NTR and incest

[9thCrux]

Incest games are about letting the player have a relationship with a family member, which actually happens in real life tho, what makes the difference is the kind of relationship people have with a family member.
Some would just give in to lust and would start having sex with a sibling, cousin, parent, or other family member and just keep it as that; a secret sexual partner that they fuck if the chance arise. Very few have serious relationships with a family member but there are people that do.

I personally find any form of NTR disgusting, offensive, sickening, stupid, childish, repulsive, to say the least.
And the idea of "being OK" or "being aroused" by someone raping or blackmailing anyone I care about is beyond mental illness.

The whole NTR idea is sick, how can someone in his right mind get exited at witnessing a loved one getting raped or cornered into having sex against their will? Getting a boner from seeing your mother's, sister's, cousin's, your wife's, your girlfriend's anguish, cries, pain, distress, suffering?
Seriously?

Go take a look at any family member you love like your daughter, your mom, or anyone you actually love and then imagine what it actually would be like to see someone hurting them and leaving them with emotional and physical scars that will forever change who they're. And then you have to deal with the aftermath, triggers, ptsd, depression, suicides...
Over my dead body!

I have read posts of people that say they like NTR and most of them never identify as the MC they think of themselves as the rapist, the blackmailer, the one forcing and abusing people, one of the guys gang raping, most of them are just teenagers who want to think they're "bad", they're "though", they're "strong", they have "power", that their mind is "dark"... which in fact reflects their real life frustrations. They turn to fantasy worlds where they can control or force people they like to have sex with them. Something like "if I can't have it so I'm gonna destroy it", childish...

Depending on the country where you live, but divorce and cheating is way more prevalent on selfish, shallow, and arrogant societies where is all about "having what I want when I want it" (...childish...), or shallow and show off cultures where all is about how I look to others or how I compare to others. For them seems like normal to fuck around and be OK to have your partner fuck around. Some of the divorces are about normal people not wanting to put up with cheating, lies, and fake people....

So the idea of cheating and fucking around maybe realistic in some places but is not what marriage or serious relationships are about, I remember stupid teenagers getting married in a military base just to get housing and then have parties every weekend where they would just fuck anyone they could without thinking of consequences like a 17yo going to live in a college dorm without supervision, they get crazy... childish again.

In a normal relationship people get together because they care for each other and they want to become support, help, protector, a guardian to their partner's feelings and happiness. They become each other's; his woman, her man. Being hurt when your loved one cheats and lies on you is a normal and natural reaction wherever you live, pretending to be OK with it is not. That is just spite and selfish arrogance. Like an upset child who can't grasp the scope of the situation.

People who plays incest games to experience their fantasies play as the MC, as the one who is seducing and winning over the family member(s) they like. Most games involve grinding, following routes, and making choices to appeal to their love interest and after hours of doing the best they can to grind and seduce their target the last thing they want is having some random NPC showing you how is fucking the love interest you dedicated time and effort winning over, specially when at the beginning you knew the love interest was available and not into a relationship.

So for me, and many:
No, players shouldn't have NTR in incest games.
If others enjoy helplessness and humiliation so much they can look for whimpy loser, pathetic cuck simulators where they also get gang raped in the butt.

 

[Ignazzio]

For the record, I'm not trying to defend IRL incest. Just saying that, in some cases, it could work out, at least on a short-term basis, more so if the pair are the same age and cousins rather than siblings. Still it may end up very nasty, as it does inevitably change a relationship which it's not easy to walk out of.

On the other hand, cuckolding or swinging also has a profound effect on the relationship with your partner and can also end up very nasty.

That's why such genres are more interesting in a game than IRL.

Yeah, let's say we can agree on that. Most things can end up nasty tho. Cuckholding is basically a cheating in real life so it's quite damn disgusting but swinging is just a willingful sexual game and I can't imagine.

Incest games are about letting the player have a relationship with a family member, which actually happens in real life tho, what makes the difference is the kind of relationship people have with a family member.
Some would just give in to lust and would start having sex with a sibling, cousin, parent, or other family member and just keep it as that; a secret sexual partner that they fuck if the chance arise. Very few have serious relationships with a family member but there are people that do.

I personally find any form of NTR disgusting, offensive, sickening, stupid, childish, repulsive, to say the least.
And the idea of "being OK" or "being aroused" by someone raping or blackmailing anyone I care about is beyond mental illness.

The whole NTR idea is sick, how can someone in his right mind get exited at witnessing a loved one getting raped or cornered into having sex against their will? Getting a boner from seeing your mother's, sister's, cousin's, your wife's, your girlfriend's anguish, cries, pain, distress, suffering?
Seriously?

Go take a look at any family member you love like your daughter, your mom, or anyone you actually love and then imagine what it actually would be like to see someone hurting them and leaving them with emotional and physical scars that will forever change who they're. And then you have to deal with the aftermath, triggers, ptsd, depression, suicides...
Over my dead body!

I have read posts of people that say they like NTR and most of them never identify as the MC they think of themselves as the rapist, the blackmailer, the one forcing and abusing people, one of the guys gang raping, most of them are just teenagers who want to think they're "bad", they're "though", they're "strong", they have "power", that their mind is "dark"... which in fact reflects their real life frustrations. They turn to fantasy worlds where they can control or force people they like to have sex with them. Something like "if I can't have it so I'm gonna destroy it", childish...

Depending on the country where you live, but divorce and cheating is way more prevalent on selfish, shallow, and arrogant societies where is all about "having what I want when I want it" (...childish...), or shallow and show off cultures where all is about how I look to others or how I compare to others. For them seems like normal to fuck around and be OK to have your partner fuck around. Some of the divorces are about normal people not wanting to put up with cheating, lies, and fake people....

So the idea of cheating and fucking around maybe realistic in some places but is not what marriage or serious relationships are about, I remember stupid teenagers getting married in a military base just to get housing and then have parties every weekend where they would just fuck anyone they could without thinking of consequences like a 17yo going to live in a college dorm without supervision, they get crazy... childish again.

In a normal relationship people get together because they care for each other and they want to become support, help, protector, a guardian to their partner's feelings and happiness. They become each other's; his woman, her man. Being hurt when your loved one cheats and lies on you is a normal and natural reaction wherever you live, pretending to be OK with it is not. That is just spite and selfish arrogance. Like an upset child who can't grasp the scope of the situation.

People who plays incest games to experience their fantasies play as the MC, as the one who is seducing and winning over the family member(s) they like. Most games involve grinding, following routes, and making choices to appeal to their love interest and after hours of doing the best they can to grind and seduce their target the last thing they want is having some random NPC showing you how is fucking the love interest you dedicated time and effort winning over, specially when at the beginning you knew the love interest was available and not into a relationship.

So for me, and many:
No, players shouldn't have NTR in incest games.
If others enjoy helplessness and humiliation so much they can look for whimpy loser, pathetic cuck simulators where they also get gang raped in the butt.

In vast majority of NTR games there is no rape or it is outside main storyline. Abusion is common but rape is pretty rare. It's more painful when girl you like is with someone else willingly. In real life rape is a terrible thing but in games everything is a fair game. I can't see a reason one can feel that rape/blackmail is something terrible and think about its effects while thinking that incest is ok. Especially that there are shittons of games with MC being a rapist. It doesn't seem logical unless you really believe that incest is something normal in real life. Games are meant to fullfil some specific fantasies and it's better for them to stay as they are

 

[Zippity]

Hey

This is a topic with varied views and strong feelings from either side of the fence. But yes, it can happen in a game, literature, movies, theaters, and what not, because it only has to make sense with the narrative of the story.
Granted, some narratives are stronger than others, but all in all, everything can be done as long as it stays within the narrative of the project, it may even make some kind of sense.

As I understand NTR it is the same as cuckolding. We need to understand and agree on what it is, or any debate will just steer of the rails immediately. Cuckolding is about love and the excitement of watching, knowing that your woman is being pleasured by another man: A bull (typically). Many confuse it with cheating, which it is not! Cuckolding is also about freedom and the ability to engage with others in sexual games. And typically they both get a kick out of it, or it wouldn't happen and it would simply be cheating.

In the context of incest, I believe that it can exist. That is in a consensual adult relationship. We have to understand that incest is only wrong because of social, moral and ethical control, and we should also remember, that it is not even illegal everywhere in the world. Even in the USA, some states are very lenient when it comes to incest and only "bring the hammer down" on incest marriage. So in my opinion NTR and incest are not necessarily exclusive.

BB is a whole other ballgame. It is all about corruption and force. There is no apparent love anywhere, just the overwhelming lust and desire to fuck any and all family members. It is, in my opinion, a rather dark and dismal "story" of a dysfunctional family.

Anyways. Long rant, and I'm sure others will disagree with some or even with most, or perhaps with all, of my rantings and so it must be.

Have a good one.

Cheers - Kaffekop

NTR is short for Netorare, which is a Japanese originated slang word that is meant to describe a genre of Hentai, that includes Infidelity... And not just marriage, but boyfriend/girlfriend relationships as well... In essence, cheating, adultery, being unfaithful, or having an affair outside of the originating relationship... Where as cuck/cuckold is a very old term that has been around for centuries... It is meant as a derogatory term to describe a man who is the husband of an unfaithful wife... So technically NTR and Cuckold are NOT the same thing, but NTR can include a Cuckold...

And yes I agree, that NTR and Family Sex can be in the same story, but they can only be directly linked under specific circumstances... As an example, the two blood relatives somehow were married or in a boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship and during that time period one was unfaithful to the other... But they are not the same thing, yet they could both occur at the same time... The story could still include both without any intersecting at all...

Hope that makes more sense...

 

[Zippity]

But if NTR is about watching somebody else have sex with "your" woman, then how can this exist in combination with incest, because the key element of incest is that you cannot "have" the woman.

Technically that is not what NTR is... NTR is in essence infidelity/unfaithfulness/adultery/cheating/etc... Watching some else have sex with "your" woman is a whole other fetish in and of itself... If "your" woman was doing it and both of ya didn't consent to it, then yes, it would be NTR... If a sexual/romantic relationship is formed between two people, regardless if blood relative or not, then any infidelity outside of the relationship, if not consented to by both parties, would be NTR...

Also in real life, your sister will probably get into a relationship with some dude, whom you may like, or not. And most likely, you will be happy for her, or you will worry that she made the wrong choice, but either way you won't be able to influence it much, nor (and this is the key point) do you have any right to do so.

But we are not talking real life in these things... For me, i never go into a visual novel/game even thinking the people involved are related at all... For me a love story is a love story, a romance is a romance, sex between consenting adults is sex between consenting adults... With so many VN/games including that Family Sex dynamic nonsense right now, it's the only way to get through them really... For me, the protagonist is never a blood relative, regardless what it tries to portray to the reader/player... Because I don't believe in it's use in real life, why would I go into some piece of fiction thinking anything else... It's not a fetish for me, but instead it's all we seem to have available, so the choices are becoming more limited... Mostly because author/s are either greedy, or unable to be unique/creative...

P.S. it may be, that I am using the wrong definition of NTR, because that is quite difficult to define apparently. But it is not my intention to make this thread about definitions.

It's actually very easy to define... The problem is that too many people use it improperly, either due to ignorance, or seeing it used wrong by others and thinking that is what it really means...

 

[EnTeeArrr]

All I know is when there is a vanilla or incest game, you don't see NTR fans complaining to remove that content.

But if there is any game with NTR, even if there is clear switches to never see it, you have people complaining and asking for it's removal.

That's just rude. Don't kink shame, let everyone have their fun.

PS. "The Tyrant" is currently the very best game that has both incest and NTR.

 

[Zippity]

All I know is when there is a vanilla or incest game, you don't see NTR fans complaining to remove that content.

But if there is any game with NTR, even if there is clear switches to never see it, you have people complaining and asking for it's removal.

That's just rude. Don't kink shame, let everyone have their fun.

PS. "The Tyrant" is currently the very best game that has both incest and NTR.

I think the reason for it is that when you get immersed into a visual novel/game, especially one where there is a love/romance motif between the protagonist (that the player somewhat controls) and another character... Naturally as the relationship between the character grows, an emotional attachment grows as well (intended or not)... And when something occurs that forces that character to somehow be taken away or he/she becomes unfaithful, without the player/reader being able to stop it or avoid it, then anger and/or angst happens... It's a natural emotion to feel when a story is good enough that you become immersed into the wellbeing of the protagonist, and when things bad occur to that protagonist, emotions will rise...

So of course, who the hell wants to feel anger and/or angst when reading/playing these sorts of visual novels/games? No one... Hence you get some folks who feel so strongly about it, or hate it when it occurs too often or too quickly, they are gonna speak up about it...

It's like when your watching a movie you really like and the hero's love interest is suddenly kidnaped right in front of the hero, and he/she is defenseless to stop it... You feel anger/angst/stress over a situation, that isn't real, but you're so immersed into the story, you can't help it... Or like when you watch a horror and the main character goes into the pitch black room while looking for the masked killer, and you suddenly feel stressed about it... Why is the dummy going into the dark room, when there is a light switch just there on the wall... You wish you could yell into the guys ear to hit the switch, but you have no control over the situation, which makes you feel stressed and full of angst... Then suddenly the guy gets knocked out, and you get all up in arms yelling, "I told you so, you idiot" and then you storm away with a bad view of the movie because you had no control over a situation that could have been avoided if only they guy coulda heard you... I mean, this is a fictional movie, and yet it created such fierce emotional attachment...

It's all about emotional attachment, regardless if you intended to have it or not... And NTR can do that, with more people then folks realize...

 

[Ignazzio]

NTR is short for Netorare, which is a Japanese originated slang word that is meant to describe a genre of Hentai, that includes Infidelity... And not just marriage, but boyfriend/girlfriend relationships as well... In essence, cheating, adultery, being unfaithful, or having an affair outside of the originating relationship...

That's also NTR but it's not an essence. Most popular NTR hentai movies/games include childhood friends with no romantic relationship. It's all about MC's feelings and he doesn't have to be with female

 

[Ataios]

A game, even a porn game is always a work of fiction, therefore I wouldn't bring real life morality into this too much. Someone playing a porn game that has non-consentual scenes in it, is no more likely to become a rapist, than a GTA player is likely to become a serial killer.

I also think realism should not be an argument in porn games (or movies), especially incest games. There are basically two variants of incest games:

In one you tell your mom "I was just peeping on you while you undressed and got really horny. Want to suck my dick?" - Not quite realistic!
In the other you have an artifact, a super power or a pact with a demon that allows you to turn your mom, sister and aunt into a harem of sex slave. - Not that realistic either!

Other unrealistic porn movie and game tropes:
- A woman that has never had any interest in other women, sees that female stranger and goes right into lesbian action (I personally find porn of that kind really fucking hot btw.)
- A lesbian couple is keen on letting male strangers watch
- Everybody loves threesomes and gangbangs
- Everyone is bisexual, at least if your charisma score is high enough
- Every man can produce three times his weight in sperm each day
- Except for postmen and plumbers. They can produce ten times their weight in sperm each day
- Maids, waitresses and nurses always wear high heels at work.
- plus-size young women and flat-chested mature women don't exist
- no matter what your job is, you always have some time for a fucking break in the office

So porn is not - and should not be - realistic. Often it's the unlikelyhood that makes it all the more exciting.

 

[Zippity]

That's also NTR but it's not an essence. Most popular NTR hentai movies/games include childhood friends with no romantic relationship. It's all about MC's feelings and he doesn't have to be with female

You should look it up, and read up on the history of Netorare which is what NTR stands for...

 

[Ignazzio]

You should look it up, and read up on the history of Netorare which is what NTR stands for...

I have no idea about what history you're talking about but it might be worth it to post it. I'm playing NTR games in Japanese for years and I can tell you with 100% certainty it's not only about relationships. Relationships are in less than 50% games of this genre and I've played fair amount of them to say that. Our definitions don't matter if place it originates from has different one.

 

[Zippity]

I have no idea about what history you're talking about but it might be worth it to post it. I'm playing NTR games in Japanese for years and I can tell you with 100% certainty it's not only about relationships. Relationships are in less than 50% games of this genre and I've played fair amount of them to say that. Our definitions don't matter if place it originates from has different one.

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(Scroll down to N section)

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And I could go on with tons more sites, but that should be enough to get the point across...

What are the most common elements associated to NTR/Netorare? Cheating/Infidelity/Cuckoldery

What is the common purpose of NTR? To make the reader/player basically feel negative emotions such as jealousy, anger, mistrust, heartache, etc...

So why do people hate NTR so much? See above, who the hell wants to feel negative emotions when reading adult/erotic visual novels/games... People want to feel positive emotions, not negative emotions... Hence the majority of folks out there, regardless if they speak up about it or not, hate NTR in all it's forms... And yet authors feel compelled to use it... Most likely because in an attempt to add drama to their story, that is the first or only thing they can think of... Which shows, to me at least, a lack of creativity/uniqueness, since it gets used so much... But to be fair, there are some folks who like it...

It became a famous theme in Japanese Hentai mostly because of the Japanese Culture's views on Purity... As Netorare is the basic anti-thesis of Purity, it began to pick up some steam in Japan, but it also caused severe amounts of kickback as well, which is the only reason it began to gain such viewable presence in the general public, mostly because of notoriety (not popularity)...

 

[Ignazzio]

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(Scroll down to N section)

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And I could go on with tons more sites, but that should be enough to get the point across...

What are the most common elements associated to NTR/Netorare? Cheating/Infidelity/Cuckoldery

What is the common purpose of NTR? To make the reader/player basically feel negative emotions such as jealousy, anger, mistrust, heartache, etc...

So why do people hate NTR so much? See above, who the hell wants to feel negative emotions when reading adult/erotic visual novels/games... People want to feel positive emotions, not negative emotions... Hence the majority of folks out there, regardless if they speak up about it or not, hate NTR in all it's forms... And yet authors feel compelled to use it... Most likely because in an attempt to add drama to their story, that is the first or only thing they can think of... Which shows, to me at least, a lack of creativity/uniqueness, since it gets used so much... But to be fair, there are some folks who like it...

Oh I agree with everything you said except for saying that it's in essence cheating or cuckhold. It might be but it's not what's defining it. Definitions you gave are simply wrong in most case. It's not like it's my personal opinion, it's like that in Japan. Ofc cheating is often a thing but it's not necessary nor defining. In most famous translated NTR hentais like True Blue or I Can male character isn't a boyfriend of female. They obviously love each other but aren't in a relationship. I could give tons of other examples (Our

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is a good example. NTRed character is a little brother with whom there is no incest relation. He just loves his sister). It's about feelings of MC cuz as you said NTR is based on negative emotions so it requires positive base to create them. But that's an offtop I guess

 

[baka]

to answer the OP, yes. ntr is not about having a relationship, is about, as the post above wrote, the emotional state.
it could be a dude that has a crush on a girl (they are not together, or did have any romantic relationship in the past) and another dude "steals" the girl. if the "dude" feels angst or bad about it, we have NTR. if the dude enjoy that someone is fucking "his" girl, we have NTR, if the dude don't give a shit, we don't have NTR, if the dude, enjoy the fuck, but don't care about her in a "girlfriend" way, we don't have NTR, now we have peeping tom.
we don't need to feel bad, NTR can be that the MC enjoy that his girl(s) gets fucked. so its untrue that NTR=angst, bad emotions. i usually enjoy NTR when MC feels good about it.

 

[Zippity]

Oh I agree with everything you said except for saying that it's in essence cheating or cuckhold. It might be but it's not what's defining it. Definitions you gave are simply wrong in most case. It's not like it's my personal opinion, it's like that in Japan. Ofc cheating is often a thing but it's not necessary nor defining. In most famous translated NTR hentais like True Blue or I Can male character isn't a boyfriend of female. They obviously love each other but aren't in a relationship. I could give tons of other examples (Our

You must be registered to see the links

is a good example. NTRed character is a little brother with whom there is no incest relation. He just loves his sister). It's about feelings of MC cuz as you said NTR is based on negative emotions so it requires positive base to create them. But that's an offtop I guess

I think you are taking my prior post too literally, with the whole essence thing... When I said "

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" it does not mean the literal word

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... I was attempting to emphasize the primary representation of NTR as being Cheating/Cuckold/Infidelity/etc based on the terms history, it's creation, it's proper intended usage...

Did you go to all the sites I listed and read them all, to get a better sense of it's true meaning, rather then what the general public perceives it to mean?

And a

You must be registered to see the links

is a very general term... I never said Family Sex had to be a part of it... And what you said about Love Each Other, that is a relationship... I never said it had to be a sexual and/or physical relationship... Being friends is a relationship, being sister/brother is a relationship, marriage is a relationship, etc... You are reading too much into what I originally said... Perhaps we're having a communication debacle...

 

[anne O'nymous]

Can both NTR and incest exist in a single game?

No, but not for the reason you can think. NTR in an incest game isn't just "someone fuck my women". It's, "someone fuck the women of my family"...

I'm not a great fan of NTR, and I try to avoid it when it's possible, but don't go mad if it's not possible, and most of the time I still play the game. I enjoy it less, but still take some pleasure to play it. They are the girls I want to fuck, but they are just girls, they have the right to offer themselves to other male, or be used by them, whatever. I'm not really possessive in real life, and so am in games.
But this apply only if it's not an incest game, because the feeling aren't at all the same. It's not anymore an, "it's my girl, I love her and let her be free" ; which isn't strictly the definition of NTR, but still the way it's perceived by a lot of people who aren't this into "sharing" even if it's just in a game.
They are my family ! Do you really love when one of your family member, your near family I mean, is humiliated, degraded ? I'm sure that the answer is "no". As a dick as you can be with your sister, you still love her and if someone start to treat her like you do yourself, you'll go made. And I don't even talk about your daughter...
Well, it's the same with sex. You can make love to them, I'll not be happy but let you do if it really please them, but you can't use them like it's the case in almost all NTR scenarios. Only me can be a dick with my family, because I know that they are my beloved family before being my cumbuckets. But if you try to do the same with them...

 

[Ignazzio]

I think you are taking my prior post too literally, with the whole essence thing... When I said "

You must be registered to see the links

" it does not mean the literal word

You must be registered to see the links

... I was attempting to emphasize the primary representation of NTR as being Cheating/Cuckold/Infidelity/etc based on the terms history, it's creation, it's proper intended usage...

Did you go to all the sites I listed and read them all, to get a better sense of it's true meaning, rather then what the general public perceives it to mean?

And a

You must be registered to see the links

is a very general term... I never said Family Sex had to be a part of it... And what you said about Love Each Other, that is a relationship... I never said it had to be a sexual and/or physical relationship... Being friends is a relationship, being sister/brother is a relationship, marriage is a relationship, etc... You are reading too much into what I originally said... Perhaps we're having a communication debacle...

Might be true No conflict here

 

[muttdoggy]

One day someone will develop a game where you play as the father married to your hot wife who actually looks 24, and you'll come home from work one day to find her getting fucked hard by your somehow big black son, in the shower of course because incest game.

It will be the perfect game that will finally appeal to fans of both groups.

This prompts you to have a revenge threesome with your hot black daughter and your big black son's girlfriend. As a result you are known as the filling in the oreo since they follow you around 24/7.
Now you have both NTR and Incest in the same game. Plus it's interracial so that's a plus.

 

[spambot]

Depending on the country where you live, but divorce and cheating is way more prevalent on selfish, shallow, and arrogant societies where is all about "having what I want when I want it" (...childish...), or shallow and show off cultures where all is about how I look to others or how I compare to others. For them seems like normal to fuck around and be OK to have your partner fuck around. Some of the divorces are about normal people not wanting to put up with cheating, lies, and fake people....

So the idea of cheating and fucking around maybe realistic in some places but is not what marriage or serious relationships are about, I remember stupid teenagers getting married in a military base just to get housing and then have parties every weekend where they would just fuck anyone they could without thinking of consequences like a 17yo going to live in a college dorm without supervision, they get crazy... childish again.

Who gave the Amish a computer?

Could've summed up the wall of text in three words: backwards, paternalism, patriarchy.

It also takes a criminal lack of irony to rail against rape while excusing real-life incest...

 

[pystudios]

Sure you can. Will it be popular? Hell no!