VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[Olsens.M]

@ MarkOlsen
I find quite insane that you get this bothered with an erotic game - did we finally get to the age where people can't distinguish reality from fiction?
Maybe all the disclaimers in these VNs/Games about being a work of fiction isn't really enough.

I don't think anyone is forcing you to play these games, yet here you are.

Grow. The. Fuck. Up.

why is all this rage, when what I am replying isn't for you or isn't about a game you made? As far as I can tell I gave my opinion agreeing with something someone else said. You are the one who seemed enraged for telling me to "grow the fuck up".

Everyone knows it is a game, that doesn't mean all women have to work on jobs where they sell their bodies or being forced into it if they want to achieve professional success. Not everyone has to write the same story over and over again, what end up being a problem in most vns, people copy others work and ideas, being unable to create their own. I pointed it was the second game from the same dev following almost the same story.

And she can find good guys, why not? Ian is the only good one because we control him. Robert forces a kiss when she already said no, Axel does the same, when she already said no as well. Then come the old dude, When she tells him no, he will kind of try to end her career where she can find no job if she doesn'r submit. On my gameplays I told him to fuck off, on all of them. She can even work as a model if she wants to, but she will be on control of everything, no one will control how she does her things and she will decide who she wants to fuck it, no one will try and force it into her.

No one is forcing me, that doesn't mean I can't point out things I don't like. But on the overall, I like this game and even have it on my list of best VNs, I just don't like some aspects of it and I have no problem in voicing it, you know why? because I already grew up.

 

[Éama]

Much like GGGB, this game has themes of corruption and sexual depravity. It is a fact in our society that women tend to be sexualized
People here refer to Eva Kiss, the developer of this game as "she" or "her". If you saw some of my comments in this thread, you will notice that I am subtlety alluding to or implying that the developer is not a woman at all. Now I'm going to lose that subtlety and say explicitly that "Eva Kiss" is definitely a guy. I don't know why people here are using a female pronoun to refer to the developer, maybe it's because of the name or maybe the developer told them that he is a she, but he is no way a woman. To be honest, it doesn't really matter whatever their gender is, but it can be deceiving if the game is marketed as having made with a female sensibility that lets women enjoy a porn game without the overbearing male gaze. I have read a lot of books, including erotic ones and I can definitely see when a writing is not written by a woman. There is just that undertone in a writing that makes me know if something is not made with a female hand. Now to be clear, I'm not saying that I know when something is made by a woman, only that I know when something is not made by a woman, and that's because some male writers have evolved their writing and have a more nuanced sensibility rather than the usual writing of males that is so swamped with a male gaze. I enjoy reading both, but it is important to know why a certain writing is such.

Even if it seems hard for you to understand there is much more diversity among men and women, both in terms of their own identity, their behaviour or choice of words. I thought that was a truism, but somehow these discussions keep coming up. There is absolutely no rulebook on how to speak correctly as a man or a woman, or how to experience or express sexuality. I think this is more important to you personally to somehow exert control and sort the world according to your own ideas, but it has nothing to do with Eva Kiss.

 

[papasmurf]

I don't think Ian swings that way bro.

read what i asked can u hook up perry with one of the girls?

 

[dundun]

I disagree there. Money flow is always a blocker for ambitious, low-staffed indie games. With a much larger cash-flow, she has many more options to find a talented, qualified linework artist she is satisfied with, among other paid staff, including a producer to delegate/navigate day-to-day tasks like Steam for her. With enough money flowing in, her largest blocker would be herself, if she isn't willing to relinquish control of some of the minutia to focus on the writing, big-picture art direction and general game design. The biggest bottleneck in a higher cash situation where she's willing to relinquish control of the minutia would be the writing. But she'd have so much more time to focus on it.

So how much money would be enough?
It does not really make sense for her to fully employ people, she is likely giving out commissions. Definitely for backgrounds and music. Paying her colorist on a monthly basis would have been a colossal waste of money last year as all she had to do was chapter 9 and some reworks for the remaster. And the linework is likely even less time consuming.
So the ~10k she is getting now should already be plenty.

I have read a lot of books, including erotic ones and I can definitely see when a writing is not written by a woman. There is just that undertone in a writing that makes me know if something is not made with a female hand. Now to be clear, I'm not saying that I know when something is made by a woman, only that I know when something is not made by a woman, and that's because some male writers have evolved their writing and have a more nuanced sensibility rather than the usual writing of males that is so swamped with a male gaze. I enjoy reading both, but it is important to know why a certain writing is such.

Okay.
One question, though. So how do you check? Once you figured out that one author can't be a woman, how to you check you are right?

I don't know whether you are correct about the dev, but I hope you truly know what you are talking about and understand the possible impact of your comment.

To ease your mind, in her

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she doesn't really seem to care what people think about her gender.

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Marcel, on the other hand, is more of a mystery. I checked the interactions with him when I played the remaster: The first time is when Lena and Louise meet him together, and Louise thinks he's flirting with Lena, while Lena thinks he was only being friendly. He did call her "baby", though. The second time he recognises Lena as Ivy's friend, but not Louise (poor woman, always outshined by her friends). That's followed by the interaction where he shows some interest in Holly's writing, which ends in both of them introducing themselves to Marcel. That's it.

Anyone got an idea what we might see him involved in? It seems unlikely that Holly, even if she's influenced by Ivy, will get involved with a bouncer three times her size yet; she does literally hide behind Lena when they first meet him. I could see a night out at Blazer for Lena, where she's could end the night with several different partners depending on the playthrough—also including a spontaneous option to hook up with Marcel. But my guess would probably be something relating to Ivy: "What are you saying, Holly, you haven't gotten a single dick pic from Mark/Ian yet? You should just ask them, guys love sending pictures of their dicks. Let me send a text to that bouncer guy at the club, I guarantee you he'll send me his dick within a minute."

My first thought was that it is a joke
On second thought, maybe he is part of Holly's training? Ivy could show her how to seduce a guy and then make her watch them having sex and in the end participate. Ivy told Lena in Chapter 9 she should join them again for some fun so Lena could be part of it, too. Actually, that would be pretty hot.

 

[Canto Forte]

You either write your own story, where you choose to be the protagonist, or you stay sidelined, sidetracked,
a creep looking at others having fun.
In this game you have the luxury to become two different characters in making this game their story.
Should you wanna be a defetist about making this game the story of the protagonists they embody,
rather wanting to be a fly on the wall, the insignifficant creep looking at other NPCs going about their selfish business,
whine as you may, nothing will change the fact you guided your MC into the disgusting / unconfortable / bad scenes.

Whatever you choose, remember that the path you can actually influence is that of your MC, all others are kinetic.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

rather than the usual writing of males that is so swamped with a male gaze.

I dunno. Eva has stated numerous times that she will not be including the male gays in her erotic content.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

So the bug on Minerva's scanes was fixed? Nice, time to play again.

 

[DarknessDai]

so will Ian be able to date all the girls ? Emma had sex with Ian and Jeremey idk if we will be able to date her after this , plus what paths do u think we will have in the future ? i just wish we can have path for Ivy and turn her into good girl lol or Jessic she seems hot

 

[KirYn]

This erotic VN needs some male moaning in some of the sex scenes, not the lesbian ones, of course, because that would be weird. I want to hear Ian's orgasm groans!

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I should have only specified in erotic/pornographic or amateur writing. But the reason why I said some male writers are able to "evolve" their writing is because a lot tend to have a very coarse writing when it comes to a character's sensuality and passive female characters. The context here is that a lot of male writers are transfixed in the usual male gaze of their writing. Female writers don't really "evolve" from male gaze do they? That is not to say that female writers don't have issues of their own. But it is disingenuous for you to accuse me of saying female writers aren't able to "evolve" in their writing when the context of evolve here relates to the male gaze. This is also not to say that I don't enjoy them but this is why one can perceive why something probably isn't written by a female. Compare the writing of the games in this site to smutty fanfic written by women.

That’s a reasonable clarification, but I don’t think it makes it any more warranted to claim that “he is no way a woman” with such a know-it-all attitude. I don’t know exactly what you consider the male gaze in ORS to consist of, but personally I think there’s distinctly less of that than in other similar games, and in porn culture in general—which is one of the things I like about the game. As Zedire and others have mentioned as well, a good writer will also understand how to write to reach their audience, and adapting to a male gaze should if anything be easier than the opposite, because it’s so dominant in so many areas of popular culture.

My first thought was that it is a joke
On second thought, maybe he is part of Holly's training? Ivy could show her how to seduce a guy and then make her watch them having sex and in the end participate. Ivy told Lena in Chapter 9 she should join them again for some fun so Lena could be part of it, too. Actually, that would be pretty hot.

Yeah, I don’t really see why it would be necessary to add them one episode in advance, so I assume Eva’s done it as some kind of teaser—or as a joke, as you mention. The remaster also had that new background art for the bathrooms at Marcel’s workplace… just sayin

 

[desmosome]

Marcel, on the other hand, is more of a mystery. I checked the interactions with him when I played the remaster: The first time is when Lena and Louise meet him together, and Louise thinks he's flirting with Lena, while Lena thinks he was only being friendly. He did call her "baby", though. The second time he recognises Lena as Ivy's friend, but not Louise (poor woman, always outshined by her friends). That's followed by the interaction where he shows some interest in Holly's writing, which ends in both of them introducing themselves to Marcel. That's it.

Anyone got an idea what we might see him involved in? It seems unlikely that Holly, even if she's influenced by Ivy, will get involved with a bouncer three times her size yet; she does literally hide behind Lena when they first meet him. I could see a night out at Blazer for Lena, where she's could end the night with several different partners depending on the playthrough—also including a spontaneous option to hook up with Marcel. But my guess would probably be something relating to Ivy: "What are you saying, Holly, you haven't gotten a single dick pic from Mark/Ian yet? You should just ask them, guys love sending pictures of their dicks. Let me send a text to that bouncer guy at the club, I guarantee you he'll send me his dick within a minute."

I don't think it's so complicated. If my memory is accurate, the variable was holly_marcel. That basically tells me that he will form some type of relationship with holly specifically. By comparison, the variable for the asian dude was holly_guy. This means Holly will get some more focused development with the bouncer. Asian dude could just be an off-screen things or minor phone pictures, while Marcel will likely get real scenes.

We could speculate on the nature of the scenes. The straightforward progression would be some BBC corruption. If that seems a bit heavy handed, I could totally see some subverted expectations with a gentle giant approach.

 

[WatsonJohn]

Even if it seems hard for you to understand there is much more diversity among men and women, both in terms of their own identity, their behaviour or choice of words. I thought that was a truism, but somehow these discussions keep coming up. There is absolutely no rulebook on how to speak correctly as a man or a woman, or how to experience or express sexuality. I think this is more important to you personally to somehow exert control and sort the world according to your own ideas, but it has nothing to do with Eva Kiss.

I never said that people aren't diverse in their writing but there is such commonality among a certain male writers which can be seen in decades of film, books, and other forms of media that writers and scholars have pointed out this phenomenon and have distinguished it as male gaze. Even female writers that have highly sexualized female characters tend not to have the same characteristics. Unless of course you think this phenomenon doesn't exist or that their observations are false. It's not about me "exerting my control" when there are literatures and scholarly works that discuss this.

I dunno. Eva has stated numerous times that she will not be including the male gays in her erotic content.

I don't think straight men generally like watching gay porn.

That’s a reasonable clarification, but I don’t think it makes it any more warranted to claim that “he is no way a woman” with such a know-it-all attitude. I don’t know exactly what you consider the male gaze in ORS to consist of, but personally I think there’s distinctly less of that than in other similar games, and in porn culture in general—which is one of the things I like about the game. As Zedire and others have mentioned as well, a good writer will also understand how to write to reach their audience, and adapting to a male gaze should if anything be easier than the opposite, because it’s so dominant in so many areas of popular culture.

I guess that can be possible. I find it odd that they would do that to their writing when it can be noted that even men can enjoy erotic writing of women while not adhering fully to the male gaze and that female writers don't generally do this. But sure maybe Eva Kiss can be the exception.

 

[dundun]

The remaster also had that new background art for the bathrooms at Marcel’s workplace… just sayin

That is already used in chapter 7, when Ivy orders Lena to follow her to the bathroom to check her Stalkfap and use MDMA. There is also a new background outside the blazer. So it is not really a hint that things might happen there, just a missing background added, like the mall.

 

[jimmyjambles]

I hve said something about it a while back. Most of games where girls are protagonists all the guys around are dicks, If you take this game as an example, most of guys wanna take her by force. Axel tried, Robert as well and the old fucker. And when she rejected them, at least 2 of them tried to fuck her life. She lost her job at the restaurant and now the old fucker wants to end her life for not wanting to be submissive ot him.

Despite that she can't get a good job other than a job where she has to sell her body. It shows no respect for women at all. That is why any chance I get I turn my girls into lesbians. It is not even because I am a man and I love girls, it is because the choices these games gives are all the worst. No decent human beings. And if the girl wanna succeed in their life they have to corrupt themselves and become sluts. It is like if women has nothing of value other than their bodies.

For me, the struggles with predation in a male-dominated society are actually what make Lena a much more compelling character than Ian. Perspectives like hers rarely emerge in games, TV, or film, and the literary forms are pretty niche. Her background also comes into the foreground with Axel's presence, creating continuity and dimensions, while Ian largely emerges from the mists with a fully-formed group of friends and no real pressures beyond a dysfunctional boss whose attitude towards him can be ignored without any lasting consequences. He even has the luxury to spend hours writing his magnum opus -- when he's not drowning in tail.

It seems as though he would have been better positioned as a non-playable love interest for Lena, as I don't think he has enough texture for us to see the world through his eyes. The view from his window just isn't that interesting. I never find myself saying, "Man, how is he going to dig himself out of this hole?" Whereas Lena is always behind the 8-ball.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I don't think straight men generally like watching gay porn.

Fair enough. But if Eva's a straight man, that's one straight man unusually obsessed with Jeremy's big black penis.

 

[Bloom12345]

I tried it. Didn't work. Could you tell what you picked for her dialog, please?

There is also a choice to sit or keep standing(keep standing) in one of their conversations.

 

[Bloom12345]

Oh boy, wat if Seymour is Lena's dad.......

 

[Innovative maniac]

Is it only me or does it's seems like Ian get heavily ntl' ed? Poor guy is already at bottom end why not kick him more.

 

[desmosome]

Is it only me or does it's seems like Ian get heavily ntl' ed? Poor guy is already at bottom end why not kick him more.

Why did you make him get NTRed?

 

[Skylark21]

It's always funny how some people put their characters in a certain situations (which could be completely avoided) intentionally only to cry like a bitch about it later.