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Others Netoria Tactics 2 [Demo] [Apollo Seven]

4.00 star(s) 1 Vote

Dungeridoo

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Sep 6, 2020
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Bought this on steam with the bundle alongside Netoria 1, which I'm a big fan of.

I played through one of Azar's routes through the end of act 1 and I'm knee-deep in a second route on his pov. Both routes so far have been frustratingly vanilla, if that makes sense? One path just feels like voyeurism peering into a happy relationship and even gives Azar a weirdly dominant relationship with Vash, teasing a harem later on. The other route, which the little meter thingy suggests is supposed to be NTR, is (so far as I've played) just happy netori where everyone wins somehow. I mean, maybe Zaman and Shah lose each other but they smoothly embrace replacements simultaneously as if they were never really all that into each other. Azar certainly comes out ahead. Maybe there's a twist I just haven't run into yet?

Mechanically the game is fine and fun, with plenty of improvements, interesting gameplay changes, and great art... But erotically Azar's act 1 routes are utterly dry of the attachment, edge, and sense of danger for potential loss that drew me into netoria 1. I'll give Zaman a shot later on but I am running out of steam.
 

Apollo Seven

Active Member
Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
950
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Bought this on steam with the bundle alongside Netoria 1, which I'm a big fan of.

I played through one of Azar's routes through the end of act 1 and I'm knee-deep in a second route on his pov. Both routes so far have been frustratingly vanilla, if that makes sense? One path just feels like voyeurism peering into a happy relationship and even gives Azar a weirdly dominant relationship with Vash, teasing a harem later on. The other route, which the little meter thingy suggests is supposed to be NTR, is (so far as I've played) just happy netori where everyone wins somehow. I mean, maybe Zaman and Shah lose each other but they smoothly embrace replacements simultaneously as if they were never really all that into each other. Azar certainly comes out ahead. Maybe there's a twist I just haven't run into yet?

Mechanically the game is fine and fun, with plenty of improvements, interesting gameplay changes, and great art... But erotically Azar's act 1 routes are utterly dry of the attachment, edge, and sense of danger for potential loss that drew me into netoria 1. I'll give Zaman a shot later on but I am running out of steam.
On the route where Zaman and Shah stay together, Azar is the one being cucked. He's known and loved Shah for a lot longer than Zaman has. And I'm his flashbacks you see that Azar has a history of the women in his life abandoning him to be with more forward, aggressive men. His journey on Act 1 is deciding to stop being a nice guy and be more like the people he's seen win women. So at the end of Act 1, he's managed to conquer Vashti and is looking to finally make moves on Shah, the woman he really wants. And at the end of Act 1 Safa challenges him to really put his money where his mouth is. Embrace his new alpha persona and defeat her or lose everything.

And on the more NTR route, Shah is okay with switching partners, but Zaman is not. He and Azar basically completely break up as friends. Yes he's fucking Vashti now, but that's only everything working out fine from the perspective of he still gets to have sex. The same deal with Safa applies but now Azar is in a better position since he's already seduced Shah and just needs to keep what he already has
 
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Dungeridoo

Newbie
Sep 6, 2020
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On the route where Zaman and Shah stay together, Azar is the one being cucked. He's known and loved Shah for a lot longer than Zaman has. And I'm his flashbacks you see that Azar has a history of the women in his life abandoning him to be with more forward, aggressive men. His journey on Act 1 is deciding to stop being a nice guy and be more like the people he's seen win women. So at the end of Act 1, he's managed to conquer Vashti and is looking to finally make moves on Shah, the woman he really wants. And at the end of Act 1 Safa challenges him to really put his money where his mouth is. Embrace his new alpha persona and defeat her or lose everything.

And on the more NTR route, Shah is okay with switching partners, but Zaman is not. He and Azar basically completely break up as friends. Yes he's fucking Vashti now, but that's only everything working out fine from the perspective of he still gets to have sex. The same deal with Safa applies but now Azar is in a better position since he's already seduced Shah and just needs to keep what he already has
I think the game conveys all this clearly, and my comments about Azar's act 1 routes stand as a result of those things - not from ignoring them. I would dispute that Act 1's Azar isn't being cucked, instead that he was cucked.

In Azar's POV all the actual loss is framed as happening before the story started, and so while we play it doesn't really feel like Azar misses out on anything or could even potentially lose anything further. The whole NTR plot for him started and ended quite tamely before we get into the driver's seat. Sure, for Azar in-character watching the aftermath is probably deeply unpleasant - but for us dropped into the story at what may as well be the epilogue to that chapter there's no attachment or tension left to experience.

In the Azar pov where shah/zaman stay together, Azar seems to be awkwardly trying to nut up and take charge of his life and destiny. Our experience as Azar here is one of mild angst from watching the woman our character failed to court be happy without us followed up by Azar becoming King Bull Fucksalot.

The other supposedly NTR route, where Azar seduces Shah, has perhaps even less. Now we lack even that small feeling of angst that comes from Shah and Zaman getting along. Azar achieves his romantic desires and Zaman indulges in Vashti. Azar and Vashti come out ahead decidedly, having facilitated the breakup of a couple. Shah's probably got some complicated feelings about that, and Zaman will be upset both with himself and with Azar for pursuing his girlfriend while he was, uh, cheating on her... But Zaman's partially self inflicted misfortune/sexual escapades in this route don't contribute to the player's netorare experience when we're playing as Azar.

I can certainly anticipate these highs for Azar acting as strong contrast for pleasantly harsher lows by way of Safa in Act 2, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the hell out it when it gets there, but that leaves Act 1 with 2-3 hours of mild netori per route before we can even get a whiff of NTR. Maybe that's just the limitation of Azar's route, given that he started off with little or nothing to lose.
 

Apollo Seven

Active Member
Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
950
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I think the game conveys all this clearly, and my comments about Azar's act 1 routes stand as a result of those things - not from ignoring them. I would dispute that Act 1's Azar isn't being cucked, instead that he was cucked.

In Azar's POV all the actual loss is framed as happening before the story started, and so while we play it doesn't really feel like Azar misses out on anything or could even potentially lose anything further. The whole NTR plot for him started and ended quite tamely before we get into the driver's seat. Sure, for Azar in-character watching the aftermath is probably deeply unpleasant - but for us dropped into the story at what may as well be the epilogue to that chapter there's no attachment or tension left to experience.

In the Azar pov where shah/zaman stay together, Azar seems to be awkwardly trying to nut up and take charge of his life and destiny. Our experience as Azar here is one of mild angst from watching the woman our character failed to court be happy without us followed up by Azar becoming King Bull Fucksalot.

The other supposedly NTR route, where Azar seduces Shah, has perhaps even less. Now we lack even that small feeling of angst that comes from Shah and Zaman getting along. Azar achieves his romantic desires and Zaman indulges in Vashti. Azar and Vashti come out ahead decidedly, having facilitated the breakup of a couple. Shah's probably got some complicated feelings about that, and Zaman will be upset both with himself and with Azar for pursuing his girlfriend while he was, uh, cheating on her... But Zaman's partially self inflicted misfortune/sexual escapades in this route don't contribute to the player's netorare experience when we're playing as Azar.

I can certainly anticipate these highs for Azar acting as strong contrast for pleasantly harsher lows by way of Safa in Act 2, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the hell out it when it gets there, but that leaves Act 1 with 2-3 hours of mild netori per route before we can even get a whiff of NTR. Maybe that's just the limitation of Azar's route, given that he started off with little or nothing to lose.
It sounds like you're just not connecting with the route on a personal level, and hey, that's fine. It's important to keep in mind though that Act 1 for every character is build up for Act 2. You're not supposed to feel attachment to any of the relationships at the start of level 1 just because I say they exist, you're supposed to feel attached because you spent a few hours in Act 1 building to the one you want. Azar is the character that has the furthest to go from where he starts at the start of the game to where he needs to be at the start of Act 2. I personally feel the growth of the character from basically being the stereotypical NTR story cuck character to trying to be an alpha male by Act 2 as pretty interesting. He's basically doing what people always ask the cuck to do.

A lot of the complaints about the story of Act1 boil down to it now following the usual NTR stereotypes and feelings very closely. But if it did, how could Act 2 be any good? How could I make buildup to the buildup without just bogging the entire story down into a slow pace? I think it's better that the intro is full of sex scenes and a mini-NTR arc rather than just having nothing for 2 hours. Because the people who cuck Zaman and Shah or Azar and Vashti aren't any of the core four, they're Tariq, Nasib, Safa, and Kamaal.
 

fetishgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2019
407
913
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Okay finished the Shah route the final of the 4 characters and no didn't leave the best till last just picked my least appealing to do from my personal tastes not the biggest fan of Ftm without MtF who knows what will happen later. However I think personal tastes aside Shah's 2 paths in her route are still very interesting from a story point of view. The dev and his team have done a good job to make each of the characters routes interesting from a story perspective. I think I will just give a summary on all the routes and how I feel up to this point.

GAMEPLAY:

I am not sure if anyone has read the review that gave this game a 4 star from the user jimmydiddly but he does a very good summary of how I feel about NT 2's gameplay. It is the only aspect of this game I feel is a downgrade from the 1st game. I don't have anything more to add that wasn't stated by jimmy's review. Unfortunately this has ruined the replayability aspect of the game for me as well considering that by the time NT 1 was finished I beat the game from start to finish about 18 times in total not including my story only playthroughs. I am not sure if I will with this game just don't enjoy the gameplay enough right now.

STORY:

This on the otherhand was the biggest improvement over the first game. I just couldn't really get interested in the main story outside of the relationships between the characters from the first game. I didn't really care for the antagonist and their ambitions and didn't really care much for the twists either I was far more interested in the characters themselves. In NT 2 it has personal betrayals, political intrigue and it really does a good job of having the 4 main cast members connect to one another and how the bracelet influences the ambitious streak in each of the main cast to become something more. I can't wait to see how each character's paths conclude at the end of their stories.

Characters:

I know some will miss the first cast but I think they are better developed than the first cast and have the potential to be a lot more interesting. Not that I didn't like the first cast I just think 2nd game's cast will be more interesting by the end. Here are my current rankings. With brief thoughts.

Main cast:

1st: Vashti (a hot intellectual red head out for revenge will her quest to power benefit or destroy those around her.)
2nd: Zaman (A young man thrust into adventure trying to do the right thing led by his desire to bring happiness to others but at what price?)
3rd: Shah (Her family history makes her interesting in the plot and I prefer her personality to Gwen)
4th: Azar (While last place currently he still offers the intrigue of a man willing to turn his fate on its head I look forward to what directions his story goes.)

Side Cast/Antagonists:

1st: Safa (Never seen a antagonist like her in an NTR game. Looking forward to how her story will play out.)
2nd: Danya (Adorable also who knows how she will be once broken look forward to it.)
3rd: Tariq (Hopefully his relationship as an antagonist will be a more loving one. His rank is based on future potential.)
4th: Kamaal (Could be number one in the future depending on how he is handled.)
5th: Nasib (Doesn't do enough to stand out for me compared to the others but not a bad character.)
6th: Cyrus (Needs more screentime but has the potential to be one of my favorites.)

I like all the cast none of them are bad and I like them all in different ways.

Art:

There is a lot more than the first game and its fantastic. The artist has done a great job love it.

Sexual Content:

Now there is something for everyone however this can be a double edged sword. Sometimes if you try to cater to everyone you can end up not satisfying your core audience and this can be a big risk. I have appreciated the risks taken so far espeically some of the current and upcoming yuri options. As there is a big debate in the NTR fandom whether Yuri NTR is true NTR at all I know personally I have butted heads with other NTR enthuaists online over this issue. Also there is more than the first game so this is is an improvement over all from the first game. I felt it really did suck that while femboi romances were added there was not a single lesbian/yuri path added or futa path. This game fixes both those problems. I am not sure how the core NTR audience will like the content though while I personally enjoy it I cannot speak for everyone I hope that everyone can find a least one path they enjoy.

Final rankings for each path at the end of ACT 1:

1st: Vashti Corrupt/NTR path (Just love how twisted this path is)
2nd: Zaman Vashti route (Submissive Zaman is a lot of fun curious where this path goes.)
3rd: Azar harem route (Peak Azar vs Safa the battle of the stacey and the chad who will win?)
4th: Zaman Shah route (Will Zaman still surrender the throne as a woman or regain the will to create a new future?)
5th: Vashti Pure route (Will Azar who has brought light into Vashti's life be able to handle the chad forged in battle?)
6th: Shah Non-NTR route (Will Shah turn male permanently to reclaim their family's heritage with a male lover)
7th: Shah NTR route (Will Shah become male permanently succumb to their desires and return to their family's horrific history)
8th: Azar cuck route (Will Azar slowly break or turn the tables?)

Final thoughts:

Great first Act and I have felt the wait was worth it I know it will be a lot slower for the completion of act 2 but I am sure the wait will be worth it. Better than the 1st game overall currently and I feel like it was a nice early Xmas present so thanks :)
 
Last edited:

Apollo Seven

Active Member
Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
950
4,271
450
Okay finished the Shah route the final of the 4 characters and no didn't leave the best till last just picked my least appealing to do from my personal tastes not the biggest fan of Ftm without MtF who knows what will happen later. However I think personal tastes aside Shah's 2 paths in her route are still very interesting from a story point of view. The dev and his team have done a good job to make each of the characters routes interesting from a story perspective. I think I will just give a summary on all the routes and how I feel up to this point.

GAMEPLAY:

I am not sure if anyone has read the review that gave this game a 4 star from the user jimmydiddly but he does a very good summary of how I feel about NT 2's gameplay. It is the only aspect of this game I feel is a downgrade from the 1st game. I don't have anything more to add that wasn't stated by jimmy's review. Unfortunately this has ruined the replayability aspect of the game for me as well considering that by the time NT 1 was finished I beat the game from start to finish about 18 times in total not including my story only playthroughs. I am not sure if I will with this game just don't enjoy the gameplay enough right now.

STORY:

This on the otherhand was the biggest improvement over the first game. I just couldn't really get interested in the main story outside of the relationships between the characters from the first game. I didn't really care for the antagonist and their ambitions and didn't really care much for the twists either I was far more interested in the characters themselves. In NT 2 it has personal betrayals, political intrigue and it really does a good job of having the 4 main cast members connect to one another and how the bracelet influences the ambitious streak in each of the main cast to become something more. I can't wait to see how each character's paths conclude at the end of their stories.

Characters:

I know some will miss the first cast but I think they are better developed than the first cast and have the potential to be a lot more interesting. Not that I didn't like the first cast I just think 2nd game's cast will be more interesting by the end. Here are my current rankings. With brief thoughts.

Main cast:

1st: Vashti (a hot intellectual red head out for revenge)
2nd: Zaman (A more playful version of Carwyn)
3rd: Shah (Her family history makes her interesting in the plot and I prefer her personality to Gwen)
4th: Azar (A couple of times his behavior was a little hypocritical and he has one of the worst paths in the game currently.)

Side Cast/Antagonists:

1st: Safa (Never seen a antagonist like her in an NTR game. Looking forward to how her story will play out.)
2nd: Danya (Adorable also who knows how she will be once broken look forward to it.)
3rd: Tariq (Hopefully his relationship as an antagonist will be a more loving one. His rank is based on future potential.)
4th: Kamaal (Could be number one in the future depending on how he is handled.)
5th: Nasib (Doesn't do enough to stand out for me compared to the others but not a bad character.)
6th: Cyrus (Needs more screentime but has the potential to be one of my favorites.)

I like all the cast none of them are bad and I like them all in different ways.

Art:

There is a lot more than the first game and its fantastic. The artist has done a great job love it.

Sexual Content:

Now there is something for everyone however this can be a double edged sword. Sometimes if you try to cater to everyone you can end up not satisfying your core audience and this can be a big risk. I have appreciated the risks taken so far espeically some of the current and upcoming yuri options. As there is a big debate in the NTR fandom whether Yuri NTR is true NTR at all I know personally I have butted heads with other NTR enthuaists online over this issue. Also there is more than the first game so this is is an improvement over all from the first game as I felt it really did suck that while femboi romances were added there was not a single lesbian/yuri path added or futa path. This game fixes both those problems. I am not sure how the core NTR audience will like the content though while I personally enjoy it I cannot speak for everyone I hope that everyone can find a least one path they enjoy.

Final rankings for each path at the end of ACT 1:

1st: Vashti Corrupt/NTR path (Just love how twisted this path is)
2nd: Zaman Vashti route (Submissive Zaman is a lot of fun curious where this path goes.)
3rd: Azar harem route (Peak Azar vs Safa the battle of the stacey and the chad who will win?)
4th: Zaman Shah route (Will Zaman still surrender the throne as a woman or regain the will to create a new future?)
5th: Vashti Pure route (Will Azar who has brought light into Vashti's life be able to handle the chad forged in battle?)
6th: Shah Non-NTR route (Will Shah turn male permanently to reclaim their family's heritage with a male lover)
7th: Shah NTR route (Will Shah become male permanently succumb to their desires and return to their family's horrific history)
8th: Azar cuck route (Will Azar slowly break or turn the tables?)

Final thoughts:

Great first Act and I have felt the wait was worth it I know it will be a lot slower for the completion of act 2 but I am sure the wait will be worth it. Better than the 1st game overall currently and I feel like it was a nice early Xmas present so thanks :)
Thanks for all the reviews, I really liked reading them.
On the topic of gameplay, I personally feel it's a LOT better than the first game. You mention replay-ability being reduced, and while it does take time to buy and set skills, there's much more room to have characters work in different ways on different playthroughs. In the first game every character did the same thing every time, but how you build your units in this game is very open ended. But it is much more punishing if you don't go in depth to it. Your stats don't scale automatically, you have to create damage and survivability yourself. Just the skill system existing at all makes things way more dynamic. In the first game run up and hit people with a sword was your option 95% of the time. In this game you can buff, debuff, teleport around, do AOE attacks, all kinds of stuff.
The EXP system of the first game created tons of problems. You are incentivized to kill every enemy in every level, which is pretty unfun. And it made balance impossible because late game every unit had essentially unknowable stats. You could just feed every kill to Carwyn or something and trivialize all combat. Like think about those last few levels in Netoria 1, they're terrible. And a large part of that is I didn't really have any way to make them fun and balanced because the numbers I was balancing against could be anything.
Having to think about your builds and the combat in more depth won't be for everyone, but the game has different difficulty options for a reason. If you just want to run around and hit stuff you can play on easy.

As far as NTR fans enjoying the content or not, honestly I've completely given up on it. They didn't like the first game much and I was sticking pretty hard to tropes there. When I made this game I decided to just ignore how NTRy it felt.

I also think it's interesting you call Zaman a more playful version of Carwyn, because to me Azar is much more a Carwyn analog. What do Zaman and Carwyn really share in common? Their relationship to the main girl? Even that is pretty different. They can both turn into women? Azar's relationship with his female form is much more similar to Carwyn's than Zaman's is.
 

arobotbrain1

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Sep 28, 2017
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As far as NTR fans enjoying the content or not, honestly I've completely given up on it. They didn't like the first game much and I was sticking pretty hard to tropes there. When I made this game I decided to just ignore how NTRy it felt.
I was surprised to read this. I enjoyed the NTR content of the first game quite a bit. Sorry, I guess we should have been more vocal.

I think the play of shadows and bits of text worked really well. From your side, I'm not sure if it was worth all the people who saw that and thought their game was broken. It seemed pretty obvious to me.

I also thought the feminization of the protagonist added a lot, and having multiple paths the main love interest, and the secondary one having her own NTR route. There was a lot of great stuff in there.
 
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Gerhumm

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Sep 19, 2018
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This game fixes both those problems. I am not sure how the core NTR audience will like the content though while I personally enjoy it I cannot speak for everyone I hope that everyone can find a least one path they enjoy.
Well, the core NTR fans can just watch in anguish and lust as their protagonists get taken and seduced by futas and lesbians. They'll manage, I'm sure
 

fetishgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2019
407
913
233
Thanks for all the reviews, I really liked reading them.
On the topic of gameplay, I personally feel it's a LOT better than the first game. You mention replay-ability being reduced, and while it does take time to buy and set skills, there's much more room to have characters work in different ways on different playthroughs. In the first game every character did the same thing every time, but how you build your units in this game is very open ended. But it is much more punishing if you don't go in depth to it. Your stats don't scale automatically, you have to create damage and survivability yourself. Just the skill system existing at all makes things way more dynamic. In the first game run up and hit people with a sword was your option 95% of the time. In this game you can buff, debuff, teleport around, do AOE attacks, all kinds of stuff.
The EXP system of the first game created tons of problems. You are incentivized to kill every enemy in every level, which is pretty unfun. And it made balance impossible because late game every unit had essentially unknowable stats. You could just feed every kill to Carwyn or something and trivialize all combat. Like think about those last few levels in Netoria 1, they're terrible. And a large part of that is I didn't really have any way to make them fun and balanced because the numbers I was balancing against could be anything.
Having to think about your builds and the combat in more depth won't be for everyone, but the game has different difficulty options for a reason. If you just want to run around and hit stuff you can play on easy.

As far as NTR fans enjoying the content or not, honestly I've completely given up on it. They didn't like the first game much and I was sticking pretty hard to tropes there. When I made this game I decided to just ignore how NTRy it felt.

I also think it's interesting you call Zaman a more playful version of Carwyn, because to me Azar is much more a Carwyn analog. What do Zaman and Carwyn really share in common? Their relationship to the main girl? Even that is pretty different. They can both turn into women? Azar's relationship with his female form is much more similar to Carwyn's than Zaman's is.

Thanks for the reply I will try and explain my reasoning in more detail as it seems disrespectful to the effort put in otherwise. I do see and appreciate the effort but I have played a lot of SRPGS from Disgaea to Fire emblem the leveling up part never bothered me. You are absolutely right that the skills do allow for more replayability but if I got 1-shotted in the dark none of the skills ultimately help me. While its true I never played the original game on hard difficultly I always played on normal at no point did I feel the combat was frustrating for multiple playthroughs.
I feel like despite all the options I am given in the 2nd that I am restricted in the way I play because ultimately if I do certain misplays while trying to do gropes my character is dead and I am restarting. I also liked the reactions to the genderswap like the reviewer mentioned and I didn't mind making my Carwyn OP using his lone wolf passive to wipe out half the map while I did gropes at a leisurely pace. While if I was too careless I would lose so I just preferred the balance of difficultly.

In this game I feel like I am trying to juggle between winning and groping constantly and its not as fun. I apologize if it feels like I didn't acknowledge the huge amount of effort that went into the skill system. While I do appreciate the more versatile style of gameplay I personally prefer gameplay balance more. This is personal preference so don't take it to heart rather than seeing it as me being disrespectful of your efforts in the 2nd game its more about appreciation of how well I felt you balanced the difficultly of the 1st game. I don't like things too hard or too easy and NT was the perfect balance for me.

Sorry to hear that I certainly appreciate the effort gone into making it stand out from others in the past NTR was a more niche genre but over the last 2-3 years there are so many NTR games coming out now that its hard to stand out. Personally NT 1 was one of my favorite games on this site really enjoyed it and NT 2 I think is a great successor hopefully fans will appreciate your vision for it. There are only so many times you can tell the same generic NTR and I just feel if they don't like they don't need to worry they are spoilt for choice on this website.

I see what you mean about Azar and Zaman I wasn't actually thinking of it from terms of personality more about their moral code and gameplay. I think Zaman despite being far more naive than Carwyn and Azar in terms of worldly knowledge he seems share more in common ethically with Carwyn than Azar. Zaman's gameplay is more similar to Carwyn's than Azar is as well.

I just don't see Carwyn being as selfish as Azar as Azar being Cyrus' mole meant he always put his needs first before anyone else and despite his friendship with Zaman was tired of coming last so let his desires get in the way of his good nature. While Zaman sure is hiding his own secrets but they all are so I feel morally Zaman is closest to Carwyn. Upon reflection it isn't really a fair description of either Zaman or Azar so I will change it they are their own characters it cheapens them to just do a descriptive comparison.
 

Apollo Seven

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Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
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Thanks for the reply I will try and explain my reasoning in more detail as it seems disrespectful to the effort put in otherwise. I do see and appreciate the effort but I have played a lot of SRPGS from Disgaea to Fire emblem the leveling up part never bothered me. You are absolutely right that the skills do allow for more replayability but if I got 1-shotted in the dark none of the skills ultimately help me. While its true I never played the original game on hard difficultly I always played on normal at no point did I feel the combat was frustrating for multiple playthroughs.
I feel like despite all the options I am given in the 2nd that I am restricted in the way I play because ultimately if I do certain misplays while trying to do gropes my character is dead and I am restarting. I also liked the reactions to the genderswap like the reviewer mentioned and I didn't mind making my Carwyn OP using his lone wolf passive to wipe out half the map while I did gropes at a leisurely pace. While if I was too careless I would lose so I just preferred the balance of difficultly.

In this game I feel like I am trying to juggle between winning and groping constantly and its not as fun. I apologize if it feels like I didn't acknowledge the huge amount of effort that went into the skill system. While I do appreciate the more versatile style of gameplay I personally prefer gameplay balance more. This is personal preference so don't take it to heart rather than seeing it as me being disrespectful of your efforts in the 2nd game its more about appreciation of how well I felt you balanced the difficultly of the 1st game. I don't like things too hard or too easy and NT was the perfect balance for me.

Sorry to hear that I certainly appreciate the effort gone into making it stand out from others in the past NTR was a more niche genre but over the last 2-3 years there are so many NTR games coming out now that its hard to stand out. Personally NT 1 was one of my favorite games on this site really enjoyed it and NT 2 I think is a great successor hopefully fans will appreciate your vision for it. There are only so many times you can tell the same generic NTR and I just feel if they don't like they don't need to worry they are spoilt for choice on this website.

I see what you mean about Azar and Zaman I wasn't actually thinking of it from terms of personality more about their moral code and gameplay. I think Zaman despite being far more naive than Carwyn and Azar in terms of worldly knowledge he seems share more in common ethically with Carwyn than Azar. Zaman's gameplay is more similar to Carwyn's than Azar is as well.

I just don't see Carwyn being as selfish as Azar as Azar being Cyrus' mole meant he always put his needs first before anyone else and despite his friendship with Zaman was tired of coming last so let his desires get in the way of his good nature. While Zaman sure is hiding his own secrets but they all are so I feel morally Zaman is closest to Carwyn. Upon reflection it isn't really a fair description of either Zaman or Azar so I will change it they are their own characters it cheapens them to just do a descriptive comparison.
I should make it clear that when I have these kind of discussions with players, I'm never arguing with them. Video games are an art and entertainment medium, you can't argue over the subjective enjoyment of an experience like that. There's an old game development adage that players are great at pointing out problems exist, and terrible at suggesting solutions. So my goal with these kind of things is to try to figure out what the problem actually is and how I can solve it. The problem is not "Netoria 1 had better gameplay" because it didn't. The problem could easily be "I had a more fun personally playing Netoria 1."

Honestly, it sounds like your problem is just the enemies are overtuned for you. Dying less often doesn't make a game more balanced necessarily. Using Carwyn to beat the level alone while you grope with no challenge isn't balance, it's you ignoring the combat to look at the sexy grope pictures. Groping is supposed to be something that has a cost to achieve. You have to intentionally do sub-optimal positioning to make it happen and sometimes that will cause problems in the level. So if the problem mostly boils down to Normal demanding too high an expertise of the skill system and good tactics for most players to not lose units all the time, that's pretty easily addressable.

In Fire Emblem random stat upgrades and experience and stuff works fine because you have 30+ units thrown at you to use. If one of them gets screwed over by having bad growth or not getting a chance at kills you can just bench them and use someone else. In Netoria 2 you have four units total for most of Act 1.The system didn't work in Netoria 1 and it definitely wouldn't work in Netoria2.

As for Zaman and Azar, this is another interesting thing to dig into because your takeaway from the game is pretty different from my intentions as the creator. Which to be clear is a problem on me, not you. In terms of gameplay, POV Azar is much closer to Carwyn than POV Zaman is. He even has lone wolf! And in terms of moral code, Zaman is intended to be the more selfish character. Nothing he's doing in the story is for the benefit of anyone except himself. He doesn't want to be king for the benefit of the people or anything, at least not until he runs into Tariq again. And taking the fall for Shah is all a part of his and Vashti's plan which he intentionally is keeping secret from Shah. While Azar is tagging along mostly to help his friends, at least until Vashti proposes he try and seduce Shah.

While making the game, the first level or so had many, many variations made. Creating an intro thatgot you into the action in a reasonable time while communicating enough info was very challenging. And it's clear that for Azar at least I cut too much. So I'll have to go back and reintroduce some elemnts to make it more clear exactly what's up with him.
 

Dungeridoo

Newbie
Sep 6, 2020
36
102
174
For gameplay I agree that the shared leveling system is overwhelmingly better. Netoria 1 had a feedback loop for feeding your strongest guys, which resulted in lopsided layouts later on and could leave you in a rough spot if you didn't, say, level a ranged fighter when you get to that one late game level that has mandatory ranged enemies. Or if you didn't prioritize Carwyn, that final level is basically impossible. In 2 I no longer feel that any particular character is in danger of being left behind, although limiting new abilities by currency does make me feel a bit restricted.

As an aside, I also don't completely understand the phrasing of some sections of the game. In particular, I can't tell what the word "level" refers to sometimes. The groping guide says something about gropes per level, and how locking in a path is done by having gropes reach a threshold before or by a certain level, but I can't tell if this refers to player level or mission or what. The missions don't always say Level 2, Level 3, but leveling is only done once every few missions, it raises several levels at once, and there's no way to tell when it'll happen.

Honestly, it sounds like your problem is just the enemies are overtuned for you. Dying less often doesn't make a game more balanced necessarily. Using Carwyn to beat the level alone while you grope with no challenge isn't balance, it's you ignoring the combat to look at the sexy grope pictures. Groping is supposed to be something that has a cost to achieve. You have to intentionally do sub-optimal positioning to make it happen and sometimes that will cause problems in the level. So if the problem mostly boils down to Normal demanding too high an expertise of the skill system and good tactics for most players to not lose units all the time, that's pretty easily addressable.
I thought a big reason netoria 1 felt so good as an NTR fan (and someone with 0 SRPG experience) was because seemingly simple and optimal gameplay resulted in gropes. There was a clear tank character, and I felt the obviously proper decision was to place all the squishier characters near her to keep them alive. I had a much easier time and cleared levels faster by moving as a group. And then there was the whole set of equipment that gave her massive bonuses in exchange for higher grope rates... Just a perfect little unnecessary double edged sword.

Carwyn alone never felt strong enough to completely solo a level on normal difficulty, so even if I would have preferred to play like that, I'd still need to keep some other party members leveled up to progress. And if I wanted to prioritize a particular antagonist's path, I had to eschew leveling others safely which made later levels harder as a result.

The NTR didn't feel to me a reward for skilled gameplay, it was a punishment for taking the easy path. I had to work harder and carefully choose my abilities to prevent groping. There were consequences for taking the easy way out, however tempting it might be. It overturned all the old lazy NTR game writing where the content was decided by either a simple "click here to be NTRd" button or more lazily, "you lose here's a short scene of heroine X getting it. now reload the game like none of this happened".

At least until the dancer class swap, which completely flipped things over again since the tank could no longer provide protection. It always felt weird to me how going down that path resulted in the game becoming 10 times harder, and now I know it's because it was designed under the expectation that I was either playing perfectly and evenly spreading out experience so every character could hold their own or I was neglecting everyone in favor of Carwyn.

And that further explains what felt to me as a large paradigm shift in Netoria 2's gameplay. Now it really does feel like I'm supposed to be trying hard to trigger gropes. There are smaller incentives for placing units near each other and bigger demerits to taking your time. Azar's 'love' path, which involves (for some reason?) keeping Zaman and Shah together is easier because Shah gets a little bit buffed by being next to Zaman. Vash and her NTR route require keeping Shah away from both Zaman and Azar since he'll get debuff, while Vashti gains no bonuses. The turn limit assassins feel especially bad - I felt like shared leveling did enough to communicate "you don't have to kill every enemy", and the assassins just feel like punishment for not playing with the exact perfect setup. Time limits in levels are always stressful, all the moreso when they're as strict as they are here. I don't think I made it through a single level before they showed up.


As for Zaman and Azar, this is another interesting thing to dig into because your takeaway from the game is pretty different from my intentions as the creator. Which to be clear is a problem on me, not you. In terms of gameplay, POV Azar is much closer to Carwyn than POV Zaman is. He even has lone wolf! And in terms of moral code, Zaman is intended to be the more selfish character. Nothing he's doing in the story is for the benefit of anyone except himself. He doesn't want to be king for the benefit of the people or anything, at least not until he runs into Tariq again. And taking the fall for Shah is all a part of his and Vashti's plan which he intentionally is keeping secret from Shah. While Azar is tagging along mostly to help his friends, at least until Vashti proposes he try and seduce Shah.
I'm in this boat too for sure. Azar just struck me as a 'nice guy' incel type upset that his crush chose someone else. Everything he does feels motivated by selfishness, self importance, and moping over losing something that was never his to begin with. He's quite nasty the whole time, even while seducing Shah he's doing the typical "he doesn't care about you, I'm the Nice Guy he'll never be, you'll see how good I am". He follows one of the more overused styles of corruption antagonist/protagonists, right down to being apparently pretty well endowed and sexually talented. I think part of this impression stems from Azar and Zaman's weird friendship, where it's pretty clear Azar hates Zaman, and I have no idea why Zaman likes Azar. I was completely flabbergasted by Zaman's outburst after he cheats on Shah and she leaves him for Azar.

On the other hand, still from the Azar pov, Zaman just seems like kind of a himbo type to me? He's not very smart and doesn't really have any plans or anything, he just wants to be Sultan because he thinks that's what princes do or something. There's no grand ambitions or evil machinations.



It's interesting to see the mindset that went in to some of the decisions that made one of my favorite porn games, especially the contrast to how I perceived Netoria 1 as somebody who does really like proper full-on NTR. I'm the exact opposite of those puritanicals who find NTR in everything, though, because I don't jive with the interpretation that "all sex that your character isn't involved in is NTR". For me it's gotta involve someone that has a strong emotional/romantic attachment to the player character; they have to feel like they're 'your' something, be that wife, girlfriend, childhood friend, stalker, even family member. Carwyn and Gwen had some good chemistry shown right away and were very clearly into each other throughout the whole story. Even the lady that came later was great, though their obsession was mostly one sided at their introduction, her forceful offering of her affections makes losing her feel like actual loss. And conversely, ex-whatevers are usually excluded from being NTR especially when that connection was severed before the media started.

At least that's my opinion. I know there's a billion interpretations of NTR and that there are a lot of people who assert they love NTR but are actually fans of corruption/femsub/degradation and don't realize those things can be different or just don't care to know. Those are the sorts of people who'll comment on NTR media and go "I liked it but why didn't MC-kun just do all the sex be cool and strong and make all the girls suck his cox!!" And obviously that's fine nobody's asking anybody to come out here and be introspective scholars of pornography games.
 

Apollo Seven

Active Member
Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
950
4,271
450
For gameplay I agree that the shared leveling system is overwhelmingly better. Netoria 1 had a feedback loop for feeding your strongest guys, which resulted in lopsided layouts later on and could leave you in a rough spot if you didn't, say, level a ranged fighter when you get to that one late game level that has mandatory ranged enemies. Or if you didn't prioritize Carwyn, that final level is basically impossible. In 2 I no longer feel that any particular character is in danger of being left behind, although limiting new abilities by currency does make me feel a bit restricted.

As an aside, I also don't completely understand the phrasing of some sections of the game. In particular, I can't tell what the word "level" refers to sometimes. The groping guide says something about gropes per level, and how locking in a path is done by having gropes reach a threshold before or by a certain level, but I can't tell if this refers to player level or mission or what. The missions don't always say Level 2, Level 3, but leveling is only done once every few missions, it raises several levels at once, and there's no way to tell when it'll happen.


I thought a big reason netoria 1 felt so good as an NTR fan (and someone with 0 SRPG experience) was because seemingly simple and optimal gameplay resulted in gropes. There was a clear tank character, and I felt the obviously proper decision was to place all the squishier characters near her to keep them alive. I had a much easier time and cleared levels faster by moving as a group. And then there was the whole set of equipment that gave her massive bonuses in exchange for higher grope rates... Just a perfect little unnecessary double edged sword.

Carwyn alone never felt strong enough to completely solo a level on normal difficulty, so even if I would have preferred to play like that, I'd still need to keep some other party members leveled up to progress. And if I wanted to prioritize a particular antagonist's path, I had to eschew leveling others safely which made later levels harder as a result.

The NTR didn't feel to me a reward for skilled gameplay, it was a punishment for taking the easy path. I had to work harder and carefully choose my abilities to prevent groping. There were consequences for taking the easy way out, however tempting it might be. It overturned all the old lazy NTR game writing where the content was decided by either a simple "click here to be NTRd" button or more lazily, "you lose here's a short scene of heroine X getting it. now reload the game like none of this happened".

At least until the dancer class swap, which completely flipped things over again since the tank could no longer provide protection. It always felt weird to me how going down that path resulted in the game becoming 10 times harder, and now I know it's because it was designed under the expectation that I was either playing perfectly and evenly spreading out experience so every character could hold their own or I was neglecting everyone in favor of Carwyn.

And that further explains what felt to me as a large paradigm shift in Netoria 2's gameplay. Now it really does feel like I'm supposed to be trying hard to trigger gropes. There are smaller incentives for placing units near each other and bigger demerits to taking your time. Azar's 'love' path, which involves (for some reason?) keeping Zaman and Shah together is easier because Shah gets a little bit buffed by being next to Zaman. Vash and her NTR route require keeping Shah away from both Zaman and Azar since he'll get debuff, while Vashti gains no bonuses. The turn limit assassins feel especially bad - I felt like shared leveling did enough to communicate "you don't have to kill every enemy", and the assassins just feel like punishment for not playing with the exact perfect setup. Time limits in levels are always stressful, all the moreso when they're as strict as they are here. I don't think I made it through a single level before they showed up.



I'm in this boat too for sure. Azar just struck me as a 'nice guy' incel type upset that his crush chose someone else. Everything he does feels motivated by selfishness, self importance, and moping over losing something that was never his to begin with. He's quite nasty the whole time, even while seducing Shah he's doing the typical "he doesn't care about you, I'm the Nice Guy he'll never be, you'll see how good I am". He follows one of the more overused styles of corruption antagonist/protagonists, right down to being apparently pretty well endowed and sexually talented. I think part of this impression stems from Azar and Zaman's weird friendship, where it's pretty clear Azar hates Zaman, and I have no idea why Zaman likes Azar. I was completely flabbergasted by Zaman's outburst after he cheats on Shah and she leaves him for Azar.

On the other hand, still from the Azar pov, Zaman just seems like kind of a himbo type to me? He's not very smart and doesn't really have any plans or anything, he just wants to be Sultan because he thinks that's what princes do or something. There's no grand ambitions or evil machinations.



It's interesting to see the mindset that went in to some of the decisions that made one of my favorite porn games, especially the contrast to how I perceived Netoria 1 as somebody who does really like proper full-on NTR. I'm the exact opposite of those puritanicals who find NTR in everything, though, because I don't jive with the interpretation that "all sex that your character isn't involved in is NTR". For me it's gotta involve someone that has a strong emotional/romantic attachment to the player character; they have to feel like they're 'your' something, be that wife, girlfriend, childhood friend, stalker, even family member. Carwyn and Gwen had some good chemistry shown right away and were very clearly into each other throughout the whole story. Even the lady that came later was great, though their obsession was mostly one sided at their introduction, her forceful offering of her affections makes losing her feel like actual loss. And conversely, ex-whatevers are usually excluded from being NTR especially when that connection was severed before the media started.

At least that's my opinion. I know there's a billion interpretations of NTR and that there are a lot of people who assert they love NTR but are actually fans of corruption/femsub/degradation and don't realize those things can be different or just don't care to know. Those are the sorts of people who'll comment on NTR media and go "I liked it but why didn't MC-kun just do all the sex be cool and strong and make all the girls suck his cox!!" And obviously that's fine nobody's asking anybody to come out here and be introspective scholars of pornography games.
It's which side wins the grope dial battle in the mission. I'll change the wording to make that clearer.

In Netoria 1, the groping system was solely one sided, it happening was bad for Gwen and Carwyn's relationship. But in Netoria 2, what your character wants in relation to the Zaman-Shah relationship changed depending on your POV. So it's easier, via the affinity system and some other stuff, to get whatever gropes your character doesn't want happening. The ones they do want to happen are intentionally disincentivized. It's just a different system designed to work better with a less static combat system. The gropes this time around are both things you want to prevent, and things you want to make happen depending on who is with who and what you're trying to accomplish.

As for why I didn't just directly port the mechanics and skill setups of the first game, because I already made that game. I wanted to make something else this time around. Less of a dour experience about your girlfriend getting stolen, and more of a dynamic exploration of a relationship drama from multiple sides. I don't really see the point in making sequels that are just compies of the one before (well, except for making money, I guess). I mean, look at my catalog. I think it's pretty obvious I like to make things that are intentionally very different from each other because I like exploring different design spaces and themes in each of them. If the first game wasn't fundementally flawed in terms of structure and such in ways I couldn't easily fix I wouldn't have made a 2 at all.

I think people who like NTR will like the finished game if they give it a chance, I'm just not trying very hard to court them. Act 1 is mostly setup, where characters are at the end of it is just moving them into place for the excelation, not the end result of the drama. Azar seducing Shah i
 

Dungeridoo

Newbie
Sep 6, 2020
36
102
174
It's which side wins the grope dial battle in the mission. I'll change the wording to make that clearer.

In Netoria 1, the groping system was solely one sided, it happening was bad for Gwen and Carwyn's relationship. But in Netoria 2, what your character wants in relation to the Zaman-Shah relationship changed depending on your POV. So it's easier, via the affinity system and some other stuff, to get whatever gropes your character doesn't want happening. The ones they do want to happen are intentionally disincentivized. It's just a different system designed to work better with a less static combat system. The gropes this time around are both things you want to prevent, and things you want to make happen depending on who is with who and what you're trying to accomplish.

As for why I didn't just directly port the mechanics and skill setups of the first game, because I already made that game. I wanted to make something else this time around. Less of a dour experience about your girlfriend getting stolen, and more of a dynamic exploration of a relationship drama from multiple sides. I don't really see the point in making sequels that are just compies of the one before (well, except for making money, I guess). I mean, look at my catalog. I think it's pretty obvious I like to make things that are intentionally very different from each other because I like exploring different design spaces and themes in each of them. If the first game wasn't fundementally flawed in terms of structure and such in ways I couldn't easily fix I wouldn't have made a 2 at all.

I think people who like NTR will like the finished game if they give it a chance, I'm just not trying very hard to court them. Act 1 is mostly setup, where characters are at the end of it is just moving them into place for the excelation, not the end result of the drama. Azar seducing Shah i
I get that, I respect that. I'm not trying to be out here criticizing like "why didn't you just copy paste the same thing". You said something in one of your earlier post about how players are great at pointing out problems and terrible at offering solutions. Instead of just offering the unhelpful suggestions of Rando Forum Poster Who Likes Specific Thing And Nothing Else or saying "I don't like thing", I wanted to try to communicate why I did or didn't appreciate certain aspects. Hopefully that wasn't uninvited, or at least is something worth chewing on.

Thanks for addressing my posts. I'm a little excited to be able to offer feedback given how much I enjoy the predecessor. It seems like what's out isn't really for me right now, but I'm a fan and I'm patient enough to wait for the meat to arrive. Safa seems great and there's good teasers shown at the end of Act 1.
 

fetishgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2019
407
913
233
I should make it clear that when I have these kind of discussions with players, I'm never arguing with them. Video games are an art and entertainment medium, you can't argue over the subjective enjoyment of an experience like that. There's an old game development adage that players are great at pointing out problems exist, and terrible at suggesting solutions. So my goal with these kind of things is to try to figure out what the problem actually is and how I can solve it. The problem is not "Netoria 1 had better gameplay" because it didn't. The problem could easily be "I had a more fun personally playing Netoria 1."

Honestly, it sounds like your problem is just the enemies are overtuned for you. Dying less often doesn't make a game more balanced necessarily. Using Carwyn to beat the level alone while you grope with no challenge isn't balance, it's you ignoring the combat to look at the sexy grope pictures. Groping is supposed to be something that has a cost to achieve. You have to intentionally do sub-optimal positioning to make it happen and sometimes that will cause problems in the level. So if the problem mostly boils down to Normal demanding too high an expertise of the skill system and good tactics for most players to not lose units all the time, that's pretty easily addressable.

In Fire Emblem random stat upgrades and experience and stuff works fine because you have 30+ units thrown at you to use. If one of them gets screwed over by having bad growth or not getting a chance at kills you can just bench them and use someone else. In Netoria 2 you have four units total for most of Act 1.The system didn't work in Netoria 1 and it definitely wouldn't work in Netoria2.

As for Zaman and Azar, this is another interesting thing to dig into because your takeaway from the game is pretty different from my intentions as the creator. Which to be clear is a problem on me, not you. In terms of gameplay, POV Azar is much closer to Carwyn than POV Zaman is. He even has lone wolf! And in terms of moral code, Zaman is intended to be the more selfish character. Nothing he's doing in the story is for the benefit of anyone except himself. He doesn't want to be king for the benefit of the people or anything, at least not until he runs into Tariq again. And taking the fall for Shah is all a part of his and Vashti's plan which he intentionally is keeping secret from Shah. While Azar is tagging along mostly to help his friends, at least until Vashti proposes he try and seduce Shah.

While making the game, the first level or so had many, many variations made. Creating an intro thatgot you into the action in a reasonable time while communicating enough info was very challenging. And it's clear that for Azar at least I cut too much. So I'll have to go back and reintroduce some elemnts to make it more clear exactly what's up with him.
I won't address the gameplay again I feel that
Dungeridoo
did a better job than I did. The only thing I wouldn't say that Carwyn going off to kill the enemies while I groped at leisure it was more to make sure I didn't have to freak out about not meeting the conditions for certain paths rather than looking at the pretty pictures. Also Carwyn being able to do that was a choice I personally made because the gameplay allowed me to do so its not what I did in every playthrough either it is simply an example I gave for certain routes. Just felt the need to defend myself there as while there is a guide there isn't exactly a specific amount of gropes required so I had no idea I tried to do as many as possible before the battle ended just so I wouldn't have to replay hours worth of content because I didn't do enough groping between characters.

My aim was more to praise the first game for its gameplay rather than to belittle the 2nd it is difficult to communicate effectively online without tone and body language. I stand by what I said though even if I failed to communicate my appreciation for NT 1 well. Not that I don't understand your frustrations as you clearly take your work to heart and I can see the effort and the desire to constantly improve your craft. Hopefully I do make that clear its appreciated wish more developers had your vision and dedication to be honest.

Again when I mentioned gameplay it was more to do with the direct approach to get upclose and he has a more roguish/assassin style to Zaman's look than Azar hence the comparison while Azar seems more like a hunter. In terms of actual skill sets you are right Azar is closer to Carwyn. This is my fault for not pointing this out in my previous response. No you do make good points and this is an interesting discussion about moral perspectives. I am not the author so obviously you are correct in how each character is meant to be so I will speaking from my personal observations regardless of whether its true or not.

Sure Zaman is certainly out for his own objective with Vashti but I still feel like he is closer to Carwyn morally mostly because I don't see Carwyn falling prey to Vashti or the bracelet's temptations of betrayal so easily. Zaman while selfish and hedonistic never seems to act deliberately anatgonistically towards someone he considers his friend no matter the route. Also on their own route where they become permanently female why that possibility appeals to Zaman so much is because it allows Zaman a peaceful resolution to the conflict with his siblings. Azar seems to be motivated by making Shah happy and at no point due to the Cyrus reveal has Azar felt like a better friend to Zaman than Zaman is to Azar they feel about equally selfish.

All the characters are selfish, just because originally Azar doesn't have a grand ambition like Vashti and Zaman doesn't mean he didn't have desires prior to the bracelet or Vahsti's influence. Azar is reporting to Cyrus which from Zaman's POV is a massive betrayal. Zaman made it clear he is not on good terms with their siblings the fact that Azar is his friend at all is proof of this. Shah too is using Zaman to her advantage so she certainly is no saint regardless of Vashti or Zaman's plan. As of act 1 no Azar does not feel like a morally superior character to me. Who knows I could be in the minority but that is how I see it not saying Zaman doesn't have his faults I just don't see Azar as any better as I feel they both have kindness and selfish streaks in both of them.

In terms of practical behavior I would agree he is more similar to Carwyn than Zaman he focuses on the mission and looking out for Shah and making the journey safetly. Zaman on the other hand is more relaxed than serious and is more focused on taking the path with the least resistance.
 

Apollo Seven

Active Member
Game Developer
Sep 15, 2018
950
4,271
450
I won't address the gameplay again I feel that
Dungeridoo
did a better job than I did. The only thing I wouldn't say that Carwyn going off to kill the enemies while I groped at leisure it was more to make sure I didn't have to freak out about not meeting the conditions for certain paths rather than looking at the pretty pictures. Also Carwyn being able to do that was a choice I personally made because the gameplay allowed me to do so its not what I did in every playthrough either it is simply an example I gave for certain routes. Just felt the need to defend myself there as while there is a guide there isn't exactly a specific amount of gropes required so I had no idea I tried to do as many as possible before the battle ended just so I wouldn't have to replay hours worth of content because I didn't do enough groping between characters.

My aim was more to praise the first game for its gameplay rather than to belittle the 2nd it is difficult to communicate effectively online without tone and body language. I stand by what I said though even if I failed to communicate my appreciation for NT 1 well. Not that I don't understand your frustrations as you clearly take your work to heart and I can see the effort and the desire to constantly improve your craft. Hopefully I do make that clear its appreciated wish more developers had your vision and dedication to be honest.

Again when I mentioned gameplay it was more to do with the direct approach to get upclose and he has a more roguish/assassin style to Zaman's look than Azar hence the comparison while Azar seems more like a hunter. In terms of actual skill sets you are right Azar is closer to Carwyn. This is my fault for not pointing this out in my previous response. No you do make good points and this is an interesting discussion about moral perspectives. I am not the author so obviously you are correct in how each character is meant to be so I will speaking from my personal observations regardless of whether its true or not.

Sure Zaman is certainly out for his own objective with Vashti but I still feel like he is closer to Carwyn morally mostly because I don't see Carwyn falling prey to Vashti or the bracelet's temptations of betrayal so easily. Zaman while selfish and hedonistic never seems to act deliberately anatgonistically towards someone he considers his friend no matter the route. Also on their own route where they become permanently female why that possibility appeals to Zaman so much is because it allows Zaman a peaceful resolution to the conflict with his siblings. Azar seems to be motivated by making Shah happy and at no point due to the Cyrus reveal has Azar felt like a better friend to Zaman than Zaman is to Azar they feel about equally selfish.

All the characters are selfish, just because originally Azar doesn't have a grand ambition like Vashti and Zaman doesn't mean he didn't have desires prior to the bracelet or Vahsti's influence. Azar is reporting to Cyrus which from Zaman's POV is a massive betrayal. Zaman made it clear he is not on good terms with their siblings the fact that Azar is his friend at all is proof of this. Shah too is using Zaman to her advantage so she certainly is no saint regardless of Vashti or Zaman's plan. As of act 1 no Azar does not feel like a morally superior character to me. Who knows I could be in the minority but that is how I see it not saying Zaman doesn't have his faults I just don't see Azar as any better as I feel they both have kindness and selfish streaks in both of them.

In terms of practical behavior I would agree he is more similar to Carwyn than Zaman he focuses on the mission and looking out for Shah and making the journey safetly. Zaman on the other hand is more relaxed than serious and is more focused on taking the path with the least resistance.
I'm not offended or frustrated, that's why I wrote that disclaimer about exactly what I'm trying to do with these messages, it's not an argument. The only feedback that annoys me is stuff that isn't feedback. Like "Lol, NTR sucks" or "Woke trash" or things like that. I guess people who just completely misunderstand how the game works or the mechanics is annoying too, but it's my job to minimize how often that happens so it's still useful. Even if you hated the gameplay (which I know you don't), that wouldn't be annoying, it'd be feedback. Whether I take action on it will vary, sometimes things are just personal preference and not things that cna be improved. But often when people dislike things there's good reasons that should be acted upon. I'm not browsing this forum looking for non-stop praise, I want feedback I can use to improve the game.

I am not the author so obviously you are correct in how each character is meant to be so I will speaking from my personal observations regardless of whether its true or not.
What I intend and what your receive and interpret can be completely different if I don't communicate it properly within the game. I've written dozens of intros for Netoria 2 trying to strike the right balance of getting across the scenario and characters properly and getting the to actual game fast enough that you actually bother to read it and it doesn't get boring/annoying. So knowing where there's incongruity between what I want people to think of the characters as and what they actually do is very useful.

It's clear that a few of the scenes I cut needed to be added back in. Azar's relationships with the other characters isn't getting enough time at the start. So I'll edit stuff and rearrange stuff and hopefully the narrative will be improved.
 

fetishgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2019
407
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I'm not offended or frustrated, that's why I wrote that disclaimer about exactly what I'm trying to do with these messages, it's not an argument. The only feedback that annoys me is stuff that isn't feedback. Like "Lol, NTR sucks" or "Woke trash" or things like that. I guess people who just completely misunderstand how the game works or the mechanics is annoying too, but it's my job to minimize how often that happens so it's still useful. Even if you hated the gameplay (which I know you don't), that wouldn't be annoying, it'd be feedback. Whether I take action on it will vary, sometimes things are just personal preference and not things that cna be improved. But often when people dislike things there's good reasons that should be acted upon. I'm not browsing this forum looking for non-stop praise, I want feedback I can use to improve the game.


What I intend and what your receive and interpret can be completely different if I don't communicate it properly within the game. I've written dozens of intros for Netoria 2 trying to strike the right balance of getting across the scenario and characters properly and getting the to actual game fast enough that you actually bother to read it and it doesn't get boring/annoying. So knowing where there's incongruity between what I want people to think of the characters as and what they actually do is very useful.

It's clear that a few of the scenes I cut needed to be added back in. Azar's relationships with the other characters isn't getting enough time at the start. So I'll edit stuff and rearrange stuff and hopefully the narrative will be improved.
I do write a lot when I ramble but I do hope I helped in my own way. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to read my first impressions and don't intend to occupy anymore of your time as the dev. Ultimately I am just one person as more feedback comes in hopefully they can give clearer feedback so you can decide on what direction you want to take the gameplay.

I completely agree with you not that I ever wrote in any entertainment industry but I did have some of my past work misinterpreted by the reader so I know how that can feel. Just out of curiosity how do you want the 4 main cast members to be portrayed? I like the cast a lot and I like how they all have their own goals they pursue. They are all multi-faceted cast and I like the fact they all have their faults in their own way. I don't think the narrative needs improvement as I feel that would be a negative way of looking at what you have achieved. I think what you have done has been an improvement over the first game and I can see how you have done a good job with balancing fun character dynamics and an interesting story.

If you personally feel you want to make it clear that Azar is to be seen in a certain way is crucial to the plot then go for it but again I am just one person others may feel differently about Azar than I do. I would certainly wait for more feedback if possible before making a final decision as readers/players can always interpret things in a different way from the author. As someone who has been a One piece fan for years it always amazing me how many different points of view you can have on the same chapter from different people.
 
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