Netori vs Netorare & Netorase

[Geigi]

Agreed. Not just because of money, but because it also means self determination and capability. Capable men are sexy and attractive. Pity sex is not really a thing (though I have admittedly done it before so ymmv).

However in a lot of cases though I'm not even sure many of these may even qualify as NTR. I say that because it feels like in 90% of the games I've seen, the women are corrupting themselves.

I think this happens because when it comes down to it, the person (usually a guy) writing the story or the game don't actually know what women like much less how to corrupt a woman. So the woman reallllly has to dive head first into it and they do the job of the guy for the guy, making it look like the guy is some sort of mastermind.

Stories have this problem a lot too, not just games. Also Japanese manga/hentai/etc.

People want to speed run the corruption part and get to the kinky sex, but I like the corruption part and less so the sex part.

Yeah, I even wrote before what kind of NTR I would like to see... Older, rich, ugly bastard husband cheats on FMC but is bad in bed and she gets to ntr him with a younger, cute, shy guy who gets her addicted to his skills in bed(she's surprised and impregnates her while her husband thinks it's his. This could have a comedy tone.

 

[tanstaafl]

Yeah, I even wrote before what kind of NTR I would like to see... A fmcs older, rich, ugly bastard husband cheats on her and is bad in bed get to ntr him with a younger, cute, shy guy who gets her addicted to his skills in bed and impregnates her while her husband thinks it's his. This would have a comedic theme.

There are thousands of doujins that would be considered "multiple protagonists" if they were games that are this exact plot. Yes, FMC is included. It's one of the more popular themes.

 

[Geigi]

There are thousands of doujins that would be considered "multiple protagonists" if they were games that are this exact plot. Yes, FMC is included. It's one of the more popular themes.

Is it a game or a manga/pornhwa? I need link.

 

[tanstaafl]

Is it a game or a manga/pornhwa? I need link.

doujins are manga. checkout

You must be registered to see the links

. You can search by comma delimited tag there. I.E. netorare, femdom.

Edit: Check the flag by the listing, it indicates language.

 

[Geigi]

doujins are manga. checkout

You must be registered to see the links

. You can search by comma delimited tag there. I.E. netorare, femdom.

Edit: Check the flag by the listing, it indicates language.

I've heard of it before but I didn't get to check it out, thanks. I know there are a lot of those made by women for women. I keep rescheduling reading because I will be bothered if I like it and then wish for a game inspired by.

 

[tanstaafl]

I've heard of it before but I didn't get to check it out, thanks. I know there are a lot of those made by women for women. I keep rescheduling reading because I will be bothered to like it and wish for a game to someone make.

If you aren't used to reading them you have to pound one thing into your head. RIGHT TO LEFT.

 

[tanstaafl]

I've heard of it before but I didn't get to check it out, thanks. I know there are a lot of those made by women for women. I keep rescheduling reading because I will be bothered if I like it and then wish for a game inspired by.

I just remembered one of the funniest I've ever read was about three girls that could make a man feel whatever they wanted. Like, if they sucked on a lolipop they could make him feel it. This one got twisted because they linked his dick to a girls dildo, then linked his ass to his dick and for a while all he felt was himself fucking his own ass. I was rolling. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Geigi]

I just remembered one of the funniest I've ever read was about three girls that could make a man feel whatever they wanted. Like, if they sucked on a lolipop they could make him feel it. This one got twisted because they linked his dick to a girls dildo, then linked his ass to his dick and for a while all he felt was himself fucking his own ass. I was rolling. I'll see if I can find it.

Please do, sounds interesting. I do remember one, but I forgot a name, ugh. I remember a shy girl wished to be more assertive and confident. The twist is that she transformed into a man and seduced her crush and dominated and also she was a top.

 

[tanstaafl]

Please do, sounds interesting. I do remember one, but I forgot a name, ugh. I remember a shy girl wished to be more assertive and confident. The twist is that she transformed into a man and seduced her crush and dominated and also she was a top.

You must be registered to see the links

Found it. That author's entire collection is about powerful magic women doing fucked up things to dudes. They're pretty damn funny.

 

[Geigi]

You must be registered to see the links

Found it. That author's entire collection is about powerful magic women doing fucked up things to dudes. They're pretty damn funny.

Thank, will check it out.

 

[desmosome]

I don't really think Netorare and Netori should be put together just because they both involve cheating, tbh.

NTR is usually more about emotional intensity than anything else. I've seen a lot of takes online, and what keeps coming up is that people who seek out NTR often approach it from an emotional masochism point of view.

We have a lot of people who are dealing with stuff like depression, loneliness, emotional numbness, or even just a general lack of empathy. So NTR with all its betrayal, jealousy, shame, etc, delivers the emotional hit. Negative emotions are stronger. And for some, it's a way of "feeling something".

It also seems to resonate with people who have control issues or abandonment trauma. It's like watching your worst fear in front of you, which gives this weird sense of catharsis. Like, "How would I feel if my partner was taken from me?". Kinda fucked up, but it scratches a psychological itch.

There's even the idea of role reversal, where people who see themselves as the loser who never gets the girl start fetishizing being rejected. So it becomes the fantasy. Which in a weird way, gives it power.

And then you've got porn conditioning and desensitization, maybe even voyeurism. (And this is just me thinking out loud now) I haven't found much research connecting NTR and porn addiction, but there is research saying that heavy porn use leads to needing more extreme or novel content. So maybe watching strangers have sex over and over could eventually morph into wanting to see your partner with someone else, which might be where Netorase starts to come in.

But Netori is whole different thing, it's more of a power trip. Same as it goes with Harem in a way. It's about domination, conquest, taking what belongs to someone else. Way more ego-driven than NTR, which comes from vulnerability.

I'll sound like a broken record for those that have been around. But here we go again.

Your entire psychoanalysis stems from the presupposition that everyone is playing with the mind of a self-inserter. That the story is some kind of internalized wants of the player as they vicariously live through the MC or something.

People who just assume this ignore the fact that less than HALF of the general population of adult game enjoyers self-insert. And that percentage is much lower for the subset of people that are fans of NTR genre.

So why would people that don't self-insert play NTR? It's not emotional masochism or fantasizing about getting cucked. The answer is almost always corruption for this group. B-B-But Desmosome, why don't you just go play FMC corruption games? Well, homie, if netori is an extension/enhancement of the power fantasy aspect of being a chad in a harem game, then netorare is an enhancement of the corruption of the female by adding another aspect to her moral degeneration.

There is a good 20% of the NTR fanbase that do self-insert though. For them, your armchair psychology may apply.

Edit:
That said, I am not dismissing your entire thesis outright. People can watch horror movies and can feel fear, dread, etc just by the vibe and atmosphere, without self-inserting or having any kind of fantasy that they are in danger. In the same vein, people can play netorare games without self-inserting but still take in the atmosphere of the story fraught with betrayal, loss, corruption, etc. Is that emotional masochism? It could also be sadism. As far as the POLL is concerned, this kind of basis for playing could fall under the roleplaying choice. Regardless, bird's eye view without getting emotionally invested on a personal level is the most popular choice among NTR fans. Which will tell you again that people just want to see the female protagonist of the story go through that corruption arc.

 

[HardlySoft]

I'll sound like a broken record for those that have been around. But here we go again.

Your entire psychoanalysis stems from the presupposition that everyone is playing with the mind of a self-inserter. That the story is some kind of internalized wants of the player as they vicariously live through the MC or something.

People who just assume this ignore the fact that less than HALF of the general population of adult game enjoyers self-insert. And that percentage is much lower for the subset of people that are fans of NTR genre.

So why would people that don't self-insert play NTR? It's not emotional masochism or fantasizing about getting cucked. The answer is almost always corruption for this group. B-B-But Desmosome, why don't you just go play FMC corruption games? Well, homie, if netori is an extension/enhancement of the power fantasy aspect of being a chad in a harem game, then netorare is an enhancement of the corruption of the female by adding another aspect to her moral degeneration.

There is a good 20% of the NTR fanbase that do self-insert though. For them, your armchair psychology may apply.

Edit:
That said, I am not dismissing your entire thesis outright. People can watch horror movies and can feel fear, dread, etc just by the vibe and atmosphere, without self-inserting or having any kind of fantasy that they are in danger. In the same vein, people can play netorare games without self-inserting but still take in the atmosphere of the story fraught with betrayal, loss, corruption, etc. Is that emotional masochism? It could also be sadism. As far as the POLL is concerned, this kind of basis for playing could fall under the roleplaying choice. Regardless, bird's eye view without getting emotionally invested on a personal level is the most popular choice among NTR fans. Which will tell you again that people just want to see the female protagonist of the story go through that corruption arc.

No yeah, I actually agree with you! I see the appeal of the corruption, especially in the context of games where there's room to explore so many dynamics beyond just the cheating itself. I'm not trying to push the idea that every NTR enjoyer is emotionally charged, I was more looking at the fetish itself, isolated, and trying to break down why it might hit as hard as it does for certain people.

That said, I still think the emotional angle applies to a pretty big portion of the audience. Like you pointed out yourself people watch horror movies without believing they're actually in danger, but the fear still works. The emotional response doesn't come from self-insertion, it comes from immersion.

Now, whether someone gets immersed depends on a lot of stuff - writing, visuals, music, even the player's mindset at the time. Like with horror, I can't get into old-school horrors at all, I just end up laughing through them. But throw me into a newer horror movie and I'm a little pussy lmao

But yeah, again, I was just exploring the fetish as its own thing, not trying to generalize the entire player base.

 

[xoxo]

I believe some are confusing “self inserting” with point of view. Watching a movie about people getting murdered by a ghost and watching a movie about a ghost going after some people can be the difference between horror and drama or even comedy. When people cry watching a sad movie it isn’t because they’re self inserting. Watching someone fucking someone else’s girlfriend is different than watching someone getting their heart broken.

 

[MissCougar]

Yeah, I even wrote before what kind of NTR I would like to see... Older, rich, ugly bastard husband cheats on FMC but is bad in bed and she gets to ntr him with a younger, cute, shy guy who gets her addicted to his skills in bed(she's surprised and impregnates her while her husband thinks it's his. This could have a comedy tone.

This is my thing also.

 

[Jaike]

People who just assume this ignore the fact that less than HALF of the general population of adult game enjoyers self-insert. And that percentage is much lower for the subset of people that are fans of NTR genre.

Eh, those poll numbers aren't very high and it's a slice of the people who go to this part of the forum and vote in polls, out of millions of registered users and who knows how many active users.

I believe that NTR fans self-insert less than the average zonie (that's what the proportions point at and what a lot of NTR fans say), but I don't think you can point at those polls with that much confidence.

 

[desmosome]

Eh, those poll numbers aren't very high and it's a slice of the people who go to this part of the forum and vote in polls, out of millions of registered users and who knows how many active users.

I believe that NTR fans self-insert less than the average zonie (that's what the proportions point at and what a lot of NTR fans say), but I don't think you can point at those polls with that much confidence.

The numbers themselves were referring to the poll results, although I did state it in such a way as to attribute it to the whole population. But well, that's basically sampling and in a non-scientifically rigorous environment of a porn piracy forum, I just made the assumption that the sample represents the whole.

But this is definitely enough sample size to be reasonably confident about the conclusions, when we consider the population of people on F95zone that visits the off-topic section, and can be bothered to click a choice in a POLL, especially if that conclusion is basically, "not everyone self-inserts in general for porn games and and the percentage is even lower for NTR fans."

Also, this result is not different from other people's polls of similar nature asking if people self-insert or not.

 

[desmosome]

That said, I still think the emotional angle applies to a pretty big portion of the audience. Like you pointed out yourself people watch horror movies without believing they're actually in danger, but the fear still works. The emotional response doesn't come from self-insertion, it comes from immersion.

I usually argue about self-inserting vs not self-inserting, because the general counter-point I'm making is directed at people that just must associate fans of NTR with people that fantasize about getting cucked or something.

But there is definitely nuance to this. The emotional impact need not be about the self. For example, people watch rom coms for the fluffy feelz and the feel-good vibes. Very few would be watching with the delusion that they are one of the leads experiencing these feelings. So there will certainly be fans of netorare that use the negative emotions associated with the genre as a fuel to get their peepee hard, even when they are not self-inserting. Labeling this as "emotional masochism" isn't quite right, though. There will be a spectrum that could span from masochism to sadism to indifference about the plight of the characters (pure corruption enjoyers).

If we can make a broad generalization that might apply to most netorare fans, it would be that they prefer some fucked up story to get it going. And I think you made a point earlier about the person's porn level. I personally agree with this. As people goon more and more, spanning from years to decades, they naturally get desensitized to average vanilla stuff. Some (particularly those pre-disposed to self-inserting) head towards bigger wish-fulfillment/power-fantasy like harem. Some add a bit of "harmless" taboo like incest. Some go into furry and futa and things like that. Some do explore the more wholesome forms of NTR like cuckoldry/netorase/swinging/etc stories. And some head down the rabit hole of increasingly depraved shit like netorare, corruption, mindbreak, or even ryona.

 

[Geigi]

I usually argue about self-inserting vs not self-inserting, because the general counter-point I'm making is directed at people that just must associate fans of NTR with people that fantasize about getting cucked or something.

But there is definitely nuance to this. The emotional impact need not be about the self. For example, people watch rom coms for the fluffy feelz and the feel-good vibes. Very few would be watching with the delusion that they are one of the leads experiencing these feelings. So there will certainly be fans of netorare that use the negative emotions associated with the genre as a fuel to get their peepee hard, even when they are not self-inserting. Labeling this as "emotional masochism" isn't quite right, though. There will be a spectrum that could span from masochism to sadism to indifference about the plight of the characters (pure corruption enjoyers).

If we can make a broad generalization that might apply to most netorare fans, it would be that they prefer some fucked up story to get it going. And I think you made a point earlier about the person's porn level. I personally agree with this. As people goon more and more, spanning from years to decades, they naturally get desensitized to average vanilla stuff. Some (particularly those pre-disposed to self-inserting) head towards bigger wish-fulfillment/power-fantasy like harem. Some add a bit of "harmless" taboo like incest. Some go into furry and futa and things like that. Some do explore the more wholesome forms of NTR like cuckoldry/netorase/swinging/etc stories. And some head down the rabit hole of increasingly depraved shit like netorare, corruption, mindbreak, or even ryona.

And that desensitisation of normality is dangerous because when even hardcore stuff isn't giving you a fix anymore, you go at extreme in life to get that fix like a drug. Just how many men are addicted to porn and can't have functional relationships and normal sex because it fucked them up?

 

[tanstaafl]

And that desensitisation of normality is dangerous because when even hardcore stuff isn't giving you a fix anymore, you go at extreme in life to get that fix like a drug. Just how many men are addicted to porn and can't have functional relationships and normal sex because it fucked them up?

I don't know anything about that, I've not seen anyone get bored of some kink in porn and then try to find it in life personally, but what I am seeing these days is a generation of kids learning about sex from porn...talk about fucked up expectations.

 

[Geigi]

I don't know anything about that, I've not seen anyone get bored of some kink in porn and then try to find it in life personally, but what I am seeing these days is a generation of kids learning about sex from porn...talk about fucked up expectations.

Yeah, porn is addictive, just search online how much it can change people. Everything can cause addiction like food, video games, gambling, sex... I saw a video from a guy who said that he spent huge amount of money on buying porn and that even though he's attractive and have money, whenever he gets to have sex, he can't get excited and it ruins his relationship with women.