VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[| Vee |]

Why do you think it was just on a whim?, plenty of time between one estimate and another to think about it and change her mind for whatever reason. IMO her big mistake here was originally setting expectactions for 20 chapters. It's crazy to me to unnecessarily set yourself up for such a long-term commitment, specially when her storytelling doesn't seem to rely on a detailed and fixed roadmap. Just keep it vague...

Just on whim? An estimate can never be this big and raging up and down from one update to another especially if the base story is set in stone(even with changes along the way)...

I did mentioned my reason of speculation in green as JoJoPool confirmed

EK's stories were never set in stone to begin with, She herself stated before that she comes up with stuff as she goes

...As to the why cut it down your original estimate from 20 to 16 and now get it back to maybe 16-20 or even more, plenty of possibilities. Obviously only she can really answer, but I can guess:

• Chapter 11 took less time to develop than some of the previous ones, maybe she's more optimistic on being able to release chapters faster from now on. Some change on her way of doing things or she found some tool to expedite things, I don't know. The result would be she being able to release more content during the timeframe she had in her head for commiting to ORS.
• She got new ideas that make her more confident in being able to release something closer in lenght to her original vision than to what she thought when she cut down the estimated number of chapters.
• She plans to release shorter chapters so the content will be less spaced out between releases, so it would be the same content as with more chapters.
• For some reason (financial, a change on her personal life, whatever) she now thinks she would be able to keep her commitment to ORS for a longer time than when she reduced the original estimation.

I'm probably missing plenty of other possible reasons, or maybe it's a mix between more than one. Just keep in mind than doing a game like ORS takes writing, making art and coding, three of the harder human activities to accurately make estimations on. We have seen it in plenty of AAA games and those are projects with millions of dollars budgets and people strictly dedicated to estimate deadlines and make sure to meet them. Some of those games ended up in development hell and were canceled and some of them ended up being masterpieces.

To sum up, I'm not saying that going back to a possible higher number of estimated chapters is necessarily a good thing. As I said some other time we discuss this topic a number of chapters doesn't mean anything by itself, the quality of the content delivered on them does. But personally, I'm reasonably more optimistic with the most recent estimate as it could open up more possibilities for the less popular (among her patrons) paths to be fully realized. Or not, only time will tell, of course.

You do make valid points. I'll list some possibilities too:

1. She was experimenting with AI so we might get to witness something/s (I'm happy with this as it will increase productivity and speed up things and she can touch up things in photoshop not that difficult but time consuming at first to get hang of it. If you can get your hand set on how to use it productively it would boost productively massively.)
2. Adding more character and Chapters are inter-linked as one will increase other will automatically increase in amount too. So that could be a reason too but it would mean more workload
3. As now cast is larger she didn't want to abandon or leave characters hanging in terms of content and went ahead to make it count them
4. She got more members in her team

I'm leaning towards my 1st, 2nd and 3rd and your 1st, 2nd and 3rd points more. If I've to choose one of them all, I would choose between your (1st + 2nd) and my (1st + 2nd) as she mentioned in Q&A experimenting with AI.

#HopeCH12

 

[MrBubu]

Walkthrough Update

I've updated my walkthrough.


The file is too large to be attached here so you will have to get it from here:

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Visit my thread to post suggestions for my next work.


Cheers,
Mr Bubu

 

[rj677]

Which makes the Patreons Q&A pointless and a waste of time. Why bother elaborating on planned scenes, number of chapters etc. if anything can change?

Denying the recent 15-17 chapter at very least opens up the possibility that we ge pairs like Ian/Louise or a bit more Ian/Ivy, since Eva ruling them out now doesn't mean anything at all.

Im not gonna talk for other people but, in my case, I like to elaborate and speculate on what devs say in these Q&As because its one of the only times where people can interact directly with a dev AND we get an insider scoop about not only the current development but also the future plans for the game.

I bother to do it because its a great opportunity essentially. Of course things can change for a bunch of different reasons, but at least I can moderate my expectations based on that information. For example, I now know that characters like Ivy, Nat, Jess, Gillian, Louise (for Ian) and even my ASS QUEEN EMMA are probably gonna get shafted unfortunately . It doesnt mean Im not gonna keep going for them, but now I know what to expect.

Why do you think it was just on a whim?, plenty of time between one estimate and another to think about it and change her mind for whatever reason. IMO her big mistake here was originally setting expectactions for 20 chapters. It's crazy to me to unnecessarily set yourself up for such a long-term commitment, specially when her storytelling doesn't seem to rely on a detailed and fixed roadmap. Just keep it vague.

As to the why cut it down your original estimate from 20 to 16 and now get it back to maybe 16-20 or even more, plenty of possibilities. Obviously only she can really answer, but I can guess:

• Chapter 11 took less time to develop than some of the previous ones, maybe she's more optimistic on being able to release chapters faster from now on. Some change on her way of doing things or she found some tool to expedite things, I don't know. The result would be she being able to release more content during the timeframe she had in her head for commiting to ORS.
• She got new ideas that make her more confident in being able to release something closer in lenght to her original vision than to what she thought when she cut down the estimated number of chapters.
• She plans to release shorter chapters so the content will be less spaced out between releases, so it would be the same content as with more chapters.
• For some reason (financial, a change on her personal life, whatever) she now thinks she would be able to keep her commitment to ORS for a longer time than when she reduced the original estimation.

I'm probably missing plenty of other possible reasons, or maybe it's a mix between more than one. Just keep in mind than doing a game like ORS takes writing, making art and coding, three of the harder human activities to accurately make estimations on. We have seen it in plenty of AAA games and those are projects with millions of dollars budgets and people strictly dedicated to estimate deadlines and make sure to meet them. Some of those games ended up in development hell and were canceled and some of them ended up being masterpieces.

To sum up, I'm not saying that going back to a possible higher number of estimated chapters is necessarily a good thing. As I said some other time we discuss this topic a number of chapters doesn't mean anything by itself, the quality of the content delivered on them does. But personally, I'm reasonably more optimistic with the most recent estimate as it could open up more possibilities for the less popular (among her patrons) paths to be fully realized. Or not, only time will tell, of course.

I agree with you... Theres a lot of possibilities as to why she changed her mind and it can happen at anytime. I also agree that the endgame being put at 20 chapters so early on kind of hurt her

However, what worries me the most isnt that shes changing her mind. Its how in the space of essentially a month since the Q&A she changed her "plans" TWICE like Vee said... 20 to 16 back to 20 . At this point of the games develpment (over 50% done in either of the predictions) I expected her to have her end goals and everything sort of mapped out

Sure, theres a lot of reasons for it that to happen. But for me, it unfortunately screams of doubts and essentially a lack of planning when you change things THAT fast.

 

[Gicoo]

Im not gonna talk for other people but, in my case, I like to elaborate and speculate on what devs say in these Q&As because its one of the only times where people can interact directly with a dev AND we get an insider scoop about not only the current development but also the future plans for the game.

I bother to do it because its a great opportunity essentially. Of course things can change for a bunch of different reasons, but at least I can moderate my expectations based on that information.

I did exacly the same thing the last Q&A. Just to learn yesterday that the information given was refuted in one random comment. So eagerly discussing them and speculating will disappoint and frustrate you once you realize the info doesn't have any reliability.

 

[zoomzoomzoom]

Guys is there another patreon bloom coming or something cuz Eva went from 2000+ patreons to 8000+ patreons

Patreon started counting "free" patrons.

That's because trains are awesome! - 12 year old Blurpee
That's because trains are still awesome! - 30 year old Blurpee

I once rode Amtrak from Spokane to Chicago and it was fucking awesome.

 

[Socrambus]

I agree with you... Theres a lot of possibilities as to why she changed her mind and it can happen at anytime. I also agree that the endgame being put at 20 chapters so early on kind of hurt her

However, what worries me the most isnt that shes changing her mind. Its how in the space of essentially a month since the Q&A she changed her "plans" TWICE like Vee said... 20 to 16 back to 20 . At this point of the games develpment (over 50% done in either of the predictions) I expected her to have her end goals and everything sort of mapped out

Sure, theres a lot of reasons for it that to happen. But for me, it unfortunately screams of doubts and essentially a lack of planning when you change things THAT fast.

I don't see one month as that fast, but I agree there are clearly doubts and the planning is flexible, if we are being generous. I would be more worried if ORS were her first game, but she already proved herself fully delivering GGGB. So I'll just wait and see, and in the meantime I find keeping a sort of positive actitude is just more enjoyable than going full negative. But that just me, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and expectations.

I did exacly the same thing the last Q&A. Just to learn yesterday that the information given was refuted in one random comment. So eagerly discussing them and speculating will disappoint and frustrate you once you realize the info doesn't have any reliability.

As I see it, you have to take it as just one dev expressing her state of mind and thoughts at that time. It's not a corporate event perfectly planned and crafted. It's a bit like if you asked me about where I see my career in two years, my answer can change from one day to another (without lying) because of how I feel that day or circunstances changing. It's up to you to decide what that's worth to you.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Likely the shithole called California. Or Portland.

lol. No. They'd have far more than one bum, there'd be poop all over the streets and Emma's rants would be race-fueled, screaming for the "Elimination of whiteness" in the ORS cast while she called everyone fascists. Far more looting too and the cafe might turn into an autonomous zone.

(Depending on the city in Cali. Portland to a tee though).

 

[| Vee |]

I did exacly the same thing the last Q&A. Just to learn yesterday that the information given was refuted in one random comment. So eagerly discussing them and speculating will disappoint and frustrate you once you realize the info doesn't have any reliability.

Even when in said example DEV herself states the info?

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Just on whim? An estimate can never be this big and raging up and down from one update to another especially if the base story is set in stone(even with changes along the way). First from 20 to 16 than again saying chapters may exceed 20. What is that massive major plot that is carrying this whole novel through this roller-coaster ride. Either the story is not set in stone or EK need time to really think what she wants to do and set things once and for all with changes along the way. THIS IS REALLY A CONCERNING STATEMENT BY EK.

I guess that answers the question why there are so many GGGB and cameo characters are being added into story.

Disappointed but not surprised:

Honestly, the 20+ option probably hinges on how much money Steam brings in. On the off-chance she lucks out and ORS becomes a huge cash-cow, it's a little more difficult to put it out to pasture. Where-as otherwise, she's surely itching to move onto a new game.

 

[cdr00d]

I think I found a bug. I didn't buy the expensive dress the first time. When shopping with Emma, on Friday, July Week 4, If I choose to go to the boutique and buy the dress, the next scene repeats the rent argument between Stan & Louise and it looks like I'm back to Ivy's birthday. If I don't go to the boutique, it continues with Emma at the sex shop.

 

[SerHawkes]

Even when in said example DEV herself states the info?

The thing is with EK, she does things on a whim. She doesn't fully plan shit out as it seems. Much like the reworks of Wade, Stan, the Prologue. Wade was fine before, but all of sudden 'oh here you go, Wade is now jobless and wants to be a gamer pro'... Or 'oh here you go, Stan is gonna get "reworked" to make him a bit better' (Fun fact: Didn't change him one damn bit.) Not to mention the OG prologue was fine to begin with, but all of a sudden 'oh yeah, I redid the prologue, here you go.' And of course there is the three bar scenes inloving Ian and Ivy getting reworked without any explaination (OG-Ian if semi friendly with Axel could hang out with him, talk to Ivy for a bit, gets a kiss the cheek/1st Rework-Same deal, only both flirt/2nd Rework-Forced to hang with Jeremy instead of Axel, no flirty moment with Ivy). Or even the whitewashing of Jeremy's bro from Black to White, which made no sense or even got a real explaintion as to why.

All the while, saying 'oh she has writers block, gets burned out, needs a vacation, makes claim after claim of things that she intends to do or not do, only to do the complete opposite (cuts Eds content, says there won't be any new character with content, gives content to Cameo Jack, Marcel, etc).

 

[Chemish]

RIP OG Billy

 

[| Vee |]

The thing is with EK, she does things on a whim. She doesn't fully plan shit out as it seems. Much like the reworks of Wade, Stan, the Prologue. Wade was fine before, but all of sudden 'oh here you go, Wade is now jobless and wants to be a gamer pro'... Or 'oh here you go, Stan is gonna get "reworked" to make him a bit better' (Fun fact: Didn't change him one damn bit.) Not to mention the OG prologue was fine to begin with, but all of a sudden 'oh yeah, I redid the prologue, here you go.' And of course there is the three bar scenes inloving Ian and Ivy getting reworked without any explaination (OG-Ian if semi friendly with Axel could hang out with him, talk to Ivy for a bit, gets a kiss the cheek/1st Rework-Same deal, only both flirt/2nd Rework-Forced to hang with Jeremy instead of Axel, no flirty moment with Ivy). Or even the whitewashing of Jeremy's bro from Black to White, which made no sense or even got a real explaintion as to why.

All the while, saying 'oh she has writers block, gets burned out, needs a vacation, makes claim after claim of things that she intends to do or not do, only to do the complete opposite (cuts Eds content, says there won't be any new character with content, gives content to Cameo Jack, Marcel, etc).

Don't know why, but I'm sensing a rework in near future too!
Might be a small one.

Loved your signature!

 

[0tt0von]

The thing is with EK, she does things on a whim. She doesn't fully plan shit out as it seems. Much like the reworks of Wade, Stan, the Prologue. Wade was fine before, but all of sudden 'oh here you go, Wade is now jobless and wants to be a gamer pro'... Or 'oh here you go, Stan is gonna get "reworked" to make him a bit better' (Fun fact: Didn't change him one damn bit.) Not to mention the OG prologue was fine to begin with, but all of a sudden 'oh yeah, I redid the prologue, here you go.' And of course there is the three bar scenes inloving Ian and Ivy getting reworked without any explaination (OG-Ian if semi friendly with Axel could hang out with him, talk to Ivy for a bit, gets a kiss the cheek/1st Rework-Same deal, only both flirt/2nd Rework-Forced to hang with Jeremy instead of Axel, no flirty moment with Ivy). Or even the whitewashing of Jeremy's bro from Black to White, which made no sense or even got a real explaintion as to why.

All the while, saying 'oh she has writers block, gets burned out, needs a vacation, makes claim after claim of things that she intends to do or not do, only to do the complete opposite (cuts Eds content, says there won't be any new character with content, gives content to Cameo Jack, Marcel, etc).

A lot of whinging for what is quite obviously a work in progress you might not like some or all of the changes made, but that changes will be made should be understood. Nor are you entitled to more of an explanation than the creator likes it better this way.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I think I found a bug. I didn't buy the expensive dress the first time. When shopping with Emma, on Friday, July Week 4, If I choose to go to the boutique and buy the dress, the next scene repeats the rent argument between Stan & Louise and it looks like I'm back to Ivy's birthday. If I don't go to the boutique, it continues with Emma at the sex shop.

Just in case, are you sure the save you're loading from to get to that point is a save from a final build? I sometimes have some weird jumps like that when accidentally loading from an alpha or beta save. I'm sure it's still a bug if the save is confirmed from a final build.

 

[SerHawkes]

A lot of whinging for what is quite obviously a work in progress you might not like some or all of the changes made, but that changes will be made should be understood. Nor are you entitled to more of an explanation than the creator likes it better this way.

Right, because not listening to feedback does so well for developers, translating to them doing the same things over and over, not developing their style or story or improving on things, rinse repeat cycle of things they do, expecting everyone to be in love with what they do... OH WAIT. Thats not the fucking case. There are issues with EK's writing, inconsistences with characters, questionable decision makings on her part and characters, yet NO one bats an eye about it. They just take it up the ass like good little simps, suck at the 'praise me EK, I defended you so good' tit, and get rewarded for it. Does she even bother to fix the inconsistencies? No, of course not.

Sure, EK is the dev, and she can do what ever she wants to do. It's her project and all. HOWEVER, sometimes actually listening to feedback and actually asking the question of say 'Hey, I'm kinda considering making a change to such and such and here my purposed idea. Thoughts?' not only can get you more fan interaction, but can help with creativity with fans maybe even adding to that idea. Instead, we get no actual idea what happens until it's implemented and everyone either goes yeah I like or why bother in the first place. In this case, EK's Reworks are 0-6(7) for why bother. Wade needing rework made no sense, Stan's wasn't even a rework at all, Billy as well, etc. etc.

So beg pardon if myself and others have isues with the work in progress as is and foresee it going downhill mainly because we are doubting EK based on prior and 'current' claims she has made.

 

[SerHawkes]

Don't know why, but I'm sensing a rework in near future too!
Might be a small one.

Loved your signature!

Very likely... Probably gonna be Louise getting reworked... Or Perry... Or some pointless rework of a character like Geymour just to have them get more attention and make them more hateable or some shit.

Thanks bro. C.Mork finished it today. Bang up job he did.

 

[GabWayne]

Hey,
I played the game for the first time this year, right before chapter 11 release, and I really really enjoyed. From what I read here there seems to be some reworks, I don't know how things were before and I didn't play GGGB but in my case I think the game is really good and it deserves to be a top game here.

I'm a little anxious for the next update so I looked a little in patreon and it seems that in
2020 - 6 chapters were delivered
2021 - 3 chapters
2022 - 1 chapter
2023 - 1 chapter also

So my question is: What happened? I just read the first few posts in the beginning of each year and wanted to know if guys can tell me why only 2 chapters were release since 2021. Thanks

 

[SerHawkes]

Hey,
I played the game for the first time this year, right before chapter 11 release, and I really really enjoyed. From what I read here there seems to be some reworks, I don't know how things were before and I didn't play GGGB but in my case I think the game is really good and it deserves to be a top game here.

I'm a little anxious for the next update so I looked a little in patreon and it seems that in
2020 - 6 chapters were delivered
2021 - 3 chapters
2022 - 1 chapter
2023 - 1 chapter also

So my question is: What happened? I just read the first few posts in the beginning of each year and wanted to know if guys can tell me why only 2 chapters were release since 2021. Thanks

Pointless reworks and the story getting bigger and bigger is what happened. Pretty much sums it up.

Naturally it makes sense that given the story, things would get bigger and bigger in build time. However, not the case. Between the Imfamous 'Stan Update', writers block/burning out/real life stuff (which is understandable), EK bit off way more than she could chew with this one to put it mildly.

 

[GokutheG]

Hey,
I played the game for the first time this year, right before chapter 11 release, and I really really enjoyed. From what I read here there seems to be some reworks, I don't know how things were before and I didn't play GGGB but in my case I think the game is really good and it deserves to be a top game here.

I'm a little anxious for the next update so I looked a little in patreon and it seems that in
2020 - 6 chapters were delivered
2021 - 3 chapters
2022 - 1 chapter
2023 - 1 chapter also

So my question is: What happened? I just read the first few posts in the beginning of each year and wanted to know if guys can tell me why only 2 chapters were release since 2021. Thanks

The number of branches and variables to keep track of increases so it can become difficult and time consuming to get right.