Patreon and incest patch

[kyle789]

This question might have been asked several times but here I'm rather looking for some clarifications

As we know anything related to incest is banned in Patreon, and after reading several other threads about the same topic I still had my own doubts regarding it.

Question 1 :
From what I know, you are safe from any suspicion from Patreon regarding your game having "Incest" content or anything relating the "Incest-patch" as long as you do not mention the word Incest or link/distribute the patch in your Patreon page. But I have also heard that if you mention the Incest content/patch using your Developer/Main ID in websites/forums such as this one, you still can get reported for incest content and Patreon will thus take actions and terminate your account. So basically as long as I don't mention anything related to incest content or distribute the patch using my Main/Dev ID in any sort of forums or websites then I'm clear from the radar of Patreon, Right?

Question 2:
Now to distribute the incest patch and the game by myself (As it would be my first game, I would like to provide the game for Free in websites such as fap-nation etc.) and as long as I anonymously upload my games without linking my Patreon, then They would think that it's probably a reupload of the game by some other person and they have no proof of knowing that it's the Dev, Thus no Ban?

Question 3:
In several Adult VN distribution websites there is dedicated Incest Patch link but for "Android" port of the game, in Majority of the cases I have noticed the incest patch is Pre-Installed (probably because manually installing the patch to apk's requires to unzip, apply the patch, then zip it again but the apk wouldn't install because it is not a "Signed apk" and for doing that you would need a computer), So now my question is for the Android port of the game having pre-installed patch, would it lead to some trouble for "Dev (my) patreon account"? As Patreon have no way of confirming whether the upload of the game files and the "Patch" is created by the Developer or some random Modder and if it is made by a Modder, then they can't just ban the Dev's Patreon account for it as it is not his fault at all

In simple terms, If the game is distributed/shared by an account in websites and forums not linked with the "Developer" and it also contains Incest content as well as links the Patch, then Patreon cannot take actions against the Dev (and the Dev hasn't mentioned any sort of incest content in his game thus less suspicion)

Please consider helping out a newbie here! also sorry for my poor English (I'm not a native English speaker)

 

[woody554]

1. you're never safe. and patreon explicitly forbids having an off-site incest version. there is nothing stopping them from banning your game if they feel so, regardless of technicalities. it's always a risk.

that said, they don't seem to really care but more probably only react if someone forces them to. like some asswipe getting pissed off on forums because you like/don't like ntr and then ratting you out. I highly doubt anybody randomly looking for porn games on patreon would suddenly lose their shit and tell on you.

2. they're not bound by any rules, not even their own. your best bet is probably to make it seem like the patch is made by someone completely different. like a fan. then keep your head down about it.

3. sorry, no idea.

 

[kyle789]

1. you're never safe. and patreon explicitly forbids having an off-site incest version. there is nothing stopping them from banning your game if they feel so, regardless of technicalities. it's always a risk.

that said, they don't seem to really care but more probably only react if someone forces them to. like some asswipe getting pissed off on forums because you like/don't like ntr and then ratting you out. I highly doubt anybody randomly looking for porn games on patreon would suddenly lose their shit and tell on you.

2. they're not bound by any rules, not even their own. your best bet is probably to make it seem like the patch is made by someone completely different. like a fan. then keep your head down about it.

3. sorry, no idea.

Thanks for the reply, I do know it always is a gamble after all, I just wanted to find the best possible measures I can take to minimize the chances of that unfortunate event happening, that being said, seems like other Devs going with almost the same route as I mentioned in my question and their Patreon account seems to be stable, I hope mine stays too!

 

[woody554]

Thanks for the reply, I do know it always is a gamble after all, I just wanted to find the best possible measures I can take to minimize the chances of that unfortunate event happening, that being said, seems like other Devs going with almost the same route as I mentioned in my question and their Patreon account seems to be stable, I hope mine stays too!

still, make sure you have a plan b in case patreon against all odds singles you out.

 

[kira123]

still, make sure you have a plan b in case patreon against all odds singles you out.

What if we use landlady landlord things inside our game? You know like "She is your...(default landlady) will it be banned by patreon now? I see some games do not use that now days

 

[anne O'nymous]

What if we use landlady landlord things inside our game? You know like "She is your...(default landlady) will it be banned by patreon now? I see some games do not use that now days

You should be safe by doing this way. If there's less and less games using this approach, it's not because of Patreon, but because it's relatively stupid and a proof of poor writing.

The difference between an incest story and a none incest story isn't limited to the relationship between the characters.
If the motive for a character to refuse to have sex at first is obvious in an incest story, you've to find one for the none incest version of the story. A sister can say, "are you crazy ? I'm your sister, we can't have sex !", but how ridiculous it is when the sentence is "are you crazy ? I'm your roommate, we can't have sex !".
This difference in the motive isn't limited to sex. A landlady can be a motherly figure and, like a mother would do, she can push the MC to find a job. But the mother will do it because she want her son to be independent, while a landlady will do it because the MC need to pay her for his stay. What also mean that a landlady giving some money to the MC for his own expense is totally ridiculous.
And there's also the behavior of the characters that is different. The MC can forgive what his bitchy sister do, but he have no reason to do it if she's just a roommate. He will stay humble if his mother scold him, and care way less if it's his landlady who do it.

Asking the player to enter the relationship between the MC and a character is equivalent to say, "I have near to no writing skills, but let me present you my cheap story". It doesn't mean that the game can't be enjoyable, but it will be because the player lowered his expectation the instant he had to write "mother" on his keyboard.

 

[Alcahest]

You should be safe by doing this way. If there's less and less games using this approach, it's not because of Patreon, but because it's relatively stupid and a proof of poor writing.

The difference between an incest story and a none incest story isn't limited to the relationship between the characters.
If the motive for a character to refuse to have sex at first is obvious in an incest story, you've to find one for the none incest version of the story. A sister can say, "are you crazy ? I'm your sister, we can't have sex !", but how ridiculous it is when the sentence is "are you crazy ? I'm your roommate, we can't have sex !".
This difference in the motive isn't limited to sex. A landlady can be a motherly figure and, like a mother would do, she can push the MC to find a job. But the mother will do it because she want her son to be independent, while a landlady will do it because the MC need to pay her for his stay. What also mean that a landlady giving some money to the MC for his own expense is totally ridiculous.
And there's also the behavior of the characters that is different. The MC can forgive what his bitchy sister do, but he have no reason to do it if she's just a roommate. He will stay humble if his mother scold him, and care way less if it's his landlady who do it.

Asking the player to enter the relationship between the MC and a character is equivalent to say, "I have near to no writing skills, but let me present you my cheap story". It doesn't mean that the game can't be enjoyable, but it will be because the player lowered his expectation the instant he had to write "mother" on his keyboard.

What has this got to do with using an incest patch versus letting the player input the relationship? Incest patches have the same issues that you just described. Unless changes are made to accommodate for both incest and non-incest, the story for at least one of them may suffer.

An advantage of letting the player input the relationship is that you save players the trouble from having to download and add an incest patch. The advantage of using an incest patch is that it's less likely to mess things up, since it doesn't rely on the player inputting the correct word/s. Also, why many devs prefer incest patches is probably because they think it's a safer way to get away with it, which may or may not be true.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What has this got to do with using an incest patch versus letting the player input the relationship? Incest patches have the same issues that you just described. Unless changes are made to accomodate for both incest and non-incest, the story for at least one of them may suffer.

Incest patches have the same problem only if their author want them to have it.

With Ren'Py, that is the most used engine, it's easy to make the needed changes in the story with the help of a patch ; there's a handful way to do this.
With a homemade engine, Unity, Unreal or Gobot, it's even easier. You just need to design the routine that will display the dialog lines to either take the text directly, or refer to a JSoN/XML structure for the sentences that have to change (a simple leading "$" in the text provided is enough to do this). Then you change the file hosting the said JSoN/XML structure depending of the version you want.

 

[Alcahest]

Incest patches have the same problem only if their author want them to have it.

With Ren'Py, that is the most used engine, it's easy to make the needed changes in the story with the help of a patch ; there's a handful way to do this.
With a homemade engine, Unity, Unreal or Gobot, it's even easier. You just need to design the routine that will display the dialog lines to either take the text directly, or refer to a JSoN/XML structure for the sentences that have to change (a simple leading "$" in the text provided is enough to do this). Then you change the file hosting the said JSoN/XML structure depending of the version you want.

Any game has the same problem only if the devs want it! You are wrongly singling out "players changing relationship" for being poor writing when exactly the same issue is present with incest patches. I've played incest games using patches and I've played games when you change relationships. Usually, it's clear that they are designed with incest in mind and when you play without it, the story suffer.

The only difference when not using an incest patch is that all the changes has to be made in the original game files. So far I've only heard rumors of that being something you can get busted for by Patreon. No confirmation that someone got caught for something hidden in the code. And even when using an incest patch, I think some devs change the game files too, simply because it is easier than creating a complicated patch.

 

[Meaning Less]

Usually, it's clear that they are designed with incest in mind and when you play without it, the story suffer.

If when you play without the patch the story stuffers then the game wasn't properly designed don't you agree?

A good incest patch would replace "We can't do that, I'm your mom" with something different like "We can't do that, I'm married", "We can't do that, I'm not a slut" or any other better excuse aside from just replacing the name.

 

[Alcahest]

If when you play without the patch the story stuffers then the game wasn't properly designed don't you agree?

A good incest patch would replace "We can't do that, I'm your mom" with something different like "We can't do that, I'm married", "We can't do that, I'm not a slut" or any other better excuse aside from just replacing the name.

It means the dev made an incest game and didn't care about the non-incest version. It's about wanting to put in the extra work or not because it's extra work to care for both, and it can be a lot of extra work depending on the story. But it can be done if you want to, regardless of using an incest patch or letting the player choose the relationship.

Your example is describing the opposite of an incest patch. It is removing the incest.

 

[Meaning Less]

But it can be done if you want to, regardless of using an incest patch or letting the player choose the relationship.

I don't think anne was arguing that it couldn't be done, just that it is stupid. Especially for people that play without patches or that try to be more creative when given a choice to set any relationship.

Some people might go with wife and daughter instead of mom and sister for example, but if the game was planned for momcest only then the dialogues stop making sense.

 

[Alcahest]

I don't think anne was arguing that it couldn't be done, just that it is stupid. Especially for people that play without patches or that try to be more creative when given a choice to set any relationship.

Some people might go with wife and daughter instead of mom and sister for example, but if the game was planned for incest only then the dialogues stop making sense.

I addressed that issue earlier as an advantage for patches. However, the fact is that games with incest patches generally (in my experience) has the exact issue of the story only being written for incest. Because it's not about how you enable the incest, it's about if the dev cares about both incest and non-incest. And most incest games do not care about the non-incest story, patch or not. Yet Anne specifically singled out games with "players changing relationships" for having this issue, when games with incest patches have the same issue. And that's what's stupid.

 

[Meaning Less]

Yet Anne specifically singled out games with "players changing relationships" for having this issue, when games with incest patches have the same issue. And that's what's stupid.

The difference is the ammount of effort that was put in the censorship, some devs go the extra mile to make the game enjoyable and logical even without incest while others give you nothing but a single variable to rename...

Sure some incest patches are just as dumb, but not all.

 

[Alcahest]

The difference is the ammount of effort that was put in the censorship, some devs go the extra mile to make the game enjoyable and logical even without incest while others give you nothing but a single variable to rename...

Sure some incest patches are just as dumb, but not all.

Which again has nothing to do with patching as the same can be done in the original game files when letting players change the relationship. And yes, such games exist, so... not all there either.

This is the last I'm going to speak about this because this is silly. What you and Anne really are critizising is devs not caring about the non-incest story. That's it. To make it about changing relationships is not understanding your own criticism.

And for the record: everyone knows what landlady means. It means mom/mother, which makes her daughter your sister. So the issue of giving the wrong relationships is insignificant on the whole.

 

[anne O'nymous]

This is the last I'm going to speak about this because this is silly. What you and Anne really are critizising is devs not caring about the non-incest story. That's it.

No, what I'm criticizing is devs not caring about, firstly their players, and secondly their own game. If they don't make the minimal efforts needed to present a story that will be coherent with and without the patch, why would they make more efforts for the rest of the game ? (Hint: They don't.)
The game you're making is your creation, your baby. You're expected to present it as goodly as it's possible for you. This obviously don't mean that every dev should have a AAA quality game, just that they should try. Would it be difficult (and it is with some game engine), it would be understandable, but for the most used game engines it isn't. It need really few extra efforts, and don't really add more works, therefore it should be done.

And for the record: everyone knows what landlady means.

Assuming that all players know what "landlady" means is ridiculous. There's even devs who don't know it, and started their incest only game in 2018 or later, funding it on Patreon despite the ban. Plus, since the ban started, F95z past from 1.5 millions members to more than 5 millions.
What can be assumed is more that the thousands members that log in for the first time each month, have not a single clue about why so many settings nowadays take place in a rented place full of female roommates. And since they are new on the scene, they'll not install the patch, precisely because they are new to this. They will test the game, find it ridiculous (for the reasons I gave before), and pass to something else.
Most of them coming here only to download the games, they don't read the meta threads, nor the game thread. Hell, we can regularly witness that they don't even read the thread opening. What imply that it can easily be assumed that there's more than 2 millions players who have absolutely no clue that "landlady" do not means "landlady".

So the issue of giving the wrong relationships is insignificant on the whole.

There's too many alternatives, too many stories that can be told without including incest, that going for the incest path is a voluntary decision an author make. And when, as author, you make such important decision regarding your story, you've to commit to it ; what mean that you've to present two stories that stay coherent.

 

[Alcahest]

No, what I'm criticizing is devs not caring about, firstly their players, and secondly their own game. If they don't make the minimal efforts needed to present a story that will be coherent with and without the patch, why would they make more efforts for the rest of the game ? (Hint: They don't.)
The game you're making is your creation, your baby. You're expected to present it as goodly as it's possible for you. This obviously don't mean that every dev should have a AAA quality game, just that they should try. Would it be difficult (and it is with some game engine), it would be understandable, but for the most used game engines it isn't. It need really few extra efforts, and don't really add more works, therefore it should be done.




Assuming that all players know what "landlady" means is ridiculous. There's even devs who don't know it, and started their incest only game in 2018 or later, funding it on Patreon despite the ban. Plus, since the ban started, F95z past from 1.5 millions members to more than 5 millions.
What can be assumed is more that the thousands members that log in for the first time each month, have not a single clue about why so many settings nowadays take place in a rented place full of female roommates. And since they are new on the scene, they'll not install the patch, precisely because they are new to this. They will test the game, find it ridiculous (for the reasons I gave before), and pass to something else.
Most of them coming here only to download the games, they don't read the meta threads, nor the game thread. Hell, we can regularly witness that they don't even read the thread opening. What imply that it can easily be assumed that there's more than 2 millions players who have absolutely no clue that "landlady" do not means "landlady".




There's too many alternatives, too many stories that can be told without including incest, that going for the incest path is a voluntary decision an author make. And when, as author, you make such important decision regarding your story, you've to commit to it ; what mean that you've to present two stories that stay coherent.

Good, now you're acknowledging that incest patches also have these issues, which is what I was saying. There are pros and cons of both ways of enabling the incest, but they share the same issue of the story not making sense in both unless the devs make it that way.

And you indirectly pointed out a big advantage of letting the player define the relationship instead of using an image patch: They don't have to know that there is an incest patch they are supposed to download for the story to make sense.

People know what landlady means or they learn. It's also about setting the context in the intro to make the players understand what they are supposed to input even if they are first time players. Some games might fail in this, and that's a pro of using the incest patch instead (but then people have to know it exists to begin with).

On the issue of the story making sense both with incest enabled or not, that's entirely up to the devs. Don't be entitled. The only reason the landladies and patches happened was because of Patreon, with devs being forced to hide their true incest story. The devs don't owe it to anyone to make the story work just as good with or without incest. I would be nice if they did, and it can appear lazy if the story fails without incest turned on. Personally, I couldn't release an incest game without trying to make the story work well in both versions. But in the end, that's up to the devs how much work they want to put in. It doesn't make the true incest story weaker if the non-incest story doesn't make sense.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Good, now you're acknowledging that incest patches also have these issues, which is what I was saying.

It's the very first thing I said to you:

Incest patches have the same problem only if their author want them to have it.

What mean that you clearly aren't here to talk about the subject, but to argue with me and feel better about yourself. Therefore, no need to care longer about you.

 

[Alcahest]

It's the very first thing I said to you:


What mean that you clearly aren't here to talk about the subject, but to argue with me and feel better about yourself. Therefore, no need to care longer about you.

And I said to you that changing relationships also only have that problem if the dev wants it, therefore it's wrong to make it sound like there is a difference. Something you seem to not understand, or you wouldn't repeatedly make it sound like changing the relationship to enable incest always has this problem.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

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