VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[Ragnar]

Define average then. In my understanding, on average, the writing quality of everything mainstream, be it books, songs, comic books, films or games, is, well, average. It doesn't mean that good writers don't bother with anything "less" than books, but it means that popular products with good writing are freaking rare. You're just biased towards books and don't respect writers in cinematography or gaming industry.

A movie/series has runtime. If your script is too long, some story elements end up on a cutting block and it can take away from the enjoyment of the story. Talented scriptwriters are aware of that, and write in a way that would be ideal for a 2-hour movie, or a 10/13-episode series. And role-playing games with player choice have to account for many storylines that can diverge because of player's action. Regular book writers never have to worry about such thing as player agency. Even simple games' narratives can be brilliant by blending storytelling with player experience, connecting the story with game mechanics through ludonarrative.

But sure, "writing books takes more skill" said not a single experienced writer.

Saying that water is wet is not being biased. I said it already but I repeat, stop putting words in my mouth.
I made a tier list of writers' quality on average. Nothing more nothing less.
The average videogame has bad writing. Even highly regarded games for their writing have a polarizing reaction among players.

But let's go back to the beginning of the issue here.
We are talking about amateur porn vns, not about Bioware, Hollywood or whatever. So excuse me if I find strange when someone says these games have top tier writing.
I think the best writing in porn VNs can be serviceable or funny, but I wouldn't say it's better than the average book.

 

[BloodyMares]

We are talking about amateur porn vns, not about Bioware, Hollywood or whatever. So excuse me if I find strange when someone says these games have top tier writing.
I think the best writing in porn VNs can be serviceable or funny, but I wouldn't say it's better than the average book.

Well, duh, same as you don't usually see the art of top-tier AAA quality in these types of games. Because there's still stigma. Adult games are considered to be guilty pleasure for a reason and all of them are indie projects with next to no budget. If you're talented enough to work on a game, chances are, you want to be able to show your work to more people, and make your game mainstream and hopefully get noticed.

But then again, your point is highlighting the difference in quality between books and not-books, not mainstream and porn. Can you name some written X-rated erotica that in your opinion has the top-tier writing that is not seen in erotic films? Since you're saying that on average books are better, you should be able to name quite a few.

 

[ekroniuk]

It is pretty common for movies/series bo be based on books. Although sometimes it works the other way around it is rare (and I can't recall any really good book that was based on the movie).

The same is true for movies/games, most attempts to create films based on games ended pretty badly.

For me it supports the theory that writing in books is generally superior than in movies

 

[Ragnar]

Well, duh, same as you don't usually see the art of top-tier AAA quality in these types of games. Because there's still stigma. Adult games are considered to be guilty pleasure for a reason and all of them are indie projects with next to no budget. If you're talented enough to work on a game, chances are, you want to be able to show your work to more people, and make your game mainstream and hopefully get noticed.

But then again, your point is highlighting the difference in quality between books and not-books, not mainstream and porn. Can you name some written X-rated erotica that in your opinion has the top-tier writing that is not seen in erotic films? Since you're saying that on average books are better, you should be able to name quite a few.

You can start with Justine by Sade if you want to read good porn. And that was written centuries ago.

 

[jojogeo]

You can start with Justine from Sade if you want to read good porn. And that was written centuries ago.

Sade killed 7 women and buried them in his garden.
Strongly in favor of the death penalty, he sudently changed his mind after being sentenced to death.

 

[Nickly]

View attachment 1892650

Chapter 10 weekly status report (8)

Quick status update.

As always, I can't explain in too much detail what I've been working on without spoiling too much. I've been focusing on the writing maybe a bit too much, and pushing forward with that began to feel difficult, but I really wanted to make progress. I've found out it's better to switch to art related tasks when that happens, so that way I still get the feeling of pushing the workload forward and I get to clear my head for a bit. I'll do that during this coming week, focusing on writing but breaking it up to draw and edit some scenes.

Here you can see the final result of an image of Emma previously shown. What do you guys think?

View attachment 1892652

Also, if you are curious about anything in particular and want to ask questions or give me tips on what to talk about in these weekly status reports, feel free to let me know in the comments. I think that way I can come up with more interesting posts to keep you informed!

If Emma is going to look like this I might have to cuck Perry

 

[BloodyMares]

You can start with Justine by Sade if you want to read good porn. And that was written centuries ago.

Centuries ago there wasn't cinematography and definitely weren't any videogames. Name something modern.

 

[Mesmerizet]

The last proper story update has been 8m ago but I am patiently waiting for Cindy's corruption in the story. I'm fairly sure like GGGB there will be hybrid endings for each characters accordingly.

 

[Night Hacker]

The last proper story update has been 8m ago but I am patiently waiting for Cindy's corruption in the story. I'm fairly sure like GGGB there will be hybrid endings for each characters accordingly.

Ummm... Ian already had sex with Cindy... twice. Once in the alley, the second time in the last update in Wade and her home after her photoshoot, if you played your cards right anyhow.

 

[BloodyMares]

Ummm... Ian already had sex with Cindy... twice. Once in the alley, the second time in the last update in Wade and her home after her photoshoot, if you played your cards right anyhow.

If I were to guess, the poster probably meant Axel's influence on Cindy. Or seeing how Cindy's cheating with Ian impacts her relationship with Wade.

 

[CoalPhelps]

It is pretty common for movies/series bo be based on books. Although sometimes it works the other way around it is rare (and I can't recall any really good book that was based on the movie).

The same is true for movies/games, most attempts to create films based on games ended pretty badly.

For me it supports the theory that writing in books is generally superior than in movies

Um, no? First of all, there are quite good books on the movies. Read Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Secondly, the problem with game/movie novelizations and book/game adaptations is not the superiority of any one art form, but that they require a slightly different perspective in creation and their key techniques are integral to the quality of the work. Well, and the fact that novelizations are often not written by professional writers.

Thus, books use imagination, and one of the reasons books are popular is to create images of characters and places in the reader's mind, which is often seen in the way fans are disappointed in the cast of actors, because they do not correspond to the sum of the images in the reader's mind. That is, personal perception is an integral part of a quality literary work and the attempted "forced" rendering in screen adaptations often spoils this effect.

The main element of cinema, accordingly, is the audiovisual component, including the nuances of camerawork, the selection of lighting to match the mood of the scene, etc. A quality novelization can retain some of these impressions through good literary language and the conveyance of mood through the descriptions and thoughts of the characters and the small details in their actions.

The most indispensable element of games is obviously their interactivity. The player is directly in the midst of all the events and his actions somehow have some effect on the world around him, which multiplies the immersion in the action on the screen. When creating a novelization/movie adaptation, the author is limited to choosing certain actions, certain paths, so often other characters are chosen as protagonists, which may simply not interest fans, because they do not have the same connection that is established with the protagonist of the game.

 

[Existence X]

Guys, does someone have the site where Eva pays for the background art?
Just wanna see if there's some spoiler

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Guys, does someone have the site where Eva pays for the background art?
Just wanna see if there's some spoiler

You must be registered to see the links

No new backgrounds there, it seems. They had Axel’s apartment and Seymour’s office visible way before they appeared in the game, but those backgrounds might have been made even before the first episode was released. Any additional backgrounds now are probably made just before the episode they appear in, and my guess is the designers are less likely to upload additional backgrounds when they already have lots of them to present their work on the project. But absolutely worth to check in on now and then to see if something might show up.

 

[ekroniuk]

Um, no? First of all, there are quite good books on the movies. Read Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Secondly, the problem with game/movie novelizations and book/game adaptations is not the superiority of any one art form,

I disagree. It's not about a superiority of art form in general (because you are right they have different strengths), It is about superiority of writing. That's why writing from the book can easily be simplified to fit the form of the movie, but it's hard to do it the other way, because without audiovisual effects reader quickly realize that's it's plot is dumb/simple.

Take imdb top 10, six of these movies (Godfather I and II, Schindler's list, The Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Men and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) are based on the books, so it's a majority of them. Of course their level of fidelity differs, but still the creators had a base on which they were building. The fact that some book writers are also pretty successful as screenwriters also confirms in my eyes that writing for movies is just easier.

As for games - interactivity is indeed their strong side, but it often enforces simplification of the story, so writing is generally inferior to the movies

 

[juniorforlife17313]

8 months. Crap , the wait feels like waiting for the next game of thrones book guys. Here's hoping eva doesn't turn into a George RR Martin type obese goblin.

 

[Echbert]

Um, no? First of all, there are quite good books on the movies. Read Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Secondly, the problem with game/movie novelizations and book/game adaptations is not the superiority of any one art form, but that they require a slightly different perspective in creation and their key techniques are integral to the quality of the work. Well, and the fact that novelizations are often not written by professional writers.

Thus, books use imagination, and one of the reasons books are popular is to create images of characters and places in the reader's mind, which is often seen in the way fans are disappointed in the cast of actors, because they do not correspond to the sum of the images in the reader's mind. That is, personal perception is an integral part of a quality literary work and the attempted "forced" rendering in screen adaptations often spoils this effect.

The main element of cinema, accordingly, is the audiovisual component, including the nuances of camerawork, the selection of lighting to match the mood of the scene, etc. A quality novelization can retain some of these impressions through good literary language and the conveyance of mood through the descriptions and thoughts of the characters and the small details in their actions.

The most indispensable element of games is obviously their interactivity. The player is directly in the midst of all the events and his actions somehow have some effect on the world around him, which multiplies the immersion in the action on the screen. When creating a novelization/movie adaptation, the author is limited to choosing certain actions, certain paths, so often other characters are chosen as protagonists, which may simply not interest fans, because they do not have the same connection that is established with the protagonist of the game.

This is why i think that anytime they do a movie/TV show based on a game, they should do a story within the Universe. Game narratives for the most part are designed around interactivity, you eliminate that, and the narrative will be an inferior experience.

I disagree. It's not about a superiority of art form in general (because you are right they have different strengths), It is about superiority of writing. That's why writing from the book can easily be simplified to fit the form of the movie, but it's hard to do it the other way, because without audiovisual effects reader quickly realize that's it's plot is dumb/simple.

Take imdb top 10, six of these movies (Godfather I and II, Schindler's list, The Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Men and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) are based on the books, so it's a majority of them. Of course their level of fidelity differs, but still the creators had a base on which they were building. The fact that some book writers are also pretty successful as screenwriters also confirms in my eyes that writing for movies is just easier.

As for games - interactivity is indeed their strong side, but it often enforces simplification of the story, so writing is generally inferior to the movies

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience. In essence you can't look at a movie script in a vacuum, because that is only one element of the way they tell the story, you just missing too much to make a solid review.

 

[CoalPhelps]

This is why i think that anytime they do a movie/TV show based on a game, they should do a story within the Universe. Game narratives for the most part are designed around interactivity, you eliminate that, and the narrative will be an inferior experience.

Yeah, it would seem pretty simple to use the setting rather than the plot of another work, especially in the case of games, but for some reason many adaptation authors miss this in the pursuit of recognition.

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience. In essence you can't look at a movie script in a vacuum, because that is only one element of the way they tell the story, you just missing too much to make a solid review.

That sums up what I would answer, too.

 

[ekroniuk]

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience.

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

 

[Night Hacker]

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

You hit the nail on the head. I once read the book version of the Star Trek movie called "The Undiscovered Country". In the book, when Kirk fires the missile at the Klingon and the Klingon commander knew he was detected and would soon be destroyed, in the book it tells you what he was thinking at that moment, something you don't normally know. It's also why I prefer the original Blade Runner movie over the director's cut as it tells you what he is thinking with the additional narration, much like a book would, where as I found the newer versions without it very bland.

 

[Echbert]

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

Ehh, It seems like that on the surface, but screenwriting has a lot of factors to consider when creating a script. A Book gives the Author full autonomy, sure it's longer and more descriptive but they can craft every single element as they please, but screenwriting is a collaborative process, they have a lot of "limitations" to take into account, and it's a skill to craft something within that(though if i'm being real how descriptive each script is changes, some writers like to put in things like cinematography and such). There really just different, and take different skill sets. This is also why it's hard to rate a writer's skill based on the script alone, because it's specifically written that way to work in tandem with all the other elements.

You hit the nail on the head. I once read the book version of the Star Trek movie called "The Undiscovered Country". In the book, when Kirk fires the missile at the Klingon and the Klingon commander knew he was detected and would soon be destroyed, in the book it tells you what he was thinking at that moment, something you don't normally know. It's also why I prefer the original Blade Runner movie over the director's cut as it tells you what he is thinking with the additional narration, much like a book would, where as I found the newer versions without it very bland.

that's more of a personal preference though. Saying that, a good director will know how to convey the Character's state of mind in those moments without the need for "introspective thoughts". I'm watching the show "The Patriot" right now, and it does an amazing job of conveying each characters state of mind at all times.