Patreon fired their entire security team

[moskyx]

The whole thing was one salty guy after being banned trying to get tens or hundreds of thousands of people to spend a couple of hundred bucks each on a bogus lawsuit in hopes of sinking Patreon in lawyering costs and that no judge or Patreon would notice the malicious brigading and reject them all in a single act.

Needless to say, it was never going to work out.

Yeah, well, that was obvious from the start, except maybe for some of those who were claiming in this very same forum that it would cost MILLIONS and would sink Patreon regardless. It still surprises me that nobody kept looking into that case if only to laugh at that idiot, I couldn't find any further news about the whole thing.

Anyhoo, still waiting for some insight about how firing a small and redundant team can compromise my precious data.

 

[nanayabusiness]

Anyhoo, still waiting for some insight about how firing a small and redundant team can compromise my precious data.

If you read the update, you would know that it wasn't just a 5 member team, but more like 1 in every 5 of their employees. There's no way to be sure how many of those were involved in security, but the claim that it was all of their security comes straight from one of said security team members, so I would think you would have cause for concern regardless.

I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth with you, since I notice that both times the thread you linked got banished to the shadow realm, it was shortly after you posted.

 

[moskyx]

Then, without replying directly to anyone and using only the links already provided in the OP.

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->After a tech posted that 'he and the entire Security Team' had been recently fired, Patreon confirmed that they had fired 5 people. They didn't confirm or deny whether those 5 people were their entire team, though. So 5 people. FWIW, their last breach of security known happened back in 2015 when Patreon was only 2 years old.

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-> leaving aside the 'cp' claims that seem serious enough even if those accusations apparently only involved a couple of accounts posting pics of their sons in bikinis (which is sick enough considering who may be interested in following that kind of content), the article says that Patreon has laid off 80 people, or around a 17% of their workforce.

When you click on the link provided in that second article (

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), Patreon says that those jobs are "from our Go-to-Market, Operations, Finance, and People teams". And, oh look, there's a whole paragraph about their security department:

Last week, we let go of 5 teammates from our security organization, which stemmed from a different set of reasons from the ones guiding today’s decisions. The change last week was part of a longer-term strategy to continue distributing security responsibilities across our entire engineering team, bring new areas of expertise into Patreon internally, and continue partnering with external experts. Unfortunately, the change generated concern that we were reducing our security investment, but I wanted to make it clear, especially in light of today’s changes, that we are in fact increasing our investment in security.

Now, of course, you can choose to believe the 'independent' online media and 'experts' you never heard about before or the company's CEO. The way I see it, they are facing problems, but I don't have any further reason to feel worse about the security of my data than a couple of weeks ago. If anything, that 'different set of reasons' that led to the 5 firings makes me wonder if Patreon actually detected a risk in their current security team. But assuming they were doing a poor job would be unfair from me.

 

[moskyx]

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->After a tech posted that 'he and the entire Security Team' had been recently fired, Patreon confirmed that they had fired 5 people. They didn't confirm or deny whether those 5 people were their entire team, though. So 5 people. FWIW, their last breach of security known happened back in 2015 when Patreon was only 2 years old.

Related to that article, I found this other one from what I consider a reliable source (

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) that claims that Patreon did reply to further inquiries and stated that those 5 people weren't their entire security team and "can confirm a majority of Patreon’s internal engineers working on security remain in place."

So yeah, a few people were fired, they are re-structuring their security branch and the company as a whole, and I still fail to see why my data are now less protected than it was a couple of weeks ago.

 

[anne O'nymous]

It still surprises me that nobody kept looking into that case if only to laugh at that idiot, I couldn't find any further news about the whole thing.

The last news are

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. Scroll down a bit (or click

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) and you'll find a summary of what happened.
Globally speaking, all the arbitration were dismissed as expected, and the guy took it deep in the ass

 

[moskyx]

The last news are

You must be registered to see the links

. Scroll down a bit (or click

You must be registered to see the links

) and you'll find a summary of what happened.
Globally speaking, all the arbitration were dismissed as expected, and the guy took it deep in the ass

I see. And most likely the arbitration result included some kind of confidentiality agreement, hence the lack of news about the topic. Well, it was fun to see from out here anyway

 

[Vengel]

F95 mirrors Patreon and supports Communism?

I worded that in a confusing manner ...
This forum like many other places on the internet are mirrors to a broken platform that Patreon is. I can go into the games or ART section and with ease find games and or art that has been posted which contains under aged characters. We are made to believe like all of us are retards that > Nope ... that 18 years old character. More than half of those "artist" are on Patreon. That's what I mean. Outside of that ... patreon has some hardcore communist oriented influencers there.

 

[Vengel]

You know that Patreon ban this since now near to 5 years, right ? Along side with effective pornography (photography/movies of real persons), prostitution and few other topics.




I really wonder what "funny enough communism" can be. Can we have an example please ?




Exposing peoples who break Patreon's rules is a good thing.

Hmm, no, I change that. The good thing would be to report the account to Patreon, for them to act. But well, who am I to judge streamers who are using this issue as clickbait ? It's not like they are themselves exploiting those (representation of?) children in order to earn more money.
Oh, wait, yes, it's what they are doing...

You know ... I get the "I'm smart and will shine everywhere" issues you are having. The problem is you are just irritating and boring ...
Patreon still has the content because it actually brings money ... whistle blowers already reported that in many cases those accounts are not stopped at all because they bring revenue. A lot of companies bring out heroic messages for the masses and PR > British Oil about green energy

your communism quote > I used it in an different landscape > try and be smart in taking stuff out of the context > I live in a ex communist country ... relax ... it's not funny.

The fact that you tried to diminish and muddy the underlining of the reporting activity ... and throwing in some story about somebody doing it to clickbait > well ... you can go ahead and ****k o** my dear
And no ... people that report news ... not somebody banned there ...
Companies cannot be trusted in those cases with internal regulation > they exist for revenue ... anyone who thinks otherwise is a idiot.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Patreon still has the content because it actually brings money ... whistle blowers already reported that in many cases those accounts are not stopped at all because they bring revenue. A lot of companies bring out heroic messages for the masses and PR > British Oil about green energy

Except that it's not a message, it's an action the payment processors they are working with forced them to take.
Ignoring a report on one of the banned content would have only one consequence, they would loose all support from their payment processor partners. And Patreon without Visa, MasterCard and PayPal is just an empty shell that worth nothing.

your communism quote > I used it in an different landscape > try and be smart in taking stuff out of the context > I live in a ex communist country ... relax ... it's not funny.

I'm still wondering what "funny enough communism" can mean, but well, it will not prevent me to sleep.

The fact that you tried to diminish and muddy the underlining of the reporting activity ... and throwing in some story about somebody doing it to clickbait > well ... you can go ahead and ****k o** my dear

I'm just saying things like they are. If you found p*d*shit content online, you report it to the site where you found it, as well as to the competent authorities. If you are streaming about it, you don't worth more than the people you claim to denounce.

And, by the way, are you seriously censoring "fuck off" on a site dedicated to porn ?

 

[Alcahest]

The whole thing was one salty guy after being banned trying to get tens or hundreds of thousands of people to spend a couple of hundred bucks each on a bogus lawsuit in hopes of sinking Patreon in lawyering costs and that no judge or Patreon would notice the malicious brigading and reject them all in a single act.

Needless to say, it was never going to work out.

Except you missed the point.

Yeah, well, that was obvious from the start, except maybe for some of those who were claiming in this very same forum that it would cost MILLIONS and would sink Patreon regardless.

Exactly, it was about the arbitration fee which would be paid regardless of the cases being thrown out or not. And so far in this thread, the only thing resembling an account of what happened, the

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posted by Anne, supports the idea that Patreon did in fact have to pay all these fees. Because of NDA we don't know how much, but there is nothing saying the idea behind the mass arbitration was wrong, only that it didn't work because not enough people joined. And for the record, I never thought they would succeed in bankrupting Patreon, just trying to stick to facts about what the whole thing was about.

 

[redknight00]

Except you missed the point.

Exactly, it was about the arbitration fee which would be paid regardless of the cases being thrown out or not. And so far in this thread, the only thing resembling an account of what happened, the

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posted by Anne, supports the idea that Patreon did in fact have to pay all these fees. Because of NDA we don't know how much, but there is nothing saying the idea behind the mass arbitration was wrong, only that it didn't work because not enough people joined. And for the record, I never thought they would succeed in bankrupting Patreon, just trying to stick to facts about what the whole thing was about.

They did not pay all fees since the bulk of the arbitrations were pulled back by the claimants after Patreon counter-sued. If anything it goes back to the fatal flaw I mentioned: Patreon is not just going to stand there and bleed money, they used a reverse uno card and filed a bogus countersuit to make the other side bleed money and be doxxed and the whole thing turned into a very expensive game of chicken. And it's a very bad idea to play financial chicken with a million-dollar company.

 

[Alcahest]

They did not pay all fees since the bulk of the arbitrations were pulled back by the claimants after Patreon counter-sued. If anything it goes back to the fatal flaw I mentioned: Patreon is not just going to stand there and bleed money, they used a reverse uno card and filed a bogus countersuit to make the other side bleed money and be doxxed and the whole thing turned into a very expensive game of chicken. And it's a very bad idea to play financial chicken with a million-dollar company.

That's not what the guy in the link says. According to him, Patreon's countersuit failed, all the 72 arbitrations were eventually allowed to continue. As expected, they were essentially found to have no merit, but Patreon would still have to pay those fees. Unless you have a source saying otherwise.

I'm not defending what Owen did, getting 72 morons to risk their finances for him, but it seems the basic idea of forcing Patreon to pay arbitrations fees turned out to be correct even if it didn't seem to lead to much in the end. However, we don't know how shaken Patreon actually were. Unless you want to share NDA info.

 

[moskyx]

That's not what the guy in the link says. According to him, Patreon's countersuit failed, all the 72 arbitrations were eventually allowed to continue. As expected, they were essentially found to have no merit, but Patreon would still have to pay those fees. Unless you have a source saying otherwise.

I'm not defending what Owen did, getting 72 morons to risk their finances for him, but it seems the basic idea of forcing Patreon to pay arbitrations fees turned out to be correct even if it didn't seem to lead to much in the end. However, we don't know how shaken Patreon actually were. Unless you want to share NDA info.

Anyway, the discussion back then was whether those arbitration costs would cause a deadly impact on Patreon's finances. Which obviously was never going to be the case despite some forumers claiming otherwise. Patreon had messy ToS and they eventually paid for it while getting rid of that alt-right scum, they changed those ToS to try and avoid this kind of reactions, and that's all.

 

[Alcahest]

Anyway, the discussion back then was whether those arbitration costs would cause a deadly impact on Patreon's finances. Which obviously was never going to be the case despite some forumers claiming otherwise. Patreon had messy ToS and they eventually paid for it while getting rid of that alt-right scum, they changed those ToS to try and avoid this kind of reactions, and that's all.

But we don't know much more about the outcome now than we did then, since it's all buried in NDAs (probably), so you don't bring anything new to the case to warrant your "obviously". For all you know, unless you have any evidence to show saying otherwise, Patreon's finances could have been hit hard by what happened, IF they had gotten more than 72 people on board. But since it only stayed with 72 people, probably not very big impact on Patreon.

 

[redknight00]

That's not what the guy in the link says. According to him, Patreon's countersuit failed, all the 72 arbitrations were eventually allowed to continue. As expected, they were essentially found to have no merit, but Patreon would still have to pay those fees. Unless you have a source saying otherwise.

I'm not defending what Owen did, getting 72 morons to risk their finances for him, but it seems the basic idea of forcing Patreon to pay arbitrations fees turned out to be correct even if it didn't seem to lead to much in the end. However, we don't know how shaken Patreon actually were. Unless you want to share NDA info.

I was not very clear, the countersuit failed and the arbitrations were allowed to continue, but many of the fools withdrew after being doxxed and the threat of legal costs, not to mention most of the ones that were withdrawn were closed without a hearing, so minimal costs for Patreon.

The idea is still technically correct but as the costs were mostly public (ie, not settled in arbitration and the administrative fees are available for anyone who wants to math or revealed by Owen's laywer), just not nearly as effective or safe as was pitched, it was meant to be "30k, anonymity and safety vs millions in legal costs for Patreon" but in reality, it was "100k+, everyone gets doxxed and still at legal risk v tens of thousands in legal costs for Patreon".

 

[moskyx]

But we don't know much more about the outcome now than we did then, since it's all buried in NDAs (probably), so you don't bring anything new to the case to warrant your "obviously". For all you know, unless you have any evidence to show saying otherwise, Patreon's finances could have been hit hard by what happened, IF they had gotten more than 72 people on board. But since it only stayed with 72 people, probably not very big impact on Patreon.

"Obviously" as in "the most logical conclusion someone with no ideological interests on it and half a functional brain could reach back then, considering the motivation behind this whole process, the number of people involved, and Patreon's annual revenue and fundraising rounds figures".

 

[anne O'nymous]

I was not very clear, the countersuit failed and the arbitrations were allowed to continue, but many of the fools withdrew after being doxxed and the threat of legal costs, not to mention most of the ones that were withdrawn were closed without a hearing, so minimal costs for Patreon.

The whole thing was presented as free, without risk, and it was supposed to help him get back on Patreon. So, when the reality knocked at their door, with the need to have a lawyer (that he payed), the risk to be sentenced, and when it appear that he didn't really cared to be back on Patreon (he asked few millions to close the case by a conciliation), there were suddenly found less people ready to help him.
The funny part is that in a way he won. Patreon was sentenced because the ToS change haven't be done like it should have, or something like that. But he never came back on Patreon, and when Patreon discovered and banned a second account he had, he did nothing. So, I guess that his victory was way more symbolic than he expected.
We will never know since there's apparently a confidentiality clause but, accordingly to the information I can found, he don't looks like someone who won few millions, and more like someone who have to count each buck he spend.

The idea is still technically correct but [...]

The main problem is the number of people doing it. They were 72, it will never works with so few people.
Patreon was probably making around 10 millions benefits at this time (it was 7 in 2017). So, it would have been a bad year, but they could afford to loose 10 millions without it to have a real impact. Below 1,000 they had no chance to harm Patreon.
For it to works it also need a better reason to go on arbitration. Like you said, they were all dismissed without hearing, what mean that it didn't lasted years like they expected, and so there were no additional costs for Patreon.

In the end, between the failed counter-suit, the arbitration costs, and what they had to pay him because he won his own case, including their lawyer(s) costs Patreon have probably spent something like 300,000. I'm not sure that it prevented them to have more benefits than the previous year.