My "problems" with RPGM and "free-roaming" VNs

[Joraell]

And I think we can stop with all that "game" thing because it is not games already. And make just comics or videos hmm ?

 

[Akamari]

The problem with some free-roaming or RPG games is its quite easy to get lost and not know what you're supposed to be doing, so you just end up aimlessly walking around or clicking everything. Its why i think they should always have quest logs or a good "hints" function.

Right you are. One thing I would like to see more on free roaming games is some kind of hotspot system. A little icon that would tell you that choosing this location at this point in time might result in something interesting.

 

[random.person]

Hey guys! I don't know if you knew that but... RPG Maker has NOW a new software released !!

Please applause:

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Hurray!

So in the future, I don't think (I hope) we won't see VNs in RPGM.

Why would anyone opt for an engine they have to pay for instead of Ren'Py?
Besides, it's arguably easier to get a grasp of the python needed for Ren'Py than to get a grasp of JavaScript (which is a mess, IMO).

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

Hey guys! I don't know if you knew that but... RPG Maker has NOW a new software released !!

Please applause:

You must be registered to see the links

Hurray!

So in the future, I don't think (I hope) we won't see VNs in RPGM.

now in future we have lip synced game i hope the dev hire professional voice actor / actress for their game, and the use of java script instead of ruby is awesome and ground breaking for better DRM support and web friendly

Why would anyone opt for an engine they have to pay for instead of Ren'Py?
Besides, it's arguably easier to get a grasp of the python needed for Ren'Py than to get a grasp of JavaScript (which is a mess, IMO).

javascript is a mess? what nonsense nowdays all the webpage use advanced javascript a.k.a AJAX for their smooth performance in client side processing

 

[random.person]

now in future we have lip synced game i hope the dev hire professional voice actor / actress for their game, and the use of java script instead of ruby is awesome and ground breaking for better DRM support and web friendly


javascript is a mess? what nonsense nowdays all the webpage use advanced javascript a.k.a AJAX for their smooth performance in client side processing

JavaScript is a mess because of the absolute batshit scope rules ("hey, everyone does it like in C, let's instead make variable be global even if declared in a block, that sure is going to get a chuckle out of those pesky programmers that think they can save memory allocating temporary variables in their for loops, lol") and because not having variable types leads to all kinds of errors, which I can only assume get worse and worse for large code bases.
That's why, in my humble opinion (very humble since I do programming only as a hobby and as a remnant of my first university degree), Typescript is better. Of course it is compiled to JS so it can't be more efficient than that (probably worse since to comply with the mad scoping rules JS has it needs to declare who knows how many variables to let you use let), but at least it is more manageable for the programmer.
I find having types and the ability to cast between them to be far superior to not having types. It's better to make use of the compiler to tell you when you're making a mistake and use type casting as an explicit way to tell it you know what you're doing.

Btw, RPGM in its latest edition uses JS too, if I'm not wrong.
On that being better than Ruby I totally agree.

Edit: btw, the amount of JS frameworks used hints at the language probably having serious issues. I bet on WebAssembly replacing it sooner or later.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

now in future we have lip synced game i hope the dev hire professional voice actor / actress

*cough* Piotr Fronczewski has experience in Voice acting *cough*

 

[polywog]

Hey guys! I don't know if you knew that but... RPG Maker has NOW a new software released !!

Please applause:

You must be registered to see the links

Hurray!

So in the future, I don't think (I hope) we won't see VNs in RPGM.

I remember a couple of VNs that used RPG maker, that you might think could have been done in ren'py, but
they chose RPGM for it's features that ren'py didn't support. namely ffmpeg supporting video...
they're not your typical RPG and kinda out of place, but you do what you gotta do with the tools available.

 

[Volta]

Dare i say that if you're not using the combat element of RPGM then it's a waste of the engine and you should be using Ren'Py or unity, i wouldn't expect a fully fleshed out combat system that is comparable to RPGM in Ren'Py and i wouldn't expect a satisfactory VN system in RPGM, it's like eating custard with a fork steak with a spoon, you can do it but it's not what they're were designed for.

 

[W65]

I remember a couple of VNs that used RPG maker, that you might think could have been done in ren'py, but
they chose RPGM for it's features that ren'py didn't support. namely ffmpeg supporting video...
they're not your typical RPG and kinda out of place, but you do what you gotta do with the tools available.

See, now that's a feature I can see someone paying for. I mean, only a fairly large (relatively speaking) dev is going to have to worry about implementing video in their VN... although I guess that's mostly for drawn art. I imagine even a pretty small 3D dev could stitch together enough frames to get animations as videos.

(There's probably a way to extend ren'py to support video playback, although I imagine it'd be some wonky encapsulation of some lightweight external video player application. I dunno--talking out of my ass here.)

 

[polywog]

See, now that's a feature I can see someone paying for. I mean, only a fairly large (relatively speaking) dev is going to have to worry about implementing video in their VN... although I guess that's mostly for drawn art. I imagine even a pretty small 3D dev could stitch together enough frames to get animations as videos.

(There's probably a way to extend ren'py to support video playback, although I imagine it'd be some wonky encapsulation of some lightweight external video player application. I dunno--talking out of my ass here.)

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there are many scripts out there that are quite clever. ffmpeg is small, but it's not a lightweight player. being command line driven, it's not easy for your average computer user, and most have probably not even seen it before. you can script it to play frames 5490 through 5520, forward and in reverse.... loop frames, skip frames... endless possibilities

 

[Trasher2018]

Dare i say that if you're not using the combat element of RPGM then it's a waste of the engine and you should be using Ren'Py or unity, i wouldn't expect a fully fleshed out combat system that is comparable to RPGM in Ren'Py and i wouldn't expect a satisfactory VN system in RPGM, it's like eating custard with a fork steak with a spoon, you can do it but it's not what they're were designed for.

I have to agree. I tried

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and that is the first RPGM game that really make use of the engine. You have some parallel quests and it feels like a real RPG and not like a linear VN in the wrong engine.
Played over 10 hrs already and it is fun. Fun loot, nice orb (item upgrade) system, perk system and fun party members and an entertaining story and great pictures.

 

[Deleted member 58900]

Edit: Any spelling or grammatical error is an expression of my individual non-native speaking personality and is intended as a statement for my free spirit. Deal with it ^^

I mean this in the nicest way possible. You don't have to keep apologizing to native English speakers when you speak as well as you do. Yes, it is obvious English isn't your native language, and you do mention that you're German in your dissertation, but you speak it well and comprehensibly.

I'm not mad lol. I just feel like anyone that would criticize a non-native speaker for not speaking flawlessly is an asshat that should be disregarded anyway, and not given any attention or apologies to. If I were to speak in broken German, but still be able to make myself understood, I'd expect people listening to get the fuck over it or not talk to me.

Anyway don't apologize bro, you speak well

 

[Avaron1974]

Nobody needs to apologise for not typing perfect English. We're aware it isn't the first language for everyone eher and even those of us that are English like to have a sniff of wine every now and then and our typing looks like an armless Sloth headbutted a keyboard a few times.

 

[polywog]

I mean this in the nicest way possible. You don't have to keep apologizing to native English speakers when you speak as well as you do. Yes, it is obvious English isn't your native language, and you do mention that you're German in your dissertation, but you speak it well and comprehensibly.

I'm not mad lol. I just feel like anyone that would criticize a non-native speaker for not speaking flawlessly is an asshat that should be disregarded anyway, and not given any attention or apologies to. If I were to speak in broken German, but still be able to make myself understood, I'd expect people listening to get the fuck over it or not talk to me.

Anyway don't apologize bro, you speak well

Some very evil people built missions around the world, and created hundreds of languages.
Their goal was to divide peoples of the world and create disharmony. This intentionally caused villagers to be distrustful of outsiders from neighboring villages who spoke a different tongue. The evil missionaries set them self up as merchants, who facilitated trade, making huge profits as middlemen. Buying low, and selling high between these communities, profiting from the distrust that they themselves had caused.

This practice is not new, if you study ancient languages you'll see a history of one group trying to dominate over another again and again. The oldest recorded languages trace to a single origin, over time and distances some changes occurred, but Hebrew for example "the language of the slaves" only included a fraction of the alphabet, thus limiting the slaves' ability to communicate with non-slaves. As if mutilating their genitals wasn't enough to tell who was a slave, and who wasn't, they were forced to speak a very rudimentary language.

With so many revolutions going on in Europe, and royal heads rolling left and right, the queen of england feared for her life.
She paid scholars to create a new language. Where "old english" could be understood and spoken across europe, as it was mostly German, that would not do. She didn't want her people, to conspire with neighboring countries to overthrow her.
Modern English is not a natural language. It was engineered to be different. To set it's users back from communicating with their brothers and sisters across the channel. By her decree, children were forced into public school, taken often by force from their parents. It became a crime to use olde english, and thousands were killed or exiled to australia. These children were alienated from their own parents, but more importantly from those pesky French who were revolting against their crowned rulers who enslaved them. King James published the modern english bible, outlawed all other bibles, and even murdered the scribes who worked on the translations. He burned millions of bibles, and scrolls, so that only modern english remained.

Thus Modern English was born, a new language for the slaves. Difficult for others to understand, but even more difficult for those who speak it to understand other languages.

There is no need to apologize for bad English. It is the English, which is bad, not you.

 

[Deleted member 58900]

Some very evil people built missions around the world, and created hundreds of languages.
Their goal was to divide peoples of the world and create disharmony. This intentionally caused villagers to be distrustful of outsiders from neighboring villages who spoke a different tongue. The evil missionaries set them self up as merchants, who facilitated trade, making huge profits as middlemen. Buying low, and selling high between these communities, profiting from the distrust that they themselves had caused.

This practice is not new, if you study ancient languages you'll see a history of one group trying to dominate over another again and again. The oldest recorded languages trace to a single origin, over time and distances some changes occurred, but Hebrew for example "the language of the slaves" only included a fraction of the alphabet, thus limiting the slaves' ability to communicate with non-slaves. As if mutilating their genitals wasn't enough to tell who was a slave, and who wasn't, they were forced to speak a very rudimentary language.

With so many revolutions going on in Europe, and royal heads rolling left and right, the queen of england feared for her life.
She paid scholars to create a new language. Where "old english" could be understood and spoken across europe, as it was mostly German, that would not do. She didn't want her people, to conspire with neighboring countries to overthrow her.
Modern English is not a natural language. It was engineered to be different. To set it's users back from communicating with their brothers and sisters across the channel. By her decree, children were forced into public school, taken often by force from their parents. It became a crime to use olde english, and thousands were killed or exiled to australia. These children were alienated from their own parents, but more importantly from those pesky French who were revolting against their crowned rulers who enslaved them. King James published the modern english bible, outlawed all other bibles, and even murdered the scribes who worked on the translations. He burned millions of bibles, and scrolls, so that only modern english remained.

Thus Modern English was born, a new language for the slaves. Difficult for others to understand, but even more difficult for those who speak it to understand other languages.

There is no need to apologize for bad English. It is the English, which is bad, not you.

Even if English is an inaccessible language to outsiders, I still love it for what it is. It's not a bad language.

 

[polywog]

Even if English is an inaccessible language to outsiders, I still love it for what it is. It's not a bad language.

No, you misread that. Native speakers of most non-english languages can easily learn other natural languages. English is not natural, It was engineered. If English was your first language, it will be an impediment to learning other languages. Far easier for someone who speaks a natural language, to recognize the intentional errors, and awkwardness of modern english.

 

[Hadley]

I hate that crap too. At least the RPG Maker Games seem to die out.

 

[Zachy]

To be blunt-- it is not the engine's fault.

It's the developers fault.

You perfectly have the choice to create your own code that adds some pretty good features to your games. And there's literally no limit to this.
I've even created 3D games with this engine (it's a kind of 'primitive' 3D, but it's still 3D).

Most beginner devs just use the default scripts included with the engine and think they're good to go.
And this is a horrible mistake, actually. Because this is the reason why most RPGM games look the same.

 

[random.person]

To be blunt-- it is not the engine's fault.

It's the developers fault.

You perfectly have the choice to create your own code that adds some pretty good features to your games. And there's literally no limit to this.
I've even created 3D games with this engine (it's a kind of 'primitive' 3D, but it's still 3D).

Most beginner devs just use the default scripts included with the engine and think they're good to go.
And this is a horrible mistake, actually. Because this is the reason why most RPGM games look the same.

I agree, but the question remains: why use an engine if it doesn't give you the tools you need for the specific game you have in mind?
I mean, for instance you can do VNs in RPGM, but you'd have to bring in a lot of extra stuff and effort just to achieve what an engine such as Ren'Py does by default, since it's devoted to that kind of game.
In my humble opinion, one should choose the engine closest in purpose to its own, so that all the effort can be efficiently poured into those deviations from the standard that will make your game special. Using RPGM when not wanting its features is just... wasteful.
You don't want a JRPG combat and leveling system? You've wasted pretty much half of what RPGM brings to the table. Of course the other half (map movement, event handling etc) can still be used to craft a perfectly good game, but I still find it wasteful.

 

[Zachy]

I agree, but the question remains: why use an engine if it doesn't give you the tools you need for the specific game you have in mind?
I mean, for instance you can do VNs in RPGM, but you'd have to bring in a lot of extra stuff and effort just to achieve what an engine such as Ren'Py does by default, since it's devoted to that kind of game.
In my humble opinion, one should choose the engine closest in purpose to its own, so that all the effort can be efficiently poured into those deviations from the standard that will make your game special. Using RPGM when not wanting its features is just... wasteful.
You don't want a JRPG combat and leveling system? You've wasted pretty much half of what RPGM brings to the table. Of course the other half (map movement, event handling etc) can still be used to craft a perfectly good game, but I still find it wasteful.

I've used RPG Maker to make text editors, interactive wikis, cookie clickers, 3D shooters, sidescrollers and a lot more... So, why didn't I use another engine?

To put it simple, an old dog can't learn new tricks.
I've used RPGM's RGSS for more than 7+ years now, and every time I try to learn another language I just can't. I dunno why but I can't lol, it's like explaining colors to a blind person. Maybe it's because I don't feel the need to switch to another engine.

Of course I don't know what may be the reasons of the other devs lol