VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[doctor13]

Signatures updated

Cool, could you do Holly and Minerva ones?

 

[Cabot]

I understand your complaint and I would agree...

I wasn’t complaining, just pointed out that what may be perceived as an “upgrade” for some people for others… not so much. Everybody have their own tastes and it’s quite difficult to objectivize them and state that one is “superior” to another.

While I understand what she is saying the truth is I for one don’t have any real major problem with many of the scenes that Olivia_V posted (for example the last one reminds me a lot a scene in Requiem for a Dream with Jennifer Connely, in fact I’d bet is clearly inspired by it, and find it quite hot) or with the characters occasionally looking at the camera and so at the player (and in POV scenes like Robert’s bj I’d said is more than justified).

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Don’t get me wrong I also don’t have any major problem with Eva from time to time using different material –more naturalistic or not- as reference, but I wouldn’t like that to be the ONLY material she “upgrades” to. I guess I’m the odd case that like my porn to be “porny”.

Because let’s not forget this is a porn –or at least erotic- game, the day it becomes a nouvelle vague movie with some mundane sex thrown in as a side dish I’d be, if not out, probably much less interested.

 

[Lady Aspen]

Could you do one with Seymour?

Cool, could you do Holly and Minerva ones?

Yeah, i will do it in the next update.

 

[Olivia_V]

Not trying to be an ass, but it looks like "upgrades her taste" means here "make it closer to my own". In this case lesbian naturalistic porn, it seems.

Or maybe it means creating more consistency between the visuals and the writing tone. The story is, in essence, a slice of life story. If you're going to latch us onto the PoV's of two ordinary people, don't break immersion by making their sex scenes fake and porn-y.

I only comment on the lesbian scenes because those are the only ones that I go for. If it means improving the het scenes by making them less porny and more consistent with the visual tone, themes and characters of the story, then all the better.

(for example the last one reminds me a lot a scene in Requiem for a Dream with Jennifer Connely, in fact I’d bet is clearly inspired by it, and find it quite hot)

Requiem for a Dream is an Aronofsky film. That involves drug addicted characters. Now, if the storyline involved a drug addled Ashley living inside her head, sure, it's easier to suspend disbelief and see very staged sex scenes as a representation of a corroding madness.

Not in what is supposed to be a sweet capstone to a slice of life romance.

but I wouldn’t like that to be the ONLY material she “upgrades” to. I guess I’m the odd case that like my porn to be “porny”.

Who is saying "only"? If there is a story route that justifies such fake sex scenes, then why not? I wasn't objecting, for example, to porn star Ashley having sex like a porn actress. The chief reason why I had hoped she would upgrade was because the scenes were fake and porn-y across all story contexts. If she could upgrade her visuals to match the variations of story she's put so much heart into, it upgrades the quality of the storytelling of the entire game.

Because let’s not forget this is a porn –or at least erotic- game

Judging from the effort and quality EvaKiss has put into the writing, I doubt she sees ORS or GGGB as run-of-the-mill "porn games". She is clearly looking for a more varied set of emotional responses to go along with the erotica.

 

[BloodyMares]

Because let’s not forget this is a porn –or at least erotic- game, the day it becomes a nouvelle vague movie with some mundane sex thrown in as a side dish I’d be, if not out, probably much less interested.

Not every porn needs to be gonzo-style or glamour style with teasing the camera or sensual vanilla porn though. You can have all kinds of different styles that are equally good. It's just, in well-written feature porn (that Eva Kiss tries to emulate with her games) there's usually more acting involved, unlike in "action-only" porn flicks with zero story development. Sex doesn't have to be mundane to show raw and lustful emotions, be it sensual love-making or hard and nasty fucking.
That photo with Lena blowing Robert is the perfect example of the "seamless" porn scene. It's from Robert's POV, so this camera shot is 100% justified. Likewise, in GGGB where Ashley is filmed, either by Jack or somebody else, it makes total sense for her to tease the camera, and there's usually 2 different perspectives - the first one is ours, where we watch Ashley herself blowing Jack, focusing her gaze on him, and the second is Jack's camera, and we can "look from his shoulder" the footage that he films, and in that footage, Ash looks at "us". Again, a seamless experience.
But when you have a third-person view, it's very strange to see a girl break character and look somewhere else rather than focusing on her partner or her pleasure. You don't have to choose between "porny" and "vanilla", you can have the best of both - porny fucking and intense emotions, which would make a very great experience. In fact, some mainstream indie films choose to feature X-rated performance with unsimulated sex to better capture the raw sexual emotion, but the action is always in-character and doesn't look staged for the viewer's sake only.

 

[Cabot]

Who is saying "only"? If there is a story route that justifies such fake sex scenes, then why not? I wasn't objecting, for example, to porn star Ashley having sex like a porn actress. The chief reason why I had hoped she would upgrade was because the scenes were fake and porn-y across all story contexts.

Well, this is the point where I believe we could agree to disagree: I don’t think every sex scene would improve just by making them what you call less porny, and the only exceptions to that being those strictly justified by the storyline like in porn Ash route.

Consider this pic from Louise’s scene:

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While she has her eyes closed and so is not looking directly into the camera she has her face turned in a weird angle, as ordinary people having real sex she probably wouldn’t have her neck in that position… and we the players wouldn’t be able to see her expression which, in my opinion, makes the scene much hotter than just watching the back of her head. So, again imo, that scene is improved by making it MORE porny, not the other way around. And I can live with it not being realistic, naturalistic or introducing some dissonance in the narrative.

In fact I’d would argue that “real sex” has become more porny over time, as porn has become ubiquitous in our society. Facials could be a good example of that, but there are plenty more. But that would be entirely another discussion.

Judging from the effort and quality EvaKiss has put into the writing, I doubt she sees ORS or GGGB as run-of-the-mill "porn games". She is clearly looking for a more varied set of emotional responses to go along with the erotica.

Sure. Completely agree with that. To go along with the erotica.

 

[Brickman]

No. Read what I actually wrote. My issue is not with the particular sex acts but with how they are presented. It looks fake and staged. You have two girls who are making love, why is at least one spiking the camera? There shouldn't even be a camera since they're not filming a porno, so who is that one girl staring at the reader looking at? Is there some other perv in the room? And why are they positioned and angled like they're trying to present to a camera, when their only concern should be pleasing their partner?

All these stem from having to trace the images from porn scenes and photos that look very porny, fake and staged.

Is there some other perv in the room?

Yes, that other perv in the room is you

 

[BloodyMares]

Consider this pic from Louise’s scene:
While she has her eyes closed and so is not looking directly into the camera she has her face turned in a weird angle, as ordinary people having real sex she probably wouldn’t have her neck in that position… and we the players wouldn’t be able to see her expression which, in my opinion, makes the scene much hotter than just watching the back of her head. So, again imo, that scene is improved by making it MORE porny, not the other way around. And I can live with it not being realistic, naturalistic or introducing some dissonance in the narrative.

I agree whole-heartedly about Louise's scene. It works because it's very hot but ALSO it's very erotic and sensual. Her facial expression enhances the scene. Which is what we're arguing for.
Also, I'll point out another detail. In that scene "we" are Lena. Lena is spying on her friend, and Eva needed to showcase 3 things at once - Louise's beauty and sensuality (if you focus on her), Jeremy's BBC (if you focus on his dick), and their intimacy being violated (which is why slightly exaggerated angles for Lena's benefit). The visuals are perfectly in sync with the narrative, providing a seamless erotic experience. And the position doesn't look uncomfortable.
You CAN have the "porny" angles to enhance the visuals for narrative reasons. And if you have natural facial expressions similar to that of Louise to go along with the porny sex, you enhance ("upgrade") the visual storytelling by adding humanity and character to it. It's all about style. The criticism was of that one very romantic and intimate moment between 2 lovers that conflicted with the visuals. You need to enhance visually the lovemaking that is happening in addition to sex in those types of scenes, and those angles and positions just didn't convey lovemaking but rather resembled a casual and awkward performance. Just like a love scene in a mainstream movie can be ruined by overacting and bad chemistry between the actors that you just stop believing what is being shown.

 

[Olivia_V]

While she has her eyes closed and so is not looking directly into the camera she has her face turned in a weird angle, as ordinary people having real sex she probably wouldn’t have her neck in that position… and we the players wouldn’t be able to see her expression which, in my opinion, makes the scene much hotter than just watching the back of her head.

And you know what? You can achieve the same trick with a slight angle change that wouldn't require her to crane her neck in an unusual way. Or, another way to do it is to use a more natural reaction, such as having Louise throw her head back in ecstasy. It's far more indicative of sexual ecstasy, and hotter. You don't even need to see the whole face, you just need to show enough to give an idea of her expression.

Hell, even if you are absolutely bent on seeing this particular facial angle, then just have Louise reach back to touch Jeremy's penis to justify the angle.

Of course, if it turns out that Louise knew all along that she was being watched and was playing up to it, that makes the more understandable. Perhaps there are other story details that can justify this. But if not, I'll maintain that this could have been done even better.

And I can live with it not being realistic, naturalistic or introducing some dissonance in the narrative.

Perfect if this was just another porn game. And if you're perfectly content with that, then cool. But if EvaKiss is aiming higher, then I'd rather she actually aim higher. Show that you can have both the erotica and the emotion in harmony. Storytelling is the future of erotica.

 

[Zongor]

A lot of people seem to have this opinion. I think he only has that feel if you pick the choices that lead to him being that way but in my playthrough, he feels like a normal charismatic guy and he even "beats" Jeremy to Alisson, that's not really a cuck thing to do is it.

Yeah, you're right..I did the same and banged Allison too. But, he still seems a bit weak, like couldn't get it up with her the first time for example. Mind you, I'm happy whichever way the story goes, as long as it's not too similar to GGGB.

 

[jalon33]

this week or the next

Based on her latest posts, it sounds like she's fallen behind schedule a bit, so this may not be necessarily true.

 

[BloodyMares]

But, he still seems a bit weak, like couldn't get it up with her the first time for example.

It's not weak. It's called being nervous. It's normal, it has nothing to do with strength of any kind. Even Jeremy confirms that he had that happen to him once or twice.

 

[Ser Maggot]

I swear people in this thread act like they're virgins. Ian is realistically portrayed. But I guess people play their porn games to feel like a sex god.

 

[TB-11]

While she has her eyes closed and so is not looking directly into the camera she has her face turned in a weird angle, as ordinary people having real sex she probably wouldn’t have her neck in that position… and we the players wouldn’t be able to see her expression which, in my opinion, makes the scene much hotter than just watching the back of her head.

Absolutely 100% agreement.

One of my hobbies is photography. Mainly sports, baseball, soccer, motor sports. and one of the main criteria for a good sports photo is: transport emotions and that won't work (mostly) without facial expressions.

Simple example, batter in baseball, shot from behind. Or from the front. No matter what the result of the swing is (hit or out) if you don't see the concentration, the power, the disappointment or the joy, the photo is simply worth nothing compared to others.

 

[Deleted member 97740]

I swear people in this thread act like they're virgins. Ian is realistically portrayed. But I guess people play their porn games to feel like a sex god.

I think we have enough of those, I found that scene refreshingly realistic. If you're not a virgin, you've had that happen to you at least once, it's actually pretty immersive. xD

 

[John Doe Jr.]

this week or the next

So soon? That's amazing! Was having withdrawals

 

[John Doe Jr.]

You can have positions that allow you to see and don't look bizarre at the same time. Examine the image where Ash fucks Jess with a strap-on. Legs are too wide, the slightly turned angle is strange... It doesn't feel like they have sex and you just happen to watch it like a voyeur. It feels like you're on the front seat and they're performing for you, trying to look sexier for you, trying to turn you on, gauging your reaction, etc. I know it never bothered you but you can have a nice middle ground where the action looks realistic, passionate, emotional, and allows you to see everything you need at the same time.

Also, about the inferiority of still photos to the action itself. I personally really like how Deeper.com shoots their videos. They are action-heavy, but they are also well-acted. But you can't see that from the still promo shots:
Notice how promo still is staged as hell.

Spoiler: Promo picture

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In comparison, here's the screenshot from the trailer that despite being equally graphic actually shows a true look of lust.

Spoiler: Screenshot

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I mean, either one works tbh. It doesn't really bother me and when playing a porn game I'm not analyzing whether her legs are spread too far apart or this or that, I'm solely focused on whether I find the scene hot and I wouldn't be surprised if many laymen like me also play this way.

 

[John Doe Jr.]

You like it looking fake? Then have fun. I don't, because it takes me out of the scene. Spiking the camera in particular is such a blatant, "hey director, how are we doing? 1 more minute of this, then switch?" The only thing missing is the idiot director actually barking out instructions while the camera is rolling.

There are ways to capture a sex scene without it being boring and without it being blatantly obvious you're trying to mug for the camera. That's why I said I hope EvaKiss' taste in reference material improves, because there are studios and directors out there that have shown that there are ways to convey the action of a sex scene without resorting to the performers having sex at blatantly awkward angles just to please the camera.

If that's what you want then that's cool. For me it simply doesn't matter. The scenes are still hot and the feelings are still being conveyed to me.

 

[John Doe Jr.]

I guess I’m the odd case that like my porn to be “porny”

I don't think so at all. If you were the odd case then so much of mainstream porn wouldn't have the "porny" porn because no one would like it.

 

[Idontknowme]

I think something that is being ignored in this conversation about 'porny' reference pics is the fact that Eva needs a certain minimum resolution for the images in game. The porn you might like may not publish stills or not publish adequate volume that Eva requires. Amateur porn will also suffer from the same problems with the additional issue of having to watch endless porn to find her references. Video stills will also have some kind of motion blur which could complicate her tracing process.

The main problem is that high production value porn is, for the most part, directed at men and designed for the male gaze. Only when this changes will you find Eva's characters engrossed in each other during sex.