VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[BloodyMares]

How do you get this reaction? When I played through the Lena/Ian route and kept their approval low, but kept them dating to see what would happen, first kiss and sex came automatically eventually.

I'm not talking about Ian x Lena. I'm talking about the different reactions of Lena x Robert path.

Not everyone is going to play the game more than once. Not everyone's interested in playing a bisexual playthrough. For some people the choice of "kissing Robert" and "rejecting Robert" is going to be the only choice regarding him they'll receive, at least in the current version.

All the options you're missing are already there. It's just relationship/approval dependent (like you're requesting for Ian x Lena). Take a closer look:

Chapter 2 date outcomes:
1) If you have medium relationship with Robert (5), Lena can kiss Robert in the bar.
2) If you have higher relationship with him (6 or more), then he kisses Lena on auto. In this scenario, Lena can reprimand Robert for the kiss, and then ends the date, saying it was a mistake. Then, in 2 days, Robert apologizes and tries to ask for another date (Chapter 3), and Lena can give him a second chance or reject him for good.
3) If you have low relationship (4 or less), Lena can only reject him for good.

If Lena doesn't push Robert away or kisses him by herself, then he'll ask Lena to invite him home. It takes 1 Will point to agree, so Lena can refuse in a polite way ("Next time"), and in aggressive way ("No way!"). The second leads to the same outcome as the previous branch (Robert apologizes and asks for a second chance), the first leads to him eagerly awaiting their next date.

In Chapter 3, based on the outcome of their previous date, Robert either starts making out with Lena and asks to have sex (Lena brought him home route), and she can agree for a quickie before work, or she can post-pone it for later (sex with him is unavoidable in this branch). If Lena didn't bring him home, then she promises to have sex with him later or tell him he's going too fast. If she tells him he's going too fast, then he shows his true colors, and complains that Lena is "one of those". It pisses her off, and she realizes what a mistake it was trying to go out with Robert. It ends his route, and you can't really blame Lena for not trying enough or the game for not giving you the option to go slow with him. It's just, his character is incompatible with going slower because he's a jerk.

So, you didn't have enough relationship (6) with Robert, and yet you want an option to continue seeing him without the kiss...

 

[Cabot]

that Holly is practically not present if you haven't pursued her with Ian or haven't encouraged poledancing could have been helped if there had been a choice between going to the club with Ivy or inviting Holly over for a hangout. Or just make inviting Holly along a choice, instead of making it dependent on pole dancing.

Spoiler

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But then again, I understand your issues with all of it

 

[BlandChili]

I'm not talking about Ian x Lena. I'm talking about the different reactions of Lena x Robert path.

Ah, I misunderstood then.

All the options you're missing are already there. It's just relationship/approval dependent (like you're requesting for Ian x Lena). Take a closer look:

Chapter 2 date outcomes:
1) If you have medium relationship with Robert (5), Lena can kiss Robert in the bar.
2) If you have higher relationship with him (6 or more), then he kisses Lena on auto. In this scenario, Lena can reprimand Robert for the kiss, and then ends the date, saying it was a mistake. Then, in 2 days, Robert apologizes and tries to ask for another date (Chapter 3), and Lena can give him a second chance or reject him for good.
3) If you have low relationship (4 or less), Lena can only reject him for good.

Spoiler: Minimized

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So, you didn't have enough relationship (6) with Robert, and yet you want an option to continue seeing him without the kiss...

It doesn't have all the options that would be my ideal. Regardless of what you do and your relationship with him, at the choice at the bar you have to choose to either
a) Accept his kiss
b) Kiss him of your own volition
c) Reject him outright.

There is an option missing along the lines of "hey, you seem nice pal, I ain't into kissing on on first meetings though, but I'd still like to give you a chance," which Robert could then either agree to or insist on physical intimacy right away.

Lots of people formally date before they kiss.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

For example, it would have been great if instead of rejecting Louise outright, that you could ask her for a chance to think the relationship over, skipping the first scene but not closing off the path completely.
Especially because of the circumstances around her relationship with Jeremy and her emotional state at the time.
Instead you have to kiss her and have sex right then, otherwise tough luck? Why?

Yeah I would've much preferred to comfort and cuddle her at that point. Maybe the sex scene can still happen as they're cuddling and you have a choice to give her a kiss (or accept her kiss), not in a romantic or sexual way but more for comfort, which then could quickly escalate, or you just leave it at that and either way this starts the relationship.

 

[BloodyMares]

For example, one of my direct complaints about chapter 7, that Holly is practically not present if you haven't pursued her with Ian or haven't encouraged poledancing could have been helped if there had been a choice between going to the club with Ivy or inviting Holly over for a hangout. Or just make inviting Holly along a choice, instead of making it dependent on pole dancing.

Don't you think that you're basically asking for less consequences for the sake of having more options? Wouldn't that make the experience more linear, and make the previous choice have less weight? If Ian ignores Holly and has poor relationship with her, she becomes a "secondary NPC" in his life, a meer work colleague that he only interacts with at work. If Lena doesn't encourage Holly to go to the gym, then she knows there's no way that she'd agree going to the club because it's out of her comfort zone, and to add to that, Holly and Ivy aren't friends in this route (they only met once). Neither is Louise is Ivy's friend, but she goes there for Lena and Jeremy. If she isn't dating Jeremy, she doesn't go, even for Lena. In these circuimstances, Lena bringing Holly to party with Ivy would be like Ian bringing Holly to Wade's birthday party on Friday. Nobody else knows Holly except Ian, so it would be a pretty overwhelming and miserable evening for her in both Lena's and Ian's route.

 

[BloodyMares]

Ah, I misunderstood then.

It doesn't have all the options that would be my ideal. Regardless of what you do and your relationship with him, at the choice at the bar you have to choose to either
a) Accept his kiss
b) Kiss him of your own volition
c) Reject him outright.

There is an option missing along the lines of "hey, you seem nice pal, I ain't into kissing on on first meetings though, but I'd still like to give you a chance," which Robert could then either agree to or insist on physical intimacy right away.

Lots of people formally date before they kiss.

You misunderstood again. Pay attention to what I say please. If you have high relationship (6 or more), ROBERT KISSES YOU WITHOUT ANY CHOICE. It's a completely different outcome, and Lena can react in 2 ways:
1) Accept the kiss
2) Do exactly what you described. Tell him that the kiss was too much and end the night with him on an awkward note. In 2 days, he apologizes and asks for a second chance that Lena can accept and enable the date with him in Chapter 3. How is it different from what you're asking? You just need enough interest from Lena (high approval) to unlock this route. Otherwise, Lena isn't motivated to continue seeing Robert at all because she didn't like how the first date with him ended.

 

[BlandChili]

You are picking at specifics of mere examples I'm giving to reinforce a different point to the one you think I'm making.

Don't you think that you're basically asking for less consequences for the sake of having more options? Wouldn't that make the experience more linear, and make the previous choice have less weight?

Not really, why should "does Holly do pole dancing?" be the deciding choice that means wether or not you get content with her in chapter 7? Holly tells Ian that her and Lena hung out at ate cookies, so clearly the choice doesn't impact how much Lena and Holly hangs out otherwise.

If Ian ignores Holly and has poor relationship with her, she becomes a "secondary NPC" in his life, a meer work colleague that he only interacts with at work.

Which is completely fair and understandable.

If Lena doesn't encourage Holly to go to the gym, then she knows there's no way that she'd agree going to the club because it's out of her comfort zone, and to add to that, Holly and Ivy aren't friends in this route (they only met once).

Also a fair point, therefore I think there should have been a substitute scene, even a small one, just to reinforce that Holly and Lena see each other still. All we get is a dialogue reference from Holly in the office with Ian.
It's something, it just feels empty when Lena's relationship to Holly becomes a mere reference through Ian's perspective.

Neither is Louise is Ivy's friend, but she goes there for Lena and Jeremy. If she isn't dating Jeremy, she doesn't go, even for Lena. In these circuimstances, Lena bringing Holly to party with Ivy would be like Ian bringing Holly to Wade's birthday party on Friday. Nobody else knows Holly except Ian, so it would be a pretty overwhelming and miserable evening for her in both Lena's and Ian's route.

Yeah, I agree, you aren't wrong in you analysis of the circumstances and the characters.

My point isn't "I wanted Holly to come to the club at all costs" my point is that "man, ch. 7 was sort of sparse on Holly content because of a choice about taking chances, I wish there had been something to make up the difference."
I'm just spitting out various examples of what those could have been, I know not all of them makes sense with all the details in question.

 

[BlandChili]

You misunderstood again. Pay attention to what I say please. If you have high relationship (6 or more), ROBERT KISSES YOU WITHOUT ANY CHOICE. It's a completely different outcome, and Lena can react in 2 ways:
1) Accept the kiss
2) Do exactly what you described. Tell him that the kiss was too much and end the night with him on an awkward note. In 2 days, he apologizes and asks for a second chance that Lena can accept and enable the date with him in Chapter 3. How is it different from what you're asking? You just need enough interest from Lena (high approval) to unlock this route. Otherwise, Lena isn't motivated to continue seeing Robert at all because she didn't like how the first date with him ended.

No, I understood you. I'm just asking for a "Not looking for love tonight, try another day?" option in the middle of "kiss him" or "reject him," in the section I got.
Why're the options for me "physical intimacy" or "nothing at all"? If I'm in the middle of the "Lena and Robert kinda like each other" spectrum surely an option to not kiss him right away isn't unreasonable.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

Not really, why should "does Holly do pole dancing?" be the deciding choice that means wether or not you get content with her in chapter 7? Holly tells Ian that her and Lena hung out at ate cookies, so clearly the choice doesn't impact how much Lena and Holly hangs out otherwise.

I would've liked to see that scene! (And eat Holly's cookie )

 

[BlandChili]

(And eat Holly's cookie )

L-lewd~
Next you're going to demand something really explicit.
Like holding hands.

 

[BloodyMares]

No, I understood you. I'm just asking for a "Not looking for love tonight, try another day?" option in the middle of "kiss him" or "reject him," in the section I got.
Why're the options for me "physical intimacy" or "nothing at all"? If I'm in the middle of the "Lena kinda likes sim" spectrum surely an option to not kiss him right away isn't unreasonable.

Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.

 

[BlandChili]

Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.

What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.

Robert has a lot of choice and variability in that scene already, it's not wrong or broken, it just doesn't have the choice that I'd have ideally liked to be there.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

L-lewd~
Next you're going to demand something really explicit.
Like holding hands.

Oh my goodness...

 

[Leonardovisk]

Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.

Funny because I had an opposite ideia about Lena. Not a virgin but...wild?

There is some line in some dialogue that support that?

 

[Skylark21]

Funny because I had an opposite ideia about Lena. Not a virgin but...wild?

There is some line in some dialogue that support that?

Um, Lena×Axel photos? I mean they count, right? Also taking off clothes in public without any problem kind of points towards exhibination.

 

[Leonardovisk]

Um, Lena×Axel photos? I mean they count, right?

Yeah but i understand that all she did with Axel was because she loves him.

Maybe im a romantic guys and got things wrong lol

 

[Idontknowme]

What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.

Robert has a lot of choice and variability in that scene already, it's not wrong or broken, it just doesn't have the choice that I'd have ideally liked to be there.

I feel like what BloodyMares is trying to say is that Lena is not the wait three dates to have sex kind of girl. She is not like Ashley who you can mould to fit your ideals. She has a past and tastes independent of what you as a player choose to impose on her. Lena is someone entirely comfortabele with the idea of nudity and casual sex. No amount of making choices is going to change that. That is who she is.

 

[BloodyMares]

What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.

Eva would need a bigger budget to implement every single choice that you and I would have liked. Let's keep in mind that Chapter 2 was made in a month.

Apparently, when Lena rejected Robert's kiss, even if she didn't mind the date, she didn't like Robert's reaction that followed and wasn't comfortable with him to continue seeing him. And, mind you, in your situation, your Lena defined her opinion of Robert previously by saying "You're okay" (she doesn't even like him as a friend).
When Robert asks Lena about her opinion of him, she can say "I like you" (you didn't have that option it seems, otherwise you would've picked it for the desired outcome), "You're okay" and "I barely know you". If you choose the "I like you", then Robert feels confident enough to kiss her right away. If you choose "I barely know you", Lena can only reject him after that. If you say, "You're okay", then Lena can choose to agree with Ivy's earlier suggestion and go for the kiss herself just to forget about Axel, or she decides to reject the kiss because she doesn't feel comfortable with Robert. Again, you should've had higher approval to say "I like you". Isn't that what you're asking for with Ian's path? For relationship score to matter? In one instance, you want it, in another, you don't.

 

[BlandChili]

I feel like what BloodyMares is trying to say is that Lena is not the wait three dates to have sex kind of girl. She is not like Ashley who you can mould to fit your ideals. She has a past and tastes independent of what you as a player choose to impose on her. Lena is someone entirely comfortabele with the idea of nudity and casual sex. No amount of making choices is going to change that. That is who she is.

So? The choice I wished for does not conflict with that. Being comfortable about casual sex is not the same as wanting to bang any option that comes along or not engage with them at all.

 

[BlandChili]

Eva would need a bigger budget to implement every single choice that you and I would have liked. Let's keep in mind that Chapter 2 was made in a month.

Which is completely fine.
I'm not saying Eva should endeavour to cover all bases, just that there are some options that would have been nice, hypothetically speaking. I just refuse all these rationalisations being given for it, there is no argument that counters my wish completely, I have no illusions about the constraints around making a game of this nature.

I'm not demanding that the specific scenario I have in mind should be implemented, just that it's an element among others that can consolidate into a playthrough that feels like it contains less content. It's a natural result of games like this, I just comment here because I pity myself.

Apparently, when Lena rejected Robert's kiss, even if she didn't mind the date, she didn't like Robert's reaction that followed and wasn't comfortable with him to continue seeing him. And, mind you, in your situation, your Lena defined her opinion of Robert previously by saying "You're okay" (she doesn't even like him as a friend).
When Robert asks Lena about her opinion of him, she can say "I like you" (you didn't have that option it seems, otherwise you would've picked it for the desired outcome), "You're okay" and "I barely know you". If you choose the "I like you", then Robert feels confident enough to kiss her right away. If you choose "I barely know you", Lena can only reject him after that. If you say, "You're okay", then Lena can choose to agree with Ivy's earlier suggestion and go for the kiss herself just to forget about Axel, or she decides to reject the kiss because she doesn't feel comfortable with Robert. Again, you should've had higher approval to say "I like you". Isn't that what you're asking for with Ian's path? For relationship score to matter? In one instance, you want it, in another, you don't.

And all the following events are completely fine as well, there is nothing wrong with it and I understand the rationale behind all of it.

I just wanted another option.