ekroniuk

Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
43
135
The complexity is pretty obvious explanation. With every chapter you are adding more choices and you have to take them into account later. So story automatically becomes more complicated (anybody who ever tried to write CHYOA knows that it's very hard to write and it's getting harder and harder with every added choice) while it grows. In case of this game it's even more complicated, because choices of one protagonist affects the other.

The only option to escape from this trap is to make story more streamlined to create closed "routes", so to speak. I think Eva started doing something like that in last chapter, when Lena loses all Will points after submitting to Axel.
 

Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
21,897
27,158
Seymour is a prime idiot with money and the ego to buy people.
Lena is on the menu for many guys, most of which are way better looking and mannered
than Seymour, the blackmailer rapist who thinks a dumb photographing a beauty
and buying her charms makes him a proffesional.

Remember their talk: He will pick up photo-pornnography especially for Lena.

That is one creepy American Psycho threat if I ever heard one.

Still, players want to forget it and push Lena into the idiot,
forgetting the fact she has way better suitors than that wanna be photo blackmailer.

I'm all for Eva being pragmatic and keeping things as simple as possible within what's reasonable, but I think you're oversimplifying a bit here. Not everyone needs a scene, that's true. And it's easy to either not include Robert or give him a scene that doesn't impact any of the other paths. (That, however, depends on whether Eva keeps to what seems to be the plan, that Robert is out of the picture if Lena and Ian are in a relationship. And I think it's generally better if some of the sex scenes are mutually exclusive, which makes our choices more important and impactful. But yes, he can be kept out of the episode, or he can have a sex scene that doesn't significantly affect the rest of story.)

But what about Seymour? Eva can limit his interaction with Lena to a phone call and some interior monologue on her part afterwards. I don't think anyone is arguing that every character needs a scene in each chapter, but still it would just delay things until chapter 11. And in that case Eva will probably also have to tip-toe her way around the issue when writing chapter 10, because of how important it is to the story—which could eventually lead to more work than if she just starts dealing with it now.

The thing is that Lena's deal with Seymour doesn't just affect the relationship between the two of them. It also affects Lena's relationship to all the other photographers, and her job at the café, the restaurant and on Stalkfap. And Seymour's threaths also involve Ian and his career at the magazine and the writing contest. And if Lena rejects the deal, it will probably open up some other work related options that won't otherwise be available. (How could she otherwise afford a tramp stamp, nipple piercings and more horse sized dildos? ;))

Also it will probably affect the relationship between Lena and Ian. Does she tell him about the deal with Seymour? And if so, how does Ian react? Will it differ depending on whether the relationship is open or exclusive? And if Lena doesn't tell him about it, will he eventually find out? Or will Seymour even tell him about it, to show his dominance and clear away one of the obstacles that stands between him and Lena?

It's not like all of these issues have to be handled in chapter 10, but eventually I think they will, and to me that sounds extremely complex, and something that demands some serious planning on how it will all play out, in which order, and how one thing affects the other. Looking at the variations of a particular scene is useful, but it's not even close to illustrating the overall complexity of putting everything together.
Seeing the discussions about probable censorship and taming the content to adapt to Steam's rules reminds me of when I saw some people asking for rape in the early days after the game's first release
I think the reason GGGB didn't have any rape (and ORS likely won't have any either) is because Eva's games are somewhat realistic (as realistic as a sex VN can get without being boring), and realistically, rape isn't sexy
inb4: "real apha sigma chads rape women" :HideThePain:
If she likes it in the end, it's not rape. Source: japanese games :4Head:
Even after reading your message twice, I am still unable to see the impact of Seymour as something more than just moving the story forward. There are 3 options: "ignore him", "there no other choice work with him" and "yes daddy". Some dialog will be different, but I bet it won't be by much. Only time will tell, I will check the scripts once ch10 will be out.

I really tried to think of a reason why the development time evolved the way it did. The most basic comparison shows me that chapter 6 has 18 460 lines, while chapter 9 has 21 781 lines. The development time of chapter 6 was ~2 months but I will say 3 because some stuff was added later on. The development time of chapter 9 was ~5 months, but again I will say 6 because some new art appeared after the remaster. Now I will be a bit lazy, chapter 6 has 279 image files, while chapter 9 has 400. There a lot of overlays and images that might have been created in previous chapters (stalkfap content) so I will cut everything in half 140 v 200. Beside this data, I already talked about how an equal amount of paths have content. Basically a period that was twice as long generated 25% more content.

Chapter 10 is not out yet, but if we look at chapter 5 we can see that it had only 12 245 lines, but in two days we'll reach the 4 months of development mark. If you also add the months in which the remaster took place (5.5 months), in which you could plan ahead at least 2 chapters, we end up with some strange numbers.

So what happened ? It's a mystery, but for me, the complexity argument is not the answer. Maybe I just need to find something else to do, instead of popping around here every other day to see if there is any new "weekly" update. Even the communication has changed. In the last 8 weeks, there were 2 "weekly" updates.
The complexity is pretty obvious explanation. With every chapter you are adding more choices and you have to take them into account later. So story automatically becomes more complicated (anybody who ever tried to write CHYOA knows that it's very hard to write and it's getting harder and harder with every added choice) while it grows. In case of this game it's even more complicated, because choices of one protagonist affects the other.

The only option to escape from this trap is to make story more streamlined to create closed "routes", so to speak. I think Eva started doing something like that in last chapter, when Lena loses all Will points after submitting to Axel.
Like some players will remember, Lena has actual proffessional photographers to go to,
so falling in a trap so slimey and exaggerated is just one more dumb move to dumb her down as a character.
 

Moiraine™

Member
Jul 14, 2021
115
1,709
STATUS REPORT copy.jpg
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1.webp
 
Last edited:

Reaurt

Member
Nov 25, 2017
292
1,000
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999659
Now that's a teaser.
 

lockerxx

Conversation Conqueror
May 10, 2017
7,625
16,746
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999706
a new character?ok for who Ian or lena :unsure:
 

selberdreher

Member
Dec 29, 2017
448
944
patreons, this means paying people.
Opposed to a lot of leeches who just profit of the work and engagement of developers and their supporters, and in return exercise their freedom of expression to belittle those supporters and rant about the devs.
Even if their self-righteousness shouldn't really surprise me, i'm often dumbfounded by their brazenness.
You know they won't
You're right, they won't.
 

lipe2410

Forum Fanatic
Dec 23, 2018
5,275
20,401
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999706
Well, just my opinion, but for me the last thing this game needs is more new characters that will result in more variables, branching and so on. Especially charactes from another games that already were worked while there is a lot of ORS's characters that need be more flesh out.
 

JustAUser89

Member
Jun 11, 2018
187
661
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999706
Im a bit sceptical about the new character but I believe Eva has a special reason to bring a character from gggb to ors. Lets not judge before we see.
 

mr.hong

Newbie
May 2, 2021
36
37
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999706
Who is this new girl?
Ashley, Eva, or Natasha from GGGB?
Iris already appeared in BBC porn, obviously Jasmin is not.
 

dundun

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
709
2,248
Seeing the discussions about probable censorship and taming the content to adapt to Steam's rules reminds me of when I saw some people asking for rape in the early days after the game's first release
I think the reason GGGB didn't have any rape (and ORS likely won't have any either) is because Eva's games are somewhat realistic (as realistic as a sex VN can get without being boring), and realistically, rape isn't sexy
inb4: "real apha sigma chads rape women" :HideThePain:
EvaKiss wrote very early on that there wouldn't be certain things in her game, like forced sex.

But what about Seymour? Eva can limit his interaction with Lena to a phone call and some interior monologue on her part afterwards. I don't think anyone is arguing that every character needs a scene in each chapter, but still it would just delay things until chapter 11. And in that case Eva will probably also have to tip-toe her way around the issue when writing chapter 10, because of how important it is to the story—which could eventually lead to more work than if she just starts dealing with it now.

The thing is that Lena's deal with Seymour doesn't just affect the relationship between the two of them. It also affects Lena's relationship to all the other photographers, and her job at the café, the restaurant and on Stalkfap. And Seymour's threaths also involve Ian and his career at the magazine and the writing contest. And if Lena rejects the deal, it will probably open up some other work related options that won't otherwise be available. (How could she otherwise afford a tramp stamp, nipple piercings and more horse sized dildos? ;))

Also it will probably affect the relationship between Lena and Ian. Does she tell him about the deal with Seymour? And if so, how does Ian react? Will it differ depending on whether the relationship is open or exclusive? And if Lena doesn't tell him about it, will he eventually find out? Or will Seymour even tell him about it, to show his dominance and clear away one of the obstacles that stands between him and Lena?

It's not like all of these issues have to be handled in chapter 10, but eventually I think they will, and to me that sounds extremely complex, and something that demands some serious planning on how it will all play out, in which order, and how one thing affects the other. Looking at the variations of a particular scene is useful, but it's not even close to illustrating the overall complexity of putting everything together.
But it doesn't have to, also there is no need to limit his interactions at all.
Ian? Lena doesn't tell him about Seymour only maybe about doing 'a photoshoot'. In fact there is a non-disclosure agreement in the contract so she is not allowed to hell him:) And strictly speaking she isn't cheating on him as she isn't having sex with Seymour (at least for now).
Other photographers? First, nothing is impossible, Seymour just has to agree to it. There is one photoshoot with Danny in the last 9 chapters, not doing any more is no big loss. Stan is no problem as long as he doesn't publish her photos. Billy, the Wildcats and Instagram are already optional so disabling them adds no complexity at all.
Her jobs? She got fired at the restaurant and why can't she continue to work at the cafe. If she is modelling in the cafe, the contract is a bit vague about it, it forbids 'all modelling work' but only for 'other photographers'. But, yes, she will probably have to stop it. Which already is a path in the game so, again, no added complexity except one or two conditional texts.

All this complexity talk ignores that there is not a completely new path after each decision, there are several paths (cafe gets saved by Lena modelling/singing; cafe goes broke) and later decisions just change to an already existing path. For example Lena can lose her job at the restaurant early on except if she sleeps with Robert. Now she lost the job anyways. Both ways she is now at the same spot, so what were the differences? All restaurant scenes after she can lose the job the first time were optional and she got less money. I can't remember any scenes blocked by still working. That is not that hard to write. EvaKiss is aware of that and she limits the amount of possible paths not allowing certain decisions to simplify the paths.

I really tried to think of a reason why the development time evolved the way it did. The most basic comparison shows me that chapter 6 has 18 460 lines, while chapter 9 has 21 781 lines. The development time of chapter 6 was ~2 months but I will say 3 because some stuff was added later on. The development time of chapter 9 was ~5 months, but again I will say 6 because some new art appeared after the remaster. Now I will be a bit lazy, chapter 6 has 279 image files, while chapter 9 has 400. There a lot of overlays and images that might have been created in previous chapters (stalkfap content) so I will cut everything in half 140 v 200. Beside this data, I already talked about how an equal amount of paths have content. Basically a period that was twice as long generated 25% more content.

Chapter 10 is not out yet, but if we look at chapter 5 we can see that it had only 12 245 lines, but in two days we'll reach the 4 months of development mark. If you also add the months in which the remaster took place (5.5 months), in which you could plan ahead at least 2 chapters, we end up with some strange numbers.

So what happened ? It's a mystery, but for me, the complexity argument is not the answer. Maybe I just need to find something else to do, instead of popping around here every other day to see if there is any new "weekly" update. Even the communication has changed. In the last 8 weeks, there were 2 "weekly" updates.
Well, we don't know. I agree the complexity doesn't explain it. While it does make it harder, it nowhere should double development time. Maybe the 'rework' is a hint. She was unhappy with the quality of the writing. EvaKiss wrote in a Q&A that she doesn't go over her writing at all, that what we get is the first draft. So maybe that changed, maybe she now is redoing her writing. That could explain the more than doubled development time we see now.
 

dundun

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
709
2,248
Who is this new girl?
Ashley, Eva, or Natasha from GGGB?
Iris already appeared in BBC porn, obviously Jasmin is not.
EvaKiss wrote there will be "some" new characters, "some of which" we might know. So it could be a completely new character. As for GGGB there is a limited amount of women, Eva, Iris, Natasha maybe Jolene? Eva can be very different (like dead!) so she is unlikely, Iris can be in the throws of Arthur, but maybe she got over her daddy complex? Natasha is always on option. The image is called pnj.webp, can't get a hint from that.
 

hrmokay

Newbie
Aug 4, 2017
16
80
EvaKiss wrote there will be "some" new characters, "some of which" we might know. So it could be a completely new character. As for GGGB there is a limited amount of women, Eva, Iris, Natasha maybe Jolene? Eva can be very different (like dead!) so she is unlikely, Iris can be in the throws of Arthur, but maybe she got over her daddy complex? Natasha is always on option. The image is called pnj.webp, can't get a hint from that.
Natashas book store fits the ORS plot the best i think if it is a gggb cameo
 

Geralt From Rivia

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 15, 2022
7,035
44,899
View attachment 1999655
Chapter 10 weekly status report (11)
Hey guys,

I'm writing this post for the second time because Patreon excellent website decided to erase it as I was about to publish it

After seeing the result of the last poll and reading your comments, the choice to make is obvious: Chapter 10 will be released when both Ian and Lena's parts are completed.

I really wanted to give you guys something to play this summer, and I'm feeling the need to release some content asap, but I'll have to be patient and keep working consistently until the full chapter is done. As weeks go by the pressure of development gets hard to handle, knowing I'm keeping you waiting for new content, and being aware of the amount of work and multiple tasks that are on my to-do list before this next chapter is completed. That's the main reason I've been staying away form work-related social media lately, since it helps me manage the anxiety and focus my energy on developing the game. I apologize if that causes some of your messages or answers to go unanswered, but I'll keep posting these weekly updates and answering your comments down below.

This week I've been thoroughly play-testing Ian's part, revising texts, choices, game logic and creating finishing the needed artwork and graphical assets. Normally I hate going over my work, but in this case I'm even enjoying it, so I think the chapter so far is coming along rather nicely, and hopefully you'll enjoy it too when it's out! I wanted to try some new things, scenes and game mechanics, and there are some new character interactions you haven't seen thus far. Also, some new characters will make an appearance, and you might be familiar with some of those...
View attachment 1999706
It will be very cool if it's Natasha. She was my favorite character in GGGB, I loved her free spirit.
I wonder if she will be in the way of Jan or Lena? Better on Ian's way. The number of characters in Ian's environment is less than Lena's and it would be nice to correct this balance.
 
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