physics and textures in 3D games and comics

[pron2021]

How come certain body parts don't look and move very uh realistically in most 3D comics and 3D games ?
I mean when a character lies down on her back or side her mammary glands should be collapsed because of gravity but in most 3D comics and games they don't do that.
Not to mention nipples that look like crayons...
There are texture mods for Skyrim and Fallout that look truly amazing and almost photo realistic and physics mod that make body parts move almost realistically.
Wonder what kind of software those authors and developers use that makes their characters look so unnatural.

 

[LewdSinner]

In DAZ 3D there's options for that, but most devs don't use it knowingly or unknowingly.

Also, most players don't care.

 

[Jofur]

Most 3D games on here are made using Daz3D. My guess would be it doesn't have a very advanced physics engine, or it's hard to do. It could also be a stylistic choice, lord knows realism have never been at the top of the list when it comes to porn games. Maybe people just prefer firm perky tits.

 

[pron2021]

In DAZ 3D there's options for that, but most devs don't use it knowingly or unknowingly.

Also, most players don't care.

but its so unimmersive

Most 3D games on here are made using Daz3D. My guess would be it doesn't have a very advanced physics engine, or it's hard to do. It could also be a stylistic choice, lord knows realism have never been at the top of the list when it comes to porn games. Maybe people just prefer firm perky tits.

even the firmest and perkiest mammary glands follow the laws of physics

 

[Niv-Mizzet the Firemind]

but its so unimmersive

So? For many players (me included) it doesn't really matter as long as the rest of the render is done well.
One other problem is that if the soft body physics are done badly the results are even worse.
Lastly, too much realism sometimes leads to uncanny valley territory.

 

[pron2021]

So? For many players (me included) it doesn't really matter as long as the rest of the render is done well.
One other problem is that if the soft body physics are done badly the results are even worse.
Lastly, too much realism sometimes leads to uncanny valley territory.

Games will always be games doesn't matter how realistic they look.
Now I am not asking for photo realism just that certain body parts would look and behave somewhat realistic.
They managed to do that very well in 2D games and comics...
Pointing upwards like a pair of pyramids all the time is just weird.

 

[ppoooors]

it's only a matter of effort for the 3d artist + the time restraints. you say 2d artists do it easily but you don't know how different, difficult and time consuming it is to do it in 3d compared to 2d. for every single render they would have to go through different software to add to something that is probably not the most realistic looking render anyway, and it'll only look half decent when they have some idea of how human anatomy works.

 

[F4C430]

Also, most players don't care.

You're likely correct, but i wonder if the reason for not caring was mostly from not knowing it was possible in the first place. This was news to me, and now that i know it's possible i'm going to be disappointed from now on.

 

[rev2020]

Daz 3d is a fucked up program with lazy developers...your heard it right
the only reason most users including me use it is because it has Hot and realistic looking models (Genesis)
i have asked on the Daz 3D forum for 2 years now where the softbody physics effects are but get no response.
Blender has it and most of the other 3d programs aswell

without softbody physics the characters dont interact with the rest of the enviroment.
this is also the reason why most characaters done with Daz looks pasted into the enviroment.

There are still ways to get some sort of softbody physics with D formers/weightmaps/Meshgrabber and the new Grasp helper tool but its hard to do.
Another problem is that 90% of the games here have developers that i guess just learned Daz 3d and wants to make some fast cash.
they can pose the characters and add some dull shitty lighting but nothing more.

Effects like these with the boobs can be done but few has the time or knowledge to do it.

Collision effects on the bed here is easier to do with just D formers or weight maps with animation but few does it.
As you can see "Damon"s arms sinks into the bed here and the bed interacts with the weight and also deforms.
its rare that you see that effect in most games.

lighting like this can also be done but few get it right.
characters in most games often also looks flat 2D and too dark because of bad lighting and wrong skin/rendering settings.
proper lighting and correct settings for the skin is the key to realistic renderers that pops and has 3d depth like this one.




other examples here with real world physics effects added in Daz 3D
deformation on the couch here is done with weight maps and animation
you just "drop" the character into the couch and it deforms.

and her butt also have weighmaps that gives the effect of flatten from the gravity (easy to do with boobs aswell)


Big butt squeeze done with high resolution exported/imported OBJ files /grasp helper and D formers (on the sides)



So yeah
most of the stuff that TS wrote about can be done with Daz 3D but if you are lazy you skip it.

Learn from the best

 

[Domiek]

Daz users have to use premade morphs to try and manually recreate the illusion of soft body physics, which can be hit or miss. These morphs are generally made through sculpting, which Daz doesn't have.

The most convenient way to sculpt this manually would be with Zbrush as Daz supports a Zbrush bridge. Unfortunately that's a $600+ software, but the speed and convenience unmatched.

A free alternative would be using Blender for sculpting. This involves a more indepth know-how, moving data back and forth between the software. Devs would have to manually go through this process every time they want to fake soft body, which drastically increases preparation time per render.

Daz attempts at physics are also hit or miss from what I understand. Utilizing another software for physics simulation takes even more time and technical know-how.

With the amount of content that players expect, it's at least understandable why many devs don't bother going this route.

 

[LewdSinner]

i wonder if the reason for not caring was mostly from not knowing it was possible in the first place.

I think this is true as well.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Most 3D games on here are made using Daz3D. My guess would be it doesn't have a very advanced physics engine, or it's hard to do.

It's both.
Daz Studio's physics engine was really limited until the introduction of DForce. Even with it, there's many limitations when it come to body parts, since ideally the physics follow a domino pattern ; each part of the body have more or less influence on the way another react. By example, the boobs will not move in the same way if you raise your arms or not, and this is hard to simulate with the actual physic engine.
In the same time, there's a tons of morphs to compensate this. But here is the "hard to do" part. You need to have the right set of morphs, find the right morph in the set, then apply it with the correct value. Most devs don't even achieve/bother to make an accurate bulge in their MC pants ; how the fuck do their arm long dick fit in this prepubescent sized bulge ? Therefore, expecting them to pass time in order for their boobs to follow realistic physics, well...

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

I'm assuming you're talking about still renders and not animations.

The sorts of realistic looking deformations you're talking about can be achieved quite easily with morphs or just plain old posing. I have a set of morphs just for physics stuff that I got for free on some dude's patreon I think it was Squarepeg? (buttocks deformation for sitting, boobs hanging down or draping to the side while laying down), just playing around with those morphs is easy and you can get the result you're looking for. Simple posing can also do the trick.

So to answer your question, I think its just laziness/ignorance on part of the devs, with a little bit more effort the scenes can be made more realistic. Mesh grabber can be used to form skin depressions etc as well to go the extra mile. But if you're doing hundreds of renders per update, that "little bit of extra effort" adds up. Maybe that's why devs are hesitant. But you have to sacrifice something for extra quality at the end of the day, sooo.

Dforce in DAZ has nothing to do with this its only a clothing simulator not a soft body simulator. There ARE some addons as far as I'm aware that help with soft body stuff like boob jiggles etc but haven't tried it nor really looked into it.

Now if you were talking about animations, that's a WHOLE different ball game, Daz is straight up doodoo water for animations you're better off using something else.

Daz 3d is a fucked up program with lazy developers...your heard it right
the only reason most users including me use it is because it has Hot and realistic looking models (Genesis)
i have asked on the Daz 3D forum for 2 years now where the softbody physics effects are but get no response.
Blender has it and most of the other 3d programs aswell

without softbody physics the characters dont interact with the rest of the enviroment.
this is also the reason why most characaters done with Daz looks pasted into the enviroment.

There are still ways to get some sort of softbody physics with D formers/weightmaps/Meshgrabber and the new Grasp helper tool but its hard to do.
Another problem is that 90% of the games here have developers that i guess just learned Daz 3d and wants to make some fast cash.
they can pose the characters and add some dull shitty lighting but nothing more.

Effects like these with the boobs can be done but few has the time or knowledge to do it.

Collision effects on the bed here is easier to do with just D formers or weight maps with animation but few does it.
As you can see "Damon"s arms sinks into the bed here and the bed interacts with the weight and also deforms.
its rare that you see that effect in most games.

lighting like this can also be done but few get it right.
characters in most games often also looks flat 2D and too dark because of bad lighting and wrong skin/rendering settings.
proper lighting and correct settings for the skin is the key to realistic renderers that pops and has 3d depth like this one.


View attachment 1467280

other examples here with real world physics effects added in Daz 3D
deformation on the couch here is done with weight maps and animation
you just "drop" the character into the couch and it deforms.

and her butt also have weighmaps that gives the effect of flatten from the gravity (easy to do with boobs aswell)
View attachment 1467325

Big butt squeeze done with high resolution exported/imported OBJ files /grasp helper and D formers (on the sides)
View attachment 1467329


So yeah
most of the stuff that TS wrote about can be done with Daz 3D but if you are lazy you skip it.

Learn from the best

DUDE!!! This is some high tier stuff, Good job, especially that last butt squeeze, that looks like a really high resolution mesh .

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]

So to answer your question, I think its just laziness/ignorance on part of the devs, with a little bit more effort the scenes can be made more realistic.

This is like saying, why don't most people do their own taxes or maintenance on their car? It only takes a "little bit of extra effort" but what is easy for you may be hard for others. Many people seriously may not have the time or knowledge you take for granted. It can take years of experience and days worth of learning to be able to to make very good renders with convincing physics. It is not just "laziness/ignorance" at play here. Simply gathering content such as the proper morphs, scripts and tools can take many hours and requires learning how to properly install and use them.
While not share those custom morphs for us plebs so we can make some good renders?

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

This is like saying, why don't most people do their own taxes or maintenance on their car? It only takes a "little bit of extra effort" but what is easy for you may be hard for others. Many people seriously may not have the time or knowledge you take for granted. It can take years of experience and days worth of learning to be able to to make very good renders with convincing physics. It is not just "laziness/ignorance" at play here. Simply gathering content such as the proper morphs, scripts and tools can take many hours and requires learning how to properly install and use them.
While not share those custom morphs for us plebs so we can make some good renders?

Didn't mean it in a derogatory way. What you said in short can be summarized as laziness/ignorance/not-finding-it-worth-your-time, which is what I said . It does take time and effort, and if you're not willing to put in the time and effort then you won't get the quality you want. I already factored in that for a large number of renders "little bit of effort" can add up and maybe deter devs from doing it.

It can take years of experience and days worth of learning to be able to to make very good renders with convincing physics.

I disagree with this, because in my case all it took was a bunch of google searches and some tutorial videos and I was set. So I stand by my claim that it indeed is a little bit of effort, not much at all. Especially if you're already at the stage where you have DAZ installed and already doing renders, its just a few more steps ahead. Its not a completely new thing that you have to wrap your head around.

Simply gathering content such as the proper morphs, scripts and tools can take many hours and requires learning how to properly install and use them.

Yes that IS something that takes a while, but I was assuming that the person understands the basics of DAZ (which a dev would) and not a complete newbie, so they would at least know how to install DAZ assets. And also in my book a thing that can be learnt under a day (hours as you said), and you only have to do it once, isn't especially hard.

While not share those custom morphs for us plebs so we can make some good renders?

You must be registered to see the links

here. Funny thing is I simply asked someone here whose render I saw that had thigh squishes and they just sent me this link. Literally took a few seconds to add it and just started playing around with it. There's a bunch of other stuff here as well which you might find useful. That's all it takes man, ask others how they did it when you see something cool.

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

While not share those custom morphs for us plebs so we can make some good renders?

While here, here is mesh grabber, and this is also a great tool for deformations. But as rev2020 said there is grasp helper now which i haven't tried yet it might be better. In fact, you should look at his post, just look at his renders! And he ended his post perfectly

So yeah
most of the stuff that TS wrote about can be done with Daz 3D but if you are lazy you skip it.

Learn from the best

 

[rev2020]

While not share those custom morphs for us plebs so we can make some good renders?

i dont use custom morphs i create them with mesh grabber from scene to scene.
it gives better results and is quite easy to do.

the boob collision from the first renderer is all done with mesh grabber.
and some X Z scaling/transformation of the boob.

boobs gets bigger on the sides when they collide with something right.
dont use squeeze morphs to flatten the boobs use X and Z scaling instead and Z transformation of the pectoral to push them back.
+-3 is probably not enough so just disable limits to move the pectorals more.
this method looks far better

mesh grabber gives smooth deformation on the bodies so you dont need to export as an high res OBJ file and import it back.
just grab the butt or boobs or what ever it is until it looks realistic.
then just save it as a custom morph.
when its saved you have an new morph with slider from 0 to 100 or more if you disable limits.
great for fine tuning.

but if you want to use grasp helper you need to export the area which is affacted as an OBJ file with 2-3 subdivision level.
this is for getting those fine small pressmarks from fingers and so on. like you see in the last renderer.
you need high resolution objects for that.

and for bigger/deeper pressmarks you need to add weightmaps with animation
grasp helper only works for medium pressmarks.

Add D force dynamic surface to the body first.
then create a new dforce modifier weight node.
select the weight node and under tools select node weight map brush.
add an dforce simulation influence weights map.

there is more to it than this and i dont have time to explain it all but i think there are youtube videos for this.
paint the area which you want to deform.

you use an 30 frames animation to move the hand or what obejct you want to collide the boob to.
the influence weight map takes care of the rest as you can see from the couch renderer.

but that may not be enough
pressmarks gets quite rough even with high resolution obj files
you need an smoothing modifier but not an normal one.
use grasp helper for this.
set the boob with the influence map as an target then you can bump up smoothing iterations to 50 or more for really smooth pressmarks.


The pelvis on the last renderer is an separate high resolution object.
the rest of the body is default genesis.

phew
i dont expect an noob to understand all of this but if you use Daz 3d long enough things like these gets clear.
2.5 years ago i was also an noob at Daz 3D btw
i started to use Daz 3D in Feb 2019 with no 3d program experience before that.

 

[rev2020]

and if you want your character to deform a couch as an example you also need the correct dforce surface settings otherwise those pressmarks gets too wide or too small.
i think i can share the dforce surface settings for couches.

this is how it looks when you paint with weight maps.

its the "gravity" setting under simulation that makes the butt flatten nothing else.
if you set gravity to 0 nothing happends.

but to deform couches you must set gravity to 0

weigh map for the couch

RED color has the highest influence
Blue less affected and will deform less.

for this couch i used these simulation and surface settings.

also remember to set gravity and air resistance to 0
an general rule for couches and beds use only those that has high resolution.

the rest of the dforce surface settings for the couch.
use timeline with 30 frames and drop the character into the couch.


couch deforms also from the boobs.


its the same effect when you are squeezing boobs and butts with weighmaps.
just change the couch to an boob or butt and it will behave the same.

 

[rev2020]

for this couch instead of messing around with 100s of different dforce surface settings just to get the marks right,you can use the trick with Grasp Helper and smoothing modifier.
add the couch as the target and adjust smoothing iterations until those marks looks smooth and round enough.
i didnt know that a few months ago

a much faster way to deform couches and beds is to just use Dformers.
i have an guide about it somewhere here...checking..

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

rev2020 These are very valuable tips, you should start a thread in Dev Tools and Guides and post this all there as well for tips on high quality renders.