The idea that Seymour might be actually completely innocent and nice older guy kind of doesn't quite align with how Lena is on more than one occasion rewarded Smarts points if she opts to avoid getting closely involved with him. I mean, if Lena having a relationship with him is supposed to be perfectly normal romance route, why is it a smart thing for Lena to avoid it?
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Being able to quote Nietzsche makes you evil? Oh my God, now I know I am evil!
Joking aside, while Nitzsche has some big blunders in his philosophy, there are parts where he nailed it, no matter what the Naysayers (many who never read anything written by him) blabb.But philosophy aside, most of what you describe here happens if you antagonise Seymour from the get go, it simply does not happen if Lena and Seymour have a good relationship. In addition, if Lena is close with Seymour and Emma, Lena can sponsor a talk between Seymour and Emma (in some future update).
As for the morally upstanding people comparison, it might be cynical, but I would take a competent as... mayor, who get´s at least some things done over the morally upstanding, but incompetent mayor Perry´s Dad is, whose failure hurts the whole city, any day.
Seymour is morally really bad only on the antagonise him from the start paths. His current portrayal is consistent with the Seymour on the Lena and Seymour have a good relationship paths.
You are argueing with meta knowledge here, since we can see Seymour (or other characters) at their worst if we play enough paths. But that is futile here since the various paths represent different universes. On the paths were Lena and Seymour have a good relationship, Seymour is not a blackmailer. Unless it was reworked during an update, if Lena and Seymour are close, he proposes his exclusive contract before(!) doing any blacklisting.
Besides, I never said Seymour is fully good or so, as your argumentation assumes. I argue that the Seymour on the paths where Lena and him have a good relationship is not an evil bastard. He is still im- or amoral in his choices, but he has growth potential and is nicer than many think. As I said, play some path variants where you can learn more about him.
As I wrote above, I do not say Seymour is a pidgeon feeding do-gooder. He is a shrewd business man, who is also im- or amoral with many of his choices. He is not really good, he resides in a morally grey area. Seymour as depicted in the game and the new update in special has the potential to get "better" (e.g. Lena can sponsor talks between him and emma, he is a lot more inclined to do the right thing if Lena and he have a good relationship and Lena nudges him to) Unlike Artur, Seymour has not gone beyond the moral event horizon so far and still has potential to become a better person, esp. if people close to him give hints or initiate stuff.
Nevertheless Seymour is, as said, mostly im- or amoral in his choices. Going by his favourtie philosopher I would say amoral. and this is a part of him for good. Even if Lena and friends can nudge Seymour to become a better person, part of him will stay amoral. And a Lena in a close relationship with him will undoubtedly be influenced by this towards a morally more grey stance. The couple smart points Lena can get is for seeing this and if she wants to stay a "pure" do-gooder.
- Feb 18, 2018
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Read the entire sentence. Quoting Nietzsche one its own isn't evil, interpreting his work in a certain way is. Just how Nazis interpreted the ubermensch as the ideal german man who had the justification to stand above everyone else.
Seymour doesn't blackmail Lena when she likes him, but he does if she refuses him.
You rhetoric that Seymour is technically good if Lena and Ian don't oppose him because they themselves chose to be opportunistic, career-and money driven in specific playthroughs, doesn't hold up. Its just an absence of evil in Lenas and Ians limited perspective.
He is a flat out criminal and just too rich and clever to get caught.
Sure, Seymour can do good things, like paying for Lena's mother hospital. His overall intent is to make others indebted to himto worship him.
There is no indication that Seymour would change and become good or redeemed. This was initially suggested with Axel, but droped to make him consistent with his character, his role and progression throughout the story as the clear antagonist. The same was with Seymour until he uncharacteristically and narratively inconsistenly mellowed down in the latest update.
If you read the entire part, you see that I was joking, even added the smileys
As I wrote in an earlier post, the paths in the game are differents universes. You cannot argue with this, since if the Multiverse theory holds water somewhere out there are universes where everybody has both great and evil versions of oneself hopping around. So on the paths where Lena and Seymour are close, he is a nicer guy than in others. Remark that I do not say good.
As I mentioned before, I never said that Seymour is good. I argue that he is NOT the evil bastard you and some others like to see him, but an amoral businessman/grey hat, who has the potential to personal growth, if he has the right persons around him. (e.g. Lena can bring Seymour and Emma together for talks and I estimate that for Ian a similar option arises in a future update)
The multiverse in ORS is used sparingly to explain different preferred background for characters. Namely Lena's background and Jess' good and bad variants.If you read the entire part, you see that I was joking, even added the smileys
As I wrote in an earlier post, the paths in the game are differents universes. You cannot argue with this, since if the Multiverse theory holds water somewhere out there are universes where everybody has both great and evil versions of oneself hopping around. So on the paths where Lena and Seymour are close, he is a nicer guy than in others. Remark that I do not say good.
The actual events of the story follow cause and effect and a lot of them are universal, ie Perry setting up a beach event in all universes leading to Ian and Lena going there.
Similarly Lena losing all her jobs is also a universal event, a canon event if you will. The timing of this event and the unlikelihood of her losing all opportunities in one day are obviously because Seymour blacklists her. No other explanation is satisfactory and this is even confirmed with the contract meeting.
To claim otherwise you need to provide evidence that there is an intended good guy alternate timeline version of Seymour. And saying that other characters have variants isn't evidence, unlike the other side that can point to evidence showing Seymour clearly is intended to be a bad person. Based on him being blackmailer in all routes where Lena doesn't kiss his ass, him being referred to as evil in the files, and EK calling him the big bad on a patreon post.
What evidence do you bring to the table, hm? You are weighting with two scales, since ALL characters have different versions of themselves hopping around in the game. Nice and not so nice ones. The number is unimportant as long as there is variance. Just as an example, if Lena and Seymour are on really good terms, he might not be a big do-gooder, but Seymour is clearly a nicer person here, e.g. helping with the high health costs and you see it in the new update that it was not done with hidden thoughts.
It is also very evident by your word choice that you have a set opinion, why should I bother? But as a quick answer, there are route variants where Seymour is a rather nice guy and Lena does not "kiss his ass", quite the contrary as we can see in the update! The "evil" in the files tags a pic "evil grin". Oh my goodness, everybody can do an evil grin. And EK calling him the big bad is clearly meant for the paths where you antagonise him early on and join the rabble without cause so you can feel morally superior when you shave in the morning.
The paths where Lena, Seymour, Ian and Co are on good terms and the new update underpins this, can also lead to good results but morally far more grey than anything else.
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- Jun 15, 2022
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Famous rapper Sean Combs, known by nickname P. Diddy, spoke out in support of Seymour Ward.
"A wonderful man, investor, businessman and philanthropist. I don't know why people spread lies and rumors about him, they just want to look morally superior.
We have a great relationship and he was often my guest at my parties, and his trips to Little Saint James island were purely for business. He is a law-abiding citizen, and 1000 bottles of baby oil were simply a gift to show our long friendship," - Diddy said.
"A wonderful man, investor, businessman and philanthropist. I don't know why people spread lies and rumors about him, they just want to look morally superior.
We have a great relationship and he was often my guest at my parties, and his trips to Little Saint James island were purely for business. He is a law-abiding citizen, and 1000 bottles of baby oil were simply a gift to show our long friendship," - Diddy said.
The evidence is that Seymour blacklists Lena in ALL playthroughs. The evidence is also authors intent:
Saying there are variants of other character therefore it is evidence that he has a good counter part present in the game does not logically follow. You have to prove that a good variant is present as an option. Evidence is needed to support the claim, maybe a variable in the files like holly_slut or jess_bad labelled seymour_good or something. As it stands Seymour blacklists Lena in every path and if the sly tactics don't work he resorts to blackmail therefore no amount nice pleasantries in Rome will make him some misunderstood nice guy. He is a manipulator through and through with no evidence of a good variant in the game. Just because someone acts nice around some they manipulated does not change the fact that they manipulated them, in this case through blacklisting and finacial pressure.
Seymour is evil. The blackmail was the last straw for Seymour. He blacklisted Lena in all her jobs, from modeling, restaurant server, and sex work online so that Lena would be financially isolated and would be forced to work for him. If Lena still refused to work with Seymour, that is when the blackmail happens where Seymour reveals it was him who blacklisted Lena. If you consider those actions as "amoral" then I would suggest reflecting your moral system.
- Dec 24, 2021
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Stan is done with lena and louise's shit and bashes their brains in with a bat that also happens to named lucille
- Nov 13, 2022
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Couldn't agree more.
Yes, the game allows Lena to have a smart, business-like relationship with Seymour, kudos to eva for pulling that off, but the fact that he actively sabotages her career, no matter how good their relationship is proves that he is an evil, selfish man who just has to get what he wants, no matter whose life he destroys.
Having said all that, it is also quite interesting to see how far Lena can leverage his offer and move up in the world without being "trapped" by him. Like the contract scene where, if you're smart enough, you can add that extra clause.
In that regard, I think Seymour's route is one of the more engaging ones for a "Neutral" Lena. In a very "can you con the con-man" way.
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- Aug 1, 2022
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I saw someone comparing Axel with Seymour like fuck off with that bullshit
Axel is actually a good villain,look how much despair he creates to Cindy fanboys with his actions.
Also he knows how Lena likes it,not like that simp Seymour who needs toys like a bitch.
Axel is actually a good villain,look how much despair he creates to Cindy fanboys with his actions.
Also he knows how Lena likes it,not like that simp Seymour who needs toys like a bitch.
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- Feb 22, 2020
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Okay I'll say my two piece about Seymour. Is Seymour evil? Well from what I've seen, no. Still doesn't stop him from being the main antagonist for the Game though. Based on his actions, philosophy and values, he fits the alignment of a chaotic neutral.
Which is to say that he values freedom and individuality above all else. Even if his freedom deprives others of their own and oppresses them. He believes he should be above the law and everyone should have his same perspective on things. Now I would still argue that he is indeed a bad person even if he may not perceive himself to be one. He is very selfish in his way of doing things and this includes blacklisting Lena in order to entice her to enter a contract with him and ultimately be with him. When he tells Ian about why he blacklisted Lena and he says he merely did it to "motivate" her, I don't believe he was lying. He genuinely did not see what he did as a bad thing.
Now I believe Turret may have some confusion with the whole universal continuity thing. Like fatpussy123 and Gicoo have said, a lot of things are constant in every ORS universe and that includes Seymour blackballing Lena. Just because Ian and Lena are not privy to his foul play does not suddenly change Seymour's character. Yes he comes of as nicer but this just means Lena and Ian are ignorant about who he really is. But I don't agree with using certain tags in the game to say a character is a certain way. Lena and Ian also have "evil" tags for their expressions. Some examples are when Lena doms Louise for the first time and Ian doms Minerva in the hotel. An evil tag is used for their expressions. Does this then mean Lena and Ian are evil? I think not.
Axel though is a different story. But that is another discussion for another time.
Which is to say that he values freedom and individuality above all else. Even if his freedom deprives others of their own and oppresses them. He believes he should be above the law and everyone should have his same perspective on things. Now I would still argue that he is indeed a bad person even if he may not perceive himself to be one. He is very selfish in his way of doing things and this includes blacklisting Lena in order to entice her to enter a contract with him and ultimately be with him. When he tells Ian about why he blacklisted Lena and he says he merely did it to "motivate" her, I don't believe he was lying. He genuinely did not see what he did as a bad thing.
Now I believe Turret may have some confusion with the whole universal continuity thing. Like fatpussy123 and Gicoo have said, a lot of things are constant in every ORS universe and that includes Seymour blackballing Lena. Just because Ian and Lena are not privy to his foul play does not suddenly change Seymour's character. Yes he comes of as nicer but this just means Lena and Ian are ignorant about who he really is. But I don't agree with using certain tags in the game to say a character is a certain way. Lena and Ian also have "evil" tags for their expressions. Some examples are when Lena doms Louise for the first time and Ian doms Minerva in the hotel. An evil tag is used for their expressions. Does this then mean Lena and Ian are evil? I think not.
Axel though is a different story. But that is another discussion for another time.
- May 28, 2019
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Make sure Ian has good relationship with Lena, and Lena has good relationship with Louise. You can have Ian/Lena/Louise threesome.
You can also have Ian/Lena/Holly threesome and actual relationship, but it's a bit complicated to get so look up a guide for that.
Can a Seymour route enjoyer tell me what implications it has regarding Holly/Allison please? I heard talks of that, but I hate this route too much to pay serious attention to it. Thanks for any info!
- Oct 29, 2017
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What in the utter fuck did I step into here? A discussion on Geymour and his bland as fuck villain ways, that EK tries her ever so hardest to prop up as the best "written" character and whatever amalgamation of bullshit???
We have dismissed this claim.
We have dismissed this claim.
This is true. We Cindy fans stay up at night at the thought of all the dreadful things Axel is getting up to with Cindy on that boat.
Nah, the true Cindy fans have full trust and belief in our queen. So I sleep soundly at night knowing she did not do anything wrong.This is true. We Cindy fans stay up at night at the thought of all the dreadful things Axel is getting up to with Cindy on that boat.
- Feb 18, 2018
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