VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[SerHawkes]

Trying to make every character matter in the story is going to fuck her even more in the future, Stan should remain on sidelines, as a simp/cuck side activity where you can show him some exclusive content for $$$. Same with Robert, just a sidefuck like whatever that jock guy's name was in GGGB.

Instead of trying to make everyone matter it's better to make some characters shine more than others if your writing style is "go with the flow and see where it takes me". Now, since she's spent so much time on revamping Stan, she has one more character to fit in the grand scheme of things. Sunk cost fallacy.

Ultimately I do not care, nor I have any urge to tell someone how to write their own game, but it's like Eva forgot the lessons from writing GGGB and has to discover complex story pathing yet again. At this point either she narrows down or she's gonna end up with a convoluted clusterfuck, unable to progress, which could already be the case, at least to some degree considering she's doing a revamp in the middle of the story that no one has asked for.

Still, I hope for the best for her and her game.

I can agree with that. Trying to make some characters shine and add them to the grand scheme not only adds issues down the road in possible consistency but also makes neglecting other characters as well (Ivy -cough cough-) while simply trying to make a character "appear" better. Not every one of these Side Characters (Stan, Robert, Mike, etc) doesn't really need to be worked on if they simply are meant to be some side character or in Stans case, a real nobody character.

For me, I'm simply speaking my mind and current form of criticism of both the game and Eva. Sure, not many of these kiss asses and fanboys aren't gonna like it, but hey if it just so happens to make Eva do better writing/story-wise, then so be it. Eva's more than free to write how she wants and such doesn't mean that everyone isn't gonna be a fan of it. There are already too many kiss asses and yesmen/women that surround Devs these days.

 

[yrban7477]

bro we need new update

 

[SerHawkes]

bro we need new update

Patience is a virtue.

 

[Deleted member 3746368]

Patience is a virtue.

Kind of...
If it was like 2 concept art/uncompleted lineart a week then patience is virtue because you'd know what you're waiting for. whereas 2 posts with one completed image can sometimes just be like a letdown so patience may be virture but patience for too long and for unknown reason/ end result can be very frustrating.

 

[SerHawkes]

Kind of...
If it was like 2 concept art/uncompleted lineart a week then patience is virtue because you'd know what you're waiting for. whereas 2 posts with one completed image can sometimes just be like a letdown so patience may be virture but patience for too long and for unknown reason/ end result can be very frustrating.

Hence why Patience is a Virtue. The struggle is real. I would fucking know. I've been waiting for Ivy-Ian for 9 damn chapters. Though I will admit, the patience is indeed running thin. But with updates, the notion is simple: IT WILL BE OUT WHEN IT'S READY!

 

[JohnnySolo]

If Eva thinks Stan is worth it, then it is so, because what some people can't seem to realize, Eva wants to write what she likes. Writing something you don't enjoy is what truly not worth it. And no novel of decent quality has been written "first try", without multiple revisions or rewrites of chapters or even entire storylines.

Well of course EvaKiss can do what she wants. But doing such a large re-writing after you have already published a round 45% to 50% of the story is a bit unlucky and as mentioned already by others it doesn’t make her work easier for the future.

To be honest I can understand some of the frustration. Since the release of the 0.9 final version none of the updates/teaser get me curious about the content EveKiss is currently reworking. For me the Stan story seems to be even more unlikely than the Robert story and the Seymour story would have some potential, but was in my opinion implemented to obvious (maybe it would have been better to improve this storyline).

 

[dolfe67]

Personally, I'll still ignore Stan. I'm not interested in that type of characters. But he has his audience, he was 3rd place in popularity contest last year despite EK not liking how she wrote him

 

[patachoucs]

I for one don't mind a rewrite every 3-4 updates. I think it gives a break to Eva to refine the plot, reworks some paths, slow down a bit, figure out where to go next to.

Kind of a step back to look at what you've done, where you're going, etc.

And it's more manageable that way than having to redo everything from scratch at the end of the game (as BloodyMares pointed it out once or twice already).
And again, as he said, that's actually something that happen with any and every work in progress. You guys would be shocked how some of your favorites movies, books, hell even VNs, got a last minute BIG change that shaped it the way it was and made it that thing you like so much. Except because you only ever saw the finished product, you never learned about the creative struggles. It's part of the process.
We just have to give Eva some credits. So far, she has mostly delivered, and imo deserves the trust.

 

[The_Searcher]

Long reading only user here, but finally I wanted to put my opinion about ORS and the actual state of the game.

First of all, I enjoyed a LOT GGGB. It's probably my favourite eroge interactive visual novel of all time. The huge number of paths, decisions, events, characters, etc... It's awesome and very unique. As a matter of fact I didn't find anything remotely similar to that game, and I think that says a lot.

Spoiler

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Aside that, ORS it's a great game. I hope we can see the end in the future but maybe it's a good idea to not get more complex with the story because if it's not the case, we will see more of this problems in the future.

And that's all, sorry for the wall of text and great Forum!

 

[☆Jonathan Wick♤]

Personally, I'll still ignore Stan. I'm not interested in that type of characters. But he has his audience, he was 3rd place in popularity contest last year despite EK not liking how she wrote him

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You said it yourself, Stan had quite a few fans who liked his appearance and story until chapter 9 and were eager to see how his story progressed prior to the rewrite/restructuring of his character, at the moment it is uncertain if he would be able to maintain that popularity especially among those who have been able to play and see Stan before the rewrite.

 

[bauman]

I for one don't mind a rewrite every 3-4 updates. I think it gives a break to Eva to refine the plot, reworks some paths, slow down a bit, figure out where to go next to.

Kind of a step back to look at what you've done, where you're going, etc.

And it's more manageable that way than having to redo everything from scratch at the end of the game (as BloodyMares pointed it out once or twice already).
And again, as he said, that's actually something that happen with any and every work in progress. You guys would be shocked how some of your favorites movies, books, hell even VNs, got a last minute BIG change that shaped it the way it was and made it that thing you like so much. Except because you only ever saw the finished product, you never learned about the creative struggles. It's part of the process.
We just have to give Eva some credits. So far, she has mostly delivered, and imo deserves the trust.

Regular re-writes can kill the potential of a story-oriented game like ORS, especially if they are significant enough to alter the story as a whole. Players have already established their headcanon since we're roughly halfway through the game's development, and if you suddenly go back and change large chunks of the game, it will mess up with their perception. Simply put, the players are familiar with the established characters, and changing them too much is never a good idea.

I'll give you an example: Wade was re-written as a bigger bum than he was initially, but I have to remind myself of the change while replaying through the story because, in the early versions, he was just a regular guy who was feeling bummed out for working a dead-end job, and that's still the lasting impression I have of the character despite the dev's revision. Personally, if the re-writes become a consistent thing, I'll probably wait for the game's completion before touching it again.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare the ORS re-writes to games, books, movies, tv-series because the re-writes there remain in the writer's room. The consumer can only judge the final product, unlike ORS and other VNs in active development. IMO, Eva's best course of action is to take the time she needs to write the story as she wants instead of revisiting past content every couple of updates.

 

[Daken9]

Personally, I'll still ignore Stan. I'm not interested in that type of characters. But he has his audience, he was 3rd place in popularity contest last year despite EK not liking how she wrote him

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Let's be honest here, looking at that line-up even the gangbanger from GGGB would come third. Hell, he'd come first. Most of those 'characters' are literally just stereotypes, and not too interesting ones either.

Having said that, dunno what's the point of Stan's rework. If he was the exception then sure, but since he's just one more shallow (male) character in a sea of shallow might as well just soldier on and try to make them less so as she goes. But it's her game and she's the writer, so who knows.

 

[TheBlackGungir]

Personally, I'll still ignore Stan. I'm not interested in that type of characters. But he has his audience, he was 3rd place in popularity contest last year despite EK not liking how she wrote him

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Surprised to see Jeremy but I agree 100% feel like he should've maybe got his own route over Stan. I am even more surprised with Perry being 4th to me Perry is the holy fuck is the dude's unbearable character didn't know a lot of people vibe with him.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

That poll got screwed up because people could vote multiple times, so I suspect hardcore trolling. The top four is baiscly crowded with the least attractive men in the game. (Back then Seymour was a somewhat boring old photographer with no clear agenda.)It's not even a matter of taste.

 

[dundun]

Instead of trying to make everyone matter it's better to make some characters shine more than others if your writing style is "go with the flow and see where it takes me". Now, since she's spent so much time on revamping Stan, she has one more character to fit in the grand scheme of things. Sunk cost fallacy.

Ultimately I do not care, nor I have any urge to tell someone how to write their own game, but it's like Eva forgot the lessons from writing GGGB and has to discover complex story pathing yet again. At this point either she narrows down or she's gonna end up with a convoluted clusterfuck, unable to progress, which could already be the case, at least to some degree considering she's doing a revamp in the middle of the story that no one has asked for.

But wasn't the 'complexity', the vast amount of hugely different choices what people liked about GGGB? Isn't that exactly what puts its above any other game? The problem with the end wasn't so much its inconsistancy but the need to come up with something new, with ever more over the top scenes.

I can agree with that. Trying to make some characters shine and add them to the grand scheme not only adds issues down the road in possible consistency but also makes neglecting other characters as well (Ivy -cough cough-) while simply trying to make a character "appear" better. Not every one of these Side Characters (Stan, Robert, Mike, etc) doesn't really need to be worked on if they simply are meant to be some side character or in Stans case, a real nobody character.

So ... you want EvaKiss to stop wasting effort on 'side' characters and put more effort in one other character? Why? Just because you happen to be into Ivy?

Spoiler: off tangent about Ivy

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I get the feeling you guys are just pissed your favourite character isn't getting the attention other characters are getting like Robert (nine scenes and counting ) or now Stan with his rewrite. But, you know, a game is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are gonna get.

That poll got screwed up because people could vote multiple times, so I suspect hardcore trolling. The top four is baiscly crowded with the least attractive men in the game. (Back then Seymour was a somewhat boring old photographer with no clear agenda.)It's not even a matter of taste.

How so? You could only vote once for every character.

 

[XXXVAA]

Personally, I'll still ignore Stan. I'm not interested in that type of characters. But he has his audience, he was 3rd place in popularity contest last year despite EK not liking how she wrote him

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lord, people really have a black dude fetish.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

How so? You could only vote once for every character.

I might remember this exact poll wrong, but I'm 100% sure there was a poll about favourite cast that was hijacked. But I kinda hope you are right, as hijacking a porn game poll is new-level pathetic. But.. Also, if this poll is accurate my hope for humanity is lost, Stan and Perry ? I can kinda understand Jeremy, if you are a POC and want some representation, but otherwise that's just as mind boggling. Then again, im not here to police content or peoples tase. I'm just very suprised.

 

[dundun]

I might remember this exact poll wrong, but I'm 100% sure there was a poll about favourite cast that was hijacked. But I kinda hope you are right, as hijacking a porn game poll is new-level pathetic. But.. Also, if this poll is accurate my hope for humanity is lost, Stan and Perry ? I can kinda understand Jeremy, if you are a POC and want some representation, but otherwise that's just as mind boggling. Then again, im not here to police content or peoples tase. I'm just very suprised.

They are 3rd and 4th out of seven. They got 18% and 13% of the votes, and beat Axel, Mark, Wade and Robert, not exactly the most sympathetic characters in the game. So I can't really see any foul play.

 

[BloodyMares]

IMO, Eva's best course of action is to take the time she needs to write the story as she wants instead of revisiting past content every couple of updates.

Who said that revisiting past content isn't part of Eva writing the story the way she wants to write and taking the time to polish it? You'd have a point if said revisions were done because of someone's influence, but that's not the case here.

 

[BloodyMares]

I might remember this exact poll wrong, but I'm 100% sure there was a poll about favourite cast that was hijacked. But I kinda hope you are right, as hijacking a porn game poll is new-level pathetic. But.. Also, if this poll is accurate my hope for humanity is lost, Stan and Perry ? I can kinda understand Jeremy, if you are a POC and want some representation, but otherwise that's just as mind boggling. Then again, im not here to police content or peoples tase. I'm just very suprised.

IIRC, the poll wasn't about the most likeable male character, but also the most entertaining one (you love to hate). And Perry is the most entertaining male character in the game. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. One time he helps you get the girl's contact info, another you want to strangle him for ratting you out to said girl, then he roasts Jeremy in the most hilarious way possible and also has a massive crush on Axel.