On slow-burn games and raising up characters

[Droid Productions]

At some level, porn movies are cheap and plentiful, and usually comes with a scrub you can control (and better animation than most of us makes). So what brings you to games? For me it's personalities and characters and a chance to tell a deeper story. And gameplay, ideally. Sometimes that's just the kind of slow-burn "getting to know people" story that Light of My Life, or DeLuca Family does well, other times it's interesting gameplay that lets you tease out the scenes (Akabur does it really well). Sometimes it's just weird and wonderful, like Ponidog.

 

[MrFriendly]

To me a "Slow Burn" means exploring the relationships of the MC, their origins, their everyday life, having a plot that isn't just about who or when they fuck someone. A story that would be interesting regardless of the sexual content of the game and takes its time to build up to its conclusion. I don't want content that puts roadblocks in the way and says it is a slow burn, nor do I want to have to click through a daily routine to get a dribble of story or lewdity. The natural progression of the story should dictate when sex happens, it shouldn't be a requirement that a fuck scene take place prior to the end of act one.

I want the developer/writer to make me care what happens to characters and then make me want to have the MC have sex with them. I don't want to play a game where the MC is required to be in a sex scene and the player doesn't get a choice. That isn't a slow burn to me, a slow burn builds up to a sex scene that the player wants to see happen, that the player wants to choose to happen because we've gotten to know the MC and the people around them very well.

There are thousands of games that are fuck fantasies with tons of material to fap to but that shouldn't be the goal of a "Slow Burn" story. In a way it should be the antithesis of that concept, a game where the player feels a connection with the characters and then the characters have sex. It should be like reading a lewd version a Jane Austen novel, you get to know the characters, identify with them, admire them, and then they fuck like rabbits.

 

[freedom.call]

I like slow burn games, I also appreciate those devs who throw in some sex with less important/one time characters while I burn slowly towards my chosen one.

Unfortunately my chosen one is rarely the dev's chosen one!

 

[Anthony11553]

i don't mind people who like slowburns, but people who act like actually having sex in they're game is a "fuckfest" is annoying

 

[desmosome]

At the moment there are two premature bad ends *deaths* and 5 regular endings planned for the demo. Most routes share some common, unavoidable fragments that act like milestones. The MC has to go through them for the story to make sense, because several traits can't be chosen. Whatever he does, there are several factors that don't depend on him and will always happen.

Depending on his personality and the things he has done by then, they will have different effects/impact on his life.
The replayability thing has more to do with those decisions. Murdering someone, snitching or not on another character, get more or less attached to his mentor figures and following their advice or not has the potential of transforming him. Someone who plays by the rules, and takes things at face value won't have the same stats as an experienced backstabber.
Trying to make the MC a good, decent person despite his circumstances (when everyone is more or less grooming him to be a monster) offers different outcomes than playing him as an ambitious sociopath.
The same with a character who embraces magic and one who rejects it as something tainted and filthy.
And the sex scenes change, too.

That kinda stuff sounds really amazing, especially if you give options for darker paths and make it coherent to the overall plot. Just be weary of the potentially exponential increase in the girth of the story when too many branches are introduced.

You seem to have a handle on it though. You need to make ample use of these common nodes (or milestones as you call them) to converge the paths periodically. And probably try to refrain from creating too much chaos in a path, like killing off a major plot central character or something.

Good luck dude. By your description, the game seems right up my alley.

oh, and you got any previews for the art direction?

 

[Fliptoynk]

back then, I was looking for v novels that's more on romance, with interesting events that makes a connection to transpire. but most of all, I prefer to learn something from it such as describing the details of caressing her pleasure points, to foreplays. isn't it awesome to learn a technique from a plain but fast thinker, 5-incher, and still able too swoop the prom queen's feet?

sadly, they're relics! most macho vn's are about chads... what can I learn from a chad mc?! do he need caressing techniques? no! even his momma digs him after she accidentally saw his hung dong! what's the challenge there? none! it's always about choosing the right answer for the right twat. period. done. kaputs. how vn's these days are considered games????? I'll never know....

so I'm down to just looking at the screenies and if the assets are hot, go for it even if the story sssssucks!!!!! if the version number is lower than 1.0 or the game's development is no longer than 3 months, I avoid'em like a plague as I expect them to be blue ballers and I'm on a metered data.

sometimes, I'd rather burn the fucking forest than beating around the bush so I go to e-hentai.org for the cg's.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I don't mind a slow burn and sometimes even want it, but the game has to have either decent gameplay or excellent writing and an interesting premise to keep me invested. It's almost impossible in a story-focused VN. Even games which I like, such as AWAM, I find myself skipping through a lot of the scenes that involve characters/scenarios I don't care about, because let's face it, AWAM's basic premise is "upper-middle class family simulator". Something like Karryn's Prison on the other hand, I have no problem spending 2-3 hours setting her up for the fall I have planned for that particular playthrough.

Does dedicating an intro (of one or several chapters) to shaping their morals, preferences, initial abilities and beliefs sound appealing to you?
And if it does, what happens if the corruption the MC experiences at your hands is NOT of the sexual kind, but more in the shape of mental issues and traumas, religious fanaticism, prejudices and self-hate?

Well, does the player get to choose? Can you get different outcomes depending on your choices or is it just a wall of text to read through? Also, the quality of the writing matters a lot for such psychological themes.

 

[SpoiledPrince]

I'm really happy to see this thread back from the dead

i don't mind people who like slowburns, but people who act like actually having sex in they're game is a "fuckfest" is annoying

Nay, it was never my intention to say such things. That's the problem with the language barrier: we could transmit a different message that we intended to. Cut me some slack here
Now, about what I actually meant, it has more to do with immediate and delayed "rewards". If you hand a prize *sex scene* every 5, 10 minutes, the plot can't go very far. The characters aren't able to do many other things that make the game... an interesting game, because every time they try someone throws a cock *or a vulva* at them. They simply don't have time. I know I wouldn't lol.

Sometimes those sexual bits are the grind instead of the rest of scenes: you have to go through them to get to the places you are actually interested in reaching...

That kinda stuff sounds really amazing, especially if you give options for darker paths and make it coherent to the overall plot. Just be weary of the potentially exponential increase in the girth of the story when too many branches are introduced.

You seem to have a handle on it though. You need to make ample use of these common nodes (or milestones as you call them) to converge the paths periodically. And probably try to refrain from creating too much chaos in a path, like killing off a major plot central character or something.

Good luck dude. By your description, the game seems right up my alley.

oh, and you got any previews for the art direction?

Here you've got them *and info about the game, in addition*. I promise I have learned to make better hair since we started lol
https://f95zone.to/threads/dead-in-venice.43522/
I have had a lot of help by several people, especially my proofreader, who assisted me in directing the game, planning and organizing, because I'm completely new to all of this.

Let's hope people won't find the common nodes "a scam" and think their choices don't matter because they get to see them in several routes...

back then, I was looking for v novels that's more on romance, with interesting events that makes a connection to transpire. but most of all, I prefer to learn something from it such as describing the details of caressing her pleasure points, to foreplays. isn't it awesome to learn a technique from a plain but fast thinker, 5-incher, and still able too swoop the prom queen's feet?

sadly, they're relics! most macho vn's are about chads... what can I learn from a chad mc?! do he need caressing techniques? no! even his momma digs him after she accidentally saw his hung dong! what's the challenge there? none! it's always about choosing the right answer for the right twat. period. done. kaputs. how vn's these days are considered games????? I'll never know....

so I'm down to just looking at the screenies and if the assets are hot, go for it even if the story sssssucks!!!!! if the version number is lower than 1.0 or the game's development is no longer than 3 months, I avoid'em like a plague as I expect them to be blue ballers and I'm on a metered data.

sometimes, I'd rather burn the fucking forest than beating around the bush so I go to e-hentai.org for the cg's.

Well, it saddens me to say so, but practice makes the master, not reading. Porn is mostly fantasy and fake assumptions, funny commonplaces. Try and poke the cervix of some girl as they frequently describe in here and tell me what happens,please XD (Spoiler: those screams are not from pleasure lol). Same with prolapse and so on XD But you already know that.
So this is the least reliable media for learning useful tips. Amateur porn writing scene is full of "sex theorists", if you know what I mean.
Speaking of that, take Chad Thundercock's biggest recurring fantasy:a harem where every woman is happy and makeout with each other instead of being at each other's throats, or cutting the male's while he sleeps. Whoever is depicting a peaceful, non-confrontational cohabitation between attractive sexual rivals doesn't know females at all XD *Let alone if they are blood related...*

I don't mind a slow burn and sometimes even want it, but the game has to have either decent gameplay or excellent writing and an interesting premise to keep me invested. It's almost impossible in a story-focused VN. Even games which I like, such as AWAM, I find myself skipping through a lot of the scenes that involve characters/scenarios I don't care about, because let's face it, AWAM's basic premise is "upper-middle class family simulator". Something like Karryn's Prison on the other hand, I have no problem spending 2-3 hours setting her up for the fall I have planned for that particular playthrough.


Well, does the player get to choose? Can you get different outcomes depending on your choices or is it just a wall of text to read through? Also, the quality of the writing matters a lot for such psychological themes.

The writing part... Well, it's being taken care of. It's being written in Spanish and Italian and translated to English, with a cool proofreader to make it nice and smooth. I can't promise the whole thing will have the finesse only a native could give it, but efforts are being made in all fronts.
Skipping is sometimes unavoidable, I do it myself when playing other people's projects. There will always be characters and subplots that are more attractive than others. I feel a bit guilty, since a person has spent a lot of time and effort into writing it, but life's not fair and where them butts at?

Yeah, they get to choose how to react to things *unless you've got a trait that forces you to pick one kind of answer, but that's because you made other choices before*, what to say... Not in the sense of choosing every answer in a conversation *too much work for nothing* but more in the "what kind of conversation do you want to have?". Are you hot-head enough to say this or that? Do you want to avoid direct confrontation? Is it wise to ask for things that will cause you trouble? Beating dead horses is dangerous in the game, for example... people lose their patience and obviously nosy characters don't live long.

About the things than can't be changed... the MC has a natural tendecy to cruelty and delusions of grandeur, along with a morbid curiosity about human anatomy. How much he gets conditioned by his blood depends on the player, because he doesn't have to give in to his impulses or the suggestions his mentors make.
That said, the dark themes are dark for real, and probably won't be everybody's cup of tea, but is a known risk.

 

[desmosome]

Plot overview sounds pretty awesome. The Art is not particularly.... hmmm... sexy, no offense. However, it does look like it could fit the tone and atmosphere rather well with a bit more polish.

"...since Femdom and Heterosexual relationships are not really my thing..."

This line gave me a pause though haha. So your main interest are in the gay side of things?

 

[SpoiledPrince]

Plot overview sounds pretty awesome. The Art is not particularly.... hmmm... sexy, no offense. However, it does look like it could fit the tone and atmosphere rather well with a bit more polish.

"...since Femdom and Heterosexual relationships are not really my thing..."

This line gave me a pause though haha. So your main interest are in the gay side of things?

I'm just an amateur "artist", and I'm not going to lie: I was quite pleased to discover I could do a little more than stick figures I wish I could get someone for that, but free games mean no income, and that is not a very attractive working condition to say the least.
About the sexiness... they have already told me the women I draw are... a bit manly, but I find them average looking *bad art aside*. This kind of games usually show a particular set of facial features. A couple of months ago I adressed the (mock) issue of "samenosing" in a thread, because I find it very funny that while breats size, weight and all that change, the wide eyes, small nose, juicy lips pattern repeats ad infinitum. The same as with roid-beasts, gym rats and twinks in gay games.
Anyway, these are the humble attempts at realism of a guy that's learning to draw with his mouse, so I could be partially justifying my own incompetence under the pretense of looking for diversity...or not XD

Unless the characters are described as very beautiful/handsome, they will look more or less normal, and some of them will be on the mature side *you don't get to choose when your masters decide to make you a vampire, and get stuck the way you were*.

Yeah, I'm pretty much a gaymer, even if I intend to make the game bi-oriented. A long life must make people curious of what they are missing sooner or later! After all, most of MC's LI's are doomed to gruesome deaths *another feature that would probably frustrate some people* some at the hands of MC's enemies or MC himself, who generaly deals poorly with NTR, so you don't have to stick to them.
Also, a loud and proud homosexual life in the Middle Ages was not achievable. In some routes he'll be forced to marry and consumate the union before his family or die trying *but this won't be in the first release*. I think a marriage dynamic where you could befriend the missus and work together even if you see other people on the side could be interesting. Teaming with a clever, cunning lady who doesn't get the respect and recognition she deserves because she's not a male, for example.

I love when Devs throw me a bone and include at least a gay secondary character, so it's the least I could do in return: offering hetero plot, incestuous or otherwise. That said, I'm conscious of my limitations, so while romance *or obsesion over a girl* is doable, since it's the same as with a guy, I prefer if someone else writes the whole sexual liaison.

Sorry for the rant XD

 

[desmosome]

I'm just an amateur "artist", and I'm not going to lie: I was quite pleased to discover I could do a little more than stick figures I wish I could get someone for that, but free games mean no income, and that is not a very attractive working condition to say the least.
About the sexiness... they have already told me the women I draw are... a bit manly, but I find them average looking *bad art aside*. This kind of games usually show a particular set of facial features. A couple of months ago I adressed the (mock) issue of "samenosing" in a thread, because I find it very funny that while breats size, weight and all that change, the wide eyes, small nose, juicy lips pattern repeats ad infinitum. The same as with roid-beasts, gym rats and twinks in gay games.
Anyway, these are the humble attempts at realism of a guy that's learning to draw with his mouse, so I could be partially justifying my own incompetence under the pretense of looking for diversity...or not XD

Unless the characters are described as very beautiful/handsome, they will look more or less normal, and some of them will be on the mature side *you don't get to choose when your masters decide to make you a vampire, and get stuck the way you were*.

Yeah, I'm pretty much a gaymer, even if I intend to make the game bi-oriented. A long life must make people curious of what they are missing sooner or later! After all, most of MC's LI's are doomed to gruesome deaths *another feature that would probably frustrate some people* some at the hands of MC's enemies or MC himself, who generaly deals poorly with NTR, so you don't have to stick to them.
Also, a loud and proud homosexual life in the Middle Ages was not achievable. In some routes he'll be forced to marry and consumate the union before his family or die trying *but this won't be in the first release*. I think a marriage dynamic where you could befriend the missus and work together even if you see other people on the side could be interesting. Teaming with a clever, cunning lady who doesn't get the respect and recognition she deserves because she's not a male, for example.

I love when Devs throw me a bone and include at least a gay secondary character, so it's the least I could do in return: offering hetero plot, incestuous or otherwise. That said, I'm conscious of my limitations, so while romance *or obsesion over a girl* is doable, since it's the same as with a guy, I prefer if someone else writes the whole sexual liaison.

Sorry for the rant XD

For sure man. You do you. I would probably give it a go if it's possible to play a straight heterosexual dude. I think you have a story in mind and that's absolutely fine if gay scenarios are part of the core plot. I personally wouldnt be able to play it though haha. As much as I view myself a man of varied fetishes, gay is not something I can work with. The project sounds really interesting though, and I hope you are making headway with the help you've gotten. Good luck!

 

[SpoiledPrince]

For sure man. You do you. I would probably give it a go if it's possible to play a straight heterosexual dude. I think you have a story in mind and that's absolutely fine if gay scenarios are part of the core plot. I personally wouldnt be able to play it though haha. As much as I view myself a man of varied fetishes, gay is not something I can work with. The project sounds really interesting though, and I hope you are making headway with the help you've gotten. Good luck!

A couple of purely hetero routes are available with the current choices... but very bad (skippable) things could happen to those, too. Also there's a chance for zero sex in one of the routes. Sometimes you just don't like any LI, and that's fine Being force-fed a LI is uncomfortable. Some characters will come onto the MC, but accepting the offer is not mandatory.
Thanks for the good wishes!

 

[i107760]

I love slow burning romance stories, especially when it's an incest story. I need the build up to be solid, for there to be a taboo feeling before things become sexual. It needs to be well written of course, otherwise it gets boring. Trying my best in my own text-only game, to have it build up slowly and be well written enough to have it be interesting, despite a lack of sexual content. Getting a good reception, so there definitely is an audience for a story that is slower and focuses on the build up between characters.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Well, it saddens me to say so, but practice makes the master, not reading. Porn is mostly fantasy and fake assumptions, funny commonplaces. Try and poke the cervix of some girl as they frequently describe in here and tell me what happens,please XD (Spoiler: those screams are not from pleasure lol). Same with prolapse and so on XD But you already know that.
So this is the least reliable media for learning useful tips. Amateur porn writing scene is full of "sex theorists", if you know what I mean.
Speaking of that, take Chad Thundercock's biggest recurring fantasy:a harem where every woman is happy and makeout with each other instead of being at each other's throats, or cutting the male's while he sleeps. Whoever is depicting a peaceful, non-confrontational cohabitation between attractive sexual rivals doesn't know females at all XD *Let alone if they are blood related...*

it is from a certain section of an old tabloid that I learned a pickup line that made me reach base b and the rest went all to simping(shoot me smh) until street fighter(with voices! imagine that) and billiard ruined maaah life(and saved me later) back in high... so reading also helped me boost my confidence. I was abit hoping to learn some tips from visual novels but yeah, as you said, porn games are different. I should've noticed that since cobra mission. I mean, it's hilarious to use a myriad of tools to tickle the ladies in-game! how the hell mc carry all of'em in the field in the first place? well pfft I dun give a squat.

 

[tanstaafl]

Some of those options don't take into account bad writing, overly verbose descriptions, etc. I just got done with a game where a single conversation on a single image with minimally changing renders would take 30-40 clicks. And this was for every single conversation. It wasn't plot progression or character progression, it was the devs idea of what seduction sounded like and it was booooooring.

On the flip side, if a dev writer is good at what they do a lot of text can be amazing as well. A writer that has a well mapped out game with good writing can accomplish amazing things. If the story is compelling enough sometimes I won't even remember I'm playing a porn game until the boobies come out. That's my favorite kind of AVN.