On gameplay and grinding

[XforU]

It's crazy how quickly things changed for me, since I used to really enjoy gameplay heavy RPGMaker games just a few years ago.

I still have a folder with over 300 RPG Maker games, and I keep downloading more, yet I don't even play them anymore.
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I would never subject myself to 300 rpgm games. There are like 50 good ones in total (that fit my preference in terms of tags).

RPGM has a shit rep for a reason

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

RPGM has a shit rep for a reason

Half of them can't even maintain 60fps.

(PS, am downloading a certain RPGM game RN. Which one is a total mystery. )

 

[prpa]

I would never subject myself to 300 rpgm games. There are like 50 good ones in total (that fit my preference in terms of tags).

RPGM has a shit rep for a reason

I agree, but I’ve been hoarding them since 2015, and I haven’t even played 15% of them.

I've been meaning to delete them all, but nostalgia prevents me.

 

[SquigglyCalamari]

Before I started trying to make my own game I never really understood why so many rpgmaker games have very little gameplay outside of generic puzzles, generic battles, and some picture / dialouge events. When I started developing I quickly realized just how hard it is to make cool maps, dynamic battle scenes, and unique events. Not only that, but that cost which can go up when making a game more unique than usually expected.

I still am trying myself to make my game fun and unique even if it risk being extremely difficult for me but I understand now that finding the right balance and executing it well is a huge challenge. I'm not personally a fan of day and night cycles and pushing boulders for a puzzle but I understand now that its these mechanics that slow down the progression between events and strecth out the gameplay playtime.

It is really interesting reading what everyone has to say, I will do my best to learn from it all.

 

[PopotoProductions]

I think it is not about the amount of gameplay but the challenge / reward ratio or something like that

100% this.

I'm more appreciative of the NSFW content if I felt as a player that I had to deserve it (especially if it led to me getting invested in the characters along the way). On the other hand, too much difficulty with not enough payoff can push a lot of people to quit. And then there's the genre : I might be more patient with a RPG or a management game than a platformer, for example.

I like it most when there are "long-term" rewards (a scene with a main LI, or just a high quality CG) for the longer investment, as well as "short-term" rewards in the immediate gameplay (small, new lewd interactions, some sex escapade with an optional character after a short quest, etc.) on the road.

My own game is a sandbox and so far I've focused way more on the "long-term" rewards. Mostly because the priority is on main LI, but also because as a developper when you pay to commission an artist you want the result to have a high value in the game, and not be discovered in a 5-minute playthough. I'd love to be able to add some smaller side NSFW content at some point too.

 

[tanstaafl]

I don't even consider VNs games.

I'm pretty sure most people don't. I believe that the game thing is attached by sites and services so that they don't have to create a whole new category. I see this all the time "VNs aren't games" and yet I've very rarely seen the people who play them claim that they are games.

If I don't want gameplay I'll just watch porn.

Porn sucks these days. I miss vintage porn where they spent time and effort (kinda) creating stories and plots (kinda). These days video porn has a token bit of dialogue to set up one kink or another (What are you doing step-bro?) and then just get people who can barely read, let alone act, to do the scenes. Visual novels are the best format for creating a scenario these days.

 

[XforU]

Porn sucks these days. I miss vintage porn where they spent time and effort (kinda) creating stories and plots (kinda). These days video porn has a token bit of dialogue to set up one kink or another (What are you doing step-bro?) and then just get people who can barely read, let alone act, to do the scenes. Visual novels are the best format for creating a scenario these days.

There are some hentai series that have a decent amount of plot and a somewhat decent story, but yeah... Porn is just fucking these days.

There used to be some decent erotica back in the 2010s, but it's too softcore for most people.

 

[tanstaafl]

There are some hentai series that have a decent amount of plot and a somewhat decent story, but yeah... Porn is just fucking these days.

There used to be some decent erotica back in the 2010s, but it's too softcore for most people.

I follow a few hentai series and a couple doujin artists, but VNs/games(heh) are still the best outlet for me, because it allows my imagination and good art to combine into a good sweet spot...And then I load up steam and go get some good gameplay. Lately I've been spending time getting annoyed in PUBG, heh.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

~Snip~

Good luck on the game!

 

[lfgals1]

I think the folks talking about effort/reward balance are on to something.

I also think that the next level up is finding ways to make the 'effort' a rewarding part of the erotica loop even if it isn't the payoff. There are a lot of ways that gameplay can be used to tease, titilate, and ultimately build tension so the payoff hits harder.

It doesn't matter to me how good your shooter game or turn based strategy combat is if I am in the mood for erotica and it is just getting in the way.

 

[tanstaafl]

I think the folks talking about effort/reward balance are on to something.

Good god, no. Effort for my porn? Screw that. Give me a good scenario, some set up, some story to fill in the edges, then get on with the good stuff. If I wanted a good dopamine hit from effort/reward I'd just beat elden ring again.

 

[IBreedWives]

The issue is that if you eliminate grind completely, there risks being no actual game... then you might as well just browse images or videos on your favorite site. So a little bit of grind is probably unavoidable.

let me know porn videos with long stories that allow you to self insert and i will start doing that

to this point though, i only come across porn videos with a 5-10 minute "story" at the beginning of the scene and the rest is just sex

 

[XforU]

As expected. Different people like different things, but on F95 most people prefer VNs over porn and games.
On Steam gatcha porn games with gameplay are more popular.
I don't know about Itch tbh.
DLsite is full of shovelware RPGs.
Oppaiman is mainly VNs.
Porn and Hentai remain more popular overall.

Edit: The most popular adult game on steam (with 100k + players at the same time) is a fucking clicker lmao

 

[thedemongod95]

Who the fuck is downloading a smut game to grind and mentally challenge themselves. Jesus people.

 

[Flufftails]

I think the RPGM game Tina, Swordswoman of Scarlet Prison strikes a good balance. Enemies die when you touch them except for some bosses that you actually fight. That means there is no grinding and every fight advances the story, which is actually pretty good despite having a simple premise.

 

[Iexist]

Welp, since this thread was raised from the dead and it's the first time I'm seeing it... might as well add my 2 cents here.

When it comes to what the OP asked... quite frankly, the answer is "it depends". It depends on mood and time. Sometimes, I love to sink my teeth into a good combination of smut and gameplay, and sometimes I want to prioritize the smut over everything else. It's not a "one size fits all" thing for me.

I spent an ungodly amount of hours playing Venus Blood Hollow, collecting ALL the damn units and all their titles and all the damn items and so on and doing various dumb shit in the game and messing around with divisions and battalions. I exhausted the smut content for the game very early on, yet I still spent ages just playing and having fun. I've loved games like Alien Quest Eve and Night of Revenge, which are pretty damn heavy on the gameplay, regardless of the amount of smut they have on the side, essentially.

Yet, even then, I can still enjoy and appreciate games like the ones made by ONEONE1 and Acerola, where the gameplay mainly exists to complement the smut.

All that said...

I think the importance of gameplay depends on what kind of game you're making and what kind of story you're telling with your game.

Star Knightess Aura for example makes the gameplay basically part of its story-telling, what with the extremely limited resources and the impact of various choices on Aura. It integrates everything into one cohesive whole that works together. It's not perfect (nothing ever is), and it's an amazing experience if you can appreciate all of its elements... but I can't really blame the people that can't enjoy it because it's ultimately a hard game to figure out.

So how important is gameplay and/or grinding?

In truth, not at all. There's a reason why classic VNs are still popular. Some people just want semi-interactive stories without needing to worry about gameplay. Just reading and choosing.

What's important is putting something together that you can work on with passion, and understanding what kind of target audience you're making your game for. You can't please everyone. The perfect smut game doesn't exist. Even mediocre games have their niches for when you just want to play through something while your brain is turned off.

That doesn't mean people shouldn't aim for excellence... it just means that they should remember that one man's treasure is another man's trash.

 

[SinisterPortal]

Who the fuck is downloading a smut game to grind and mentally challenge themselves. Jesus people.

nobody likes grind but challenge? Why play games if you don't like challange? Read manga/watch hentai if you want just story and sex. Read an AVN. But all that has nothing to do with games, as games are all about challange and testing the player's skills.

Now, do sex scenes work well with actual games? I think yes! When you have a challange, it makes you more invested into what's happening on the screen, it makes the experience more immersive. The game just shouldn't be boring gameplay-wise - meaning things should constantly change - you get new skills, new situations, new challanges all the time - that's how you make a game entertaining. And then add h-scenes as a reward for the player. If the player gets entertained by a story, by interesting and non-repetative gameplay, and by steamy scenes - they will be much more satisfied than with just sex scenes alone.

 

[agelastos]

Who the fuck is downloading a smut game to grind and mentally challenge themselves. Jesus people.

The Vision of Christ that thou dost see
Is my Vision’s Greatest Enemy.
Thine has a great hook nose like thine;
Mine has a snub nose like to mine.
Thine is the friend of All Mankind;
Mine speaks in parables to the Blind.
Thine loves the same world that mine hates;
Thy Heaven doors are my Hell Gates.
Socrates taught what Melitus
Loathd as a Nation’s bitterest Curse;
And Caiphas was in his own Mind
A benefactor to Mankind.
Both read the Bible day & night,
But thou readst black where I read white.

or: different strokes for different folks.

 

[SinisterPortal]

Before I started trying to make my own game I never really understood why so many rpgmaker games have very little gameplay outside of generic puzzles, generic battles, and some picture / dialouge events. When I started developing I quickly realized just how hard it is to make cool maps, dynamic battle scenes, and unique events. Not only that, but that cost which can go up when making a game more unique than usually expected.

I still am trying myself to make my game fun and unique even if it risk being extremely difficult for me but I understand now that finding the right balance and executing it well is a huge challenge. I'm not personally a fan of day and night cycles and pushing boulders for a puzzle but I understand now that its these mechanics that slow down the progression between events and strecth out the gameplay playtime.

It is really interesting reading what everyone has to say, I will do my best to learn from it all.

Making a good rpg game is hard - wow! Who would have thought?!

RPG has always been one of the more difficult genres for developers.