VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[Sheet420]

As much as I complain about the insane wait, splitting the update is a terrible idea and the right call was made.

 

[89898hh]

If the dev is struggling from burnout or just struggling to continue the story it may be a sign to maybe move onto a different fresh project. I like this game but the amount of time its taking screams burnout or struggling to come up with new content.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Having done some writing before in my life, I'm not sure people understand the amount of narrative threads Eva has to deal with per update. Now, you can, I suppose, make the observation that creating a game with so many narrative paths is unwise...I disagree myself, but it's a fair observation...what you shouldn't do is expect any update of ORS to come in at under 6 months. I would call that wildly unrealistic expectations.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

i disagree, i can write a whole game with the same quality in 1 month if i worked everyday for a few hours.

Even Stephen King would laugh at that notion.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Even Stephen King would laugh at that notion.

There are a lot of people out there who are proud of being ignorant and spouting nonsense.


Sharpx23 since it is so easy why don't you prove it? Make a story with the same amount of words that EvaKiss already put into Our Red String in one month. I will even give you a discount and not ask you to do the art and you can also start the count from tomorrow. Can you do it until october 25?

 

[Amahl Farouk]

I now officially hate multi-protagonist games

If the focus of attention of the story was the girl, then we could get down to the serious task of crafting her in the image we want

Or even, god forbid, if the focus was on the boy, getting him out of his learner plate bed and manning him up

But this "1 update every 400 hundred years cause things are complex" is a self inflicted punch to the snozzle

And we all saw it coming

 

[yawyeetah]

I now officially hate multi-protagonist games

If the focus of attention of the story was the girl, then we could get down to the serious task of crafting her in the image we want

Or even, god forbid, if the focus was on the boy, getting him out of his learner plate bed and manning him up

But this "1 update every 400 hundred years cause things are complex" is a self inflicted punch to the snozzle

And we all saw it coming

I suppose Eva Kiss wanted to appeal to more people/do something new by doing a multiple protag game

 

[Chemish]

While I've very much enjoyed what I've played of ORS, I do believe returning to one protagonist like GGGB would be beneficial in future games.

 

[cheesetriangles]

I now officially hate multi-protagonist games

If the focus of attention of the story was the girl, then we could get down to the serious task of crafting her in the image we want

Or even, god forbid, if the focus was on the boy, getting him out of his learner plate bed and manning him up

But this "1 update every 400 hundred years cause things are complex" is a self inflicted punch to the snozzle

And we all saw it coming

Yeah, I do not care about Ian at all personally. There are endless games where you can play whatever male power fantasy bang all the girls. A good Fem PC game is so much rarer. Just goes with the territory of the games mostly being written by men for men.

 

[camube]

Yeah, I do not care about Ian at all personally. There are endless games where you can play whatever male power fantasy bang all the girls. A good Fem PC game is so much rarer. Just goes with the territory of the games mostly being written by men for men.

i've played Noemi Toscana Rebirth and College Craze and Lust Campus that has female MC. Do you have any other recommendations of Female MC renpy games i haven't try? that's at least half as good as ORS?

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

i've played Noemi Toscana Rebirth and College Craze and Lust Campus that has female MC. Do you have any other recommendations of Female MC renpy games i haven't try? that's at least half as good as ORS?

I can think of three VN right now with my sleepy brain.


*Project Myriam - Life Explorations. Has a great amount of branching choices and hot 3D renders. I was surprised with how different you can play the game.

*Rise of the White Flower. It has amazing artwork with really hot sex scenes and a very detailed fantasy setting story. It is made on Unity instead of Ren'py but it is a visual novel.

*Bad Memories. You can play with a female character, which i believe fits the story better, Jill (default name) who goes around seducing all the women. There is a long interval between updates by the way.

 

[Pede rasta 1]

i disagree, i can write a whole game with the same quality in 1 month if i worked everyday for a few hours. you start with an outline for all the branches, then work in the events you want to happen, then the dialogue. but i like how people think the writing is so epic and no one can do what so and so dev does with the writing in a game. tbh, i think there are people out there who can do better. Eva is probably not motivated, as I can see motivation being the only roadblock here.

the other thing i see devs struggle with is re-hashing and editing the same 3 lines 1000 times. if you do that you should never be in any sort of creative field or in game development. go watch bob ross paint, he doesn't fuck around with the same cloud for 10 hours. he tells you about happy little mistakes, teaches you to edit and move on.

They don't pay and they are worse than slave foremen lol
Work every day bastard, whiplash! Quick! I want my porn now!!!!
write it yourself and stop demanding

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Looking back at the way the development time evolved in the past year and a half, we can see an ascending trend.

Chapter	Period
7	3 months
8	3 months
9	5 months
Remastered	5 months
10	5.5 months + (on going)

The period is not 100% accurate, but is not too far off. Probably the development time will never get back to that 3 months sweet spot. After chapter 10, if Eva manages to find more help and she reduces the scope of a chapter to something that is easier to handle, we might see an average development period of 6 months.

But hey, this is just speculation. There is a good chance that the estimations (from this comment and the previous one) prove to be completely wrong. Just look at what I said last year when someone asked: "When will we see the next update?"

The truth is - and she's probably embarrassed to admit this, so chalks it up to writer's block & other design issues - that Eva's just struggling with the length of Jeremy's dick. It has expanded a bit each chapter, hence the longer wait times.

"Is it too long now?" *erases, to shorten the length a bit* "Nah. Needs another centimeter or two" *adds just a bit more length* "How thick was it last scene? It needs to be a little bit thicker" *Bites tongue and erases a vein to expand the girth. Adds vein back in* "There! That's just about perf- .. wait. It needs another vein. Sigh."

Every half-inch adds a month to development time and it plans to be a 13 incher by the time chapter 20 rolls around, so you do the math.

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

i've played Noemi Toscana Rebirth and College Craze and Lust Campus that has female MC. Do you have any other recommendations of Female MC renpy games i haven't try? that's at least half as good as ORS?

Try "Good Girl Gone Bad," another game from EvaKiss, and I really like "A Wife and Mother." "Free Pass" is also OK.

 

[oldschool34500]

They chose to wait for a full release no one forced them and she didn't lie to them like other devs do !!!! Congratulations on being smart and not paying !!!!!

whether they are forced or not, people continue to pay for a product they don't have! when you go to the baker you give him the money for a baguette, you don't wait for him to do it for next week... that's what I was getting at, so don't talk about intelligence... anyway, everyone lives on credit, it's the global fashion.

 

[Vernalcash]

i disagree, i can write a whole game with the same quality in 1 month if i worked everyday for a few hours. you start with an outline for all the branches, then work in the events you want to happen, then the dialogue. but i like how people think the writing is so epic and no one can do what so and so dev does with the writing in a game. tbh, i think there are people out there who can do better. Eva is probably not motivated, as I can see motivation being the only roadblock here.

the other thing i see devs struggle with is re-hashing and editing the same 3 lines 1000 times. if you do that you should never be in any sort of creative field or in game development. go watch bob ross paint, he doesn't fuck around with the same cloud for 10 hours. he tells you about happy little mistakes, teaches you to edit and move on.

I expect to read your script in here on the 25th of october.

 

[GifMeMore1987]

i've played Noemi Toscana Rebirth and College Craze and Lust Campus that has female MC. Do you have any other recommendations of Female MC renpy games i haven't try? that's at least half as good as ORS?

Dog Days Of Summer is fun to play, Mother Lovers Society from the same developer is also good but very linear. Both games have mum-daughter incest (unavoidable in MLS). Descent is interesting (and completed), but can be quite a downer. The Chloe 18 games are popular, I played one and gave up since it was an extreme grind fest.

 

[anatarash]

I recently saw a poll on if and what specific kinks should be incorporated into another game, and foot play was second lowest on that list, only enema scored lower, even watersports, for instance scored considerably higher.
While that poll may be not representative, i think it gives a hunch about foot play isn't that popular and may be already overrepresentated. I personally feel like you get footsies in every other game (which ofc isn't true).

My view on this issue would be, that Devs add foot play to their games, because it is a rather inoffensive kink (again compared to i.e. watersports), which normally doesn't turn away players from a game. But nonetheless it may cater to a rather small community, and since every realized scene competed and won over a different sex scene which could have been done instead, i'd personally see rather fewer of them than more.

very interesting insight, thx. i must state that im not exclusively into foot play, i was just surprised to see (especially in GGGB wich is far more inspired and visually pleasent and unique in therms of drawing IMHO) such well depicted and detailed feet and never get them involved not even for a second in the sex action, while you can see other controversial fetish instead, like rimjobs, spitting etc. well anyway..as i said the art drawing in GGGB was on another level. this one looks like those flash games from early 2000. i didnt like it honestly

 

[selberdreher]

I actually never demanded anything. I am perfectly fine waiting like 4 months for a game update. When updates take 6m to 1 year I don't complain because I get shit for free and I'm not a patreon supporter — i just play another game.

My post was me just literally disagreeing that the devs are god send writers who need tons of time to write good dialogue or stories... AND maybe my confidence is because I am good at writing? In university I was basically a straight A+ student in all writing courses which required pages and pages of essays AND I am also creative. Some people won't have this amount of practice in writing and so it seems impressive what Eva does... and people just have different talents, like science or math etc.

I think the three big roadblocks to developing a game IF you are a good writer already are:
1) no motivation
2) bottleneck with the artists speed
3) being so much of a perfectionist that you rewrite the same scene 100 times.

If you're not a good writer then the writing WILL be the roadblock. To put it bluntly the outline for this game and all its branches should have been completed months ago (given that the game has been in dev for 2 years?). In the creative process you might add or delete some things, but *IF* (emphasis on the if) Eva is still planning a WHOLE outline as opposed to editing one then she's doing it wrong.

Now, this already sounds a bit different and more nuanced. So i'd like to point out a few aspects which are likely worth noting.

First of all, ORS is not a novel, it's a game, a Visual Novel with RPG elements and even mini-games.
So this puts already two different layers on the baseline writing. Coding and Artwork.

You admitted, that you see yourself as a competent and fast writer, and your grades show that you were above average in that.
I think it's not unlikely you could compose a text-based html game, perhaps with the help of a friendly coder (first hurdle), within your anticipated time frame.

IIRC EvaKiss is by profession a graphic designer, which already would put her at a disadvantage to anyone who studied creative writing and therefore got aquainted with methods of and tools in writing. (Dunno tbh if you took creative writing, but doesn't matter.)
As far as i know, EvaKiss does also the coding, which shouldn't be underestimated, since opposed to a professional coder/programmer it's very likely, she/he/they don't always choose the best, easiest and most effective way to implement the code. I've seen enough threads here in which experts on programming - or in a more general term: people affine to programming -, rip apart the code of self-taught Devs, because they say it's unreadable, redundant and bloated. I don't know how much of this applies to EvaKisses code, but it could be a factor as the game is becoming bigger.

I have seen suggestions about EvaKiss should become more of a project manager than a game developer, but again, this is probably not something they(she) want(s) to do, since they arouse from a creative field, and there isn't a guarantee that they would be good at it. Companies don't pay their project managers premium wages for nothing.

So basically EvaKiss has to cover three bases, and they(she) will always at a disadvantage to someone who has to cover just one.
Much like a triathlet will loose to a dedicated marathon runner, bike racer and competitive swimmer in their specialty.

Perhaps you need to take these points into account, when you are talking about ORS. And comparing the strength of oneself to someone else who works in a different field is a bit.... unfair?

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Oh, you can critize all you want, but you need to acknowledge that no one will take your critic as substantial, if you are backing a baseless claim, stating they are "facts".

You admit yourself in your latest post, that even with GGGB, which is your shining example, the Dev took a month to merely update the game, not to write the whole thing in a month. GGGB was developed from roughly Apr 2017 to Dec 2019, and there was obviously put already work into it before that, because Apr 2017 was when the first version went online.

This means GGGB took around 3 years to complete. Not a month. Facts.

And leaving aside, that those two games are hardly comparable in any aspect other than being created by the same Dev.
So this is comparing Apples and Oranges.

You are confused. The original comment never said the game you could write in a month would be the same length as either ORS or GGGB. The simply stated "a game" could be writen in that time and they are right.

You can apply the same logic for an update. The issue is and had always been that the dev is simply creatively struggling with what they want to write and it is clear in a number of "weekly" updates.

The Remaster alone shows there is an issue creatively.