are kicked to the main menu afterwards and remember that you didn't save the game recently... This can make me drop a game.
- Invisible buttons for navigating rooms. I don't remember the name of the game but I didn't play past the introduction just because I couldn't find my way out of the house due to this mechanism. Make it clear for the player what he must do to progress.
- Mini games and grinding.
What I do like:
- Options (that matter)
- Hidden stats
- Sex scenes that have a surrounding loop letting the player choose scenes again until orgasm.
Dislike: "One choice only" popping up in visual novels. Sometimes devs completely forget the correct use of choice buttons on visual novels. Why put a single choice in the middle of the conversation? I have to drag the mouse to the button and click it, since I don't have any other option anyway. This thing makes me completely dislike the game. (DMD has tons of it)
Like: Intuitive human-computer interaction. When the Dev creates an interface that lets you know all the important stuff, like stats, quests, current path based on player choices and other things. Also, I would like to point that I dislike interface with useless information or things, like some RPGM games that have useless menus that will never be used in the game.
Like: Intuitive human-computer interaction. When the Dev creates an interface that lets you know all the important stuff, like stats, quests, current path based on player choices and other things. Also, I would like to point that I dislike interface with useless information or things, like some RPGM games that have useless menus that will never be used in the game.