[POLL] Are lewd games, text and art the most moral way to consume pornography?

[besre]

I'm really curious what our niche community thinks about this topic, thank you.

 

[Hagatagar]

What do you mean by moral way?

 

[Glorified_ignorance]

I assume you're asking this out of personal curiosity, not for some hidden agenda, correct?

Because otherwise, no matter how I look at it, it makes no sense. The question.

Pornography ≠ moral way

 

[morphnet]

what moral standard are you using? your poll is pretty vague too, it would help if you were more specific in phrasing your question.

 

[besre]

What do you mean by moral way?

what moral standard are you using?

Whatever you feel is more moral.

I assume you're asking this out of personal curiosity, not for some hidden agenda, correct?

Because otherwise, no matter how I look at it, it makes no sense. The question.

Pornography ≠ moral way

I'm merely asking, not telling.

What do you mean "Pornography ≠ moral way", you'd put them in the same basket? Interesting you don't find one more immoral than the other, (I'd understand if you said both are moral, but not both immoral)

 

[morphnet]

Whatever you feel is more moral.

You still are not being clear, so I'll go with...

yes

no

maybe

 

[Glorified_ignorance]

I'm merely asking, not telling.

What do you mean "Pornography ≠ moral way", you'd put them in the same basket? Interesting you don't find one more immoral than the other, (I'd understand if you said both are moral, but not both immoral)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No because pornography is not equal to morally good (Pornography ≠ morally good),
no matter what shape it is presented or consumed.

+1 to what morphnet said.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Obviously not consuming porn at all is the most moral way to consume porn under a lot of moral frameworks.

 

[uspfur]

What they're implying is that if the art is drawn or 3D modeled, then no real person is actually being hurt by it. No one gets trafficked into writing porn stories or drawing lewd art.

You could argue that consuming lots of this type of porn changes your perception of reality or expectations, in a way that could make you less moral in the long run, but I'm not sure if that's quantifiable.

For people saying "pornography ≠ morally good," that's not what's being asked here. What's being asked is if drawn porn is the most moral.

If all moral things are on a scale from 0 to 100, IRL porn is in the realm of 0 to 5, and drawn porn is at a 6, then you would say it is more moral, even though on the larger scale it's still very immoral.

(I'm not even arguing that it's immoral, that's just an example.)

 

[GNVE]

There is a lot to unpack in the question and the sentence "No. Any pornography made by consenting adults is as moral as any other."
1) Why would/should it be unmoral to consume porn in any way? In the US nudity is far more controversial then in other (western) countries. While (being in) porn isn't fully accepted anywhere to my knowledge there are levels of acceptance.
2) Does subject matter of the work matter? What if the drawing/text/VN is of the most gruesome sexual depiction you can imagine while the porn movie is just a couple in their 30's having 'boring' regular sex.
3) How should a viewer be able to discern between a consenting and non-consenting adult?
4) for some porn is pretty much the only sex-ed they have access to you. This is more of a failing of the system as a whole but it might still be important for them to view porn as it might help them in some way.
5) Does it matter if the viewer is paying for porn while not paying for VN/Art/Text?
6) Does it matter that through savvy marketing, business decisions, licencing etc the porn star is now a multi millionaire (there are a few even if unlikely on the whole) while the viewer is living under the poverty line?

7) What is a adult? In most western countries you can be in porn when you turn 18. but that doesn't mean you are an adult for the law. In the US for example you need to be 21 to drink or smoke. While in my country you have a lot of 'adult' rights at 16 which used to include being able to be in porn (this was banned in the 2000's somewhere but you can still pay to have sex at 16 you just can't be payed). Physiologically however your brain will not stop developing until you turn 25.
The line of 18 is arbitrary and a case could be made to lower it slightly or raise it all the way up to 25.
Even the whole concept of child as we think of it is relatively new. It is not that long ago that children were thought of as mini adults who could be sent off to work the land, in factories, or the mines.
8) Also what is consenting? I mean how much consent are you able to give if you live in the US and have 500K or more in student and medical debt combined? And even if you can how able is any person to fully oversee the consequences of their actions. Being in a porn movie might feel anonymous (there must be millions right now) but how certain are you that people you know don't find out. Let alone how they'll react.
9) does intelligence come into play anywhere? Is someone with an IQ of over 130 better able to consent than someone with an IQ just above 80?
10) Does education come into it? Is someone better able to oversee the consequences when they have a PHD as opposed to someone having only finished primary school?

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

 

[Rafster]

Uh, if we were talking about morality, we wouldn't be doing it in a PIRATE (not moral) site of PORN (not moral) games.

 

[besre]

There is a lot to unpack in the question and the sentence "No. Any pornography made by consenting adults is as moral as any other."
1) Why would/should it be unmoral to consume porn in any way? In the US nudity is far more controversial then in other (western) countries. While (being in) porn isn't fully accepted anywhere to my knowledge there are levels of acceptance.
2) Does subject matter of the work matter? What if the drawing/text/VN is of the most gruesome sexual depiction you can imagine while the porn movie is just a couple in their 30's having 'boring' regular sex.
3) How should a viewer be able to discern between a consenting and non-consenting adult?
4) for some porn is pretty much the only sex-ed they have access to you. This is more of a failing of the system as a whole but it might still be important for them to view porn as it might help them in some way.
5) Does it matter if the viewer is paying for porn while not paying for VN/Art/Text?
6) Does it matter that through savvy marketing, business decisions, licencing etc the porn star is now a multi millionaire (there are a few even if unlikely on the whole) while the viewer is living under the poverty line?

7) What is a adult? In most western countries you can be in porn when you turn 18. but that doesn't mean you are an adult for the law. In the US for example you need to be 21 to drink or smoke. While in my country you have a lot of 'adult' rights at 16 which used to include being able to be in porn (this was banned in the 2000's somewhere but you can still pay to have sex at 16 you just can't be payed). Physiologically however your brain will not stop developing until you turn 25.
The line of 18 is arbitrary and a case could be made to lower it slightly or raise it all the way up to 25.
Even the whole concept of child as we think of it is relatively new. It is not that long ago that children were thought of as mini adults who could be sent off to work the land, in factories, or the mines.
8) Also what is consenting? I mean how much consent are you able to give if you live in the US and have 500K or more in student and medical debt combined? And even if you can how able is any person to fully oversee the consequences of their actions. Being in a porn movie might feel anonymous (there must be millions right now) but how certain are you that people you know don't find out. Let alone how they'll react.
9) does intelligence come into play anywhere? Is someone with an IQ of over 130 better able to consent than someone with an IQ just above 80?
10) Does education come into it? Is someone better able to oversee the consequences when they have a PHD as opposed to someone having only finished primary school?

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

1) More demand for real porn = more supply, and supply means more women getting bad treatment in the porn industry, never mind the alleged immorality of renting your intimate body parts to the public for money.

In lewd games and art you don't have this problem. I won't have a problem if my hypothetical daughter did erotic voice over for a lewd game, but I'd have a problem if she was getting gang banged for a living.

2) I don't think it matters (but I'm leaving door open for exceptions), take GTA5 for example where you can be a literal serial killer and a mass murderer.

3) As any other business, regulations and law, and trust in the law.

4) I don't think this makes any sense in practice, if you can watch porn which is video heavy, you can google text and/or images.

5) No. Or you mean piracy? I'll talk about this in a reply to the below poster.

6) That's 0.00001% of porn actresses, but a fair question, needs pondering for this outlier of cases.

7) Outliers don't matter here really, and if they do they can be addressed.

8-10) Those really don't matter, unless you want to make the case that if the most mature and intelligent person consented to doing porn it would actually be moral to consume that porn.

They are not ramblings, you've thought about many scenarios, and in my view you can think of many more, how does doing porn impact your self, your family, friend and society, long term, short term, etc and etc

Uh, if we were talking about morality, we wouldn't be doing it in a PIRATE (not moral) site of PORN (not moral) games.

Now taking porn aside, I'm not sure Piracy is outright immoral. Stealing is immoral in most cases yes, but piracy isn't de facto stealing.

I think of it as free advertisement.

Take for example your game and that it costs e.g $10, people from my second world country just can't afford to pay for this, but if somehow million of them pirated it would you be better off as a producer or worse?

Of course you'd be better, they'd advertise the game (by word of mouth on the internet, like we all do here) to people who can actually afford the game, people who'd actually can afford to support your Patreon, etc and etc.

And take example GTA5 they gave it for free for weeks during covid is one of the the most pirated game ever and it made like $10 billions of dollars revenue.

 

[Lucian Tempter]

I tend stay away from real porn these days. I yearn for something more authentic and wholesome, you know, something a bit more repetitiveness of a healthy relationship. I feel like lots of us are here exactly because real porn no longer offers what it may once used to (for whatever reason), but I can't speak for anyone else.

I've seen too many brace-faced, freshly 18, otherwise respectable young girls, who've made one bad decision (drugs, money, hanging around the wrong people, bad boyfriend etc.) and now end up being painfully screwed by some fat nasty ass ghetto black man who keeps calling her his baby girl while she gives a deadpan , soulless look, and a rehearsed, emotionless "ohhh fuck me daddy" every minute or so. That shit makes me feel ill man.

The fakeness of porn and the realization that I'm just watching a well paid whore give a performance until she moves on to the 5th cock that day has ruined the whole thing for me.

Oh and on a side note, if you want may patronage, BRAZZERS, step up your fucking game. You've always been the cheapest, tackiest, Wallmart-tier porn in the game, but fucking a hair bun? Really? Your adds downgrade my chub every time I have the misfortune of accidentally glancing at them you tasteless fucks. And STOP shoving these whales with their wrinkly ass fat rolls down my throat: THEY AREN'T HOT, never were, never will be.

LUCIAN OUT.

 

[morphnet]

What they're implying is that if the art is drawn or 3D modeled, then no real person is actually being hurt by it. No one gets trafficked into writing porn stories or drawing lewd art.

When the robots take over and become our overlords, I see this being used in your skynet trial

On a serious note though....

You could argue that consuming lots of this type of porn changes your perception of reality or expectations, in a way that could make you less moral in the long run, but I'm not sure if that's quantifiable.

Except that porn is made for peoples "fantasies" so the so called moral bar is already set because people would still fantasize about milf's, stewardesses, or a bus full of cheerleaders even if they didn't make porn about them.

For people saying "pornography ≠ morally good," that's not what's being asked here. What's being asked is if drawn porn is the most moral.

As no moral standard was given, saying pornography ≠ morally good is correct as no porn is moral no matter the form or shape it takes. If OP had been more clear on what moral standard was being used to judge, it might be a different story.

If all moral things are on a scale from 0 to 100, IRL porn is in the realm of 0 to 5, and drawn porn is at a 6, then you would say it is more moral, even though on the larger scale it's still very immoral.

Again, what moral standard are you using for the 0-100? there are moral standards out there with zero tolerance to porn, meaning ANY porn would never make it on to the scale in the first place. Hence why, with out knowing what standard is being used pornography ≠ morally is the most correct answer.

1) More demand for real porn = more supply, and supply means more women getting bad treatment in the porn industry, never mind the alleged immorality of renting your intimate body parts to the public for money.

These are legal and economic issues not moral ones. You are also not taking into account amateur porn / erotica.

In lewd games and art you don't have this problem. I won't have a problem if my hypothetical daughter did erotic voice over for a lewd game, but I'd have a problem if she was getting gang banged for a living.

Except for the game the use real porn?

If you are ok with your hypothetical daughter doing voice overs for game then are you ok with her camming? There she is not getting gang banged and can do it from the safety of her home?

2) I don't think it matters (but I'm leaving door open for exceptions), take GTA5 for example where you can be a literal serial killer and a mass murderer.

Violence is glorified and IS added to most moral scales unlike sex. So that is not really a good example.

3) As any other business, regulations and law, and trust in the law.

This would be less than useless and could do more harm than good in the beginning and WOULD do more harm than good if it were to grow to corporation business levels.

4) I don't think this makes any sense in practice, if you can watch porn which is video heavy, you can google text and/or images.

It does makes sense actually, there are edu-porn creators out there and they have been credited with helping many. The lover's guide is one good example.

5-10 do not apply

None of this has addressed morality though, only social, legal and economic aspects. It hasn't addressed whether porn has caused the moral fiber of communities or nations to fall or rise and the impacts that fall or rise has made, it hasn't addressed any moral shift or what changed that shift might bring etc. etc.
Until we know what moral standard to apply we are just shooting in the dark.

Now taking porn aside, I'm not sure Piracy is outright immoral. Stealing is immoral in most cases yes, but piracy isn't de facto stealing.

Here again, you have not told us what moral standard/s you are using. In your above reply you are applying your personal morality to pirating. Depending on who's standard you use, pirating is very immoral, not really immoral, or very moral.

For some it is very immoral as pirates are taking food out of the mouths of those who created the product.
For some it is not really immoral because they view it as try before buy.
For some it is very moral because companies are taking advantage of consumers price wise, defective products, DLC's etc.

If you don't tell us what moral standard you want us to use, we can't answer your question accurately.

A last note, if you are using a combination of moral standards shared around the world then in most, porn is immoral and the answer...

Pornography ≠ moral way

is correct.

If you are asking for us to apply our personal morality then my answer....

yes

no

maybe

is correct, reference my response to pirating.

 

[besre]

These are legal and economic issues not moral ones. You are also not taking into account amateur porn / erotica.

They are both. Also not mutually exclusive.

Except for the game the use real porn?

If you are ok with your hypothetical daughter doing voice overs for game then are you ok with her camming? There she is not getting gang banged and can do it from the safety of her home?

Or you could perhaps read between the lines and understand we're talking about drawings, animations, text and audio here.

And, no I wouldn't be okay with her camming and revealing her intimate parts to the public community. You would?

I have no problem if you want to jerk off to porn/cams but have no problem with your daughter/mother doing porn/cams. That's not hypocritical.

Violence is glorified and IS added to most moral scales unlike sex. So that is not really a good example.

I disagree, GTA5 has brought more good than bad in this world, millions of millions of players were entertained at high level.

This would be less than useless and could do more harm than good in the beginning and WOULD do more harm than good if it were to grow to corporation business levels.

Assuming you claim porn is immoral, of course, corporations are known to be efficient.

It does makes sense actually, there are edu-porn creators out there and they have been credited with helping many. The lover's guide is one good example.

People can be educated on safe sex with a few images and text, there is no need for people to be showing their intimate parts to the community.

None of this has addressed morality though, only social, legal and economic aspects. It hasn't addressed whether porn has caused the moral fiber of communities or nations to fall or rise and the impacts that fall or rise has made, it hasn't addressed any moral shift or what changed that shift might bring etc. etc.
Until we know what moral standard to apply we are just shooting in the dark.

How do you even function in your daily life without a moral compass?

Who do you ask before making a decision on what the moral standard is?

Or you have a moral compass? If you do then you can perhaps answer the Qs.

For some it is very immoral as pirates are taking food out of the mouths of those who created the product.

See this can't be immoral (by their own rationale) cause online pirates aren't taking food from anyone.
Solid case can be made is that they bring food to the creator.

Because the Q is whether overall pirates dissuade people from financially supporting the creator or actually help the creator in finding more people to support him.

And as I already said, pirates are giving free advertisement for the product.
That free advertisement is worth more than the money lost from actual buyers who would be dissuaded from paying for the product.
You're a poster on f95 zone, you see creators get money from Patreon, and you get money there from exposure, not from your product being hidden behind a paywall.

For some it is very moral because companies are taking advantage of consumers price wise, defective products, DLC's etc.

For all the reasons to pirate this is the most wrong one and hypocritical.
If you're dissatisfied with the product you should boycott it not consume it.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I suppose so. Real-porn doesn't have to be unethical of course, as long as everyone is a consenting adult and the work environment is safe. Which as a consumer of real-porn (mostly pro stuff but also amateur), you can never be sure of unless you were there when it was being filmed.

 

[besre]

I suppose so. Real-porn doesn't have to be unethical of course, as long as everyone is a consenting adult and the work environment is safe. Which as a consumer of real-porn (mostly pro stuff but also amateur), you can never be sure of unless you were there when it was being filmed.

Since you're a real-porn consumer, just curious would you be okay with your daughter/sister/mother doing porn if you were sure the 'environment was safe'?

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Since you're a real-porn consumer, just curious would you be okay with your daughter/sister/mother doing porn if you were sure the 'environment was safe'?

1. I don't care for real-porn, for the most part. Much prefer 3dcg and animated 2d / 3d over ugly meatspace graphics; pro-porn is especially boring and fake.
2. They can do whatever they want with their own bodies, not my business.

 

[ruziy]

Mandatory quote from the Salvor Hardin: "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"

 

[obibobi]

You put practically no effort into the OP but yes, fictional porn isn't any different than any other fiction, real porn on the other hand will often have the same moral issues as child pornographic, exploitation of a real person.

I don't mean exploitation in a porn is icky sort of way, I mean that the women often come from abusive backgrounds or depending on area, practically forced to do it. It's not a job women dream of doing and it will carry a stigma that no amount of going "sex work" can remove.