VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.6] [Eva Kiss]

[Kali_K]

True, and both Cindy and Alison offer to explore forbidden taboos in relationships that are unwanted IRL, but tempting to try out in fiction. Why you dismiss this interest as "deplorable", "terrible", and "superficial" is beyond me. Don't kink shame and/or try to differentiate between reality and fiction?

Forbidden taboos? The Cindy route is infidelity, that's not a taboo. If Cindy and Wade were in an open relationship then sure, there's probably an argument to be made that would classify as such but they're not, it's simple cheating. As for Alison, what on earth is considered taboo with her route? A threesome? Unless you have Ian already dating someone, then all participants are single and I fail to see why something as simple as this would constitute such a label. I obviously have no idea which route you took on your playthrough and perhaps there are elements to those characters stories that I haven't experienced but absolutely nothing I said constitutes 'kink shaming' or anything even remotely of that nature.

Additionally, there was no mention or judgement being passed on any of the sexual actions that any characters involved themselves in - I merely pointed out their personalities. I think you're perhaps misconstruing my intention and have thus over-reached with your accusations and condemnation.

 

[bauman]

The Cindy route is infidelity, that's not a taboo.

It's good to know that 4th-century North African Adamites post on this board, too.

 

[Kali_K]

It's good to know that 4th-century North African Adamites post on this board, too.

Ok, you got me there, that was poor phrasing on my part. My intention was to convey that infidelity is just that, it is cheating on a partner, something that is considered 'wrong' to most folk and therefore wouldn't necessarily qualify as being taboo, which if I recall is considered more as something that's prohibited or restricted by social custom(s). Infidelity isn't prohibited or restricted as such, anyone is capable of doing so, it's a test of character whether they do so or not, which leads to a breakdown of trust between two (or possibly more) people. I just don't personally think it fits the label of 'taboo'.

Hopefully that clarifies my poorly worded statement from earlier.

 

[| Vee |]

...Infidelity isn't prohibited or restricted...

But it is prohibited and restricted in many places/countries. Heck there are done murders on these things. This is not really "wrong" but a Taboo in many countries.

 

[| Vee |]

To me, the most attractive things about Holly are her innocence, awkwardness, nerdiness and "purity" (of character, I don't mean it in a sexual way). If you change that you get a less attractive, less charismatic Lena.

I agree. I love nerdy, shyly awkward characters too.

But I think the ideal way would be solving her self-worth issues without changing what makes her unique.

But how this story is going on, every character is evolving in some sense, and people do change with time, Holly clearly has those attributes of her from before the change and some added ones after the change too. Overall, it is player's choice how he is changing Holly but nonetheless Holly has those both parts in her now. And that is a good thing it is making her character more vibrant.

 

[Kali_K]

But it is prohibited and restricted in many places/countries. Heck there are done murders on these things. This is not really "wrong" but a Taboo in many countries.

That's a fair point and one I won't argue, however, it is somewhat taking it out of context as the game is clearly set in a 'Westernised' setting, with those societal standards being 'the norm'. Also, I only even mentioned that in an effort to defend myself from someone falsely accusing me of 'kink shaming'.

Perhaps everyone's time would be better served in returning this thread to praising this wonderful game that we're fortunate enough to share such topics of conversations over?

 

[LoneWaker59]

Has anyone seen in the game's code what the best dialogue option with Gillian is? I think the first option is the right one for those interested in her, Ian saying "I'm over you" she says something like "I still want to be part of your life".

In the other options "I still think about you" or "you fucked me up" she just says "sorry" and Emma interrupts (except the first choice).

 

[ffive]

Depends what you mean by the best option. Ian has option to either state he's moved on, indicate he hasn't (the heart option) or leave things in the air. (with either neutral or negative attitude)

 

[splinedust]

I would so pissed if this happens im not even kidding.

lol why?

I mean, really, why would that upset you?

 

[Fellas]

There's a subtle difference of how Gillian reacts to whether Ian is in a committed relationship or not. Gillian simply responds "Oh" when hearing Ian is in a committed relationship. A bit different response for casual Ian, where she answers "I see, sounds good". My take from it is that Gillian seems happier when she knows that Ian hasn't had serious relationship.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Has anyone seen in the game's code what the best dialogue option with Gillian is? I think the first option is the right one for those interested in her, Ian saying "I'm over you" she says something like "I still want to be part of your life".

In the other options "I still think about you" or "you fucked me up" she just says "sorry" and Emma interrupts (except the first choice).

Nah, "I still think about you" is marked with a heart and after that Ian refuses to go to the bar and is very pensive.

 

[lipe2410]

It's specific cause it's based on real story and I am alright.

Well, all that matters is your well-being
Good to know. Stay safe

 

[fatpussy123]

There's a subtle difference of how Gillian reacts to whether Ian is in a committed relationship or not. Gillian simply responds "Oh" when hearing Ian is in a committed relationship. A bit different response for casual Ian, where she answers "I see, sounds good". My take from it is that Gillian seems happier when she knows that Ian hasn't had serious relationship.

So if Ian is dating someone and he hits on her she says "oh", but if he's single she's more interested? I think in all options, if Ian says he has moved on she pushes to meet up for coffee.

 

[ffive]

There's a subtle difference of how Gillian reacts to whether Ian is in a committed relationship or not. Gillian simply responds "Oh" when hearing Ian is in a committed relationship. A bit different response for casual Ian, where she answers "I see, sounds good". My take from it is that Gillian seems happier when she knows that Ian hasn't had serious relationship.

It doesn't quite work this way. The "Oh." thing only happens if Ian is specifically in close relationship with Lena. For other Ians, both the ones who are in close relationship with another girl or just hooking up, it's some variant of "Oh/I see. Sounds good/nice." So i wouldn't really read too much into it.

So if Ian is dating someone and he hits on her she says "oh", but if he's single she's more interested? I think in all options, if Ian says he has moved on she pushes to meet up for coffee.

The coffee thing hinges strictly (and only) on Ian telling Gillian he's made his peace. I imagine it makes sense simply because it's the only sort of Ian that'd make Gillian feel like he might be safe to talk with, without him suddenly pulling a psycho Axel.

 

[fatpussy123]

It doesn't quite work this way. The "Oh." thing only happens if Ian is specifically in close relationship with Lena. For other Ians, both the ones who are in close relationship with another girl or just hooking up, it's some variant of "Oh/I see. Sounds good/nice." So i wouldn't really read too much into it.


The coffee thing hinges strictly (and only) on Ian telling Gillian he's made his peace. I imagine it makes sense simply because it's the only sort of Ian that'd make Gillian feel like he might be safe to talk with, without him suddenly pulling a psycho Axel.

Doubt she expects a full Axel out of Ian cuz I don't think Ian ever showed that kind of behaviour towards her, but I can definitely see her not wanting Ian to come for coffee expecting something.

I wonder then why she has different reaction to Ian not being over depending on his relationship status. I get the "oh" reaction, she's worried that her actions may cause problems down the road in Ian's relationship, but what is meant by the "sounds good"? Is that her just giving a neutral answer to someone she hopes moves on?

We know she'll most likely have a route with Ian because of her lewd face included in the game's files, but I wonder if the only way to get it will be to first be over her and then rekindle things at the coffee date.

 

[ffive]

Is that her just giving a neutral answer to someone she hopes moves on?

That'd be my reading of it, yeah. "I see, sounds good (that you're moving on)" or something along these lines.

I think having a route that depends on Ian going all NOPE, FORGET IT, DO NOT WANT at the beginning of the game (that dialogue option requires burning Gillian's pictures and willpoint) as opposed to explicitly selecting "i still want that" would be extremely counter-intuitive on the player, since it'd be like the literal opposite of how every other route works in the game.

As far as i can tell, the game plays this choice straight, i.e. Ian who burnt the pics and selected option he's moved on acts genuinely as if he's moved on, with zero intention of actually having anything to do with Gillian anymore. As opposed to Ian who selects the heart option.

 

[Lorenz1]

So yep, female popularity poll is pretty much over, so...



Is anyone surprised? At all?

 

[fatpussy123]

That'd be my reading of it, yeah. "I see, sounds good (that you're moving on)" or something along these lines.

I think having a route that depends on Ian going all NOPE, FORGET IT, DO NOT WANT at the beginning of the game (that dialogue option requires burning Gillian's pictures and willpoint) as opposed to explicitly selecting "i still want that" would be extremely counter-intuitive on the player, since it'd be like the literal opposite of how every other route works in the game.

As far as i can tell, the game plays this choice straight, i.e. Ian who burnt the pics and selected option he's moved on acts genuinely as if he's moved on, with zero intention of actually having anything to do with Gillian anymore. As opposed to Ian who selects the heart option.

About it being counterintuitive, doesn't the game already have something like that with the Minerva route? You need to be antagonistic towards her and that gets you the route. To me the Gillian thing makes the same amount of sense. She isn't attracted (or is less attracted) to an Ian who is simping for her months after break up. The Ian who has moved on can be more desirable as he displays maturity and a lack of desperation. As for Ian who has moved on, him making moves on Gillian could be a result of him no longer holding her cheating against him and thus just seeing it as a hookup. There are other instances in the game where Ian can express disinterest in a girl and later sleep with them, namely Lena and Alison.

 

[ffive]

About it being counterintuitive, doesn't the game already have something like that with the Minerva route? You need to be antagonistic towards her and that gets you the route.

I'd say Ian/Minerva is more of "a domme wannabe getting tables turned on her and submitting" route that's pretty clear about its nature -- afaict the game on this route doesn't provide you with any heart options that would actually result in losing any chance at romance with Minerva when picked. At least as far as the choice icons go, the game is always consistent.

The Ian who has moved on can be more desirable as he displays maturity and a lack of desperation. As for Ian who has moved on, him making moves on Gillian could be a result of him no longer holding her cheating against him and thus just seeing it as a hookup.

"I no longer give a fuck about you" which is what true moving on boils down to isn't a display of maturity. It's just a display of what it says, that one no longer gives a fuck about the person. Losing interest and maturity are largely unrelated. It'd be then especially immature if Ian started to try to hook up with Gillian -- the only thing he'd really achieve this way would be to make himself look like Axel Lite, so desperate he'd claim one thing but really want another. I don't see Gillian really entertaining this.

There are other instances in the game where Ian can express disinterest in a girl and later sleep with them, namely Lena and Alison.

I think it's quite different in intensity -- Ian is either given two options and focusing on one means he can't purse the other, or he can says he isn't interested, but it's far cry from explicitly selecting he wants nothing to do with the girl in question, that he has moved on and he doesn't want to think about her at all. Something the game obeys with both internal monologues and by actually removing Gillian-related content (Ian who has selected to move on doesn't get the "cheating Gillian" dream in Ch.11 as well as the earlier one, e.g.)

But just to be my own devil's advocate, on the other hand the dream Ian gets in Ch.11 if he's chosen to move on in Ch.3 has the dream Gillian talk how "It doesn't matter whose fault it was" and how she "wants to suffer together with Ian" and won't Ian please take her back. So, who knows. Guess we'll see, but i think it'd be really poor idea to effectively lie to the player about the meaning of icons which are supposed to remove ambiguity from provided options.

 

[| Vee |]

I think it's quite different in intensity -- Ian is either given two options and focusing on one means he can't purse the other, or he can says he isn't interested, but it's far cry from explicitly selecting he wants nothing to do with the girl in question, that he has moved on and he doesn't want to think about her at all. Something the game obeys with both internal monologues and by actually removing Gillian-related content (Ian who has selected to move on doesn't get the "cheating Gillian" dream in Ch.11 as well as the earlier one, e.g.)

There might be a route for Ian where Gillian(Chameleon) is overthinking and than begin to obsess with the fact that "How can Ian move on so quickly/easily. He doesn't miss me? or Was I not good enough for him that he doesn't remember those times we had together?" shit like that. We see how many girls obsess with this very same behavior. This can be a stretch too but things can also take quite a turn around. Who knows!