VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[monk_56]

I think that in ORS the hardcore stuff can be just the shortcut for the financial success. But i'm confident that both Ian and Lena can have success in the end keeping their ideals of art. Seymour can block every job for Lena if she doesn'r accept be his sex toy, she can't make money like Ivy if she doesn't make the same content Ivy make in stalkfap and in the future with Billy, but she still have in the end of chapter 9 a new show with Emma and maybe, i hope, this next show can be the turning point for her music career.

God I sure hope so. The reduction of Lena to a sex object being her only path to success would leave a sour taste in my mouth.

I think it'll turn around soon- Eva needed to make us feel the squeeze in this last chapter so the people who like corruption kink and fin-dom kink can get off on the arcs being "compelling."

The music arc and the political "stick it to the man" stuff with Emma is really in a primordial state here; hopefully it ends up being a robust arc with a bunch of more romance / friendship / artisic nudes non-corruption oriented kinks in it

Sure women can find pornography or e-girl lifestyles empowering and some are very comfortable with the roles they've chosen for themselves and that is great for them - but for me its just generally feels bleak and dis-empowering.

I'm not going to judge others and their choices ect. But, I wouldn't have any respect for myself if I did that for a living; and since I self-insert when I play Lena; it'd be cool if I had more options that felt empowering.

 

[PervySageKem]

Yes but those same people will choose to make Ian sleep with his friends girlfriend, fuck his married boss, as well as fuck every other woman that crosses his path. There's a word for those people, I think it starts with an H

Not everyone does that, though. That's why we ask for more wholesome content, we try to do only Ian x Lena and have no content.

 

[DavDR]

Not everyone does that, though. That's why we ask for more wholesome content, we try to do only Ian x Lena and have no content.

Yeah, more wholesome. Sorry Rev. Falwell I didn't recognize your avatar. But what are you doing here, in the discussion thread of a porn site?

 

[PervySageKem]

Yeah, more wholesome. Sorry Rev. Falwell I didn't recognize your avatar. But what are you doing here, in the discussion thread of a porn site?

Dude, I like playing these games to live out some romances. I do have the right to enjoy whatever legal porn I want, and I'm not forbidden from commenting in this thread what I'd like to watch.

Ian + Lena + Cindy is the one true throuple, don't @ me.

 

[PervySageKem]

Yeah, more wholesome. Sorry Rev. Falwell I didn't recognize your avatar. But what are you doing here, in the discussion thread of a porn site?

Btw, why are you being such and ass with me?

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Can you geniunely say a Lena that would fall in love with Ian could fuck Robert, Mike, or Louise? She would need to be a completely different person from one scene to another.

Robert is a complete idiot (I know the Robert fan boys are coming after me…) and Lena is completely out of his league, so can’t image why Lana should have sex with him, even if she would be horny af.

I’m not a fan of Robert, and I think he’s had too many scenes with Lena. But I don’t have any issues with the fact that she ends up sleeping with him — I find that quite believable.

It’s several months since things ended with Axel, and she’s not been with anyone since. Now she’s finally starting to move on, and as Ivy not so subtly points out to her, that often involves having sex again.

At the moment Robert tries his luck, it’s a decent option for her. Yes, she’s out of his league, and she could probably have rejected him and found someone better. But the logic of her choice seems obvious: She can skip the job of finding someone else — which can be awkward if you haven’t done it in ages — and it doesn’t feel like a big deal because she’s in no way romantically interested in him. It’s an unexpected, but easy opportunity to get back into it with minimal hazzle. Also he’s decent looking, so there’s no reason to think the sex would be particularly bad.

She can decide that the pluses outweighs the minuses, or the opposite. Both choices seem reasonable to me.

With Ian it’s different: They immediately hit it off because of their mutual interest in literature and music. Even if they don’t become romantically involved later, Lena finds him interesting in a way Robert isn’t. So it’s a bigger step for her to have sex with him. They play different roles in her life.

 

[lipe2410]

maybe we with Ian if we choose to train jiu-jitsu

I'm looking for that writer friend of Holly who invited Ian to work with him in his own magazine. I'm pretty sure that my Ian not only will lose the job with Seymour because Lena reject him, but also will lose the book tournament because he reject Minerva and she will be one of the judges. So, i rely my hopes in Ian working with that writer. And, if my memorie is correct, in this magazine they will publish new books as novels, chapter by chapter. I'll love and think quite poetic and meta if Ian, in game, publish his book like a novel in chapters the same way Eva is releasing the game in chapters

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I'm looking for that writer friend of Holly who invited Ian to work with him in his own magazine. I'm pretty sure that my Ian not only will lose the job with Seymour because Lena reject him, but also will lose the book tournament because he reject Minerva and she will be one of the judges. So, i rely my hopes in Ian working with that writer. And, if my memorie is correct, in this magazine they will publish new books as novels, chapter by chapter. I'll love and think quite poetic and meta if Ian, in game, publish his book like a novel in chapters the same way Eva is releasing the game in chapters

It would be hilarious if Eva added some of the same issues she’s had herself in Ian’s story. Ian saying that he’ll "kick himself in the teeth" if he’s not finished with the next chapter for the upcoming issue, and then discovering a forum where people are furious with him because he didn’t make it and they claim it was a promise.

 

[lipe2410]

It would be hilarious if Eva added some of the same issues she’s had herself in Ian’s story. Ian saying that he’ll "kick himself in the teeth" if he’s not finished with the next chapter for the upcoming issue, and then discovering a forum where people are furious with him because he didn’t make it and they claim it was a promise.

LOL man! This definitly will be awesome

 

[JohnnySolo]

I’m not a fan of Robert, and I think he’s had too many scenes with Lena. But I don’t have any issues with the fact that she ends up sleeping with him — I find that quite believable.

It’s several months since things ended with Axel, and she’s not been with anyone since. Now she’s finally starting to move on, and as Ivy not so subtly points out to her, that often involves having sex again.

You have here a fair point and I can flow your argument. On the other side it always depends on how you see Lena and what you as player think she desires. I don’t think that Lena is really so in need for a sexual adventure, especially in this early stage. It’s Ivy which pushes Lena in this direction, and for me it’s not so obvious that Lena is really “looking” for some quick sex.

Also, she is very careful with her approached towards Ian. Clearly this are two different stories and she don’t know Ian and this approached make sense. But on the other side fucking with a working colleague is also something that could lead to problems, especially if you have already a lot of issues.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

From what I've seen, cheating impacted Ian and Lena differently. It seems like it hurt his self-esteem (problems to keep erection up during his first time), like he wasn't good enough or chad enough to keep Gillian because he doesn't go into rage thinking about her, he becomes melancholic, as if he wishes they were still together. That's why I believe it makes sense that Ian would fall for Cindy and seeing that Wade isn't the right boyfriend for her, he might take his chance (to both restore his masculinity and save Wade and Cindy from having a miserable life together). The actual cheating route where he goes behind Wade's back but doesn't tell Cindy to break up with him is out of character a bit, too.

I think it can be done believably in Ian's character. Despite popular belief, cheating is not the same. Women who are cheated on, have a whole support system, family and friends telling them "how much of a bastard the guy is", "how big of a price she is" etc. etc. Men on the other hand, are ridiculed and belittled, becoming the blunt of the joke among their friends, and if they get depressed are then told to man-up and all that. This is why crimes of passion are almost always perpetrated by men. Women who are cheated on are hurting the same way men are, but you won't look at a girl as a looser or less of a woman because she was cheated on. One is a victim the other is a laughing stock.

So... I could see Ian turn "cold" after the whole Gillian experience, which could psychologically lead him into becoming a "cheater" himself. We see and hear that men who has survived abuse are more likely to become abusers themselves, So I can see how Ian could go full circle, but instead of being the victim again, he becomes a womanizer to protect himself from being emotionally sacrred again. It might not be in line with his character at the start, but once those oppertunities becomes a reality he can easily be played that way.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

You have here a fair point and I can flow your argument. On the other side it always depends on how you see Lena and what you as player think she desires. I don’t think that Lena is really so in need for a sexual adventure, especially in this early stage. It’s Ivy which pushes Lena in this direction, and for me it’s not so obvious that Lena is really “looking” for some quick sex.

Also, she is very careful with her approached towards Ian. Clearly this are two different stories and she don’t know Ian and this approached make sense. But on the other side fucking with a working colleague is also something that could lead to problems, especially if you have already a lot of issues.

I agree, she’s not really looking for a quick hookup at that point, and she hasn’t decided yet if she agrees with Ivy that she needs it… But then a possibility suddenly emerges, and she’s got to make a quick decision: Reject him because she’s not ready for it yet, and/or because he’s a bit creepy — or just go with the flow and have a decent fuck and take another step in moving on from Axel. But it’s true that their working relationship complicates it — and as far as I can remember Lena isn’t really considering that part, which she definitely could have.

 

[Tallyhoe]

I got a feeling Ivy was in it with Axel with some kind of deal to lure Lena to his studio and to show up late so he could have alone time with Lena. I felt it was a bs excuse that she came up with being late.

 

[Vernalcash]

I got a feeling Ivy was in it with Axel with some kind of deal to lure Lena to his studio and to show up late so he could have alone time with Lena. I felt it was a bs excuse that she came up with being late.

Yeah I think so too, I feel like she's selling Lena to her psycho ex in exchange for a good word with the wildcats.

 

[Quintillian]

Just learned there’s a rework going on. Does anyone know what’s the nature of this rework besides what was published on patron?

 

[Homemade]

Oh, look, Everyone's favorite Character Robert is going somewhere...

Spoiler

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[ename144]

It’s difficult to say what is wrong with Lena’s alternate routes. I personally like Lena’s character and I can also connect to her, even if I am a male. She is a hard-working young girl and cares for her family even if she has a complicated relationship with her mother. She has clear moral believes and maybe she is a bit too much under a bad influence of her friend (Ivy).

With this in mind a lot of Lena’s alternate content doesn’t fit for me. I like the Lena / Holly story and also like the Lena/Louise content, but the rest is just a loss of time. And it’s not because I think Lena should only have sex with Ian, it’s because I really dislike the character of Robert, Mike, Jeremy and Axel. Robert is a complete idiot (I know the Robert fan boys are coming after me…) and Lena is completely out of his league, so can’t image why Lana should have sex with him, even if she would be horny af. For Mike / Jeremy Lena is just another trophy. And Axel is just Axel, Mr. Perfect Asshole.

Also, the story with Seymour leads to pretty predictable ending. And maybe most disappoint thing is, that all these stories lead to Lena being on the weaker end. Okay, I don’t know how Eva Kiss is planning the ending of the game, but I don’t see anything of intriguing especially compared to Ian’s possibilities. And this is the big difference, on Ian’s side all options are somehow interesting, some are better (Lena, Holly, Alison, Cherry) some are more conflicted (Emma (fucking the girl your best friend is in love with), Cindy).

Personally, I think the problem with Lena's content boils down to the fact that, unless you're just in it for the lewd corruption, it's not much fun.

Lena's life is legitimately miserable: she had to drop out of school, she's nearly broke, her friends are often problematic at best, she has no career prospects and now she's the target of a sexual predator with unlimited resources. And none of this is played for laughs or confined to the background. It's bulk of her content, relentlessly portrayed in all the gory details. Ian is pretty much the only exception to this (other than Holly who is still a work in progress at this point). Even Louise feel more like a drain on her sanity than a source of comfort, and the options fall off precipitously from there.

The big advantage GGGB had over ORS is that it didn't take itself nearly as seriously. You could play the story straight if you wanted (staying faithful to Eric, bringing out the wounded soul in Jack, that sort of thing), but if you wanted to throw back and really go wild it was sufficiently over the top that it didn't really register as the same character doing both things. With Lena, we spend so much time establishing her mindset, her backstory, her stats, even how she's seen by Ian, that it's hard to really fit both extremes of the character into the same game.

Ian does have some of the same problems, but it's mitigated by his less precarious situation and by the way his friends (including romantic options like Allison and Holly) seem capable of making his life better rather than adding as much angst as the they remove. I respect the craftsmanship of ORS, but there aren't a lot of scenes I replay just to enjoy them again.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Personally, I think the problem with Lena's content boils down to the fact that, unless you're just in it for the lewd corruption, it's not much fun.

Lena's life is legitimately miserable: she had to drop out of school, she's nearly broke, her friends are often problematic at best, she has no career prospects and now she's the target of a sexual predator with unlimited resources. And none of this is played for laughs or confined to the background. It's bulk of her content, relentlessly portrayed in all the gory details. Ian is pretty much the only exception to this (other than Holly who is still a work in progress at this point). Even Louise feel more like a drain on her sanity than a source of comfort, and the options fall off precipitously from there.

The big advantage GGGB had over ORS is that it didn't take itself nearly as seriously. You could play the story straight if you wanted (staying faithful to Eric, bringing out the wounded soul in Jack, that sort of thing), but if you wanted to throw back and really go wild it was sufficiently over the top that it didn't really register as the same character doing both things. With Lena, we spend so much time establishing her mindset, her backstory, her stats, even how she's seen by Ian, that it's hard to really fit both extremes of the character into the same game.

Ian does have some of the same problems, but it's mitigated by his less precarious situation and by the way his friends (including romantic options like Allison and Holly) seem capable of making his life better rather than adding as much angst as the they remove. I respect the craftsmanship of ORS, but there aren't a lot of scenes I replay just to enjoy them again.

Pretty much straight to the point, couldn’t describe it better.

Let’s hope that at least from the “good” content we get something out of these little seeds (musician career & political activist) which have been planted in chapter 9.

I would also like that Lena could do some classical modeling jobs, maybe take some shoots for an advertising campaign. Currently it seems everybody how wants to take photoshoots with Lena is a pervert, okay Danny technically not but he is under the control of Seymour.

Maybe we get something out of the Stan re-work, even if I’m not very optimistic, but at least we should give it a try. Stan could be a solution for a bit more vanilla/classical modeling and they can help each other as friends (no f..k benefits).

 

[Echbert]

Lena as a protagonist = unrelatable

I have a super hard time relating to Lena as a protagonist.
I have never been nor never will be a super-hot chick in a hyperbolically exaggerated sexually and financially oppressive world. Nor will I ever be so obsessed with big-dick, some Adonis looking asshole who betrayed me, or money that I have a hard time keeping my principles.

Nor would I have any interest in being a nude model or have any of the attitudes about nude modeling that Lena has.

Nor would I treat Louise like garbage.

Sure she is a protagonist and the game tries to put me "in her shoes," but goddamn do these shoes not fit.

Ian as a protagonist = relatable

Ian on the other hand - while I find it partially difficult to relate to his physical problems because he is so small- I can relate to his struggle to gain his ideal body via exercise and struggle as a young professional trying to pursue his dream of using his mind to survive instead of working some shit job for easy cash.

Also- him being a dude makes him more relatable to me in a myriad of ways baseline.

That's more of a you thing. It has nothing to do with the narrative putting us into the shoes of Ian over Lena. You just personally have more in common with Ian than Lena and therfore relate to him more.

The game literally starts with Ian's POV and not with Lena's POV. Additionally, most players of these games are male, which further makes us consider him the "Main Protoganist", and Lena the second protagonist.

It would be disingenuous to say the opposite. We "instrumentalize" Lena, going for the routes we go with her for selfish reasons (even if they are bad for Lena). At the same time, we naturally tend to make the best choices for Ian and try to make Lena be the best gf possible for him.

None of this is bad, it's actually good. But it does mean that the things that worked for GGGB may not work for ORS.



In GGGB you were always on Ashley's shoes and only Ashley's shoes. The perspective is exclusively hers. You naturally get immersed and you are free to make choices

I'll give a more concrete example:

I didn't give a fuck about Ashley's boyfriend, I cheated on him, fucked his Dad, fucked whoever I wanted with no remorse. On GGGB, I just wanted to have fun through Ashley's POV.

While playing ORS, while playing has Lena, I avoided all content that didn't involve Ian. Because I "wasn't Lena". I was Ian, just controlling what Lena was doing and I wanted her all for myself.

It's not that hard to understand, tbh. But not everyone gets immersed in stories, it's pretty rare.

Eva starting with one POV over the other doesn't show that person is the MC, she can't start with both, she had to choose one or the other, and went with whoever was best to start her story with(in this case i think Ian was also chosen because he helps establish how different this game is than GGGB better).

Dudes relating to Ian more, considering him the MC, and instrumentalizing Lena does not mean that the narrative was designed that way, that's a choice they made, the narrative has made no indication that our goal is to see Lena as a Waifu, instead it's given them both independant stories with their own personal goals, tied togethor by a "Red string of fate". imo it's disengenuous to say Ian or Lena is more of the MC than the other, the narrative is clearly structured for us to see them as deutorologist, were suppose to relate to them both, and see them as equally important to the overall narrative(it's like RE2, both Leon and Claire are the MCs, even if most of the fandom chose Leon first). I would say so far it's been pretty effective as enough ppl were complaining about Lena having so little "good" LI options that Eva opted to rewrite Stan(I know she rewrote Robert as well though i don't know if that was for the same reason).

 

[BloodyMares]

Another detail about Lena's change that I forgot to mention was the fact that she can become more comfortable merging her day job, and her side-hustle as a model. The fact that Lena can so excitedly suggest that she is willing to pose nude at the cafe to save it shows how she's changed, when in the first chapters she felt very stressed whenever Van Dykes learned that she was posing nude, and how casually Ed exploited that fact to disregard her privacy.