VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.6] [Eva Kiss]

4.60 star(s) 366 Votes
Discussion Reviews (366)
D

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,430
5,735
selberdreher said:
Well, i see your argument, but i am not sure if this applies to ORS.
In games which try to actually give their characters a personality and background, like ORS or for instance Pale Carnations, i tend to assume, that even if the realized events are ultimately shaped by our choices, they are still the expression of the characters baseline personality.
So if an event occurs, which is seemingly out-of-character, i would search for traits in that person which allow to realign those events to be consistent with a given personality.

In Alisons case, she asks Ian to accompany her to the weekend trip - which on one occasion he accepts and on another declines -, because she likes him, at least that's the impression i've got (why else would she ask him?).
We have seen on quite a few occasions, that she would prefer Ian over Jeremy, but is always very quick to settle with the second best option, if Ian isn't available. And she isn't discreet about it, which i would kind of expect, if she doesn't want to ruin her chances with him, because not too many guys like sloppy seconds or go for the girl of a friend.
I have no problem with her doing that, she is free to bang anyone, since she isn't in a relationship. That's not my problem here.

However, i do believe her behaviour is only consistent with a character, who quickly acts out if she is displeased or discontent with something like a relationship or an unfavourable outcome (like in her career).
Basically "Look Ian, if you don't want me, there is always J with his BBC i can slave over!" or "I don't get the recognition in my workplace that i deserve, so there has to be an intrigue against me!" or "Why is he talking to that looser Perry, my problems deserve much more attention!"
Which also sheds a different light on her last relationship with Milo, the jealous angry little man, with whom she was unhappy. Like i said before, i am not sure if his jealousy was completely unfounded.

Everyone who prefers Alison over Cindy is by all means welcome to do so, but i believe you need to keep Alison happy at all costs, else she turns into the biggest cheating slut (aside from Lena if we play her that way) in the game.
And i honestly don't know if keeping Alison happy is easier than to accomodate Princess Cindy.

Making Alison happy would probably include to settle down with her and have some babies, which isn't outlandish for a end- twenty something woman, because of course her biological clock is ticking.
But i don't see Ian at his current stage in life to be ready for that. He is trying to get his book published, he has just an internship yet. If he were to become a father this would very likely mean that Ian has to scrap his dream of being an author and has to crawl back to his daddy to work in a job which pays the bills for this family, but which he will hate for sure. This is honestly a recipe for disaster.
That's why in my eyes Alison isn't good girlfriend material in general, and especially for Ian. It's kinda sad we can't ship her with Axel.
Click to expand...
To clarify, I wasn't saying I disagreed that there are certain instances where characters make plausible choices and reactions that reveal a different side to them. What I was saying is that Eva does both in ORS, which is also why I feel the writing can be disjointed. You're speaking of certain characters in situations where the former may apply and might be assuming I'm talking about the same ones. (I wasn't personally focusing so much on Allison or Cindy as I'm not as interested in those paths and haven't noticed many implausible inconsistencies in them). There are some instances where it's believable that the characters' baseline personalities would react in such a way and other moments where the reaction or attitude is so mismatched, the character seems to have some sort of split personality, which I'm sure Eva didn't intend. It all depends on what paths you've played and what content you've seen. Some mismatches stick out like a sore thumb.

This can arguably be blamed at least partially on the breadth of choices and the workload that breadth entails, however. As well as how closely you're following the writing on specific characters. Even among the MCs, especially Lena. You can play her as an extremely sweet, emotional and sometimes even almost prudish girl, yet in certain sex scenes she'll jump straight into bad hardcore porn dialogue, like a seasoned pro who's filmed several 100-man gangbangs, all due to a single player choice in that scene. Sure, you can say "maybe there's just a lot going on off-screen we didn't see", but that abrupt change needs to be justified in the writing appropriately, including in her internalized thoughts, and it wasn't. Yet in some situations (the Lena/Ian/Holly dynamic, for one), the player is railroaded into a very solid reaction from Lena every time, displaying a Lena that's much more well-defined. I'm not so much buying the plausibility of some Holly changes, either. Some changes seem more to serve player preference for a path over natural progression of a character.

Most obvious example of such an "alternate universe" though is Jessica, whose personality entirely depends on what choices Lena made in the game. Sure, you can also say that it was a best-guess continuation of the Jessica the player may have created in GGGB, based on their play-style in ORS. But it's still a character in this game who is a completely different person based on the choices of an MC she's never met up until that point. This one doesn't bother me so much as it doesn't feel disjointed. You first encounter her as the character she already is. But it is a solid example of an alternate-reality sort of character.


So basically, I'm saying it's both. And you can find examples of both in the game. It's the writer's job to appropriately justify our suspension of disbelief and there are certain path/choice combinations in-game where that wasn't well achieved in regards to the characters' disjointed actions/reactions.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ename144, CoalPhelps and selberdreher
selberdreher

selberdreher

Member
Dec 29, 2017
448
944
dontcarewhateverno said:
(...)
Some mismatches stick out like a sore thumb.

This can arguably be blamed at least partially on the breadth of choices and the workload that breadth entails, however. As well as how closely you're following the writing on specific characters. Even among the MCs, especially Lena. (...) I'm not so much buying the plausibility of some Holly changes, either. Some changes seem more to serve player preference for a path over natural progression of a character.

Most obvious example of such an "alternate universe" though is Jessica, whose personality entirely depends on what choices Lena made in the game. (...)

So basically, I'm saying it's both. (...)
Click to expand...
These are same good examples, i believe. Interesting and thanks for your clarification!

I am also leaning towards the idea there is is some reality splitting in the game, but i am struggling to define where exactly those alternate universes are formed. Probably at some of the major path decisions, like for instance if Lena was seduced by Axel again or not.
Anyway, it's cool you didn't dismiss this rather 'wacky' theory from the get go. Appreciated! (y):geek:
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoalPhelps and dontcarewhateverno
Samuel Hidayat

Samuel Hidayat

Engaged Member
May 16, 2019
2,021
2,608
All I want for Chapter 10 is to show how Lena & her friends handle Seymour's blackmail. He's the major factor on why I don't pair up Ian and Lena together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a-pollo
T

Turret

Forum Fanatic
Jun 23, 2017
4,579
7,866
selberdreher said:
There is also another issue which is a bit meta and difficult to voice even in my own language. I hope i can convey this in a comprehensible way.

Do you guys believe, that every choice which actually alters the story splits off a seperate thread of reality like in Steins:Gate?
This would imply that an Alison on Ians path would be a different person entity than an Alison who never got involved with Ian, and if this was the case there could be indeed a character with a great personality in one thread of reality and a despicable one in another and we can't argue about those traits because we would compare two different characters.
I have to admit i am kind of fond of this idea, but it would probably kill any debate.

If on the other hand there is only one in-game reality which can evolve in different ways, i think it's admissible to conclude on a characters personality by looking at their what-if choices.
There was one which particularly stood out to me and that was Wades reaction on Cindys post of her first photoshoot. In my canon playthrough myIan urged Cindy to do nudes and she posted the backside topless picture in which she slips off her undies. To which Wade reacted -understandably- upset.
BUT he also went ballistic on another, very tame one, in which she didn't do nudes and posted a reasonable and beautiful, fully clothed picture of her looking over her shoulder. A picture which could have evoked a proud, yet surprised reaction from her boyfriend, like "Wow, look how beautiful my girlfriend is. Wait, who took that picture? Eh, nevermind, perhaps i ask her later."
To which i thought something along the lines of 'My boy Wade, perhaps you are an asshole and don't deserve better than get your girl stolen from you.'

I am wondering about at which point of the progression of a characters arc we can't conclude on or compare a characters personality anymore. Is a fair assessment of Alison, for instance, feasible if we take these two different weekend trips? The one in which she has a threesome with Jeremy and Billy versus the one she spends with Ian? I kind of think yes and no.
The seed for this branching was always existent in Alison at the start of the game, and her personality nurtured it into growing these two different branches. However the threesome Alison is as far away from the Ian Alison that they could very well be in another Steins:Gate reality. They are backwards comparable, but not directly with each other.

Does this make any sense? What is your take on this?
Click to expand...
Hi,selberdreher ! Interesting theory by you! I think you are both right and wrong here, depending on the character.
Take Lena: We can get a really nice, pleasant Lena, even on the slutty, Stan and Seymour-affine paths, but we can also get a narcistic, self-righteous, clearly unpleasant Lena on the "normal" paths, depending on choices made. This is near parallel universes, due to the extremly broad range of outcomes, considering Lena´starting personality.

In Alison´s case, this is nearly the same, but what many players (you included it seems) miss, is that you can shut down the "Jeremy-Alison" path completely, no matter if you pursue Alison or not, early in the game, maybe that´s because the choice which does this does not seem to affect much on fisrt look!

But generally the Alison we meet at game start is a friend who liked Ian already back in school, which was reciprociated by Ian, but both were too shy/oblivious to act on it. Alison´s current situation is one of frustration. She is really mobbed at work, similar to Ian, due to her straightforwardness (can be learned esp. if you have lunch with her) and had an overly jealous boyfriend, despite she was always loyal.
It is actually quite understandable that she wants to let off steam, have some fun and get her job and relationship status back in order.
And here is where our take on of Ian comes in. We can develop this starting situation in various ways. We can e.g. stay just good friends (we do not pursue Alison at all), we can become friends with benefits (pursuing Alison mainly for sex), we can become a "Voyeur-Ian" with the option to become a "Cuck Ian" (helping Jeremy pursue Alison, then pursuing her too), we can be an Ian who likes his girlfriends rather "wild" (letting Jeremy start with Alison, then pursuing her fully to get into a love relationship, but with the option to experiment) or we can be an Ian who finally recognises his old feelings for Alison (pursuing her right from the start, blocking Jeremy early on).
Alison likes Ian very much and prefers to be with him (and sgnals him up to a certain point, e.g. changing clothes style), but if Ian does not react, she is now at a point in her life where she does not want to wait all that much longer and acts on her own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: selberdreher
SpyderArachnid

SpyderArachnid

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
1,766
5,216
Carezam said:
Wouldn't it be better to add that "Abandoned" tag already? I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but it has been such a long time.
Click to expand...
A game only gets the abandoned tag if has been over six months and there is no news from the developer within that six month period (here or on their patreon/itch, etc). EvaKiss has been giving updates on progress and the patreons have decided to wait for her to finish Lena's part before release. So, not abandoned.

Originally, she was just going to release the update with Ian's part done only, but patreons voted to wait till Lena's part was done so they could get a full release, instead of a partial one. Thus the long delay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: selberdreher, sava75, pavlogrk and 4 others
R

Raxac

Member
Jul 26, 2017
130
262
SpyderArachnid said:
A game only gets the abandoned tag if has been over six months and there is no news from the developer within that six month period (here or on their patreon/itch, etc). EvaKiss has been giving updates on progress and the patreons have decided to wait for her to finish Lena's part before release. So, not abandoned.

Originally, she was just going to release the update with Ian's part done only, but patreons voted to wait till Lena's part was done so they could get a full release, instead of a partial one. Thus the long delay.
Click to expand...
3 months not 6 for the dev activity and 18months for a game update to get the tag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CassieBare, BorgiaBou, Oliver Wendell Homely and 1 other person
SpyderArachnid

SpyderArachnid

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
1,766
5,216
Raxac said:
3 months not 6 for the dev activity and 18months for a game update to get the tag.
Click to expand...
Always thought it was six months all around, as that is what a mod told me. Then again, that was years ago, so could be different now. Haven't really kept up with that stuff lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
4.60 star(s) 366 Votes