Bummer, I liked the idea of having a friendly creeper around.
- Thread starter Eva Kiss
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- Aug 28, 2017
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I just wonder if there'll be any IvyxIan scenes and if we'll get more Emma. Good to hear she took a bit time off for herself tho
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Hello people,
work continues in reworking and enhancing the first 9 chapters of ORS. Aside from updating Stan's character and his scenes with Lena I'm also changing other things, some are details and some are complete reworks of a scene, art and writing wise. We're also working on several things simultaneously, implementing new pipeline methods and internal processes. I'll have a complete change-log of everything that was tweaked when the updated version is released.
I have to admit I've been taking things easier than usual this past month, and progress have been a bit slow. I'm trying to get back on top of things and keep the updates rolling, but it's been rather hard. Getting to the finish line with Chapter 9 proved to be really challenging and after these 4 years of constant work burnout has caught up with me and my team. Aside from how demanding working in ORS is, this summer has been rather though for personal reasons and I felt like I needed to spend my Will points to take care of both my physical and mental health, which I was struggling with, and give my team a break too.
Anyway, this is all to let you know a bit about what goes behind the scenes, and though I'm always on the fence about sharing personal stuff I've always liked to keep things transparent with you guys. I know you're eager for ORS to progress and so am I. Like I said other times, to me the most satisfying moment is releasing a new chapter and sharing with you the result of all the work done, and I take a lot of pride in it. My commitment to the project is as strong as ever and we will keep working to bring the game I have on my mind to life.
I've plans to be more active on Patreon starting next week with a Q&A where you can ask all your doubts and questions, and sharing some of the progress we've been making so far. Thanks for your support, patience, and stay tuned fore more
- Feb 21, 2019
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You know what's great with this 2 MCs in ORS? You can even NTR yourself lol.
- Jul 24, 2021
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Milking 101 here i come... beautiful, at least she does this rework thing at ch 9 and almost 2 yrs from the start of the game, eh what's 2 yrs now anyway... and not after she finish the game or maybe after is finished who knows what rework will be needed...
There won't be "new" scenes in the next update per se. Like Eva said, she will be reworking and enhancing the existing scenes, so expect more of a ch 9 definitive edition than a ch 10.
- Nov 25, 2021
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You're talking about one of the most consistent, high quality devs in the scene. But sure, bitch about milking. Maybe you should ask for your money back...Milking 101 here i come... beautiful, at least she does this rework thing at ch 9 and almost 2 yrs from the start of the game, eh what's 2 yrs now anyway... and not after she finish the game or maybe after is finished who knows what rework will be needed...
5 bucks that the poster wasn't a financial supporter.
- Nov 25, 2021
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Only 5? My comment about ask for your money back was tongue in cheek. I'm positive he's not a Patron and never has been. Just another entitled twit on f95.
- Jul 24, 2021
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Well i hate to disappoint you guys but i was, true not a big one but hey it counts...
Nah i don't regret them 20euros i paid her cuz it was when she was consistent and not tryin' to remake a game that i'm pretty sure the big majority of ppl think is fine...
You do realize that the person that actually needs to feel satisfied in the first place with the work itself is the author, right? I can understand the frustration, but I think you like some others seem to think that this is all about you and forget that the person who's actually writting this needs to enjoy the process, otherwise it starts to feel like a drag. I'm pretty sure people who make this sort of comments have never been involved in any kind of creative process, because if they did they'd know that this is actually something normal. I can speak from personal experience because I've done quite a bit of writting a few good years ago and I can tell you I lost count of the amount of times I had to go back and re-write something along way because I felt I needed to change something, as things weren't progressing like I wanted to. Also, when I played guitar in some of the bands I had we sometines spent months re-arranging the same 2 or 3 songs until we felt pleased with the final result. This is a common place to writers, musicians, designers, etc.Well i hate to disappoint you guys but i was, true not a big one but hey it counts...
Nah i don't regret them 20euros i paid her cuz it was when she was consistent and not tryin' to remake a game that i'm pretty sure the big majority of ppl think is fine...
- Sep 11, 2018
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That's why even experienced writers finish the storyline first, and then the actual development process begins. Burnout can hit you like a truck out of nowhere. It surprised me when I learned that EvaKiss has been winging the writing all this time. I guess it finally caught up to her.
- Aug 28, 2017
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- Dec 4, 2017
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Please educate yourself and learn what game development entails. Your complaints not only come from ignorance, they're not even remotely constructive. Yeah, right, rewriting 20+ scripts of 10000 - 30000 lines each is much easier than improving only 9./s That's apparently why GGGB got post-completion revisions, bug fixes and improvements (it didn't). You either do what you've planned ASAP or you don't do it at all, because later it will be such a huge undertaking, it'll take another year or more to finish which isn't worth it.Milking 101 here i come... beautiful, at least she does this rework thing at ch 9 and almost 2 yrs from the start of the game, eh what's 2 yrs now anyway... and not after she finish the game or maybe after is finished who knows what rework will be needed...
- Jul 24, 2021
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Yes mr. lawyer you right... so when new update?
- Aug 28, 2019
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- Jan 19, 2019
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I think that's the correct mindset when you directly finance independant people like on patreon. Platforms like patreon are to put emphasis on the creator, not really what they're doing.
Yeah sure you get a product at the end, you get rewards, access to specific stuff or just access to the regular stuff in advance. But if you're spending money on patreon, it's probably because you enjoy the people and their creative process. You want to help them accomplish what they feel is right and good. What you're probably looking for on patreon is stuff and people you don't find or hear about in more mainstream media or streamlined chains of distribution. You shouldn't feel entitled to something because you give money to an independant creator on the internet. Yes, it's legitimate to think that way. "Vote with your money" and all that stuff I guess. But I don't think that's healthy, for anyone.
You came by your choice, and when you feel that's not worth your money anymore you go away and find stuff that you feel is more worthy of your money. That's fine. But don't be a bitch about it. It's not like you paid a 70 dollars game that's not functionning and needs multiple Gb of patch to fix everything. It's an independant creator with a small team on an ongoing process, they will inevitably have some setbacks. You implicitly signed for it when you decided to support an indie dev working in their room. Even huge companies have setbacks and delays too. Stuff happens.
You're not talking about a faceless company on patreon. You're talking about an individual. Just be mindful.
I'm a game developer at a big studio. The process you're talking about, storyline first and then dev, is an ideal one that actually is never really found in practice, or maybe rarely. It's like saying "first we'll do all the game and level design, and then we'll start the real dev".
There's obviously an order when you're working on a game. You can't implement a feature when it's not designed. But as much as I would like to have a feature spec coming on my desk, all figured out, I implement it, it's working, and then we go on to the next thing, that can't happen. Game dev is inherently iterative. Stuff thats sounds good on paper maybe aren't good when playing. And sometimes when you're playing you find good stuff that you haven't thought about during the design process. Sometimes a bug can create something so interesting that a feature comes out of it!
And I don't even talk about resources management. If you wait for the story and the design to be finished, what are all of your dev doing in the meantime? If you aren't doing multiple projects at the same time like DLCs or something to occupy them, there is a point where you can't rework stuff anymore. You need directions, you need to test, to prototype.
I've worked on many features, some of them were killed because they weren't interesting, story kept changing during development and levels had to be redone. That's how game dev goes.
The difference between a "traditional" studio and an indepent creator on social media and platform like patreon, is that all of this iterative mess is happening behind closed doors in a studio. They announce something, show a trailer or a gameplay footage, then go back for many months to do the dirty work that needs to be done, and then show something that it worth showing again. You don't see anything that's happening in the studio. You don't see the frustration, you don't see people getting ill, you don't see the burnouts, you don't see the doubts of the dev when they question everything at one point, or when they're stuck and don't know what to do.
When you're supporting an independant creator on the internet, one of the selling point is to have a "closer" relationship with them. You can talk with them, learn how they work, you have regular updates (even monthly updates are regular in gamedev world). You have the "chance" to see all of the behind the doors stuff. Many doesn't know how it works and it can be interesting.
And again, you're talking with an individual, not with a faceless company. The company can "hide" all the "dirty" uninteresting work related stuff, they chose not to talk about it. When you're with an independant, even more when they consider themselves somewhat of an author, you can't really dissociate the project they're working on and themselves. When they're sick, it's important. When they don't feel like they're doing a good job and aren't satisfied, it's important.
PS: After rereading I realised my tone may be perceived as harsh. It's not my intention. I completely agree with the people I quoted, I'm not answering "against them" or whatever, I just wanted to add stuff.
PS 2: About the second quote, I realised again after rereading that they may be specifically talking about visual novel, whereas I have a more general/standard game dev background. What they said may be true, I don't know I never worked on a visual novel, but I can see it happening as in its simplest form a visual novel is "just" an interactive story with visuals. There aren't any gameplay systems or mechanics that needs to be defined, tested, polished, maybe reworked etc.
Regarding my quote no offense whatsoever, I actually think your whole post just puts more emphasis on what I tried to explain here regarding creative process.
As for your quote from bauman, I don't claim to know how Eva's process works, but I find it highly unlikely it could work the way he suggested it, because like you pointed out, this is a small independent creator, who's now doing her second VN. To do what bauman suggested that would mean that Eva would have to just been writing ORS for probably like a year after finishing the work on GGGB. That's simply not viable. Plus, like you so well pointed out, that kind of thing doesn't really seem to be a good idea, because it will make the project quite rigid in the long run. This is a fluid kind of work, so if you only write the story before, later the mechanics you want to implement may not work as you want them to and you'll spend an even bigger amount of time re-writing. I think bauman's suggestion might work on something like television or cinema, but not on a game/VN/interactive story.
- Dec 2, 2018
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Eh, I think there are plenty of reasons be worried about the tendencies we are seeing from Eva. She is by no means a milker, but it is not exactly a good sign when developers need to go back an re-work large parts of the game because they didn't turn out as they had hoped. This is also not the first time she has done this for ORS, although it is the first re-work which is rather significant.
I think it indicates poor planning on her part. While there certainly is value in keeping the development of the game flexible, not having any idea of what is going to be included in what episode, or not knowing what the role of each character is going to be, and how they are going to develop, are quite large oversights. Having a clear timeline for the entire game and a somewhat established structure for each episode is probably advisable, as you can work more goal-oriented and avoid situations where you don't know what to do, situations which it seems Eva has sometimes faced.
It also synergizes really poorly with all the decisions she is making for ORS. She includes two main characters, which in itself ought to double the work you need to do if keeping the amount of content the same. Additionally, given the branching nature of Eva's games, having two main characters likely increase the complexity a lot, as you not only have to navigate how the characters that belong on primarily one side of the story relate to each other, but also how these characters in turn relate to the ones on mainly the other side of it.
Before the last update, we also saw another worrying sign - giving a loose approximation of when the update might be finished, and then missing that by an entire month. The update times are already 2-3x longer, so it is not exactly promising when time has to be spent on re-working large portions of the story and Eva is talking about feeling burnt out (especially when she recently took a break).
I am not worried about the game's continuation in general, as I believe Eva is far too professional to abandon it or fall into never-ending development cycles, but there is certainly reason to be worried about the frequency in which updates are going to get released. And unlike a 3D game where five months of development time can equate to 4000 new images, a 2D cannot. Eva should probably consider taking a step back and seriously consider the scope of, and what she is doing, with this game, as there are indications that things may be getting out of hand very quickly.
I think it indicates poor planning on her part. While there certainly is value in keeping the development of the game flexible, not having any idea of what is going to be included in what episode, or not knowing what the role of each character is going to be, and how they are going to develop, are quite large oversights. Having a clear timeline for the entire game and a somewhat established structure for each episode is probably advisable, as you can work more goal-oriented and avoid situations where you don't know what to do, situations which it seems Eva has sometimes faced.
It also synergizes really poorly with all the decisions she is making for ORS. She includes two main characters, which in itself ought to double the work you need to do if keeping the amount of content the same. Additionally, given the branching nature of Eva's games, having two main characters likely increase the complexity a lot, as you not only have to navigate how the characters that belong on primarily one side of the story relate to each other, but also how these characters in turn relate to the ones on mainly the other side of it.
Before the last update, we also saw another worrying sign - giving a loose approximation of when the update might be finished, and then missing that by an entire month. The update times are already 2-3x longer, so it is not exactly promising when time has to be spent on re-working large portions of the story and Eva is talking about feeling burnt out (especially when she recently took a break).
I am not worried about the game's continuation in general, as I believe Eva is far too professional to abandon it or fall into never-ending development cycles, but there is certainly reason to be worried about the frequency in which updates are going to get released. And unlike a 3D game where five months of development time can equate to 4000 new images, a 2D cannot. Eva should probably consider taking a step back and seriously consider the scope of, and what she is doing, with this game, as there are indications that things may be getting out of hand very quickly.
- Aug 26, 2020
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Please, I lost a lot of discussions, someone with a good heart can write a quick recap of what is happening with this game ? Are we losing it ?