VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[Deleted member 3064965]

The latest progress update wasn't too optimistic either because Eva Kiss said she has just started to write the next chapter, and it's mentally taxing for her.

I didn't read that as a pesimistic sign; rather as a statement that it's just the way this part of the process is. I find that relatable myself, at least: When you're thinking out ideas in your own head and then later plotting out the basics of the story, it feels energizing and it's easy to be creative; but when you have to sit down and actually write the whole thing, it's most often hard work and quite draining (especially with the complexity of a story like this). Still, it's just a necessary job you have to work through to get the reward of a finished product.

That's just my interpretation, though, and I guess yours might just as well be right—or somewhere in between. But generally I think the status updates have been more optimistic the last few months, and she's also posting more regularly on Patreon, which I'd say is a good sign.

Guys, what's the most evil/douche desicions you can make for both Ian and Lena in your opinion? If it's possible elaborate this choises.

Out of all the douchy moves I think the worst is for Ian to lie to Cherry and Lena to keep seeing both of them. It's actually possible to have sex with Cherry in Chapter 9 and still enter a relationship with Lena the day after, it's just a bit intricate to reach it. That involves Cherry explicitly asking if Ian and Lena are serious (during their meeting at the bar), Ian answering that Lena's just a friend, and Cherry deciding to go home with him as a result of that. Before that she's made it clear that she don't want to come between him and Lena after what happened between them in the past.

I can't remember exactly what Ian answers when Lena asks him about his relationship to Cherry, but the gist of it is that he wasn't aware that they knew each other and that it was just a casual hookup. I don't think he explicitly states that he won't meet her again, but at least it seems like common sense after the conversation they've just had.

So at the end of Chapter 9 you can have a Ian who's still involved with Cherry, while she thinks Lena is just a friend to him; though he's really in a relationship with Lena, who herself believes Ian and Cherry just hooked up as a one time thing. That's just extremely manipulative and a completely horrible thing to do, considering their history.

Spoiler: How to reach it

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[Prince of Depression]

I didn't read that as a pesimistic sign; rather as a statement that it's just the way this part of the process is. I find that relatable myself, at least: When you're thinking out ideas in your own head and then later plotting out the basics of the story, it feels energizing and it's easy to be creative; but when you have to sit down and actually write the whole thing, it's most often hard work and quite draining (especially with the complexity of a story like this). Still, it's just a necessary job you have to work through to get the reward of a finished product.

That's just my interpretation, though, and I guess yours might just as well be right—or somewhere in between. But generally I think the status updates have been more optimistic the last few months, and she's also posting more regularly on Patreon, which I'd say is a good sign.



Out of all the douchy moves I think the worst is for Ian to lie to Cherry and Lena to keep seeing both of them. It's actually possible to have sex with Cherry in Chapter 9 and still enter a relationship with Lena the day after, it's just a bit intricate to reach it. That involves Cherry explicitly asking if Ian and Lena are serious (during their meeting at the bar), Ian answering that Lena's just a friend, and Cherry deciding to go home with him as a result of that. Before that she's made it clear that she don't want to come between him and Lena after what happened between them in the past.

I can't remember exactly what Ian answers when Lena asks him about his relationship to Cherry, but the gist of it is that he wasn't aware that they knew each other and that it was just a casual hookup. I don't think he explicitly states that he won't meet her again, but at least it seems like common sense after the conversation they've just had.

So at the end of Chapter 9 you can have a Ian who's still involved with Cherry, while she thinks Lena is just a friend to him; though he's really in a relationship with Lena, who herself believes Ian and Cherry just hooked up as a one time thing. That's just extremely manipulative and a completely horrible thing to do, considering their history.

Spoiler: How to reach it

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Thank you. Gonna try it for another walkthrough as a complete douche.

 

[Night Hacker]

I hope not, so that the actual development speeds up. Eva Kiss argued that the rewrite was necessary for all future chapters, an explanation I can accept, depending how the rest of the game will turn out.

---

GGGB required two years to develop. This game is not even half done after two years and updates become even rarer from my understanding.

Now, is the game better than GGGB? Yes, assuming it is finished and the quality stays the same.

Is it so much better that it requires not 2 years but... 4, 6, 8 years? Absolutely not.

Unless the development speed isn't improving, I will drop patreon after the next version. I'm not paying for a 4-8 year development speed.

I still prefer just one character (female MC) like GGGB. I think it gives more options and paths and is less work for the DEV which translates to more frequent updates. I loved how replayable GGGB was, this feels a lot less so.

 

[goodguy80]

I prefer GGGB overall. It is still better then current version of ORS. ORS is too soft for now

 

[swells3674]

I prefer GGGB overall. It is still better then current version of ORS. ORS is too soft for now

GGGB is a more complete game than ORS in its current form, obviously. but the quality of writing in ORS far surpasses GGGB. characters are much more fully realized this time around.

 

[Night Hacker]

GGGB is a more complete game than ORS in its current form, obviously. but the quality of writing in ORS far surpasses GGGB. characters are much more fully realized this time around.

This will take longer and more work to complete than GGGB due to the increased complexity, but if he/she can pull it off, it may end up being much better. Time will tell. I certainly appreaciate both games and the work put into them. It's not easy.

 

[dundun]

I didn't read that as a pesimistic sign; rather as a statement that it's just the way this part of the process is. I find that relatable myself, at least: When you're thinking out ideas in your own head and then later plotting out the basics of the story, it feels energizing and it's easy to be creative; but when you have to sit down and actually write the whole thing, it's most often hard work and quite draining (especially with the complexity of a story like this). Still, it's just a necessary job you have to work through to get the reward of a finished product.

The thing is, it has been one and a half months since the last alpha. Half the art and just starting to write sounds more like 3 weeks into a three month cycle.

I can't remember exactly what Ian answers when Lena asks him about his relationship to Cherry, but the gist of it is that he wasn't aware that they knew each other and that it was just a casual hookup. I don't think he explicitly states that he won't meet her again, but at least it seems like common sense after the conversation they've just had.

He says that it was just a casual hookup, which is true, and Lena accepts that. And as far as I remember it is never brought up again between the two.

Spoiler: code

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It is rather suspicious that Lena doesn't ask about Cherry at all when she agrees to a relationship with Ian like he brings up Robert. In fact Cherry doesn't factor into the decision besides being one reason for an open relationship.
Maybe Ian might just automatically break it off with Cherry next change like Lena does with Mike and Robert. Or maybe we are railroaded into some mayor drama.

So at the end of Chapter 9 you can have a Ian who's still involved with Cherry, while she thinks Lena is just a friend to him; though he's really in a relationship with Lena, who herself believes Ian and Cherry just hooked up as a one time thing. That's just extremely manipulative and a completely horrible thing to do, considering their history.

Spoiler: How to reach it

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Spoiler

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[Deleted member 3064965]

The thing is, it has been one and a half months since the last alpha. Half the art and just starting to write sounds more like 3 weeks into a three month cycle.

I don’t think it’s fully fair to compare with the alpha release here. In that case a three month cycle should be split into 2 1/2 months of making the alpha, and 1/2 month to refine the alpha into the final version, with the latter part coming first. In that case we’re only one month into the 2 1/2 month cycle of making the alpha. Still, I agree it doesn’t sound like it’s 40 percent finished either.

I think the estimate of 140 illustrations is higher than for the previous episodes though (I believe the last few ones originally, before the remake, had around 100), so maybe it’ll take a bit longer but also lead to an even bigger episode.

It is rather suspicious that Lena doesn't ask about Cherry at all when she agrees to a relationship with Ian like he brings up Robert. In fact Cherry doesn't factor into the decision besides being one reason for an open relationship.
Maybe Ian might just automatically break it off with Cherry next change like Lena does with Mike and Robert. Or maybe we are railroaded into some mayor drama.

I might be wrong, but I remember it like the “Lena > 8” part of the relationship requirements was added between the alpha and final version of Chapter 9. If that’s correct, I would think it’s an indication that Eva wants to have some drama on that path.

I finally got around to have a look at the script and image files, and noticed that Cherry’s one of a limited number of characters who has a crying facial expression for her character sprite. That doesn’t have to mean anything, but I guess it could also indicate that Eva’s got some plans where Ian (or Lena) ends up breaking her heart. I wouldn’t mind if Cherry gets a bigger role from now on, both because I like her as a character and because there’s a lot of potential for her route with how she’s involved in both protagonists’ stories.

And yes, the information in your last spoiler was exactly what I was trying to say, your way of saying it was just a whole lot easier.

 

[BloodyMares]

It is rather suspicious that Lena doesn't ask about Cherry at all when she agrees to a relationship with Ian like he brings up Robert. In fact Cherry doesn't factor into the decision besides being one reason for an open relationship.
Maybe Ian might just automatically break it off with Cherry next change like Lena does with Mike and Robert. Or maybe we are railroaded into some mayor drama.

Yeah, agreed. Reported it to Eva just in case it was an oversight. It does seem strange that Lena doesn't at least ask Ian what he intends to do about Cherry. After all, Alison and Cherry are 2 girls other than Holly that Lena knows about, and if dating Holly made Ian auto-break up with Lena and falling in love with Alison made him unwilling to commit to Lena (even if he has feelings for her), it's very weird that he's okay committing to Lena, while cheating on her with Cherry and simultaneously lying to both of them. If that's an intended route, then his earlier confession to Lena is very stupid because his chances of being discovered are VERY high, and he knows that it didn't work for Axel. Will he follow Jeremy's example and try to say to Cherry that Lena only thinks he's her boyfriend? At times Ian is written to be smarter than that, but these actions make him very short-sighted and even dumber than Axel/Jeremy, because he doesn't learn from their failures. Either way, this has to be resolved in Chapter 10 one way or another, so that Ian makes a final decision and follows through with it. If he wants to cheat on Lena with Cherry, then he (and the player) has to be fully aware of the consequences.

 

[Deleted member 53157]

I didn't read that as a pesimistic sign; rather as a statement that it's just the way this part of the process is. I find that relatable myself, at least: When you're thinking out ideas in your own head and then later plotting out the basics of the story, it feels energizing and it's easy to be creative; but when you have to sit down and actually write the whole thing, it's most often hard work and quite draining (especially with the complexity of a story like this). Still, it's just a necessary job you have to work through to get the reward of a finished product.

That's just my interpretation, though, and I guess yours might just as well be right—or somewhere in between. But generally I think the status updates have been more optimistic the last few months, and she's also posting more regularly on Patreon, which I'd say is a good sign.



Out of all the douchy moves I think the worst is for Ian to lie to Cherry and Lena to keep seeing both of them. It's actually possible to have sex with Cherry in Chapter 9 and still enter a relationship with Lena the day after, it's just a bit intricate to reach it. That involves Cherry explicitly asking if Ian and Lena are serious (during their meeting at the bar), Ian answering that Lena's just a friend, and Cherry deciding to go home with him as a result of that. Before that she's made it clear that she don't want to come between him and Lena after what happened between them in the past.

I can't remember exactly what Ian answers when Lena asks him about his relationship to Cherry, but the gist of it is that he wasn't aware that they knew each other and that it was just a casual hookup. I don't think he explicitly states that he won't meet her again, but at least it seems like common sense after the conversation they've just had.

So at the end of Chapter 9 you can have a Ian who's still involved with Cherry, while she thinks Lena is just a friend to him; though he's really in a relationship with Lena, who herself believes Ian and Cherry just hooked up as a one time thing. That's just extremely manipulative and a completely horrible thing to do, considering their history.

Spoiler: How to reach it

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Regarding the last part, this is not possible. Saying Lena is just a friend is greyed out always if Ian is in any sort of relationship with Lena.

 

[dundun]

I don’t think it’s fully fair to compare with the alpha release here. In that case a three month cycle should be split into 2 1/2 months of making the alpha, and 1/2 month to refine the alpha into the final version, with the latter part coming first. In that case we’re only one month into the 2 1/2 month cycle of making the alpha. Still, I agree it doesn’t sound like it’s 40 percent finished either.

Fair is Alpha to Alpha or Release to Release. After the Alpha she hasn't much to do, just fixing the bugs, so I assume she is already working on the next chapter. That is why I prefer Alpha to Alpha. Of course lately she has added scenes after the Alpha but not this time.
My point is just that 3 months or 8th July is likely too optimistic for the Alpha

I might be wrong, but I remember it like the “Lena > 8” part of the relationship requirements was added between the alpha and final version of Chapter 9. If that’s correct, I would think it’s an indication that Eva wants to have some drama on that path.

No, that was already in the original. She just added brackets so it probably didn't work before.

I finally got around to have a look at the script and image files, and noticed that Cherry’s one of a limited number of characters who has a crying facial expression for her character sprite. That doesn’t have to mean anything, but I guess it could also indicate that Eva’s got some plans where Ian (or Lena) ends up breaking her heart. I wouldn’t mind if Cherry gets a bigger role from now on, both because I like her as a character and because there’s a lot of potential for her route with how she’s involved in both protagonists’ stories.

Me too, she is the nicest girl besides Holly.
It doesn't have to be. She could cry when she makes up with Lena. Her story is connected to Lena, after all.

But what is strange, while there are crying faces for Lena, Louise and Cherry, there are crying faces in a phonebox for Mom, Louise, Lena, Ian, Holly, Cindy and Cherry. None of which has ever been used.

I see some dreadful phone calls coming up. Especially with Lena's mom
To end on a happier note:

Spoiler: phone_cindy_slut

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[dundun]

Yeah, agreed. Reported it to Eva just in case it was an oversight. It does seem strange that Lena doesn't at least ask Ian what he intends to do about Cherry. After all, Alison and Cherry are 2 girls other than Holly that Lena knows about, and if dating Holly made Ian auto-break up with Lena and falling in love with Alison made him unwilling to commit to Lena (even if he has feelings for her), it's very weird that he's okay committing to Lena, while cheating on her with Cherry and simultaneously lying to both of them. If that's an intended route, then his earlier confession to Lena is very stupid because his chances of being discovered are VERY high, and he knows that it didn't work for Axel. Will he follow Jeremy's example and try to say to Cherry that Lena only thinks he's her boyfriend? At times Ian is written to be smarter than that, but these actions make him very short-sighted and even dumber than Axel/Jeremy, because he doesn't learn from their failures. Either way, this has to be resolved in Chapter 10 one way or another, so that Ian makes a final decision and follows through with it. If he wants to cheat on Lena with Cherry, then he (and the player) has to be fully aware of the consequences.

I always thought this way I'll get them into a treesome....

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

It does seem strange that Lena doesn't at least ask Ian what he intends to do about Cherry.

I guess you can partially justify it by pointing to their previous talk, where Ian makes his relationship to Cherry seem very trivial, thus making it likely that Lena just assumes he stops seeing her when he finds out about their backstory. That’s a stupid thing to assume though… Similar to how it seems stupid to not talk about what they put in “experimenting together” if they choose that solution.

if dating Holly made Ian auto-break up with Lena and falling in love with Alison made him unwilling to commit to Lena (even if he has feelings for her), it's very weird that he's okay committing to Lena, while cheating on her with Cherry and simultaneously lying to both of them.

True as well. It could’ve been tied to Ian’s chad variable, for example, but either way he’s not a big enough douche at this point to be manipulating them to such an extent.

And if the decision to push forward with Cherry is supposed to be more of a heat of the moment thing, it should’ve been visible in his inner monologue—admitting he knows the “friend” statement isn’t fully true, but that he isn’t willing to lose his chance to end the night with Cherry, even if it might cause trouble later. Similar to how especially Lena has rationalised poor choices already.

Fair is Alpha to Alpha or Release to Release. After the Alpha she hasn't much to do, just fixing the bugs, so I assume she is already working on the next chapter. That is why I prefer Alpha to Alpha. Of course lately she has added scenes after the Alpha but not this time.
My point is just that 3 months or 8th July is likely too optimistic for the Alpha

I’ve always assumed those weeks are spent untangling all the bugs and irregularities they uncover, especially with the remaster, but maybe she also starts on the work of the next chapter as well. Either way, I fully agree that a Alpha release in early July is unlikely.

Eva’s also been talking a lot about the planning of the chapter in the status updates, but I’m not sure if it means that she’s spent more time planning this time, or if she’s just shared more of the process.

It doesn't have to be. She could cry when she makes up with Lena. Her story is connected to Lena, after all.

Or she could cry when Ian breaks her heart, and then again when she and Lena make up, realising that it’s Ian who’s the idiot, just like Axel… leading to some hot, passionate make up sex between them. (Yeeees, it’s unlikely and a slightly immature wish, but I just think Lena and Cherry would be a really hot couple.)

But what is strange, while there are crying faces for Lena, Louise and Cherry, there are crying faces in a phonebox for Mom, Louise, Lena, Ian, Holly, Cindy and Cherry. None of which has ever been used.

Yeah, I noticed that too, the amount of phonebox crying faces compared to the others is weird. *Shakes fist at sky* Young people nowadays, bunch of snowflakes who don’t even have the guts to take difficult conversations face to face! /s

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Regarding the last part, this is not possible. Saying Lena is just a friend is greyed out always if Ian is in any sort of relationship with Lena.

As dundun explained way easier than me: “ian_lena_love must always be false or else Ian can't sleep with Cherry. And if it is False Ian's relationship with Lena must always be >8 or he can't ask for a relationship.”

So: As long as Ian hasn’t chosen any of the heart options for Lena (when he’s talking to Jeremy, and one time with Lena after sex, maybe there’s also a third instance, I can’t remember at the moment), he can tell Cherry that Lena’s just a friend. And then, if his relationship score with Lena is high enough, he can still choose to tell her he wants a relationship, even if the ian_lena_love variable is set to false.

 

[BloodyMares]

Or she could cry when Ian breaks her heart, and then again when she and Lena make up, realising that it’s Ian who’s the idiot, just like Axel… leading to some hot, passionate make up sex between them. (Yeeees, it’s unlikely and a slightly immature wish, but I just think Lena and Cherry would be a really hot couple.)

I wish for it as well. Lena's hatred for Cherry is based on misunderstanding and admittedly Cherry's screw-up. But it's not like Lena is immune to screw-ups as well. She does the same damn thing with Mike after all. So if Lena could see things from Cherry's perspective, and realize that she never meant to harm her, just lost her head because of Axel (something that Lena understands very well), then I unironically think that Cherry might be the best end-game for Lena, perhaps even better than Ian and Holly, because they would end up together after already establishing a deeper understanding and connection, rather than some innocent attraction.

 

[dundun]

I guess you can partially justify it by pointing to their previous talk, where Ian makes his relationship to Cherry seem very trivial, thus making it likely that Lena just assumes he stops seeing her when he finds out about their backstory. That’s a stupid thing to assume though… Similar to how it seems stupid to not talk about what they put in “experimenting together” if they choose that solution.

The Ian side of it is actually mostly OK. He tells both Lena and Cherry that he hooked up with the other one and that was just casual. And that is true. It is just that a few minutes (OK, next day) after telling Cherry how casual he is about Lena he proposes to Lena.

I’ve always assumed those weeks are spent untangling all the bugs and irregularities they uncover, especially with the remaster, but maybe she also starts on the work of the next chapter as well. Either way, I fully agree that a Alpha release in early July is unlikely.

I doubt that EvaKiss ever tests her game . She just waits for bug reports to come in. That is what the Alpha is for. And most bugs are easily removed. So it doesn't take much time. Back with GGGB she released monthly. No way she pressed a whole chapter out in just 3 weeks. By now, I'm not so sure. She might just take a week or two off. It would be understandable after being under pressure for 2.5 months.

but I just think Lena and Cherry would be a really hot couple.

You and me both, man, you and me both

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I wish for it as well. Lena's hatred for Cherry is based on misunderstanding and admittedly Cherry's screw-up. But it's not like Lena is immune to screw-ups as well. She does the same damn thing with Mike after all. So if Lena could see things from Cherry's perspective, and realize that she never meant to harm her, just lost her head because of Axel (something that Lena understands very well), then I unironically think that Cherry might be the best end-game for Lena, perhaps even better than Ian and Holly, because they would end up together after already establishing a deeper understanding and connection, rather than some innocent attraction.

Yeah, they seem very similar in a lot of ways. Both are models with artistic ambitions, and they’re both pretty outgoing while they also have a more vulnerable side. And they can also be pretty kinky in the bedroom…

The question is if they ever manage to look past what happened. And to be fair we don’t know much about whether Cherry is interested in women either, except that she was willing to have a threesome with Axel and Lena.

I hope Holly’s comment about how Lena should talk to Cherry, will lead to them actually sitting down at one point and listen to each other’s side of the story. And their paths are bound to meet again in the future; maybe Lena will realise it’s better to find a way to be in the same room together, rather than just walk around and be angry at her constantly.

 

[BloodyMares]

I hope Holly’s comment about how Lena should talk to Cherry, will lead to them actually sitting down at one point and listen to each other’s side of the story. And their paths are bound to meet again in the future; maybe Lena will realise it’s better to find a way to be in the same room together, rather than just walk around and be angry at her constantly.

Exactly. If she was willing to give Axel a chance to explain himself, why not give the same opportunity to Cherry and bury the hatchet? But since Ivy is against the idea, something fishy is going on there.

 

[Gicoo]

After Ian leaves Cindys apartment, Perry asks him where he was. One of the options (greyed out!) was Holly. I understand that Holly and Cindy are mutually exclusive, with the key unlocking their first scenes being the book event/Wades birthday respectively. Or can you actually play with both of them, as the greyed out option implies?

 

[dundun]

After Ian leaves Cindys apartment, Perry asks him where he was. One of the options (greyed out!) was Holly. I understand that Holly and Cindy are mutually exclusive, with the key unlocking their first scenes being the book event/Wades birthday respectively. Or can you actually play with both of them, as the greyed out option implies?

No. A greyed out option means you don't meet the requirements for this option. In this case, dating Holly as Holly and Cindy are mutually exclusive.