noob dev asks his experienced senpai's for tips

[ureel]

Hello sir
i would like to ask some questions for more experienced colleagues on this forum; do you have a moment to spare?
Also im not sure if this is the right place for my thread, sorry if it isnt

Im going to create an adult Visual Novel - currently just for fun but maybe for $$ in the future. I have a little bit of programming background (but none in Art 3d). For two days im browsing internet looking for info how to go about creating such a VN. Im thinking of using renpy + DAZ Studio renders + animations. But im also considering other options. When answering you may focus on specific question, or answer multiple, whatever you find comfortable

Without further ado, here are the questions:

1. Leaving fun aside, does creating adult Visual Novels pays well? Do you recommend it as of today?
2. Building upon question 1, what genres of adult VN do you think sells best? I heard that women customers dominate in erotic books which makes authors target such customer - and im thinking if its the same here. Anyone has an idea what is the most "generally likeable"/well selling VN setup? female mc to target women customers? are kinky fetishes generally bad = limits customers OR/AND are not allowed on patreon? Can novel with kinky fetishes be profitable if it cant be put on patreon? If so, how do you sell it? Does Steam allow it? Basically am i forced to do rather generic VN for good sells or is there some "wiggle room"? What to avoid when creating a VN? What to incorporate?
3. What tech would you recommend? as far as i know ue5 and daz studio is similar in a way that i would need to "build up" my collection of assets (i dont have any) by getting freebies or buying them from websites such as DAZ Store or other. UE5 is probably the same - i also start with nothing. UE5 is newer tech. Should i, at this point, jump on UE5 train and start collecting assets there or is DAZ Studio still good option? Opinions about Blender? Ai generation? What frustrates you about tech you work with/any regrets/what tech would you pick retrospectively? How would you go about learning/what is your recommended roadmap? i think i will need to master making assets on my own instead of depending on shop and freebies. So far i just watched youtube videos, which show basics of DAZ Studio, advise against buying assets compulsively - just buying what i need, and recommend websites where i can get freebies. Those are as far as i know always time limited. Should i focus on genesis 8 in DAZ or the new 9? These are mutually exclusive right?
4. This is probably connected with question 3. I heard that rendering in DAZ Studio uses some NVIDIA method and that requires NVIDIA GPU; CPU method is possible but, is like, 4 times slower. My computer specs are: RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB 3600MHz DDR4 (16GB RAM), motherboard B550 Aorus Elite AX V2 AM4, processor AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, GPU Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX Gaming 6700 xt 12GB GDDR6. Currently im thinking that my GPU makes it impossible to render efficiently in DAZ because it cant be used as its not NVIDIA and RAM is too low for complex scenes(a lot of assets) so im thinking of buying GPU RTX 4080 16GB + 2x16GB RAM(total 48GB; i heard i need roughly RAM 3x of GPUs); Does that make sense? Should i do it if i want to play around with rendering? alternatives? is NVIDIA Quadro good in DAZ/other rendering applications? Its unlikely i would buy Quadro because i would also like to use my GPU for gaming but i would like to know how big difference it makes vs 4080 in rendering.
5. Anything else you want to talk about

 

[jamdan]

1 - Odds are, no. Most devs on Patreon make very little if any money. Although it is possible to make a living at it, some even quite well off, it's very unlikely. If you can get your game on Steam, then you can make solid money even if you don't have much of a Patreon following though. Whether or not you make money is largely down to luck.

2 - On F95zone, Harem/male MC games do the best. Incest games (will need patch if on Patreon) are very popular too. You can also make a SubscribeStar account (like Patreon but without rules). The main things are making good art and having a half decent story if you want to actually standout in an oversaturated market.

3 - The large majority of game renders are in Daz because that is what the assets by and large are made for. UE5 isn't like Daz, it's a full game engine. Whereas Daz is more or less a digital photography studio. Using UE5 for making a VN is overkill, unless you have specific needs that UE5 can do. But again, odds are it's overkill. People use UE5 for real time stuff and higher level games (like actual AAA games). VN's are more or less pictures with text.

You can't sell AI generated content on Steam. So that is out if you want to make money.

Blender is a generalist 3D software. You can make VN's renders with it, but it's probably too complicated unless you have specific needs like wanting to make your own assets. It is pretty common for devs to make things in Blender or other programs to export to Daz though. You can also export Daz assets to Blender pretty easily.

So overall, AVN devs generally stick to Daz because 1- It's easy. 2- It has a large amount of assets available. You can also look on other stores like Renderosity, RenderHub for assets too. And on here https://f95zone.to/sam/latest_alpha/#/cat=assets/page=1 for "free" stuff. (aka pirated assets).

Gen 8/8.1 stuff is more available and will be cheaper. People have mixed opinions on whether G9 is better or worse.

4 - If you use Daz for renders, you need a NVIDIA GPU. The main thing is you need VRAM, because in Daz your scene needs to fit in your cards VRAM or else it'll render on your CPU (which is very slow). You don't need some supercomputer though, use a render queue and render overnight. Plenty of devs still use 30-series cards or even 20-series and do fine.

 

[MissFortune]

I won't step on jamdan's toes as he largely nailed everything. I'll add to the first couple points, though.

What are you looking to get out of making an AVN/adult game? That questions is going to largely shift what you do. If you're looking for a quick payday? You're better off learning C# or something and making a mobile game with microtransactions. A large majority of AVN/adult game devs will never see six digits from doing this. That's largely ignoring the entitlement and generally awful people you come across who will try to make your life hell if you don't bend the knee to their every view.

Just reading how money-focused your post is, I'd point toward looking at something else. You have to find this work enjoyable to not end up in the pile of already abandoned stuff. You cool with spending full-time work hours with financial return that's far, far below the world's lowest minimum wage? It starts with doing for the art, and if you can make a living off of it, awesome. But don't quit your job thinking you can strike it rich with this.

 

[ureel]

I won't step on jamdan's toes as he largely nailed everything. I'll add to the first couple points, though.

What are you looking to get out of making an AVN/adult game? That questions is going to largely shift what you do. If you're looking for a quick payday? You're better off learning C# or something and making a mobile game with microtransactions. A large majority of AVN/adult game devs will never see six digits from doing this. That's largely ignoring the entitlement and generally awful people you come across who will try to make your life hell if you don't bend the knee to their every view.

Just reading how money-focused your post is, I'd point toward looking at something else. You have to find this work enjoyable to not end up in the pile of already abandoned stuff. You cool with spending full-time work hours with financial return that's far, far below the world's lowest minimum wage? It starts with doing for the art, and if you can make a living off of it, awesome. But don't quit your job thinking you can strike it rich with this.

Thanks for replying!
Im frontend developer(with a bit of php), commited to a single company who manages my work. Im financially secure, so i dont really need my game to earn money - but i dislike having a hobby that does not have a potential to do that if i get good at it. So i look for getting some experience in some other area than web development - and 3d modeling and game development sounds super fun to me(and C# seems scary).

This project would be done "after work" with assumption that it wont pay. I kinda wrote same post on another forum and replies there cooled down my enthusiasm to spend instantly big money when likelihood to get it back is very low. Currently im just thinking of doing it for fun and free - daz(cpu)/ue5 with free assets or blender to make those assets if i ever get that far. I like your tip about mobile development though - because i like doing whats fun AND pays at the same time, thats why i started learning flutter for mobile development.

I think it all started with assumption that porn sells and my recent interest in 3d modeling. The assumption turned out mostly false though. I will go into it for fun instead of money, and try to hold my overthinking mind on money/career aspects

 

[MissFortune]

Thanks for replying!
Im frontend developer(with a bit of php), commited to a single company who manages my work. Im financially secure, so i dont really need my game to earn money - but i dislike having a hobby that does not have a potential to do that if i get good at it. So i look for getting some experience in some other area than web development - and 3d modeling and game development sounds super fun to me(and C# seems scary).

This project would be done "after work" with assumption that it wont pay. I kinda wrote same post on another forum and replies there cooled down my enthusiasm to spend instantly big money when likelihood to get it back is very low. Currently im just thinking of doing it for fun and free - daz(cpu)/ue5 with free assets or blender to make those assets if i ever get that far. I like your tip about mobile development though - because i like doing whats fun AND pays at the same time, thats why i started learning flutter for mobile development.

I think it all started with assumption that porn sells and my recent interest in 3d modeling. The assumption turned out mostly false though. I will go into it for fun instead of money, and try to hold my overthinking mind on money/career aspects

It's possible if you put the work in, to be clear. Your English seems fine, so you already have that going for you. Coming with a big first release (a 1000+ renders, for example. Or X hours of playtime. Really depends on the style of the game) of a project with the proper graphic fidelity will take you a long way. If you put out good work consistently and are financially stable enough to ride out a solid year (if not more of) of decent/middling payouts, then you'll eventually get there. Especially if you hit the right mix of niche and fetish.

 

[ureel]

1 - Odds are, no. Most devs on Patreon make very little if any money. Although it is possible to make a living at it, some even quite well off, it's very unlikely. If you can get your game on Steam, then you can make solid money even if you don't have much of a Patreon following though. Whether or not you make money is largely down to luck.

2 - On F95zone, Harem/male MC games do the best. Incest games (will need patch if on Patreon) are very popular too. You can also make a SubscribeStar account (like Patreon but without rules). The main things are making good art and having a half decent story if you want to actually standout in an oversaturated market.

3 - The large majority of game renders are in Daz because that is what the assets by and large are made for. UE5 isn't like Daz, it's a full game engine. Whereas Daz is more or less a digital photography studio. Using UE5 for making a VN is overkill, unless you have specific needs that UE5 can do. But again, odds are it's overkill. People use UE5 for real time stuff and higher level games (like actual AAA games). VN's are more or less pictures with text.

You can't sell AI generated content on Steam. So that is out if you want to make money.

Blender is a generalist 3D software. You can make VN's renders with it, but it's probably too complicated unless you have specific needs like wanting to make your own assets. It is pretty common for devs to make things in Blender or other programs to export to Daz though. You can also export Daz assets to Blender pretty easily.

So overall, AVN devs generally stick to Daz because 1- It's easy. 2- It has a large amount of assets available. You can also look on other stores like Renderosity, RenderHub for assets too. And on here https://f95zone.to/sam/latest_alpha/#/cat=assets/page=1 for "free" stuff. (aka pirated assets).

Gen 8/8.1 stuff is more available and will be cheaper. People have mixed opinions on whether G9 is better or worse.

4 - If you use Daz for renders, you need a NVIDIA GPU. The main thing is you need VRAM, because in Daz your scene needs to fit in your cards VRAM or else it'll render on your CPU (which is very slow). You don't need some supercomputer though, use a render queue and render overnight. Plenty of devs still use 30-series cards or even 20-series and do fine.

Thanks for replying!
Yeah, as MissFortune pointed out - my post was really money-focused. Yours and other answers made me aware that earning money from it isnt something to be expecting, its more like a happy accident.

Thanks for your tips about whats popular. I also didnt really know there is such a thing as SubscribeStar, will need to look at it.

About tech - yeah, ue5 is overkill but i kinda look further than this project. As i said in reply below this one i would like to combine hobby with possibility of earning money from it if i get good at it. So making it in ue5 would be just to get a foothold into ue5. Currently my approach is to just try it for fun and for free - try daz/ue5 with free assets, mess around with blender and see if its fun and if i ever get as far as making my own half-decent assets i can use them in daz/ue5, so its kinda connected; or i can just sell assets and not make a game after all. Either way i think i will start collecting free assets. Thanks for the tip about AI on Steam - i didnt know that

True, i actually missed i can just buy old NVIDIA GPU and tunnel-visioned on 4080, but i guess cheaper alternatives would do the job - especially because i just mess around for now. I think i would like to check how fast CPU rendering would be. Maybe it will be fine for now. Ultimately i think i will try a little bit of everything and see whats fun

 

[anne O'nymous]

I kinda wrote same post on another forum and replies there cooled down my enthusiasm to spend instantly big money when likelihood to get it back is very low.

Well, this summarize relatively well the situation.

You don't need the last computer to use Daz, but devs who can afford it have at least one computer, with a GeForce 3090, when not a GeForce 4090, dedicated to the rendering. And with the price of the assets, for a basic starts expect a cost between US$ 1,000 and 2,000. Yet with this you just have around 50 and 100 assets, what can be good for some games, and would be really short for others.
So, globally, and going with Daz, count an expense around US$ 4,000 before the first release of your game. And this without counting the electricity bills you'll have to pay.

On the other side, there's the incomes over the 7,349 creators of adult games on Patreon, around 500 earn US$ 1,000/month or more, and the first to earn less than US$ 200/month is Leocid2, ranked 634 in number of followers ; it's not anymore the number of patrons, what make it a bit harder to have a correct estimation through

You must be registered to see the links

.

The only reason for one to want to make an AVN is the pleasure to make it. With the help of luck you can start earning few bucks or more, but it must be seem as the cherry on the cake, not as a goal.

I think it all started with assumption that porn sells [...]

Oh, it sell... But if most money processor are reluctant to deal with it, it's because porn is also the market where there's the most frauds... So, it sell, but not necessarily for the person who make it.

 

[Count Morado]

i dont really need my game to earn money - but i dislike having a hobby that does not have a potential to do that if i get good at it

I know anne O'nymous gave you the quick and dirty - but if you want to drill deeper... Breakdown of Patreon earning estimates I compiled just a few days ago.

 

[ureel]

Well, this summarize relatively well the situation.

You don't need the last computer to use Daz, but devs who can afford it have at least one computer, with a GeForce 3090, when not a GeForce 4090, dedicated to the rendering. And with the price of the assets, for a basic starts expect a cost between US$ 1,000 and 2,000. Yet with this you just have around 50 and 100 assets, what can be good for some games, and would be really short for others.
So, globally, and going with Daz, count an expense around US$ 4,000 before the first release of your game. And this without counting the electricity bills you'll have to pay.

On the other side, there's the incomes over the 7,349 creators of adult games on Patreon, around 500 earn US$ 1,000/month or more, and the first to earn less than US$ 200/month is Leocid2, ranked 634 in number of followers ; it's not anymore the number of patrons, what make it a bit harder to have a correct estimation through

You must be registered to see the links

.

The only reason for one to want to make an AVN is the pleasure to make it. With the help of luck you can start earning few bucks or more, but it must be seem as the cherry on the cake, not as a goal.




Oh, it sell... But if most money processor are reluctant to deal with it, it's because porn is also the market where there's the most frauds... So, it sell, but not necessarily for the person who make it.

Thanks for replying!
And for an estimation of costs and data about earnings of fellow developers on Patreon, thats really useful. Some food for thought.

Frauds in porn industry sounds worrisome.. Is it about stealing assets? or game? or do steam/other platforms sometimes refuse to pay dev's cut? Its kinda vague but doesnt sound good at all

 

[ureel]

I know anne O'nymous gave you the quick and dirty - but if you want to drill deeper... Breakdown of Patreon earning estimates I compiled just a few days ago.

Thanks for replying!
Yes please! Will check that out after work! I would like to go as deep as it gets (no pun intended)

 

[anne O'nymous]

Frauds in porn industry sounds worrisome..

I was talking at payment processor level, therefore it's mostly the fraudulent use of bank account, abusive request for refunding (because honey discovered you pornhub account), and at bigger level money laundering.
All this don't really apply a creator level, it was more to show you that "sex sell" means more "it attract all kind of attention", effectively "it give you big money".