Most games don't know when to start with sexual content

[Volta]

I think what is being talked about here is something i think of as "pilot anxiety" or "if you don't hook them in the first chapter/episode, they'll walk away. This is something that "requires" a lot of authors and TV writers to try for a home run and self enclosed scene right at the start, for example Dune and the Gom Jabbar, the first chapter of the Expanse and the body horror/proto-molecule floating around the reactor, anime does this too, a lot (Exodia in episode 1 anyone?).

The other side of this is the "don't give away the goods too soon" problem, where Devs think that people will leave after the first good sex scene because they got what they came for and that the character has lost it's mystery.

Both of these points make sense to a degree, however in the case of the "pilot anxiety" problem, if the game is paid only then you don't need to convince someone to stay, they've already taken a punt on you as a dev and most of them aren't going to unsub because of no sex in a 0.01 version, if your demo is free it's a bit of a different story, but still, unless your whole game is a lightweight eroge type meet'n'fuck then why not start as you mean to go on?

As for the "too slow burn", it's far more deceptive IMO building tension and frustration is one thing but the endless stairway to heaven is BS and the dev's know it, if you over hype you'll end up with a cyberpunk situation, which will piss of your consumer base, badly.

It's a bit of a dichotomy, you need to build context and interest for a sex scene to be satisfying but this is an adult game, the point is the adult content so leaving it too long is also a bad idea, what do we do about this?

IMO you should look at the pacing of successful TV shows (not movies, adult games are per update/episodic so the same rules don't apply as much). In very general terms the episodes have an inciting incident say a murder, followed by a slower period where character stuff can happen, followed by an ad break, for adult games this could be an intermission like a point and click puzzle, fetch quest, whatever really.

What then follows is the "going deeper" part, we get more information about the inciting incident, perhaps an initial plot twist, maybe a red herring or two depending on the genre. Then once the information has been laid out, the plot has been trailed, the audience has expectations you can then start to ramp towards the climax and play with the audience. The aim of the next section is just that, ramping towards the climax and building emotion, in something like a detective story we'd be seeing a raising of stakes or a near miss, in a shounen the fight probably starts around now.

This leads to the climax, the emotional or action high point of the episode, for an adult game this is where we can most comfortably use a sex scene, we've done the work, now for the payoff. Note that this is still well before the end of the episode, the climax shouldn't be short, at all, it should have it's own little time in the sun and not be a single peak IMO (read, don't just one shot the baddy of the week). Similarly sex scenes shouldn't be just "all done with this one, wham bam, thanks, next update".

Lastly we have the rap up, or the come down after the peak, the incident is resolved, the overarching story continues, a little bit of context to how this episode contributes to the show/game as a whole, internal thoughts ect. then role titles, see you next month folks.

I guess what i'm saying is pacing is hard and even professional writers do it badly at times, even the good ones, first books in a series are full of this stuff. What i think you devs need to do however is fit the delivery of the sex content to the characters and type of their games better, opening with a sex scene, unless it has strong story relevance is probably a bad idea.

 

[John4511]

No way in hell I'm downloading a game from here that has no sex. That's dumb.

I don't mean that it never has sexual content, but rather than first 1-3 releases don't. If the build up is great it's worth the wait.

 

[John4511]

Didn't DIk had some gloryhole scene in the first release if you went with the DIK route? With one of the side characters.

I honestly don't remember, played the release a long time ago. But even if it did, if it's the DIK route then at least it's a choice. You can chose if your character is a horny student that'll fuck anything that walks or not. I think that's fair. Also it's a scene with an unimportant character. DIK still had a lot of story and build up in the first release and before that scene. Much more than most games do. I also feel like college gloryhole BJ scene is different than a full blown sex scene with your GF in the first five minutes of the game.

 

[John4511]

There isn't a best time to start sexual content. It should all depend on the story and characters.

A big problem is when the sexual content starts, a lot of devs don't know where to go from there. So the pacing is off and is dragged out unreasonably to delay the sex. And when the sex finally does happen, it's all downhill from there. The dev either loses interest or the game becomes repetitive. Sometimes both.

Another problem is when the dev wants sexual content ASAP. So there is little to no buildup, which make the scenes lackluster and forgettable. Or they toss in some cheap side-sex early on that serves no purpose other than cheap side-sex. Use that time for buildup with the LI's, please.

Ye, of course, I agree 100%. That's my point. Every game/genre is different. Brothel or a trainer game should obviously have it from the start. But there are plenty of games where it's presented as a game with a story but then every woman sucks your dick 10 lines after you meet them for the first time. After the scene it goes back to the story.

I still feel like most games don't make it so it fits their story/characters properly.

As far as what to do after that scene, you're right again. For me the best way to do it is introduce the characters and let the model quality do its job with creative angles and outfits. Then you build up main LI slowly and have lewd scenes that aren't sex for a while with possible side character content. Once the main LI deed is done, wrap up the story and end it, but most just milk it bcs they're unsure that they'll make something as popular again.

 

[John4511]

There is no right time to "Start with sex scenes", if you were to make a game centered about brothels and prostitution and your MC is an avid consumer of those services, starting with a sex scene would be a good way to introduce the MC and the story.

Well for those types of games that's the perfect time to start with sex scenes. That actually disproves your point. Those types of games have a perfect time to start with those scenes and it's immediately.

It all depends on the genre/characters. But if your game isn't a brothel game and your character isnt a avid consumer of those services than it makes no sense to start with them immediately.

It depends on the game. Every game has a perfect moment to do it's different for every game, but for for me, most don't do it well. Especially if they aren't game types that you described.

 

[fyl3toys]

I don't mean that it never has sexual content, but rather than first 1-3 releases don't. If the build up is great it's worth the wait.

I hear you. But I'm not going anywhere near a game when the developer straight up states he's not making a porn game.

My personal opinion is it's ok to have build up...in fact it's good. So if your story needs that build up to work, and you dont have sex until chapter 5 or whatever that's cool. But dont have your initial release be chapter 1 and the next one be chapter 2 if you are going to do it that way. To me that isnt build up it's milking. But that's just my view.

 

[Geralt_R]

Didn't DIk had some gloryhole scene in the first release if you went with the DIK route? With one of the side characters.

It's not really the DIK route, it just adds a few DIK points, based on previous decisions you can still be a chick even with that scene happening. Quinn offers the MC her HOT prostitutes early in the game, he merely has to make a phone call and then he has several options to choose from.
This scene, as far as I remember, is required if you want to get closer to Riona (who is one of the options you can choose from), several scenes with her later in the game will only be triggered if you pick her for the action in the restroom and smoke weed with her a bit later in the game.
Things like that are ok when they are optional as in BADIK. And that Riona requires mindless sex early in the game as a prerequisite for her potential route makes sense given her character, the relationship begins as a mere paid service with zero emotions and slowly evolves into something more with emotions.

 

[cisco_donovan]

While I agree that building anticipation is critical, I also think it's good for a game to show something early on. It tells players something about what the style of the sex will be.

Also, anticipation needs patience and we don't always have it. Sometimes players want quick gratification (or they think they do), and a quick start can help hook a player in.

I do agree with the general point though - the storytelling and anticipation in most games.is very immature, a lot of which comes down to dev inexperience and the low barrier to entry.

 

[Robwood]

Porn game, visual novel, or whatever else you want to call it, the pacing is always so bafflingly bad. I've yet to see exactly what I'm looking for: a minimal story where the protagonist finds themselves in all kids of sexy situations. These narratives aren't that hard to write, but damn if anyone knows how to make that.

It's either you open the game and BAM, full sex scene immediately which kills all the anticipation and build up or you play 8 releases and nothing is happening.

Or both. I'll take the former over the latter any day of the week. Apparently I'm in the minority here, somehow, but the reason why I'm trying porn games is for the porn; this must make me silly. What I like about some games is that they give you control over who to sleep with and how, allowing you to choose various positions (mainly in animated scenes) and how to finish--these are the types that I want to get into. Plus, with some of the kinkier ones, like incest, it's much easier to suspend disbelief because I know that I'm not looking at actors pretending to be related and being distracted by all the clues that obviously point out otherwise.

There are two factors about build up that I hate. (1) It takes too long to get to the good stuff and (2) by the time I get there, I'm too frustrated by that point to like it. I hate being teased; my mentality is "get there already; I'm trying to jerk off here." If the girl doesn't put out on the first or second encounter and I can't have the main character continue to fuck her regularly afterward, then I lose interest in the game immediately. The only games that redeem themselves are those that allow you to revisit the sex scenes whenever you want, and there aren't nearly enough of those around.

 

[Geralt_R]

but the reason why I'm trying porn games is for the porn

If I may ask.... why bother with games then? Why not use p-hub or a similar site and watch videos featuring real people doing real things? Including various kinds of roleplay etc and often even some minimal setup or "story"?

I feel VNs should be much more "novels" and not just porn games. Sure, the difference between a VN and your average p-hub video is that you have some agency, you can make some decisions and a particular setting may be something you cannot easily find on p-hub, but if it's porn you're after most of these games cannot even remotely compete with the real thing and the animations look artificial, stilted and at best just "ok".

 

[fyl3toys]

Why bother with games? From my own perspective porn in a video medium doesn't have the capability, or very little of it anyway, to draw me into a portrayal of incest. VN's or games on the other hand can set the stage appropriately for a scenario to fool my mind into the fantasy.

I'm only here for the incest games. I still get plenty of real porn outside of here. Both are enjoyable for their own reasons.

 

[Robwood]

If I may ask.... why bother with games then? Why not use p-hub or a similar site and watch videos featuring real people doing real things? Including various kinds of roleplay etc and often even some minimal setup or "story"?

Plus, with some of the kinkier ones, like incest, it's much easier to suspend disbelief because I know that I'm not looking at actors pretending to be related and being distracted by all the clues that obviously point out otherwise.

I feel VNs should be much more "novels" and not just porn games. Sure, the difference between a VN and your average p-hub video is that you have some agency...

That's the point. I can use my imagination if the scenes themselves are inadequate for one reason or other. Even then, I don't rely solely on porn games for release; I'm relatively new to them and am currently experimenting to see if they're worth it. So far, I'm not too impressed. As far as other outlets go, there's not only the video sites but I also write the occasional short story to get the kind of story and action that I'm looking for.

Why bother with games? From my own perspective porn in a video medium doesn't have the capability, or very little of it anyway, to draw me into a portrayal of incest. VN's or games on the other hand can set the stage appropriately for a scenario to fool my mind into the fantasy.

That's along the lines of what I said.

I'm only here for the incest games.

Me, too. That and dickgirls, since sex games and visual novels can have them doing things that real transexuals can't.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The porn game "industry" is young [...]

Sorry, but this is bullshit.

The porn game industry started in the early 90's and, at its peak, there were an average of two, when not three, new games by day. While the Western scene was mostly led by the porn studios, and so collapsed with them in the 00's, the Asian scene always was an industry on its own, and never ceased to exist, nor to improve ; but yet, yes, in a way it regressed.

[...] lack tools for learning, develop best practices, share information etc.

The error is to believe that there's a difference between a porn, or adult, game, and any other games. Every advice that apply to "regular games" also apply to them.
The only difference between a Mass Effect title and an adult game is the frequency, "intensity", and length of the sex scenes. Same for a series like GTA, that could perfectly have been a porn game on its own, if they had effective sex scenes in place of the suggested ones.
If adult mods for Elder Scrolls/Fallout games have so much success, it's not because they put porn on the game, but because they add it as an effective parts of what is already interesting games. The most advanced, and also most successful, ones, are more on the side of a DLC than an effective mod. They follow the rules of the game, they include a story, quests, and all the expected game mechanisms already present in the game.

When the authors stop believing that they are making something special, and focus on the "game" in "adult/porn game", then have no real problem to deal with the sex part. This whatever if they make an interactive VN, or an effective game.
Writing the scenes themselves is more difficult, but here again it's not the documentation that lack. Everything that apply to erotic/porn writing also apply to the writing of a sex scene for a game.

 

[Donjoe81]

I already wrote it in another thread but can´t repeat it enough.
Probably the majority of games are losing the plot after 5-10 minutes.
They have a good premise, but shot their load in that time and you basically completed the game with 50-80% left and no stakes.
I don´t think you should tease the shit out of it, but at least let the build up make sense.
I hate games that focus too much on the story with little to no sex scenes.
But I also hate games were the MC shows his dick and everybody falls in love with him, without any build up, and it just becomes a fuckfest with no story.