VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[Ragnar]

Of course, I understand perfectly that there is a huge risk involved in it. But it doesn't change my opinion that Lena's POV feels extremely uninspired, which I think has its root cause in that Eva is only using it to appease her patrons rather than of her own motivation. It's falling more and more into GGGB territory, something that Eva did not want a repeat of.

At that point, I think long-term it would be better to back yourself, trust your own vision and accept that there would be an immediate negative effect, which would slowly dissipate as time goes on.

I also disagree that it would be best to focus on Ian x Lena. This would make both POVs redundant and the game all about romancing yourself.

I think is quite obvious that IanxLena is the main point of the story since the very beginning. The rest of npcs and stories are fluff.

 

[Geigi]

Damn, I've reached my reaction limit.

 

[DatBoit]

I think this is on point but uncharitable... I think it's better to look at the problems with ORS in artistic terms rather than through the lens of Eva cynically chasing patrons.

The idea of two protagonists whose relationship expands and contracts based upon decisions they make with regards to each other and with regards to the people around them is a really interesting one but it was always *very* ambitious for a porn game.

I can imagine a French film director doing something amazing with the idea of two people feeling a genuine connection only to wind up messing it up because they can't break with old habits, old influences, or stop looking over the horizon for the next chance at a truly world-class threesome. The problem is that this isn't the type of story that porn games tend to tell... most porn games are either escapist fantasies with male MCs or they're weird corruption fantasies with female MCs. GGGB was a world-class example of the latter but I think Eva wanted to write more and you can sense that ambition in the fact that so many of the endings in GGGB are really fucked-up and borderline depressing when you look beyond the fact that the protagonist is having a grand old time as far as orgasms are concerned.

There is a sense in which ORS is an NTR game as the emotional dynamics are a lot closer to those of the better-written NTR games (like Misfits) than your typical escapist fantasy. NTR games often have this quite interesting dynamic where you start out trying to manipulate your GF into cheating on you so that you can fuck other people guilt-free only for it to drift slowly into 'I am perverting my GF because it turns me on to see her surrender completely to her desires' and I think that ORS taps into some of those dynamics without really engaging or wanting to be an NTR game.

Where I think OP's critique is really on point is the fact that, as written, ORS is more like two games with occasional crossovers than a game about a couple. Reading this thread, a lot of people approach the game by leaning into the MCs alternate relationships and I think that reflects Eva's struggles keeping the game centred upon the couple. To be honest, I don't get the impression that Lena and Ian are all that into each other as neither of them seem to think about each other when they're apart and nobody at any point goes 'Oooooh... maybe I shouldn't try and fuck their best friend'

With regards to the criticisms that Ian's love interests are better than Lena's: I think that's true of GGGB too... in that game, there's a nice artist and your high school boyfriend (who you wind up believing is dead) and every other dude is an abusive, manipulative, degenerate prick. I think unsympathetic-but-hot characters are Eva's calling card.

I agree with you that a dual protagnonist setup is inherently interesting, and I'm sure Eva saw all of the allure with it that you have outlined here. Where I think she went wrong is that it was something she did not think through carefully enough, hoping that she could make it work as she went along, even though such a setup requires an extreme amount of precision.

 

[Nifferman]

Said this in the past,im going to say it now and im going to say this many times in the future.
THANK FUCKING GOD EVAKISS ONLY LISTEN TO HER PATREONS!
Holy shit the crying is way too much

I think someone hacked this Alison stan's account.

 

[Xupuzulla]

I think is quite obvious that IanxLena is the main point of the story since the very beginning. The rest of npcs and stories are fluff.

The whole appeal of this game is the multiple choices and the LIs,if you cut everything you are left with what?
A Lena-Ian dating simulator?

 

[Erectosaurus]

Actually you do, for your opinion to matter in the slightest anyway. If you aren't supporting the game or the developer then have the decency to just say thank you for the update, then go disappear. Noone cares what you think, least of all the developer.

Says who? A product doesn't magically become less shit because I shilled out money for it. And if you don't care what people who pirate the game think then why are you crying about it so much? Take your own advice.

 

[Nifferman]

The whole appeal of this game is the multiple choices and the LIs,if you cut everything you are left with what?
A Lena-Ian dating simulator?

Lena-Ian dating simulator sounds really appealing

 

[Xupuzulla]

I think someone hacked this Alison stan's account.

Why?
I think the update is very good,that Holly scene made my balls tingle.
I think some people here need to realize this game inst for them anymore.

 

[Arata20]

I can only echo what everyone else is saying about this being a terrible update. It was essentially just a fuckfest that saw us skipping from one sex scene to another, with minimal dialogue and story progression. Although fuckfests can be fun, this was so bare bones that it barely fits the critera of an AVN, and struck me as more of a random scene collection with porn-level buildup. Adding to all of this, it was extremely short and ammounted to no more than 20 minutes of playtime. You just expect so much more from a developer with Eva Kiss's track record.

Again, though, it comes back to the fact that she set herself up to fail with ORS. She bit off more than she can chew by having two main characters, an as development has gone on, it has become increasingly obvious that this is causing her a world of issues, as she is practically developing two games at the same time, while also tasked with intertwining them. It requires producing twice the amount of content, and disentanglig a whole range of variations and dialogue, which is simply too much for one person to handle, especially when I think her motivation is very different when producing Ian's content versus Lena's content.

Which brings me onto my theory, which is that I firmly believe that Eva, after GGGB, was always intending to make a male MC game. I remember her development diaries she posted back then, reflecting on the fact that virtually all the successful AVNs are with a male MC, asking herself whether the ought to also go this route to reach the same level of success. She was further saying that she felt done with the GGGB type of storyline, and was looking for some new challenge.

But then she got scared, I think, because all of the polls she was running, as well as the sentiment in her comment section, showed that the female MC was one of the premiere reasons for supporting her. So she gave in, settled for having two main characters, hoping that it would satisfy both ends of the spectrum and give herself the challenge she sought, but not fully recognizing the momentous ordeal this would become.

My theory also makes some sense if we consider the vast difference in quality between Ian and Lena's side of the story. Ian's love interests are far superior and his character development is way more interesting. Ian is actually going somewhere, he is finding success in his writing, in his relationship and his personal improvement, both physically and confidence wise, which makes him overall quite easy to sympathize with. This is in stark contrast to Lena, who, quite frankly, have a bunch of bums as love interests and whose character is completely inconsistent, falling into the typical depravities in corruption games, while trying to have some saving grace in her musical ambitions. It just doesn't work - her storyline is all over the place and suggests that it is not supported by the same level of planning and motivation as Ian's.

And here we are. We have seen increasing development, disappointing and shorter updates, reworks, and an absurd chapter structure of prologue, epilogue and 2-4 partial updates. It has simply gone completely haywire. I think all of this has its root cause in the dual protagonist setup, and a differing motivation for those two characters.

To be honest, as controversial as it would be, I believe the best decision, for the future of ORS, would be to kill Lena's POV. It would immediately reduce the amount of content Eva has to make, and allow her to focus on providing something meaningful and gratifying for Ian's POV. I understand it would be extremely controversial and possibly deter a lot of people from playing the game, but when the alternative is to let things continue to spiral out of control, I can't help but feel like Eva should show some strong leadership and confidence in her ability, and stick up for what she believes is best and want to do.

Otherwise, I'm afraid we're in for a rocky road with ORS going forward, seeing the tendencies we are seeing amplified, and ending up with a rather disillusioning final third of the game, where everything is a mess and there is no real sense of direction. And that would be the real tragedy I think.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

imho

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[DatBoit]

I think is quite obvious that IanxLena is the main point of the story since the very beginning. The rest of npcs and stories are fluff.

Sure, but this would require changing the whole narrative structure, as it makes no sense first being on Ian's POV, getting the choice to pursue Lena, and then being on Lena's POV getting the choice to accept Ian's advances.

If the focus should be Ian x Lena, a third-person POV or a kinetic structure would work better. Or possibly, having a select few choices to shape the characters, leading to different, predetermined outcomes for their relationship.

 

[Nifferman]

Why?
I think the update is very good,that Holly scene made my balls tingle.
I think some people here need to realize this game inst for them anymore.

The scene itself was hot, but the pacing wasn't, cuz that was something even the slutty version Lena had yet to do. But, God bless this game's an RPG so allot options to choose from.

 

[Geigi]

The scene itself was hot, but the pacing wasn't, cuz that was something even the slutty version Lena had yet to do. But, God bless this game an RPG so allot option to choose from.

Lena? More like Ivy.

 

[Maevos]

Actually you do, for your opinion to matter in the slightest anyway. If you aren't supporting the game or the developer then have the decency to just say thank you for the update, then go disappear. Noone cares what you think, least of all the developer.

What an unfortunate comment.

Similarly you also have to pay prostitutes and whores if you want them to listen to you but you also get to fuck them as an additional bonus.

 

[Nifferman]

Lena? More like Ivy.

Lean's the MC and she has option to be slutty earlier than Holly, that's why I said Lena instead of Ivy. And my gal Ivy is still a virgin she has yet to have any scene apart from bj and lesbian ones

 

[Geigi]

Lean's the MC and she has option to be slutty earlier than Holly, that's why I said Lena instead of Ivy. And my gal Ivy is still a virgin she has yet to have any scene apart from bj and lesbian ones

Yeah, considering her promiscuity, she hasn't really had that many scenes.

 

[Ragnar]

The whole appeal of this game is the multiple choices and the LIs,if you cut everything you are left with what?
A Lena-Ian dating simulator?

You have plenty of choices already to end with others. That doesn't change the main route, IanxLena.
- IanxHolly ending.
- LenaxWhatshisname ending.
- Lena the slut x Ian the cuck ending.
- ...
The game has no real goal besides choosing a partner or several for our MCs. They're not fighting evil corps or whatever.

 

[CreativeCritic2]

I agree with you that a dual protagnonist setup is inherently interesting, and I'm sure Eva saw all of the allure with it that you have outlined here. Where I think she went wrong is that it was something she did not think through carefully enough, hoping that she could make it work as she went along, even though such a setup requires an extreme amount of precision.

Yeah... agreed. The way that set-up has changed over time and the way some updates have been quite radical suggest that she has been continuously trying to write her way out of trouble and struggling to do so.

 

[vgbestly]

These crazy eyes always gets me lol

 

[KhanJr]

You have plenty of choices already to end with others. That doesn't change the main route, IanxLena.
- IanxHolly ending.
- LenaxWhatshisname ending.
- Lena the slut x Ian the cuck ending.
- ...
The game has no real goal besides choosing a partner or several for our MCs. They're not fighting evil corps or whatever.

...YET

 

[Xupuzulla]

The thing is,your crying is never going to change anything if you are not a patreon,that is how it is.
And i know,this is kinda ironic from me,my crying never stopped Ian from being a garden gnome