Patreon: Permitted Incest

[Impious Monk]

This is Patreon's current policy on incest:

"We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish creations, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish creations that are hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.

We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing these types of creations, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Lolita are allowed on Patreon."

I've seen the policy quoted in older posts where "Game of Thrones" was listed alongside Lolita as being permitted, so I'm assuming at some point in the recent past Patreon removed it.

First question: Do any of you know what the thought process was behind removing GoT as a specificly noted exception?

Second question: Can you think of any obviously permitted incest on Patreon? When I say "obviously permitted," I'm not talking about policy workarounds like using "landlady" etc., nor am I referring to smaller games with clear incest that have escaped Patreon's notice.

As to the second question, the only actual game I'm aware of is the excellent "Wicked Choices." In 2018, the dev suggested the game may have survived the purge due to the incest having a GoT vibe to it. I think that preceded the removal of GoT as a named exception to the policy.

Basically, I'm trying to get an idea for what permitted incest looks like, and I'm wondering if the definition of permitted incest has been narrowed recently.

 

[Winterfire]

It seems pretty straightforward to me... Permitted incest consists of aything that is not sexualized, so not as a fetish.
For example you could have a heroine born from an incentuous family, plot twists relative to incest (such as discovering that your brother in reality is the son of the aunt with another brother of yours), incest mentions in history or current story (for example "That family is known to have performed incest for years").

 

[Meaning Less]

I bet there is a grey area to explore there.
You could probably get away with some teasing between family members, maybe even some kissing and groping as long as you don't cross the sex line, many anime shows do that.
But the moment that you start fetishizing actual sex then it will probably cross the line.

 

[Winterfire]

I bet there is a grey area to explore there.
You could probably get away with some teasing between family members, maybe even some kissing and groping as long as you don't cross the sex line, many anime shows do that.
But the moment that you start fetishizing actual sex then it will probably cross the line.

You could probably get away with kissing since supposedly some countries do have kisses between family members.

 

[fidless]

It's safe as long as actual scenes do not show actual sex. Light erotica may be OK as a creative work (like GOT show) if it drives a plot, but don't expect Patreon to play along with some porn games trying to break the rules or push the line just to show incestuous sex.

 

[Impious Monk]

In response to these comments, however, I note that "Wicked Choices" did have a graphic sex scene between an uncle and his niece. I think there was more than that, too, but I'd have to replay it to refresh my memory.

Edit: this is the post from the dev I'm referring to.

https://f95zone.to/threads/wicked-c...ed-v1-0-1-aslpro3d.5925/page-241#post-1270826

 

[Obscure]

What they mean when they say "Game of Thrones" and "Lolita" what they mean is a property large enough to be of cultural significance.

HBO series, TV movie, random conversation between old ladies significance.

 

[i107760]

Just don't risk it would be my advice. You never know how the particular person reviewing your page will interpret their rules, so it's best to not give them any cause to have to think/make a decision, and simply abide by their rules fully so that there can be no doubt.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

Just don't risk it would be my advice.

This, just don't use Patreon.

 

[chainedpanda]

Pretty sure Patreon itself doesn't give a damn about any fetish in particular. Rather, it was Mastercard threatening to block Patreon or something like that. I don't remember the exact cause anymore, but some credit company was involved.

Unlike what others have mentioned, I think that it's likely that there aren't any 'real' guidelines to follow. There are quite a few games out there which have survived the incest nuke and came out unscathed and still exist on the platform uncensored to this day. Not just referring to smaller devs, but some that are relatively successful 1k+ devs.

Either way, I doubt there is any "set guidelines" to follow, and just primarily about luck or "mainstream" like GoT. As others mentioned, it may be best to not take any chances. After all, it's entirely possible that the credit company could target some of the workarounds as well.

 

[Deleted member 440241]

First question: Do any of you know what the thought process was behind removing GoT as a specificly noted exception?

Second question: Can you think of any obviously permitted incest on Patreon?

To the first question, I don't work for Patreon so I obviously don't know the thought process. But I would guess that after the last season flopped GoT lost it's cultural significance and Patreon no longer felt the need to exempt it. Lolita might portray pedophilia negatively, but I'm guessing it's the fame of the story and not the actual content that made them list it as an exception to the rule. Anyone using Patreon to write a similar story would probably have a 50/50 chance of it being removed depending on who reviewed it.

For the second question, see my answer to question 1. Established stories with historical significance like Oedipus Rex would be fine. People who have been in incestuous relationships writing about how horrible it was would also probably be fine. Soft or hard core porn that graphically depicts incest, regardless of context, would have a good chance of being removed.

Pretty sure Patreon itself doesn't give a damn about any fetish in particular. Rather, it was Mastercard threatening to block Patreon or something like that. I don't remember the exact cause anymore, but some credit company was involved.

I'm pretty sure it was paypal. It wouldn't have been the first time paypal freaked out over porn.

 

[SummmerP]

Does any of you know what happens to a game if Patreon decides there's incest in it and you've broken the rules?
What's the penalty to face?

Is your (Patreon) page closed? For how long? For good?
Are subscriptions lost?
Do you get the chance to set things straight?

I thinking on risking it.
Making incest openly clear on my game.
But I need to know the consequences of being caught first.

 

[tanstaafl]

The question is do you really want to risk gaming patreon policies? It may even work for a while, letting you get a lot of work in before lowering the boom.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Does any of you know what happens to a game if Patreon decides there's incest in it and you've broken the rules?

Your page will be put under review, and stay like that until you made all the changes they require you to do.

What mean that, if it's a well crafted story, you'll have to reworks all your game. Not only the dialog lines mentioning the relationship, but everything. The girls will not anymore have the same motive to be reluctant to have sex with the MC. The MC will not think about the girls in the same way, nor have moral doubts. The dynamics between the characters will not be the same, and the reason for them to know each others, and eventually to live together will also change.
And of course, in this case you'll lost all your fan base, because the story will be too different.

But well, it can also be the basic average incest game, and like no one will really care about its story, replacing "mom" by "landlady" will be enough.

I thinking on risking it.
Making incest openly clear on my game.
But I need to know the consequences of being caught first.

Honestly ? For me you'll looks even more like an idiot than you looks by writing this.

 

[SummmerP]

Alright.

is there someone who's gone through something like that around here willing to share your story?

 

[Meaning Less]

I thinking on risking it.
Making incest openly clear on my game.
But I need to know the consequences of being caught first.

Consequences are simple, they disable your account, plenty of devs moved to subscribestar after it happened with them.

But is there even a valid reason to risk it? Just stick with the incest patch...

 

[SummmerP]

It's easier... and it feels better to write dialogues as I want them to actually sound. And to experiment on my chars' relations as they're supposed to be.
Unless of course you don't give a ratz ass about the process you're putting yourself into when writing an incestual game, being able to work on it being true sure makes things ease.

Only recently I started to flirt with the possibility of doing that... and that was because the last half a dozen openly incestual games I've found and played all have a nicely running Patreon account.

 

[Rafster]

and that was because the last half a dozen openly incestual games I've found and played all have a nicely running Patreon account.

They are lucky enough to not have any angry player to do ONE single report about them.

The moment any player report your game, say bye-bye. Don't risk it. If you have a patreon that is doing fine, it's not worth the risk. Remember, it only takes ONE single report, and you're out.