VN - Ren'Py - Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

this is written on version Ch.4 Up 4 Public

I love this game. The theme might be dim and grim and not everyone's cup of tea, but the story is very well-written it almost outweighs everything else. I'm not a big fan of extreme sadism and domination, but even though it is mildly avoidable, I'd take the extreme choice simply to sate my curiosity on how would the story unfold (then rollback, of course).

The scenes and render are very detailed. Every CG fits the narration, yet it doesn't feel exaggerated. Animation are smooth and enjoyable. The characters are unique in the sense that even the most cliched ones have their own depths and turn to be not-so-cliched.

UI are refined but kept simple. No fancy mechanics that complicate the game, but engaging and interesting. There are free roams that is not a chore where you have to find hidden items to unlock something, but still has details.

Music and sound is simple. There are notification noise to show if you unlocked something. No 'heavy'' lyrical songs, just a simple BGM music that fits the scene and narrative. You won't miss anything if you played without sound, but it does amplify the experience.

Despite the game has heavy sexual theme, the plot isn't sex and the story has depth. It challenges the mind and has a very philosophical side. Simply one of the best if not one itself. Came for the sex, and stay for the story. Exceeded every one of my expectation .10/10.

Hana best girl.

Great game. Recommended.

Pros -
1. The game gives you a character trait with few distinct choices chosen at start of the game. Thought it was very well implemented in a VN.
2. The game has branching paths and multiple choices. Mostly it splits your character into a Renegade/Paragon style.
3. Character models are beautifully made.
4. The backgrounds looks good. There are some animated CGI in between which looks very good.
5. Lots of content. You will be engrossed for a couple of days if you properly read along and don't skip.
6. The story, while not exactly unique, but still better than usual cookie cutter mold in most of VNs.
7. The dialogues and pacing of the story was very well done. I was engrossed into it and found myself eager to know what happens next.

Cons -
1. The game is more of a soap drama with a prime focus on sodomy/sadist kink. Proceed if you are up for it.
2. The game lacks a definite conclusion. I played the android version.
3. Although the pacing was well done in most places. I found that you still don't have a control over any content. You gotta go through lots of talking to finally find good stuff. Patience well advised.

Overall it was a decent VN. Kept me entertained. Overall rating 4.5*/5*

After playing this game, it becomes undeniable, that among all the AVNs out there - this one has

THE
BEST
WRITING
PERIOD


The storytelling, narrative, pacing, and characters are IMO leaps and bounds better than everything else on this website.

sometimes TD makes me feel like a literally illiterate 2nd grade kid, and so I grab a big-ass dictionary every time a new update is coming.

I really didn't care at the beginning about the visuals, but it eventually grew on me and GIL made some fucking amazing stuff with the animations I haven't seen in other HS1 titles.

11 outta 10, keep it up!

This game is definitely one of my favorites. The story and the characters are well written, the scenes are amazing, and the choices actually matters. I personally love Rosalind and Hana! I highly recommend it.

I actually loved this game a lot more than I thought I would. I know that it can be a bit polarizing to some, and I can see why it isnt for everyone. That said, I think it is a great change of pace from the standard AVN. Great story and branching as well as likeable characters. Hope to see more soon!

Ho boy. Where to begin.

First, before anyone wonders about my position (although the five stars would’ve been a clue), I give enormous, resounding credit to the devs.

Second, I’ve only finished the prologue. That’s right, I only got past the audition period, for reasons which I’ll explain, but what I’ve already seen has left a major, lasting impression. I poked around for a few glimpses of what lay ahead (mainly for Veronica) just to get a feel for what was in store, and my findings etched that impression in granite.

I thought I'd already encountered the pinnacle of AVN storytelling that invested me and evoked emotion. Maybe it’s the more extreme content, the deeper look into the darkness that I have no trouble believing exists in the real world around certain people with wealth and influence, but Pale Carnations exceeds that standard. By a lot. Because for all the extreme stuff already shown (and we’d barely gotten started where I paused, which is frightening), I know that stuff like this really happens. This, and a whole lot worse.

We live in a flawed, unforgiving world where wealth is used by the rich to indulge in their base urges without consequence. Jeffrey Epstein and P. Diddy are only recent, prominent examples of people who got caught. There are many, many more who haven’t been, and whose money lets them do things and treat people in grotesque, degrading ways that beggar the average imagination. I’m not pointing a finger at the ultra-rich like Bezos or Musk, nor at any figure in particular. I’m thinking of the semi-famous whose names aren’t always in the public eye, whose star has waned but whose money remains, whose wealth and fame and connections are enough to open doors without being constantly subjected to the full intensity of society’s scrutiny. People who can slip through the cracks.

The skin trade is real. What happens to women, the ways in which they’re preyed upon, especially when they’re desperate, are real. So are the things that some women are able to bring themselves to do, things which the men watching would vomit to even consider doing themselves. Yet there are women who do it. Who endure it. To survive. Does that make them stronger than men? Weaker? Somehow suited to their role as playthings in a way that red-blooded men simply aren’t and never will be? (That is not my belief, btw.) These things and more confronted me in just the prologue, and in what Veronica endured in her “punishment game.”

Sexual desires and kinks are also real. I’m not judging any of that. I’m of the same mind as a certain goth bartender: What consenting adults do behind closed doors is totally their deal. In fact, I could imagine a scenario in which this secret sex club might’ve been portrayed as a wholesome (and hot) place to explore untouched corners of someone’s sexual desires, if only there was genuine concern about consent, respect, and safety. Not coercion. Not manipulation. Not quid pro quo. But that would have been an idealization, and that’s not where the devs went. That’s not the story being told here, which is a story that deserves telling.

Let me repeat that. The devs have created a story that deserves telling. It will make you think, it will challenge your views, and it may even change how you see the world.

The real world isn’t ideal. It’s messy, and violent, and full of hidden ugliness that never enters most people’s daily consciousness. But there are some who live that ugliness. Who are living it right now, as you read this. Victims and abusers, the scum and the unfortunate. And there are those who never imagined they might find themselves caught between the two. Who want to help but feel powerless to do so.

This story shines a light on how power and position can allow sexual desires to fester into something diseased. How natural sexual instinct can blur the lines of morality. The devs explore that in a way that is incredibly nuanced and thought-provoking. They don’t paint desire or kink as bad. They confront male (and female) sexual desire with honesty and insight, and show how wealthy privilege can let it become something nauseatingly horrible.

This story…it’s not something just anyone could come up with, let alone tell as well as they have.

As I said, I only got to the very beginning of the first week of the story, after the audition period, and then I had to stop. It’s not because the story was bad, or the kinks too sickening, or any of the reasons I anticipated when, on a whim, I decided to try it. I was expecting a male power fantasy, heavy on kink but with very little substance. God, was I wrong.

Fair warning, you will feel revulsion in this story. Not toward the devs for creating such a tale, but for the evil and degradation that some part of you knows isn’t exaggerated. There are places and people like this in reality. In some ways, my revulsion was a comfort. I was reassured that deep down, even with my kinks, I’m nothing like the villains in this story. That’s another reason I tip my hat to the devs. They have to descend into such darkness, then channel it to tell this story, and I truly cannot fathom how they do it.

I had to stop because it was affecting me so much. I could feel the evil of the villains in this story sticking to my skin like slime. I felt dirty. Even as many parts of the prologue titillated me, I felt sick at my helplessness to intervene on these women’s behalf. And I knew the true depravity had hardly begun.

The thought of being left hanging further in, as the story naturally built to even greater tension, as more awful things happened to these characters, as I got even more invested…It was more than I could take.

That’s why I’m waiting until the full release is out before diving back in. Until then, I’m consoling myself with the fantasy that everything will turn out okay.

It has to.

By far my favorite VN. It blows all the others I have ever played out of the water. I am not sure how many hours I spent on my first playthrough, but I know it took me several nights to reach the end of Ch4Up4. I anxiously anticipate what happens next. The writing is absolutely outstanding, the models are wonderful, and sex is sexy, and the choices have weight.

I tried writing a full-length review, but I don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said by someone else. Maybe I'll try after next update. This game is a masterpiece already, and from looking at Patreon it seems CH4Up5 will be finished soon. I couldn't bring myself to skip through everything a second time to do Veronica's stuff (and unlock a few other scenes) bc I entirely missed it in my first/blind playthrough, but luckily there are so many branching dialogue paths/scenes that I didn't even have to skip through anything. Pale Carnations is so well written and thought out that I wish I could wipe my mind and play it blind for the first time again. I still haven't decided if I'm going to continue with one of my two endgame saves after the next update or start all over again.

(Chapter 4 - Update 4)

This game feels a little bit like a bait and switch at times.

Your job at the Pale Carnation, your individual choices throughout the game, and your relationships with Mina and Hana all have moments where it feels a bit like you're trying to drive a car but the passenger keeps reaching over and yanking on the steering wheel to force you to go somewhere you didn't want to go.

It looks amazing, and there is clearly a lot of effort put into developing the game, but the high "toughness" path of the game is heavily favoured by the developer and it's content bleeds out into the alternate route for our player character.

Player choice was a strong aspect of the game at the start, but it quickly took a back seat as the game progressed. There are numerous unavoidable sex scenes involving the main character, even when the story had given us solid reasons to refuse them.

One of my favorite games of all time, truly perfect in almost every way, the writing is incredible, the dialogue is some of the best there is, the concept is ingenious and so interesting to me, and every single girl is amazing (except one) and there's a lot of depth and complexity to each one outside of them being incredibly hot, mc is pretty good, this is a game that you don't ever want to end, 10/10 masterpiece

I'll be honest. Going through this game made me jealous. Not jealous of the main character or any of the characters really. Rather I'm jealous that the author is really good and their writing puts my snobbish-over-coomer-games-ass to shame. Somehow the author manages to spin several plates at once by managing to include more extreme fetishes in the midset of trying to tell a more heartfelt and fleshed out story while also pointing out the ludonarrative dissonance between what the player wants sexually vs what the player wants for the characters.

This is an author that seems to have come to the understanding that porn plots are doomed to be nonsensical at worst and contrived at best, so the focus went mostly on the characterization.. I could type whole essays on this topic (and I have in other places), but what I want to say is that a lot of people think the secret to writing good characters is coming up with things like detailed "character sheets" and are mistaken for doing so (or at least focusing on them so much). You know the ones with the likes and dislikes and other stats that people use in an attempt to give their characters depth? I don't believe in that, instead I want to point out to aspiring authors to pay attention to what the author of this game did, which was build nuanced, multi-dimensional characters through dialogue.

It's very hard to write dialogue that doesn't make you cringe when read out loud, and it's doubly hard to do so in a porn game. Somehow, the author of Pale Carnations manages to do dialogue better than any other h-game ever. Dialogue between characters, dialogue in the main character's monologues, dialogues on a meta-level questioning the player's choices and various inconsistencies. It's not flawless whatsoever, but it all comes together very well. My only nitpick is that sometimes that author is a little too intelligent for their own good and sometime's the dialogue from the various characters seems like it's coming from one single mind (the author's) a la Aaron Sorkin.

Anyways, excellent freaking job. Ren'Py games continue to impress and show the value in tools that are specialized and easy to use.

Thought that I had already given this a rating but I must have forgotten. This AVN is top 3 if not top 2 AVN on this site. The story and setting are something that I was not able to pull myself away from, it really gets it's hooks into you.
I genuinely cannot recommend this VN for anyone who is interested in BDSM and the other themes in this story, I really don't want to spoil anything but there is absolutely some fetish material in the VN which people may find off putting. I cannot find the proper words to praise this story enough. This is a masterpiece.

When I think how to describe Pale Carnations, or more precisely, how I am supposed to convince someone else to play it, there is this particular simple premise and scene.

Here is the difference between a normal AVN and Pale Carnations.

Premise, the MC is a bit drunk, and is about to dance with one of the girls.

The other AVN would go something like "and under the effect of the drinks, I made the mistake of giving dancing a go".

Pale Carnations:
"In an act of necromancy, I threw caution to the wind.
Bone and ligament came to life, bending unnaturally under the control of a rum-fueled spell of black magic.
I was by no means a dancer, but... it was funny.
(Was dancing hard?)
Simple repetitive movements and a rare case of body over mind.
Just don't think about what you're doing.
Just don't conceive of even the faintest possibility of looking stupid.
The moment you feel a pang of doubt, that's when you become stupid.
At least that was my utterly soaked line of thinking.
Maybe I did look stupid, but who cares?"

WHO.
THE FUCK.
DOES THAT?!?!?

The madmen making this, that's who.

The choices you make in this aren't simply who to date or fuck.
The girls can not be simplified in description to "milf" or "cute" or "bitchy" or any simplistic terms like that.
Your MC isn't just a horndog, he's a mediator, a bully, a pervert, a knight in shining cunting armor, or a sadist, because to build a connection with these girls (who, believe me, in characterization and writing are a step above the LIs in just about any other AVN), he himself needs to be able to match them intellectually, spiritually and/or sexually.

That's an Adult, Visual, Novel. Emphasis on each word individually, and as a whole.

That was me gushing, let's get as objective as possible,
Pros:
+ The writing. In case I didn't point it out, I can think of only one other AVN that is as well written/mature as this. This extends all the way from basic descriptions of scenes, to characterization, dialogue, story flow and pacing. Almost nothing else in the AVN space comes even close.
+ The visuals. The artist makes HS1 look ungodly good.
+ The music. In 99% of AVNs, I turn the goddamn thing off... not here. Some tracks are here to get the job done, some give me chills to the bones, and some I've goddamn added to my personal playlists. And I am very picky what reaches my ears.

Things that would be to personal taste:
- as good as the story is, there are a few scenes that are unavoidable, and are not feel good scenes either; the characters involved survive and soldier on, but if you haven't encountered sadism before, these scenes might give you pause. I myself was put off before because of this, dropped the game until I played a bunch of other AVNs, and when I returned, the scenes weren't as heavy on me and I could actually continue and finish the game and enjoy the abundance of other good stuff in it.
- I fully realize that the HS visuals might be off putting for some folks, but look at it this way: imagine you're reading a comic book and this is just the art style it utilizes.
- This is *not* a feel good wholesome story. It does contain many wholesome and feel good moments, but the overarching plot isn't. Your choices will have consequences, for you AND for other characters, and there will be moments where you can't make everyone happy.

Cons:
- none.

I mean it, if you don't like the visuals being HS1, that's okay, but also - that's subjective. If you don't like the music, that's subjective. If you don't like the story because it is not something that it isn't even trying to be, that's subjective.

For what it is, with the tools available to them, the devs made something truly special, executed to damn near perfection.

Pale Carnations in one fell swoop went to the top of my favorite VNs. This game has everything I respect in a good VN: phenomenal scenes, interesting story that makes me want to keep playing even when it's not 'that' time, choices that feel real and actually affect relationships. Every character feels extremely thought out and every decision seems to have a realistic and clear response by said characters.

The story doesn't coddle you. It presents you with choices that actually make you sit and think about the consequences of your actions and will make you feel those consequences if you're careless. This game has me checking for updates at an unhealthy rate. I am begging everyone to try this game.

The fetishes can range from vanilla to extreme but never unhinged, but there is (almost) always a way to avoid the extreme stuff if you're not feeling it, and even the vanilla scenes are amazing because the story gets you invested in the scenes beforehand instead of just handing you some mandatory 'sex scene 1 of 3 in this update' crap.

I know this sounds like an over the top review but I PROMISE you it is warranted. I have played 100s of VNs (not an exaggeration) and this outperformed every other cherished VN of mine. If you like choices that affect the characters so much that it warrants multiple playthroughs, this VN is for you. If you like characters stories that are so in-depth they make you feel empathy, this VN is for you. If you like a story that isn't afraid to delve into darker tones but still gives you the lighter stuff when needed, this VN is for you. 5/5 easily.

Pale Carnations is a masterpiece, with a unique dark-toned story and well-developed characters. It's the first AVN on my list that I've rated with the highest possible score, and it deserves to be in the hall of fame
Pros:

• Engaging, unique,realistic story that feels like a psychological thriller
• Your decisions impact the story
• Likeable MC
• All characters feel alive, with realistic stories and a personalities
• All of the LIs are well-written, don’t feel like dolls, and are distinct from one another with their unique backgrounds(Felicia is my favorite one)
• Cool perks system
• Music is always on point and enhances the experience
• High-quality custom animations and unique environments
• Camera angles are always perfect

Cons:

• For someone who doesn't like curvy/thick bodies, this might be a problem
• Fetishes are not for everyone; if you’re not into humiliation, BDSM, etc., this game might not be for you
• Unavoidable sex scenes with other men, but they are part of the story

Overall: It’s definitely the best AVN ever created with Honey Select and probably my favorite one. You MUST play it. 10/10. Must-play.

Everything important has already been written here, but for me personally this game is by far the best in this genre, a tier of its own.

Story is interesting, well-written and the characters have depth. Call me crazy, but I say that if someone made a movie based on this game, it would be a blast. But it would probably be a problem to find a cast hot enough to capture all the essential details, if u know what I mean.

I'd recommend this game even to people who don't like the main theme and the kinks associated with it, because you can largely control MCs personality, his relationship with the other characters and the related H-scenes. However, you probably won't influence what perversions Kathleen comes up with..

This AVN lets you do things and make decisions that most other AVNs would shy away from. You have freedom to treat the others around you in so many different ways, and the story is impacted by the choices you make. This might not sound too unique, but this AVN takes this farther than almost any other one I've experienced. There are some weird plot holes and things that are simply unrealistic/impossible, but the main story and substories are interesting enough with plenty of intrigue. Also characters are all very unique, interesting, well written, and organic. Overall a very well rounded experience.

Indeed, folks, this is a masterpiece.

Great story, with an excellent and tasteful portrayal of BDSM, kink stuff, etc. A main character who's not a goober, a high quality UI and so on.

My one surprising problem is, man, I'm not really into the body types of the characters. Obviously Hana is great, but she's not necessarily the star of the show. I suspect this is just me though.
In some sense, that just further praises how much I enjoy the story/setting. The fact that I'm enjoying this purely on the whole sadistic/BDSM themes probably says a lot.

I was dissapointed.

This game is just generic and boring.

The story uses do much "slice of life" and not the club as much as it should, most just feels like filler to be honest.

The characters are boring.

The models are pretty meh, especially the MC he is so generic.

The dialogue is pretty dry.

The stat system could be better.

The sex scenes are okay at best, just kinda boring.

The worst parts are definitly the music and sound effects, music is very generic and often doesn´t fit, and some sound effects like the record player screech are just annoying.


I wouldn´t really recommend it, unless you are new to porn games, because this is just very generic and not that fun.

Honestly baffled at how this game has a higher weighted rating than the runner up. The story plotted around unique hot babes working in debauchery and finding solace in an ordinary college student has average execution at best; a shocker considering there is a ton of potential in storywriting about a brothel connected with high end society.

Very early on, the writing falls short of establishing the size and magnitude of this debauched tale. Our protagonist is given a background of wealthy connections to get his foot through the door of what would be a corrupt and hedonistic realm. But then the story spends so much time shrouding the purposes of the Carnation Club in ambiguity, distracting you with mediocre introductions of the side characters, and forcing a buildup for the reveal of a potential Hollywood Babylon that ultimately ends being anticlimatic. What the reader anticipated to be a dark, twisted exploration of depraved sexual escapades turns out to be a lighthearted BDSM dungeon. The hook was so terribly weak for a 4.9 rated game that after MC got introduced to the entire cast I just skipped unseen texts to get the story over with and reach the girl scenes.

What the game lacks in storybuilding and writing is made up for in the unique LI cast. Their designs aren't generalized enough for harem playthroughs but unique enough to be memorable characters with a lot of depth. However, this game's MC is too much of a snoozefest and a terrible fit for the LI cast. When you get to know each girl, the MC's speech options are so lacking in depth and ordinary that it seems like the LIs were paid to give the MC attention. Every single encounter is the MC going, "Oh, I'm just an average Joe that goes to school" and continuously asking the LIs questions as if they were doing QnA interviews. Then magically the LIs open up about their lives and give a sob story for this average Joe to comfort them. It's like they're speaking to a mirror. The LI cast dropping their panties at the slightest hint of affection from MC completely destroys any ounce of depth to their character, and makes every scene seem like poorly choreographed pornography.

Render wise there's not much to say about Honey Select characters, if the creator chooses to have their characters all look the same then that's up to them. However, this only increases the need for exceptional world-building and plot design, which the game sorely lacks. This might seem like a harsh review but considering all the 5 star ratings, the playthrough was a letdown in comparison to the high expectations I had for this game.

Every girl is a big titted, slim waisted bimbo with a anime-ish model. MC works in a "high-class" brothel, so a place for old slimy fucks with loads of cash. Things get actually uncomfortable, ugly, and disgusting. You don't even get to skip or opt out of the more unsavory bits. MC's mom did porn and he still didn't get over it, you get to watch stills from it and even watch him watch some while you squirm. There's a feeding scene that might actually get you to gag. There's plenty of Ugly Bastards and while they don't get shoved into your face, they do get down to some business. Consent is stretched to the point where a direct "yes" should probably be understood as "no".

So, in a game like this, what's the best scene? Well, you take a girl out (not an escort) for some ice cream, then to see a movie and then for some karaoke. You get three progressively more intense makeout scenes, culminating with both of you busting through the apartment door with the girl wrapped around you. Then things get much better.
Seriously, the whole sequence is absolutely amazing, this thing goes through storytelling arcs, plural. This is a sex Scene with capital S, and it's not just balls to the wall all the time. There's plenty of gear shifts and the whole thing is topped of with some character development and some actual intimacy.
Depending on what your kink is, there just might be an even more intense finale around the corner, and the whole thing didn't just come out of nowhere - there's also a great scene before all of this.

This no rape fantasy, competition scenes are meant to disturb. Quite possibly because they are also somewhat hot... but absolutely disgusting! And hot. The game takes a proper look at the darker sides of pleasure and desire, and what lines people might cross to get some, and how will they justify crossing them. It takes some mental effort to see clearly evil people as "dark-ish gray" and to not see the sex workers as just victims, but at least effort is put into this. The game is actually surprisingly humane and the MC is not a piece of shit, though you can steer him to the dark side. There are also a couple of slightly subtle "traps" that might knock you off of your high horse into some delicious hypocrisy. while possibly off-putting in execution, is actually a great plot point in the end, and provides (limited) character development for like 5 characters.

I don't want to talk too much about writing, but it's excellent. No bullshit filler, you've got proper characters and proper scenes. Maybe 20 lines of dialogue are spoken but you get characterization for 3 people, 2 relationships, some plot and then some Plot. Then there are visual details, things to pick up on that no character talks about. There are tropes and archetypes, but this is basically a demonstration of how to use them effectively. Just a great job all around, and it also can be funny - tons of VNs try the self-aware angle of "this is shit porn dialogue". This game does this while delivering a joke built around the word "quim".

I'd strongly suggest giving it a try even if the things in the initial paragraph are a hard pass for you.