Ren'Py New dev, looking for feedback/input

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

Hi everyone!

I'm Maddie, 34 years old and new to the world of game dev. I've been playing nsfw games for a long, long time, and always enjoyed them, even if most are from a male pov.
However, being unemployed atm, and not able to work due to medical issues, I decided to pick up Ren'Py and try to learn to make a NSFW game from a female pov.
I've got quite a few ideas already, and I was hoping on some feedback?

1. I've been working on a visual novel, the pretty typical kind you see in NSFW games, with the 3d models.
The main tags are incest/rape/drugging/blackmail/corruption.
You play as Nina (customizable name) and shortly into the game, you find out that your brothers had been drugging and raping you for a short while now, almost every night.
Through your choices you can make Nina go along with it though unwilling, she can stand up to them, accept willingly, or even actively join in and pull in more men.

I had planned on releasing the demo at the end of January, however, I came to the realisation that what I had in mind for the full game, is simply not doable for me, as a single creator.
And so I'm thinking of changing it from a VN to a more, sandbox type of game. Where you choose to go, build stats (purity/sluttiness/etc), unlock new scenes by reaching certain stat points.
So, the end idea for the game stays the same, but the gameplay style changes.

Thoughts on such type of game with those tags?
(If people are interested I can upload the unfinished demo. The story and choices are finished, only the visuals are not finished so you get a black background at some point.)

2. How much interest is there for female pov nsfw games with tags such as incest, rape, stalking, monster fucking, free/public use, etc.?

(edit, forgot to add this)
3.My initial idea actually came from playing those romance stories on cellphone games such as Choices, Romance, MeChat, etc.
I liked the base idea of it, choose a 'book', create your own character, and have maybe up to 3 love interests.
But I wanted the stories more lewd, and, I hate micro transactions. So I thought to create lewd female pov stories that are affordable. So instead of releasing the 'book' for free and include micro transactions, I'd sell the 'book' cheap and have all options freely available.
But somewhere down the line it turned into a full on Visual Novel, and so now I'm a little unsure of what to do?
Anyone got any input on this?

 

[clowns234]

Make the game you want to make. Yes, some people will complain but that is likely no matter what game you create.
If you already have a VN, you could just add some choices to give alternate paths. I wouldn't make it sandbox just for the sake of it being sandbox.

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

Make the game you want to make. Yes, some people will complain but that is likely no matter what game you create.
If you already have a VN, you could just add some choices to give alternate paths. I wouldn't make it sandbox just for the sake of it being sandbox.

Thank you for your reply.
I do understand I can't create something that gets no complains, that is not really what I am worried about though. I don't technically 'have' a VN yet, I have a start. But as I was working on the visuals for the demo, I came to the realisation that those would take way, way too long to make for me, as a new, single dev.

That is why I consider switching to Sandbox style, which technically does line up more with the initial spark of interest concerning point 3 in my first post.
I feel like a Sandbox style is more... do-able? For just lil ole me?

 

[Jack Madrigal]

New female dev

Nothing good will come out of you soliciting that kind of attention. I don't mean this to be an asshole but who you are is irrelevant,

I came to the realisation that what I had in mind for the full game, is simply not doable for me, as a single creator.

could you please be more specific about that ?

2. How much interest is there for female pov nsfw games with tags such as incest, rape, stalking, monster fucking, free/public use, etc.?

I don't think you should care much about that, if you want to create something just do it, I can most definitely assure you that whatever you do, if it's well executed, you will have a good reception, I'm not convinced that the "nobody care so why bother" is a good stance to have.

you first interest should be to express your creativity.

That is why I consider switching to Sandbox style, which technically does line up more with the initial spark of interest concerning point 3 in my first post.
I feel like a Sandbox style is more... do-able? For just lil ole me?

sandbox are way more complicated then a VN, that is, if you want to do it right of course.

so the question is: what kind of gameplay you have in mind when you say "sandbox" ? because i'm afraid you will have to make a lot of concession on the narrative aspect of your game if you go that route,

I have a conversation with another dev on this subject, and I can't help but think there's a lot of similarities with your two projects, i'll leave you a link if it's of any interest to you: https://f95zone.to/threads/looking-for-people-to-discuss-my-story-with.190077/

 

[peterppp]

so the question is: what kind of gameplay you have in mind when you say "sandbox" ? because i'm afraid you will have to make a lot of concession on the narrative aspect of your game if you go that route,

that's why i think her intention is to cut out much of the story and make it more like hunting points in between sex scenes.

MaddieMakesLewdGames, if that's the way you want to reduce the amount of renders, i can see it. it will be more complicated to code, but if you make it simple it shouldn't be a huge difference

 

[shabadu]

Thoughts on such type of game with those tags?

Not my cup of tea, but in general those tag combos seem to popular enough? For example, something kind of sort of similar would be A Wife and Mother, which has over 50 million threadviews and over 1,500 supporters on patreon. It's also been going since at least 2017, so there is that, too.

That being said, I'll echo what clowns234 said - don't worry so much about if your game will be popular, or if a specific tag combo will work, or any of that. Your own personal care and passion for the project is what will make or break it.

I feel like a Sandbox style is more... do-able? For just lil ole me?

It really, really depends on what exactly you want to do and how you want to go about it. If the sheer amount of renders/art assets needed for what you have in mind as a plain VN is too much, I kind of doubt switching it to a sandbox will really alleviate that on its own.

How exactly are you doing things now? Maybe you should put up your demo so we can see. Also, is there a specific example you have in mind when you say sandbox style that you can point us to?

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

Nothing good will come out of you soliciting that kind of attention. I don't mean this to be an asshole but who you are is irrelevant

I understand what you mean and no offense taken.
I mention it because generally speaking, most nsfw games are created by men with a male pov. And although I enjoy those games, as a woman speaking from my personal experience, I want more nsfw games by women, for women.
So I don't mention it with the intent to gain 'that' kind of attention, but to make it easier for other women to find my content.

could you please be more specific about that ?

Of course. I had/have great plans for the story/gameplay. But I want a lot of visuals to really make the story come alive? Like, I've played VN's in which the image was just 1 still throughout a whole conversation and it just don't sit right with me.
With me being new to all this, I had no idea how time draining VaM is.
With how much story I have planned, I feel extremely overwhelmed just thinking about how long it will take me to finish the visuals for just the first chapter.

you first interest should be to express your creativity

That is my first interest yes, I decided to pick this up to learn because I noticed that the kinks I am interested in don't have a lot of content games-wise. And I used to write nsfw fanfics so I figured I'd give this a shot... Fingers crossed

so the question is: what kind of gameplay you have in mind when you say "sandbox" ? because i'm afraid you will have to make a lot of concession on the narrative aspect of your game if you go that route

I'm thinking something like, a combination of VN and sandbox? Like, the game would start with a vn style intro, getting to know the protagonist and her situation. Then once that's all established, move on to a sandbox style where you choose where to go. For example, you could choose to go to your bedroom and stream on a porn cam site and you'd gain slut points. Then when reaching a certain amount of points, it would unlock new scenes, until eventually, locking into that route.

Thank you for your input and I will take a look at the thread you linked.

 

[Sylvester00007]

Please do add a Parent (mostly Lesbian with mom) route too

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

that's why i think her intention is to cut out much of the story and make it more like hunting points in between sex scenes.

Yes, that is indeed what I was thinking. I feel like I put the bar too high for myself for a first game.

How exactly are you doing things now? Maybe you should put up your demo so we can see. Also, is there a specific example you have in mind when you say sandbox style that you can point us to?

I have followed the guide on posting my demo in the Games section and posted it, not sure how long it will take.

As for an example of what I have I mind,

You must be registered to see the links

is what I consider 'sandbox'. I would like to combine this aspect with the VN aspect and hopefully end up with a good flow between reading a story and feeling like you're actually playing a game

 

[Jack Madrigal]

well, sandbox imply that it's all up to the player to make it's own fun, you provide the canvas, the brush and the paint, and they do whatever they want with it, in that aspect you have to imagine any possible choices / actions / consequences.

It may sound silly but some peoples have "pure" play-through and their fun is to avoid corruption, this should be taken into account.

for your project specifically I think you could benefit a lot from a more "open-world rpg" approach, so your character actually matter, you have an already established narrative and you give the players "options" in an already established context.

The way you can do this is to keep "the main story" on a railway, and progressively add side stories that doesn't interfere with the main narrative, so you give the players the illusion of freedom by simply offering them a lot of things to do.

the problem with "corruption" mechanics is that if you fallow a progression in a "sandbox" you have to imagine that players will proceed through the game THEIR own way which may lead to some incoherence ex: "why is she shy giving him a blowjob at the cinema when she already had public gangbangs in another story line"

if you have a more determined approach with your character established as "being open minded" then everything your character will agree to from that point on will make logical sense.

I feel like I put the bar too high for myself for a first game.

don't think that, what you need is a clear direction, define a cast of characters and build the world around them, have clear distinctions between the different tropes and don't make them interfere with each other, that way you give players the illusion of freedom so they don't have to do X and Y to have access to Z, and you allow yourself a lot of room for maneuver.

I see you're working with Virt-a-mate, have you considered other options ? the screen capture look a bit raw, what kind of editing are you doing ?

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

in that aspect you have to imagine any possible choices / actions / consequences.

I actually had this in mind already, multiple routes and endings depending on the players choices. Which is why I ran into the 'problem' of feeling overwhelmed with the amount of renders I would have to make for all those different routes.

some peoples have "pure" play-through

Also have a route for this

don't think that, what you need is a clear direction, define a cast of characters and build the world around them, have clear distinctions between the different tropes and don't make them interfere with each other, that way you give players the illusion of freedom so they don't have to do X and Y to have access to Z, and you allow yourself a lot of room for maneuver.

I see you're working with Virt-a-mate, have you considered other options ? the screen capture look a bit raw, what kind of editing are you doing ?

I do have direction, different routes and endings mostly worked out already actually, I can see in my head what I want it to be like. But being new to all this, I think I underestimated the amount of time rendering all those visuals would take

I do use VaM indeed and I agree. I am not particularly pleased with the screen captures either, they did not end up looking the way I hoped. I was planning on editing them before the release of the demo, but since Im considering changing the gamestyle I left it as is for now.
I would consider other options yes, do you have suggestions?

 

[peterppp]

I actually had this in mind already, multiple routes and endings depending on the players choices. Which is why I ran into the 'problem' of feeling overwhelmed with the amount of renders I would have to make for all those different routes.

you only talk about the visuals being an issue, but don't underestimate the complexity of making games that aren't linear. making a kinetic novel where the player just clicks through the game can be child's play compared to making a game where you have actual choices on how and when to progress the game. if you add sandbox elements to it, it will require additional code and may increase the complexity further

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

you only talk about the visuals being an issue, but don't underestimate the complexity of making games that aren't linear. making a kinetic novel where the player just clicks through the game can be child's play compared to making a game where you have actual choices on how and when to progress the game. if you add sandbox elements to it, it will require additional code and may increase the complexity further

Thank you for your input.
I do know that making the game more sandboxy as opposed to (kinetic) vn would make coding it more complex, but I don't mind that as much. I really enjoy (learning) coding actually, but sitting down and making scenes in VaM for a full work day is somehow a lot more draining for me.

 

[Jack Madrigal]

Which is why I ran into the 'problem' of feeling overwhelmed with the amount of renders I would have to make for all those different routes.

which is why I advised against a "sandbox", but you do you.

I am not particularly pleased with the screen captures either

I don't think they are disgusting, you can have a cohesive "visual identity" if everything is made in the same style.

Since you want the player to have a lot to look at, you have to make sacrifices on one aspect or another:

you can commission high quality render or artworks, but there will be few, and it's gonna be expensive, or you can drop the quality for quantity and do it all yourself on top of all the work you already have to do, sadly you can't have both (quality and quantity), unless you plan on developing the game for the next 10 years.

which is why I talked about editing, if you continue to use VaM (since you're already familiar with the tool), you can use the magic of "post-processing"

it's a simple and efficient way to keep the cost low and provide your game with serviceable illustrations.

If you'd allow me a simple suggestion to give your render a lot of style: de-saturate your picture, perhaps add inking to your characters contours, add some light bokeh (background blur) and with just that you can have visually pleasing renders



it's just for the sake of giving you an example but with some light editing in 5 minutes you can really give a lot of personality to a simple VaM capture, you can even go further, full on "sin city" style.

Now I've never being a big fan of 3d pictures, whatever software you're using there's limitations, to the clothing, shapes etc.
nothing beat handmade artwork. ^^

 

[shabadu]

As for an example of what I have I mind,

You must be registered to see the links

is what I consider 'sandbox'. I would like to combine this aspect with the VN aspect and hopefully end up with a good flow between reading a story and feeling like you're actually playing a game

Ok, I played through your demo as well as a bit of your sandbox example. I've actually seen that game around before but I never realized it was HTML and not Renpy.

Anyway, I feel like I can see what you mean when you say going sandbox will help cut down on art assets. I actually think that's not a bad idea, all told - set up a decent loop that's mostly test-based with specific cut-in images to help sell what's going on, then go big for big events. I'm personally a huge fan of games and devs doing things outside of what has become the norm of shitting out a meaningless uncompressed HD render for every other line of dialog just because. It's ok to be economical with your time and effort, focus it on what's important to the story and not just a crutch to lean on because your story sucks. Sorry, I'm kind of getting away from myself.

I'm thinking something like, a combination of VN and sandbox? Like, the game would start with a vn style intro, getting to know the protagonist and her situation. Then once that's all established, move on to a sandbox style where you choose where to go. For example, you could choose to go to your bedroom and stream on a porn cam site and you'd gain slut points. Then when reaching a certain amount of points, it would unlock new scenes, until eventually, locking into that route.

This all sounds perfectly fine to me. There's plenty of games that follow this format, or at least something very similar. All in all, I'd say you have a pretty good idea on how to handle things. It'll be hard, it'll feel overwhelming, and it will definitely leave you frustrated, but just hang in there and keep at it. A lot about game dev will become easier the more time you put in it, including the stuff with VaM. Best of luck with your game!

 

[B10]

Hi I played through your demo and I would suggest to build it a little slower from her perspective. The guys can do what they do of course in some way, but I think it makes more sense if she isn't fully corrupted yet in the beginning. The part in the night can still stay, as long she isn't suspecting it, like the idea I think you have with the milk in the morning.

Or the other way around is also possible from the woman's perspective, that she is the one corrupting the people around her.

 

[chpcool38]

Okay, I like the theme of your game and I downloaded it to play, of course I knew the state you are in, and I am in the exact same spot as you, I am making a game with a similar theme but have a slightly twisted storyline to make it unique, but been here for a lot of years to understand a bit, my situation is different from you in ways like, my concerns about being able to finish my game are different, I have made many choices which are different from yours and I am doing this only for fun, not as a career or even a side gig, I have a feeling talking to you might make sense to understand the challenges and work forward together, if you feel this would be useful send me a DM and we can exchange notes of sorts.

If this sounds weird and creepy, I am sorry, have fun.

Regardless of this random thought, I like your game and am looking forward to future releases. My support on ko.fi will continue as long as you keep improving this thanks.

 

[MaddieMakesLewdGames]

which is why I advised against a "sandbox", but you do you....

Thank you for your ideas on the visuals, I will definitely take some time to come up with a style that is pleasing enough to look at but also do-able for me to create.

Okay, I like the theme of your game and I downloaded it to play, of course I knew the state you are in, and I am in the exact same spot as you, I am making a game with a similar theme but have a slightly twisted storyline to make it unique, but been here for a lot of years to understand a bit, my situation is different from you in ways like, my concerns about being able to finish my game are different, I have made many choices which are different from yours and I am doing this only for fun, not as a career or even a side gig, I have a feeling talking to you might make sense to understand the challenges and work forward together, if you feel this would be useful send me a DM and we can exchange notes of sorts.

If this sounds weird and creepy, I am sorry, have fun.

Regardless of this random thought, I like your game and am looking forward to future releases. My support on ko.fi will continue as long as you keep improving this thanks.

Haha, no, not weird at all! I appreciate your comment, and perhaps we can help each other indeed. I take it you posted some on here so I will take a look around.
Cannot express my appreciation for your support on kofi, thank you so much!

 

[Demnor]

Spoiler: Maddie's opening post

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Hello Maddie,
I have just finished playing the demo and I will try to answer your questions (for my own sake I put your original post in the spoiler above to remind myself what you wanted to know).

1) So for your first question. Ii is hard to say how the general interest is fo all those tags. You certainly see a lot of comment in game with similar tags. If you look at trending games you'll be able to see which games, whith what tags attract the most views and comments. f95z: Trending games

I can say that I would enjoy all of those tags except the sandbox one. I prefer not to play sanbox type games. They are mostly a big waste of time and effort I think. I can stand some free roam, but if that gets to be too much I also tap out (This recently happened for me with F95z: u4ia). Obviously taste differs and many people do play the sanbox style games (Even I have a few sandbox style games on my list of games I follow such as F95z: Bright Past, F95z: The Promise, F95z: Taffy Tales but they are exceptions to the rule, rather than anything else).

If written well and given good choices a VN-style game do not have to feel kinetic and can give you a lot of choice (see for exampel F95z: Lust Campus, F95z: Project Myriam, F95z: Nothing Is Forever, F95z: Long Story Short, F95z: Defending Lydia Collier and F95z: Our Red String all of them are games where your choices really impact the outcome of the game), You might consider a blend of Sandbox and VN (it is hard to pull off, but you could see an example here F95z: Beauty and the Thug).

2) A female POV game is not the standard, but there certainly is interest in these type of games. Som of the most successful games actually have a female POV such as F95z: Anna Exciting Affection, F95z: Chloe18 , F95z: Glamourand above mentioned Project Myriam (Chloe 18 and Glamour are sandbox style games btw, just to let you know my dislike for these type of games might not mean others won't enjoy them).

Personally I like a good female corruption story, and if I ever make my own AVN two of my top three story ideas feature a female POV.

3) Regarding the medium of your story, I'd say go with what feels most fun for you.

Too many times we start something only to not finish. Having fun while doing something really is the key to keep going. This holds especially true when considering most adult game developers never get the big break and only have a small trickling of income, not quite enough to support them. If you catch a break and you start earning money for real it is different, but do not count on getting the big bucks at the beginning. So use the medium that's the easiest and gives you the most happiness that's my advice.

4) I know there was not fourth question but I wanted to give som feedback on the game.

I agree with some other players that everything happened too fast, let her have doubts/misgivings about what has happened. Why is she damp? why has she missed her latest period? etc

I prefer the option to set opacity to your textbox, as it is some of the lewd action takes place behind the textbox, this is never good.

The game shows a lot of promise, if it is not a sandbox type game when you go forward with it, I will likely play the game.

Good luck!

 

[anne O'nymous]

[Note: To avoid all ambiguity, despite my nickname I'm a guy. Worth being said here]

The main tags are incest/rape/drugging/blackmail/corruption.
You play as Nina (customizable name) and shortly into the game, you find out that your brothers had been drugging and raping you for a short while now, almost every night.
Through your choices you can make Nina go along with it though unwilling, she can stand up to them, accept willingly, or even actively join in and pull in more men.

It's your game and your story, so my input is relative and just worth what my opinion worth, but you said that you want to use the fact that you are a girl to present a more womanly perspective... And goes straight for the corruption cliché overused in female protagonist games ; most of those games being made by guys.
Even taking in count that she can willingly agree, what is rare in those games, it still feel like the average female protagonist game ; you woman, me man, so just just shut the fuck up and spread your legs. The only difference being that in your game she can answer "with pleasure" or spread them by herself.

For once that there's a girl behind the story, I would like to see something different than the naive innocent romantic girl cliché and the raped cock sleeve cliché. There's so many place in between those two extremes that are way over represented in female protagonist adult games, and more globally in adult games.


Like you already intent to make her accept or even take an active role, why do she need to be raped by her brother ?

She can perfectly be the one lusting for her brother. Like you want to starts with VN part, use that time to let the player decide what side he want to follow, offering choice to lust over the brother, or at the opposite to stay pure. Then, after some time in the story, when the sandbox part starts by example, the said brother starts to lust for her.

That way, if the player decide that she'll jump into corruption, she will have been the corrupting factor, not the victim. And if the player want her to stay pure, she'll still have to fight against her brother recent lust for her.
This would permit you to effectively put a girly touch in your story, precisely because, whatever the route followed by the player, your girl MC is the one in command. This being opposed to the premise you presented, where she can only react and adapt to what her brother have decided.
And this apply whatever what the player want. She can perfectly be a total sub and progressively corrupted, even with that premise. "Please brother, I beg you, use me the way you want" can perfectly works, and would be so much more interesting than the usual "do whatever you want, but please don't (fire me|hit me|leave me|show those photos|tell my husband|whatever)". But, once again, it will be her decision and act, not a consequence to someone else desires and actions.
So a game with an effective female protagonist, and not just a switch of perspective, with a female MC that have for sole control over her life the choice between "refuse" and "agree", like it's too often the case.

I had planned on releasing the demo at the end of January, however, I came to the realisation that what I had in mind for the full game, is simply not doable for me, as a single creator.
And so I'm thinking of changing it from a VN to a more, sandbox type of game.

Hmm, I don't get it. An interactive VN is too much of works for you, so you decide to do something that will be ten times more complicated to do ?
And, sorry, but the "single creator" part is totally irrelevant. There's plenty games made by a single person, who started with no knowledge, and many among them are good game made by a woman. It just need more time between the updates, but like the games are good and interesting, most players don't care and just wait the time it need.

So, the end idea for the game stays the same, but the gameplay style changes.

Gameplay that will need way more care from you, because way harder to make, while also way easier to break.
I can name you dozen of sandbox-like games where clicking on a location show you a scene that took place five update before, when it don't just send you back in the game. Dozen of sandbox-like games where you fuck the girl ass in one scene, and in the following scene she refuse to kiss you because it's too early in your relation for this.

In an interactive VN, events can only happen in their expected order. In a sandbox-like game, events can happen in whatever order and it's your duty as creator to ensure that this order will be coherent, and that a scene will not happen before all the criteria are met.
And there's no real benefit for you behind, because in the end it doesn't even really mean less renders. It's still the same succession of scenes that with an interactive VN approach, and in fact you'll have to add fillers to not leave pure emptiness when a scene do not yet meet all its requirements.