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On the morality of porn

tadalaphoenix

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True, but what are the odds of changing what's essentially human's nature? I'd say close to none.
The great majority of people that approve of porn wouldn't want a whore as a daughter or mother, they might openly say "Sure, there's nothing wrong with it", but more often than not it's a lie to appear as progressive.
That's an interesting topic to touch on - whether or not that's "human nature", and whether we can change our nature or not

I guess stretching the line, it could be traced as "nature" if we think that it's about an instinct of "protecting your bloodline".

What's your POV on this? Why do you say not wanting loved ones to be sex workers is natural, and not a social construct?
 
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Winterfire

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What's your POV on this? Why do you say not wanting loved ones to be sex workers is natural, and not a social construct?
History and personal views, mostly. Also, hearsay... To the point that I believe if I were to ask 100 random people if they'd be okay to have a whore as a daughter/mother (and they couldn't lie), I am sure the great majority would reply with a "Hell no".

In general, we can all say porn is degrading. No one would want to see a loved one to be degraded and treated as an object.
Intimacy should be a private act of love in my opinion.

However, this isn't a fantasy world, prostitutes have always existed and will always exist, that's why despite my personal opinions, I am against banning Onlyfans/Prostitution. Nothing good comes off prohibiting them.
Legal prostitution is always better than illegal one which puts women to harm and abuse, if you can't realistically eliminate something, you should at the very least control it and offer a save environment (Which happens to be true for Alcohol and Drugs as well).
 

tadalaphoenix

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History and personal views, mostly. Also, hearsay... To the point that I believe if I were to ask 100 random people if they'd be okay to have a whore as a daughter/mother (and they couldn't lie), I am sure the great majority would reply with a "Hell no".

In general, we can all say porn is degrading. No one would want to see a loved one to be degraded and treated as an object.
Intimacy should be a private act of love in my opinion.

However, this isn't a fantasy world, prostitutes have always existed and will always exist, that's why despite my personal opinions, I am against banning Onlyfans/Prostitution. Nothing good comes off prohibiting them.
Legal prostitution is always better than illegal one which puts women to harm and abuse, if you can't realistically eliminate something, you should at the very least control it and offer a save environment (Which happens to be true for Alcohol and Drugs as well).
Cool, that's a very pragmatic view
 
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Semetrika

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[sorry for the double post]


And here, the "can" is really important.

Most couple who do amateur porn, through OnlyFans by example, have no issue with porn. It's done with mutual respect, both are consenting, and most of the time they take pleasure doing it. Cherry on the cake, it provide a bit more income in their life, when not representing their full income, while not really having drawback.
I aim to professional porn actors in big studios, but i forgot amateur scenes.
 
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I've never understood these arrogant people who try to think about morality, what's good and what's not. Can't you just be an ordinary person? not a God.
 

tadalaphoenix

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I've never understood these arrogant people who try to think about morality, what's good and what's not. Can't you just be an ordinary person? not a God.
lol - it's called philosophy

and it is very important to think about what's good and what's not; plus I didn't judge anyone
 

anne O'nymous

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Honestly not sure how my conclusion leads to this lol
Are you for real?

Baby, I'm a grown adult, I can think by myself and don't need you to do it.
Your conclusion have nothing to do with "this", that is my answer to your conclusion.


- are you pro banning drugs?
There's absolutely nothing in my post that can tell you what is my position regarding drugs...
And answering you would derail the thread.


I mean, you literally go to a doctor and they recommend you some drugs.
They prescribe you medicine, to heal your disease. Not everyone live in a country where doctors make an earning by dealing Oxycodone.


Plus, alcohol, which is clearly much more "drug" in this sense, is not illegal in most places - although restricted to minors, just like porn
Have you read what I wrote, then thought about it, or are you just typing random thoughts that cross your mind?
Anyway, if you wanted an example, sugar is a way more stronger drug that alcohol, and not restricted.


I think many people here are tying the word "drug" to some substances that are heavily abused like heroin - not sure why, when I clearly mentioned e.g. weed, alcohol and sugar as drugs... hmm, maybe the word "drug" is heavier in English than I thought
They are doing it, because it's what drugs are.

Yes, weed is a drug, and yes again, alcohol is one, but there's a reason why many countries discriminate between "hard" and "soft" drugs. The first one being inherently addictive, the second being just psychoactive.

And it happen that, as I said, everything can trigger a chemical reaction near to the effect of a drug, something that lead to the compulsive stamp collectors I used as example. [ ]
The said compulsive collectors will have a dopamine release when they works on their collection, and I don't even talk about the adrenaline release when they are chasing "the" stamp they seek for. Same for workout or running that, unlike compulsive behavior, don't even necessitate a hijacking of the Dopamine process since it's naturally released by the action.
How an individual will react will then depend on his own life. When "the action", or soft drug use, is the highest Dopamine release they face, it will turn into an addiction that, as I said, will be purely identical to the one induced by hard drugs.
Same when they have period of intense release interspersed by, more or less long, period of regular release, like high level athlete by example. This can lead to drug-like compulsive behavior (collection, workout, alcohol free partying, sex, etc.) due to their need to fill those low periods with something that provide an equivalent experience to what they experience during the high period of their life.

Yet, while having the same effect, both in terms of reward as in terms of addiction, than drugs, this doesn't mean that workout, running, sex, collections, and all, are drugs. And the same apply to porn consumption. It's not because something can be turned into a drug-like habit, and everything can be turned that way, that this something is a drug.
What mean that, no, unlike what you said in your conclusion, porn is not a drug, it's consumption being just one of the thousands totally innocent activities that can be turned into one.
 

tadalaphoenix

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Are you for real?

Baby, I'm a grown adult, I can think by myself and don't need you to do it.
Your conclusion have nothing to do with "this", that is my answer to your conclusion.
Ah, yes, I can see where you're coming from and I can see what you mean in your tagline now

To this post I would go on to talk about the reason for sharing thoughts, philosophical debates and analogies.

But yeah, I don't feel like entertaining grumpy rebuttals on semantics... have a good day
 
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Jaike

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Ah, yes, I can see where you're coming from and I can see what you mean in your tagline now

To this post I would go on to talk about the reason for sharing thoughts, philosophical debates and analogies.

But yeah, I don't feel like entertaining grumpy rebuttals on semantics... have a good day
Welcome to general, man. That's gonna happen a lot.
Should've put up the "no Annies allowed" sign... else l'ours mal léché crawls in.
 

morphnet

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Onlyfans is making porn careers much more accessible to women. If every girl can whore herself out on the internet after a few minutes of effort, you're gonna have more whores.
Not sure why you and the others keep talking about onlyfan? You are all talking as if sites like live jasmin and thousands of others haven't been around for the last two decades plus.




In the past they'd have to deal with sleazy disgusting guys and that would be a natural deterrent for the more sane/less desperate women to get into porn.
For someone with such a wide opinion on the topic you've clearly never been in a cam chat room. Also, and I am asking not just assuming here, but are you saying or implying that women have to be less sane or some how desperate to do cam shows / live porn?

Completely agree, especially younger women with the illusion that Onlyfans is a get-rich quick scheme.
That's not really how it works though. The general trend is to work across multiple platforms, using sites like insta and X and even youtube to advertise and monitize softer content and then use other cams / service sites for harder / riskier content. Some even dual stream running soft content on say kick while streaming a second cam on other sites.

So it's not really seeing "onlyfans as a get-rich quick scheme"

When you sell your body online, you pretty much ruin your life and the chance to have a normal life for good.
Also not really true, unless they become very famous or involved in a scandal etc. many of them have stated they lead ordinary lives because most, if not all people in the areas they live don't know what they do for a living. Many of them talk about or answer questions about this kind of thing in the normal / soft streams.

That said, there are many stories of models / performers getting stalkers or over zealous fans and that can not only ruin their lives but also be incredibly dangerous.
 

Winterfire

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That's not really how it works though. The general trend is to work across multiple platforms, using sites like insta and X and even youtube to advertise and monitize softer content and then use other cams / service sites for harder / riskier content. Some even dual stream running soft content on say kick while streaming a second cam on other sites.

So it's not really seeing "onlyfans as a get-rich quick scheme"
I'm not sure how it works as I am not interested in that stuff, I wasn't even aware you could stream on onlyfans.
However, I do know that the average income for onlyfans is a little over 100 bucks. Do they manage to hit perhaps 1k by using all other platforms?

I'm not sure if that's worth selling your dignity and ruin your image for the rest of your life, at the very least some women that regret their choices would agree with me.


Also not really true, unless they become very famous or involved in a scandal etc. many of them have stated they lead ordinary lives because most, if not all people in the areas they live don't know what they do for a living. Many of them talk about or answer questions about this kind of thing in the normal / soft streams.
If they're smart enough to cover their identity (such as not showing their face), it makes sense to me.
However, if they use their real name or someone doxes them, it's pretty much over. Big risk.


That said, there are many stories of models / performers getting stalkers or over zealous fans and that can not only ruin their lives but also be incredibly dangerous.
100%, and the worse part is that it's not because they're prostitutes, so you can't even argue that they could have prevented it by avoiding to sell their dignity online/irl.
A woman could be innocently streaming without doing anything bad, or even exist online, and creeps would do their thing, with some taking it IRL by stalking. In fact, most of those news I've heard happened to women that weren't whores.

It's the sad reality, and it's not even something you can prevent. Granted, it happens to men as well, but at a much smaller rate.
 
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eaudecologne

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Not sure why you and the others keep talking about onlyfan? You are all talking as if sites like live jasmin and thousands of others haven't been around for the last two decades plus.


Someone brought it up so that's what I discussed. Yup cam sites exist. As for the other thing yeah I'd say women who go into porn are more financially or mentally vulnerable. I meant studio porn in the past where they'd have to deal with sleazy rapist porn producers. I think only desperate or similar women were willing to deal with those types.
 

Living In A Lewd World

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True, but what are the odds of changing what's essentially human's nature? I'd say close to none.
The great majority of people that approve of porn wouldn't want a whore as a daughter or mother, they might openly say "Sure, there's nothing wrong with it", but more often than not it's a lie to appear as progressive.
I think the only part of this that could be called "human nature" is that most men tend to have a higher sex drive than most women, especially in their youth. But even that shifts with age: women’s libido often increases in their 30s and 40s, while men’s tends to decline.

The rest, our social systems, norms, and values around sex, are historically developed responses to managing that imbalance. Monogamy, for example, is a cultural convention, not a law of nature. And it’s far from universal, even across different points in Western history.

In fact, society’s standards on sexuality have changed a lot in just the last 60 years. Divorce used to be taboo, being single after a certain age was frowned upon, and premarital sex was heavily stigmatized. Today, that’s no longer the case in many places.

Also, if you look into truly progressive circles, you’ll find people, both women and men, working in porn who are proud of what they do. There are even porn film festivals where people gather to watch and discuss explicit films that are artistic, political, or experimental (often queer, sometimes strange, but mostly interesting).

One example is the . If you ever have the chance to attend something like that, it can be eye-opening. The “lewd world” really isn’t just black and white.


I am too dumb to say for sure whether Porn by itself can be damaging or not, I'd say yes, but I'd be ready to be proven wrong.
At the very least when it comes to Adult Games, you already start off with knowing that it's unrealistic fiction... When it comes to porn, especially younger adult audience, can set off some unrealistic expactations and views.
As for Onlyfans, there's the whole parasocial relationship which can also be quite harmful.
In both cases, you're dealing with intense content, and sure, it might affect certain people negatively, but most people are able to process it without any issues.

That said, I do think porn and lewd games probably engage different aspects of the psyche. Porn leans more on realism and visual immediacy, while games are more about interactivity and player agency. Both can shape expectations in their own ways, but I wouldn't be quick to say one is clearly more intense than the other. If anything, they just affect people differently, and how someone interprets either one depends a lot on their mindset, context, and media literacy.

And regarding parasocial relationships, just look at how many people might want to kill a dev, if their most beloved Waifu in a Harem-Game looks at another man than the MC. That’s textbook parasocial behavior: a one-sided emotional connection taken to an unhealthy level. So the idea that porn is somehow uniquely harmful while adult games are "safer" doesn’t really hold up. The medium may differ, but the psychological dynamics can be very similar.

In general, we can all say porn is degrading. No one would want to see a loved one to be degraded and treated as an object.
Intimacy should be a private act of love in my opinion.
That depends entirely on the kind of porn you’re talking about.

There is surely lots of degrading mainstream porn out there. But look at "The good girl" from Erika Lust. A very sensitive porn-movie, written by a woman, very well done and as far as I know, available for free on her website:



And if you look into the BDSM- and BDSM-Porn-Scene. People there are even celebrating degredation. Totally consensual.

However, this isn't a fantasy world, prostitutes have always existed and will always exist, that's why despite my personal opinions, I am against banning Onlyfans/Prostitution. Nothing good comes off prohibiting them.
Legal prostitution is always better than illegal one which puts women to harm and abuse, if you can't realistically eliminate something, you should at the very least control it and offer a save environment (Which happens to be true for Alcohol and Drugs as well).
That’s absolutely the point. We can’t (and at least in my eyes shouldn't) eliminate and sex work, but we should reduce harm on those who do them by making it legal, regulated, and safe. And that’s ultimately a much more humane and realistic approach than moral condemnation or prohibition.

***

Sorry for the long post, but this topic really engages me, especially since adult actresses and sex workers, even in some Western countries, still face not only heavy social stigma but also legal challenges. And for every star making millions on OnlyFans, there are many more who struggle just to pay their rent, if they can at all. Still, many of them, both women and men, do their work proudly and with a lot of passion, especially among indie performers and ethical porn creators, who often struggle the most.
 

MissCougar

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Yes. And. Yes.

I don't like real porn with real people. I think it's yucky, unless it's like softcore or super arty or something.

I also think there is a huge misrepresentation of women in porn and how it "hurts" them. I feel like 30 years ago maybe, but today women are all over it, leading the charge with stuff like onlyfans, etc. I used to do some small camming myself back in the day. It was like fairly easy money.

I do like stories and anime and art type porn because it feels like it is not demeaning anyone. And I'm not visualizing or creating this weird infatuation with a real person who doesn't and will never know me or care about me. Like the simp thing feels real dangerous for people but likely mostly men.

A lot of the onlyfans stuff feels like it's worst for the simp, it's bad for the creator but it's like gambling for the simp, always needing that next picture or video and the next will be the big orgasm or something it seems.

But it is an industry as well. If people weren't buying it, nobody would be making it. If there is an industry for something I think it is what it is. As long as it's grown adults participating I don't care what they do.

It's not like people won't find some sort of addiction to get hooked on. Porn is just another one of many things for people. use it in limited amounts or in a good way, and it's whatever.

I do feel like porn though does cut down on sexual assaults. If there was no porn and the only way for people to get some they may take dangerous actions. I don't want to live in a world full of sexually frustrated men personally.
 

morphnet

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I'm not sure how it works as I am not interested in that stuff, I wasn't even aware you could stream on onlyfans.
However, I do know that the average income for onlyfans is a little over 100 bucks. Do they manage to hit perhaps 1k by using all other platforms?


The average it seems is they make between 2k - 4k a month. Also there are many different types. Some go the teasing route, others go flashing / stripping and some even go for the fake slips here and there. There are many that make a decent to good living never even showing anything just doing skimpy bikini streams and try-ons as well as selling non-nude PPV's, clips and photos taken during the filming / streaming and standalone photo sets.

I'm not sure if that's worth selling your dignity and ruin your image for the rest of your life, at the very least some women that regret their choices would agree with me.
I'm sure some would but then again it is also only some that go hardcore etc. There are just as many, if not more that stick to soft content or just teasing content. There are also many that have supportive families and friends whether they are doing HC or SC or erotic / teasing.

Plus "selling their dignity" or "ruining their image" is a matter of perspective.

If they're smart enough to cover their identity (such as not showing their face), it makes sense to me.
However, if they use their real name or someone doxes them, it's pretty much over. Big risk.
Although I'm sure there must be some who've made that mistake, I've never seen one that uses their real name. All that I've seen / heard of use "stage / performer" names and many have more than 2.

It's the sad reality, and it's not even something you can prevent. Granted, it happens to men as well, but at a much smaller rate.
Actually you would be surprised. It is smaller but also not very accurate because many men don't report it and some have said that they weren't taken seriously when the did report it.



Stalking:

  • About one in 17 men in the U.S. were victims of stalking at some point in their lifetime.
  • Nearly 41% of male victims first experienced stalking before age 25.



So while women are about twice as likely to be stalked, the numbers for men are still very high and very inaccurate.

Someone brought it up so that's what I discussed. Yup cam sites exist.
But your assertion that "Onlyfans is making porn careers much more accessible to women" is inaccurate and incorrect.

As for the other thing yeah I'd say women who go into porn are more financially or mentally vulnerable.
Are you separating porn, amateur "for sale" / sharing, camming HC, camming SC and erotic etc. presence?

I meant studio porn in the past where they'd have to deal with sleazy rapist porn producers. I think only desperate or similar women were willing to deal with those types.
That's a very broad generalization. While it is true that there are some truly horrific stories that come out of the porn industry, it is not fair to paint the whole industry in that light. Just like it's not good to generalize and paint all performers in the same light.
 

eaudecologne

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That's a very broad generalization. While it is true that there are some truly horrific stories that come out of the porn industry, it is not fair to paint the whole industry in that light. Just like it's not good to generalize and paint all performers in the same light.
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Generalization is.... le bad.