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Porn Game Tropes: The good, the bad, and the fugly

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Volta

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,034
1,181
The Implausible Reason to Fuck(IRF)
This is actually a trope common to almost all porn/erotica. Especially true in incest games. Sure, Mom has sociocultural conditioning, religious and moral values and millenia of evo psych telling her that fucking her son is wrong and feels wrong, but she's super horny or she saw his huge cock or he's been so nice to her lately or she's just doing it to help him get over it. Etc. Basically, lots of characters don't have really good reasons to hop in bed with the MC(who may be much younger, a complete stranger, a blood relative, a student in their class and so forth), but the dev has to throw out something remotely plausible in order to move things along.
Examples: too numerous to mention
Which is why context and backstory are important, now i could believe a teacher would screw their student if there had been a few months of subtle flirting going on beforehand, but i don't think anyone wants to play 6 months of a game just to get one scene, it's one of those limitations of the format sort of things, but a good writer can sell it with context and build up early in the game.

Basically even "porn logic" needs backing up with a story.
 

Deleted member 229118

Active Member
Oct 3, 2017
799
976
The Implausible Reason to Fuck(IRF)
This is actually a trope common to almost all porn/erotica. Especially true in incest games. Sure, Mom has sociocultural conditioning, religious and moral values and millenia of evo psych telling her that fucking her son is wrong and feels wrong, but she's super horny or she saw his huge cock or he's been so nice to her lately or she's just doing it to help him get over it. Etc. Basically, lots of characters don't have really good reasons to hop in bed with the MC(who may be much younger, a complete stranger, a blood relative, a student in their class and so forth), but the dev has to throw out something remotely plausible in order to move things along.
Examples: too numerous to mention
Which is why i like mind control stories.
It is far more believeable(not realistic but believeable) that you reprogramme someone into agreeing to be a fucktoy.
 

IdleGuy

Member
Aug 7, 2016
417
541
Well this thread's interesting. Can I chime in?

20 Going on 12

This girl, canonically somewhere between 18 and 22, is feeling attracted to MC. She is, however, totally and utterly clueless about sex in every shape or form. "Is that his penis? I've never seen one!" She says under her breath while being 19 or so in the 21st century and therefore has to have endured at least 2-3 years of sex-ed/biology in High School and have had access to the internet and literally hundreds of hours of porn. "I've never touched one!" She cries out during the v0.4 handjob despite having a bod that would make Kate Moss jealous and therefore would realistically need industrial-grade machinery to swat off all the guys who'd go after her during her life. For these girls to act the way they do they would realistically A) be so sheltered to the point that it would make the Amish seem sexually provocative or B) be severely mentally retarded. Of course, they could also be 13 - they might sometimes even look 13! But of course they aren't. They're 18+! Pinky swear!

Of course, often these go paired with:

What do you mean I'm not modestly dressed?

What to wear, what to wear? Oh, I know! A short tank top and daisy dukes! The perfect attire for school/college, a stroll through the park or a trip to the store. Can't wear that for work, though. Heavens no. In those cases, only a small blouse and short skirt, with uncomfortably high stillettos will do! If neither of those look appropiate, you can always go for the V-neck dress showing a welcoming amount of boob. This is just everyday girl's wear. Honest! I mean, you rarely ever see any girls dressed as such in real life except in the club or very hot days in summer, but it's really common!

What's even weirder is that no woman is ever pushed to wear this. They usually do this by their own volition and don't see this as weird. Not that they should, but the fact that they're otherwise so prude feels quite disjointed.

----------------------

The NTR scenario

Now you may have noticed that NTR is a pretty popular genre. You want in on this money-train. Now, a good NTR will involve either a suave amoral male character seducing a woman and slowly chipping at her moral character until she makes the ultimate betrayal or a woman slowly coming to grips with her repressed sexuality and losing her moral compass by seeking out further and further illicit thrills. Or both in varying degrees of success.

The problem is, you are like most people and can neither write a good seduction for shit nor understand a woman's psyche enough to compellingly write about her drive to betraying her SO. That's not a problem though, this is porn! The bar is set low enough that it must be legally filed under tripping hazards, so you can always rely on either of these hackneyed tropes - depending on whether you're (writing for a) Japanese (audience) or English:

Japanese: Step 1) BLACKMAIL, Step 2) COCK-HUNGRY SLUT

So you've caught this unassuming girl doing some naughty things with her boyfriend. Great! Time to take some pics and confront her with them. The fact that these pics could be leaked to her peers or family is apparently so harrowing to the girl that she's willing to do anything - and I do mean anything - to make sure they don't get spread (even though you are technically commiting a grave sexual felony and in any 1st world country you'd be under criminal trial faster than it'd take to read this sentence but anyway). That's right, 10 minutes (video or game) or 2 pages (book) in, you'll be balls-deep inside this chick. Half an hour or 4 pages later and she's got nipple-clamps on and everything.

Best of all, through the addictive power of your magnum dong, she'll be wanting more within minutes/hours/days. Yes, you've been blessed with a poppy cock spreading opiate jizz because before long this girl will have completely forgotten why she hung our with her loser boyfriend and want nothing more than fuck all day 'n' night for the rest of her life!

Unless, of course, you don't come across the girl engaged in sexual activities. No worries, though, there's a fix for that! Just RAPE her! Not only can you have sex faster, but you can record it and hang the evidence over her head to force her into more sex! Conveniently forgetting that if you ever did spread the evidence of you blatantly raping an unwilling participant you'd be on the bottom bunk of some hardened polyamorous prison thug within days.
Your sexual prowess will do the rest of the work!

None of this is necessary either if you come across some magic McGuffin that skips all this nonsense and just immediately turns your victim in a dick-slurping slut. Yes, be it secret love potions, talismans, magic watches, Bill Cosby-sponsored roofies, you name it! There's bound to be something out there that turns any woman in your personal fucktoy in a flick of the wrist!


English: The BIG BLACK COCK Syndrome

Oh no! You're less than well-endowed and your SO isn't too happy about it. In fact, she's not really happy about anything you do. She secretly thinks you're a loser but stays with you for your money. Emotionally manipulative and sexually unresponsive. Until that fateful day, of course, that she lays her eyes on some BIG BLACK COCK. Everything goes out the window. Not that there was much to begin with, it's doubtful there was ever really any love in this relationship as she's as (borderline) abusive as it comes, but trust me. She'll immediately realise you for the LOSER you are as that black stallion let's her see what she's been missing out on. You realise this too, as comparing members you know in your heart there's no place for you in this interracial world and you might as well accept that seeing every girl you ever loved bred by a black dude is just your destined fate.

Of course, there's one aspect of this trope that also deserves some closer examination. Indeed, it's the third party, it's...

Trust me, I know about the blacks - I watched blaxploitation flicks!

To have some cringy interracial NTR you, of course, need the other race. Thing is, you don't know many black people in real life. Not to worry, you can always rely on other works (chiefly interracial porn on the internet, old gangsta rap lyrics you vaguely remember and 11 year olds pretending to be black on the internet) to characterise them. Yes, these people aren't just black, they's fucking Jive! Bonus points if their name starts with "Ty" like Tyrone, Tyreese. Otherwise Jamal, Marcus works too. Or go for those stereotypical ghetto names like Daquan or anything with a apostrophe like T'shawn. Go full 70s blaxploitation on their vernacular too. Good examples include:

"Ay yo where the white women at"
"This white bitch needs some of this black dick"
"Shut up bitch and put dem lips around my cock"
"These bitches be cray"


That's right. Use "bitch" wherever you can. Use outdated lingo you picked up from songs (cray, lit, ...). Emphasise the blackness of this character with every sentence to remind us that this is interracial. Use vaguely racist abbreviations and contractions you think black people talk like. Otherwise, we might forget about the stellar writing of this piece of art!

----------------------

I'll add images later.
 
Last edited:

Burt Reynolds Mustache

Well-Known Member
Modder
Donor
Game Developer
Jul 19, 2017
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Well this thread's interesting. Can I chime in?

20 Going on 12

This girl, canonically somewhere between 18 and 22, is feeling attracted to MC. She is, however, totally and utterly clueless about sex in every shape or form. "Is that his penis? I've never seen one!" She says under her breath while being 19 or so in the 21st century and therefore has to have endured at least 2-3 years of sex-ed/biology in High School and have had access to the internet and literally hundreds of hours of porn. "I've never touched one!" She cries out during the v0.4 handjob despite having a bod that would make Kate Moss jealous and therefore would realistically need industrial-grade machinery to swat off all the guys who'd go after her during her life. For these girls to act the way they do they would realistically A) be so sheltered to the point that it would make the Amish seem sexually provocative or B) be severely mentally retarded. Of course, they could also be 13 - they might sometimes even look 13! But of course they aren't. They're 18+! Pinky swear!

Of course, often these go paired with:

What do you mean I'm not modestly dressed?

What to wear, what to wear? Oh, I know! A short tank top and daisy dukes! The perfect attire for school/college, a stroll through the park or a trip to the store. Can't wear that for work, though. Heavens no. In those cases, only a small blouse and short skirt, with uncomfortably high stillettos will do! If that neither of those look appropiate, you can always go for the V-neck dress showing a welcoming amount of boob. This is just everyday girl's wear. Honest! I mean, you rarely ever see any girls dressed as such in real life except in the club or very hot days in summer, but it's really common!

What's even weirder is that no woman is ever pushed to wear this. They usually do this by their own volition and don't see this as weird. Not that they should, but the fact that they're otherwise so prude feels quite disjointed.

----------------------

The NTR scenario

Now you may have noticed that NTR is a pretty popular genre. You want in on this money-train. Now, a good NTR will involve either a suave amoral male character seducing a woman and slowly chipping at her moral character until she makes the ultimate betrayal or a woman slowly coming to grips with her repressed sexuality and losing her moral compass by seeking out further and further illicit thrills. Or both in varying degrees of success.

The problem is, you are like most people and can neither write a good seduction for shit nor understand a woman's psyche enough to compellingly write about her drive to betraying her SO. That's not a problem though, this is porn! The bar is set low enough that it must be legally filed under tripping hazards, so you can always rely on either of these hackneyed tropes - depending on whether you're (writing for a) Japanese (audience) or English:

Japanese: Step 1) BLACKMAIL, Step 2) COCK-HUNGRY SLUT

So you've caught this unassuming girl doing some naughty things with her boyfriend. Great! Time to take some pics and confront her with them. The fact that these pics could be leaked to her peers or family is apparently so harrowing to the girl that she's willing to do anything - and I do mean anything - to make sure they don't get spread (even though you are technically commiting a grave sexual felony and in any 1st world country you'd be under criminal trial faster than it'd take to read this sentence but anyway). That's right, 10 minutes (video or game) or 2 pages (book) in, you'll be balls-deep inside this chick. Half an hour or 4 pages later and she's got nipple-clamps on and everything.

Best of all, through the addictive power of your magnum dong, she'll be wanting more within minutes/hours/days. Yes, you've been blessed with a poppy cock spreading opiate jizz because before long this girl will have completely forgotten why she hung our with her loser boyfriend and want nothing more than fuck all day 'n' night for the rest of her life!

Unless, of course, you don't come across the girl engaged in sexual activities. No worries, though, there's a fix for that! Just RAPE her! Not only can you have sex faster, but you can record it and hang the evidence over her head to force her into more sex! Conveniently forgetting that if you ever did spread the evidence of you blatantly raping an unwilling participant you'd be on the bottom bunk of some hardened polyamorous prison thug within days.
Your sexual prowess will do the rest of the work!

None of this is necessary either if you come across some magic McGuffin that skips all this nonsense and just immediately turns your victim in a dick-slurping slut. Yes, be it secret love potions, talismans, magic watches, Bill Cosby-sponsored roofies, you name it! There's bound to be something out there that turns any woman in your personal fucktoy in a flick of the wrist!


English: The BIG BLACK COCK Syndrome

Oh no! You're less than well-endowed and your SO isn't too happy about it. In fact, she's not really happy about anything you do. She secretly thinks you're a loser but stays with you for your money. Emotionally manipulative and sexually unresponsive. Until that fateful day, of course, that she lays her eyes on some BIG BLACK COCK. Everything goes out the window. Not that there was much to begin with, it's doubtful there was ever really any love in this relationship as she's as (borderline) abusive as it comes, but trust me. She'll immediately realise you for the LOSER you are as that black stallion let's her see what she's been missing out on. You realise this too, as comparing members you know in your heart there's no place for you in this interracial world and you might as well accept that seeing every girl you ever loved bred by a black dude is just your destined fate.

Of course, there's one aspect of this trope that also deserves some closer examination. Indeed, it's the third party, it's...

Trust me, I know about the blacks - I watched blaxploitation flicks!

To have some cringy interracial NTR you, of course, need the other race. Thing is, you don't know many black people in real life. Not to worry, you can always rely on other works (chiefly interracial porn on the internet, old gangsta rap lyrics you vaguely remember and 11 year olds pretending to be black on the internet) to characterise them. Yes, these people aren't just black, they's fucking Jive! Bonus points if their name starts with "Ty" like Tyrone, Tyreese. Otherwise Jamal, Marcus works too. Or go for those stereotypical ghetto names like Daquan or anything with a apostrophe like T'shawn. Go full 70s blaxploitation on their vernacular too. Good examples include:

"Ay yo where the white women at"
"This white bitch needs some of this black dick"
"Shut up bitch and put dem lips around my cock"
"These bitches be cray"


That's right. Use "bitch" wherever you can. Use outdated lingo you picked up from songs (cray, lit, ...). Emphasise the blackness of this character with every sentence to remind us that this is interracial. Use vaguely racist abbreviations and contractions you think black people talk like. Otherwise, we might forget about the stellar writing of this piece of art!

----------------------

I'll add images later.
Even though there is a good chance my NTR stuff might fall under this, I must say, hats off to you! In my defense I do very much try to keep Robert as realistic as possible, with possibly a slight overuse of bitch, and a'ight... though his speech patterns are based off of a friend of mine who might be the whitest man in existence. The generic black dude was on my list whenever I got the time, but now I have no need to touch it, you did it better than I could. Bravo though. Sereiously great fucking post! Only thing is there may be a bit of overlap on 20 going on 12 with the Eighteen trope.
 

IdleGuy

Member
Aug 7, 2016
417
541
Even though there is a good chance my NTR stuff might fall under this, I must say, hats off to you! In my defense I do very much try to keep Robert as realistic as possible, with possibly a slight overuse of bitch, and a'ight... though his speech patterns are based off of a friend of mine who might be the whitest man in existence. The generic black dude was on my list whenever I got the time, but now I have no need to touch it, you did it better than I could. Bravo though. Sereiously great fucking post! Only thing is there may be a bit of overlap on 20 going on 12 with the Eighteen trope.
I noticed that reading through this thread but I needed it to segue to the modest character, immodestly dressed trope.
Almost all of those prude characters seem to wear this sexually provocative outfit at one point. Now I know fashion is a choice, but it seems fairly incongruous for every woman to do it. Even IRL sluts rarely wear short tank tops and miniskirts, but it seems par for the course for porn games.

Especially noticeable if they wear it while in college. Now I went to college and I'm fairly sure wearing tank tops and daisy dukes is against protocol, or at least discouraged. Maybe at a party, but not during class. Yet look at any game in a college setting and there they are...
 
Last edited:

Burt Reynolds Mustache

Well-Known Member
Modder
Donor
Game Developer
Jul 19, 2017
1,899
4,053
I noticed that reading through this thread but I needed it to segue to the modest character, unmodestly dressed trope.
Almost all of those prude characters seem to wear this sexually provocative outfit at one point. Now I know fashion is a choice, but it seems fairly incongruous for every woman to do it. Even IRL sluts rarely wear short tank tops and miniskirts, but it seems par for the course for porn games.

Especially noticeable if they wear it while in college. Now I went to college and I'm fairly sure wearing tank tops and daisy dukes is against protocol, or at least discouraged. Maybe at a party, but not during class. Yet look at any game in a college setting and there they are...
Someone's never gone to college in Miami. :D Ah, good times.
 
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hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
583
Well this thread's interesting. Can I chime in?

20 Going on 12

This girl, canonically somewhere between 18 and 22, is feeling attracted to MC. She is, however, totally and utterly clueless about sex in every shape or form. "Is that his penis? I've never seen one!" She says under her breath while being 19 or so in the 21st century and therefore has to have endured at least 2-3 years of sex-ed/biology in High School and have had access to the internet and literally hundreds of hours of porn. "I've never touched one!" She cries out during the v0.4 handjob despite having a bod that would make Kate Moss jealous and therefore would realistically need industrial-grade machinery to swat off all the guys who'd go after her during her life. For these girls to act the way they do they would realistically A) be so sheltered to the point that it would make the Amish seem sexually provocative or B) be severely mentally retarded. Of course, they could also be 13 - they might sometimes even look 13! But of course they aren't. They're 18+! Pinky swear!

Of course, often these go paired with:

What do you mean I'm not modestly dressed?

What to wear, what to wear? Oh, I know! A short tank top and daisy dukes! The perfect attire for school/college, a stroll through the park or a trip to the store. Can't wear that for work, though. Heavens no. In those cases, only a small blouse and short skirt, with uncomfortably high stillettos will do! If neither of those look appropiate, you can always go for the V-neck dress showing a welcoming amount of boob. This is just everyday girl's wear. Honest! I mean, you rarely ever see any girls dressed as such in real life except in the club or very hot days in summer, but it's really common!

What's even weirder is that no woman is ever pushed to wear this. They usually do this by their own volition and don't see this as weird. Not that they should, but the fact that they're otherwise so prude feels quite disjointed.

----------------------

The NTR scenario

Now you may have noticed that NTR is a pretty popular genre. You want in on this money-train. Now, a good NTR will involve either a suave amoral male character seducing a woman and slowly chipping at her moral character until she makes the ultimate betrayal or a woman slowly coming to grips with her repressed sexuality and losing her moral compass by seeking out further and further illicit thrills. Or both in varying degrees of success.

The problem is, you are like most people and can neither write a good seduction for shit nor understand a woman's psyche enough to compellingly write about her drive to betraying her SO. That's not a problem though, this is porn! The bar is set low enough that it must be legally filed under tripping hazards, so you can always rely on either of these hackneyed tropes - depending on whether you're (writing for a) Japanese (audience) or English:

Japanese: Step 1) BLACKMAIL, Step 2) COCK-HUNGRY SLUT

So you've caught this unassuming girl doing some naughty things with her boyfriend. Great! Time to take some pics and confront her with them. The fact that these pics could be leaked to her peers or family is apparently so harrowing to the girl that she's willing to do anything - and I do mean anything - to make sure they don't get spread (even though you are technically commiting a grave sexual felony and in any 1st world country you'd be under criminal trial faster than it'd take to read this sentence but anyway). That's right, 10 minutes (video or game) or 2 pages (book) in, you'll be balls-deep inside this chick. Half an hour or 4 pages later and she's got nipple-clamps on and everything.

Best of all, through the addictive power of your magnum dong, she'll be wanting more within minutes/hours/days. Yes, you've been blessed with a poppy cock spreading opiate jizz because before long this girl will have completely forgotten why she hung our with her loser boyfriend and want nothing more than fuck all day 'n' night for the rest of her life!

Unless, of course, you don't come across the girl engaged in sexual activities. No worries, though, there's a fix for that! Just RAPE her! Not only can you have sex faster, but you can record it and hang the evidence over her head to force her into more sex! Conveniently forgetting that if you ever did spread the evidence of you blatantly raping an unwilling participant you'd be on the bottom bunk of some hardened polyamorous prison thug within days.
Your sexual prowess will do the rest of the work!

None of this is necessary either if you come across some magic McGuffin that skips all this nonsense and just immediately turns your victim in a dick-slurping slut. Yes, be it secret love potions, talismans, magic watches, Bill Cosby-sponsored roofies, you name it! There's bound to be something out there that turns any woman in your personal fucktoy in a flick of the wrist!


English: The BIG BLACK COCK Syndrome

Oh no! You're less than well-endowed and your SO isn't too happy about it. In fact, she's not really happy about anything you do. She secretly thinks you're a loser but stays with you for your money. Emotionally manipulative and sexually unresponsive. Until that fateful day, of course, that she lays her eyes on some BIG BLACK COCK. Everything goes out the window. Not that there was much to begin with, it's doubtful there was ever really any love in this relationship as she's as (borderline) abusive as it comes, but trust me. She'll immediately realise you for the LOSER you are as that black stallion let's her see what she's been missing out on. You realise this too, as comparing members you know in your heart there's no place for you in this interracial world and you might as well accept that seeing every girl you ever loved bred by a black dude is just your destined fate.

Of course, there's one aspect of this trope that also deserves some closer examination. Indeed, it's the third party, it's...

Trust me, I know about the blacks - I watched blaxploitation flicks!

To have some cringy interracial NTR you, of course, need the other race. Thing is, you don't know many black people in real life. Not to worry, you can always rely on other works (chiefly interracial porn on the internet, old gangsta rap lyrics you vaguely remember and 11 year olds pretending to be black on the internet) to characterise them. Yes, these people aren't just black, they's fucking Jive! Bonus points if their name starts with "Ty" like Tyrone, Tyreese. Otherwise Jamal, Marcus works too. Or go for those stereotypical ghetto names like Daquan or anything with a apostrophe like T'shawn. Go full 70s blaxploitation on their vernacular too. Good examples include:

"Ay yo where the white women at"
"This white bitch needs some of this black dick"
"Shut up bitch and put dem lips around my cock"
"These bitches be cray"


That's right. Use "bitch" wherever you can. Use outdated lingo you picked up from songs (cray, lit, ...). Emphasise the blackness of this character with every sentence to remind us that this is interracial. Use vaguely racist abbreviations and contractions you think black people talk like. Otherwise, we might forget about the stellar writing of this piece of art!

----------------------

I'll add images later.
Tropes are tools. Those are mainly criticisms. Also, no examples. ;)
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,844
3,892
Even though there is a good chance my NTR stuff might fall under this, I must say, hats off to you! In my defense I do very much try to keep Robert as realistic as possible, with possibly a slight overuse of bitch, and a'ight... though his speech patterns are based off of a friend of mine who might be the whitest man in existence. The generic black dude was on my list whenever I got the time, but now I have no need to touch it, you did it better than I could. Bravo though. Sereiously great fucking post! Only thing is there may be a bit of overlap on 20 going on 12 with the Eighteen trope.
Well, I think that's only really an issue if you try to make a character matching a stereotype you don't really have any understanding/experience with. I don't know very many black people, and none of the ones I do know conform to the "gansta" stereotype. The same would be true though if I tried to make a white hillbilly type character or a meth head or whatever. I don't know anyone like that. I suspect most people would run into similar issues where they only have first hand experience with a fairly limited range of stereotypical personalities to draw on, although an extrovert would probably have an easier time than an introvert like me since they'd just meet more people in general.

So movies/TV would be all I would have to go on if I tried to write a character like that. I would probably find a show with characters similar to what I had in mind to base them on. Say "The Wire" for a black gangster type character. Maybe "Justified" for a hillbilly, etc.
 
Last edited:

W65

Active Member
May 31, 2018
779
866
Well, a fine line between tropes and cliches. I think some criticism is inevitable because some of the tropes/cliches are kinda bad.
I guess you don't subscribe to That Trope Place's trope doctrine?

Do they still do the "tropes are not bad/tropes are not good" thing over there, or has the "tropes are tools" thing taken that concept over? I guess in the context of the thread it's not terribly important, except for that website being so inextricably connected to the "trope" meme by now. Meme in the old definition, not the "what people call an image macro today" definition.
 

hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
583
Well, a fine line between tropes and cliches. I think some criticism is inevitable because some of the tropes/cliches are kinda bad.
That should be taken cliches are always bad, I take it?

Cliches are the basic tools in storytelling - it's why they are cliches. Now, using only hammer and nails to build a house is stupid, but you'd be hard pressed to create a story without using a lot of cliches. There are ways to justify the usage of all the tropes around here. Is it worth it is another matter.
For example, since you can't really use patreon and have anyone under 18 preforming sexual acts (and it's not only patreon, even here you'd have problems) - leads to everybody being "18", while obviously not fitting that age. I won't even go in to the fashion tropes, since it depends way too much on where one lives and the culture around here. Tank top and short jeans is quite common in the summer in Bulgaria, for example, but unless you are working as a barista - it's not something you wear to work. Work attire is much more complicated.
Won't comment on the others - I rarely if ever play Japanese porn games, but I'm pretty certain there are ways to pull off the mentioned tropes.

To be perfectly honest your critique brings nothing to the table, without at least a few examples attached to it. Currently it's worthless. I'll readily admit, I despise the idea "if containing X = bad" in writing, since it enforces mediocrity and in my experience creates more bad stories, than good ones. After all, as with any trade - it's not about the tools it's about how you apply them that makes something.
 

megaplayboy10k

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2018
1,557
2,081
That should be taken cliches are always bad, I take it?

Cliches are the basic tools in storytelling - it's why they are cliches. Now, using only hammer and nails to build a house is stupid, but you'd be hard pressed to create a story without using a lot of cliches. There are ways to justify the usage of all the tropes around here. Is it worth it is another matter.
For example, since you can't really use patreon and have anyone under 18 preforming sexual acts (and it's not only patreon, even here you'd have problems) - leads to everybody being "18", while obviously not fitting that age. I won't even go in to the fashion tropes, since it depends way too much on where one lives and the culture around here. Tank top and short jeans is quite common in the summer in Bulgaria, for example, but unless you are working as a barista - it's not something you wear to work. Work attire is much more complicated.
Won't comment on the others - I rarely if ever play Japanese porn games, but I'm pretty certain there are ways to pull off the mentioned tropes.

To be perfectly honest your critique brings nothing to the table, without at least a few examples attached to it. Currently it's worthless. I'll readily admit, I despise the idea "if containing X = bad" in writing, since it enforces mediocrity and in my experience creates more bad stories, than good ones. After all, as with any trade - it's not about the tools it's about how you apply them that makes something.
Well, I happen to have a creative writing degree, so...what I will say is that bad writing is bad writing. Sometimes we stop using tools because new tools come along which are much better suited to the task at hand, saving labor/mess. "Trope" in the classical literary sense, yes, means a type of literary device or tool. Some clichés are neither good nor bad, and some are actually bad(black characters who are just flat racist stereotypes, e.g.).
As an example of a trope/cliché which happens a lot in fap games, we get the "doing chores helps you get laid"(which IRL is only true if you are doing them to please your wife or girlfriend lol) trope, which was, when originally introduced in some game, kind of a baby step towards something akin to relationship-building. 500 instances later, it starts to look a bit tedious and silly. Why does it persist? Because the devs are casting about for things one can do for the women(typically) in the MC's life/household that will tend to build affection, trust, intimacy and desire/lust/arousal, so they brainstorm and go through a checklist--household chores, running errands, going shopping, giving massages, giving gifts, chatting, helping with homework, watching a movie together, going shopping together, etc. The challenge is, is there a logic to it beyond adding points to a virtual "score"? Is this actually a decent way to simulate seduction/developing intimacy? Tyrant has a mechanic where giving your mom and sisters condoms increases their lust! The more of these games I play, the more I want to see them move away from level-grinding and fetch questing.
 

IdleGuy

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Aug 7, 2016
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Tropes are tools. Those are mainly criticisms. Also, no examples. ;)
I don't agree. Tropes don't need to be exclusively neutral or have positive lining. I mean, the literary trope of is, and has been, used for ages but I think you'll find that a lot of competent current-day writers think of it as a tool for hacks for easy character empathy and you need to either examine it enough thoroughly or subvert it for it to be done well.

All of my examples could very easily be subverted, even in a throwaway line. You could have a female character looking at a slutty outfit and go "Yeah... how about no/later?" or put a lampshade over it like .

Likewise, a black character could do a subversion like .

As for examples, where to begin...

20 going 12
As @Burt Reynolds Mustache said, quite a bit of overlap with the others posted here.

Modest character, immodestly dressed
Most everything really. I'll look at the current main page from the games section:
Seraphim Academy
Freeloading Family
Man of the House
Echoes of Lust
Babysitter

Honestly, if it's made in Daz3D it will almost certainly be on here.



NTR deserves an entirely seperate thread. The main problem is either the length of the work (you shouldn't do it in a short game/novel) and/or the purpose of NTR - which in many games is used as a fail-state of the MC (as it is in Japanese works like AliceSoft's NTR works or in western games like Big Brother or Babysitter) where the NTR person exists in parallel to the main character and the main character's purpose, besides wooing the ladies, is to cockblock the stealer. Which means not enough emphasis is placed on the stealing (which ironically means that even though they're long works, they wrap back around to the main problem as their "story" is way too short).

As for BBC/Baxploitation Black Men, the main culprit is Monty, but stuff like "Sarah's Life" (insofar that game is still relevant, lol), Black&White photoshoot are shameless offenders.
I think Liam from Acting Lessons is probably the best of the non-offenders, as his being black affects literally nothing. Robert from Babysitter is decently written, but his being black is clearly part of his boogeyman, stealing-your-girl persona.
 
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IdleGuy

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Aug 7, 2016
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The Three Characters you'll almost certainly find in NTR works

Typically in any game with NTR aspects, at least one of these three Girl-stealers will pop up:

1) The Corporate

This guy is loaded. He has the classic, near-sociopathic attitude towards life that he can, and should, get anything or anyone he wants. When used in works, he craves after the MC's SO because she's the forbidden fruit he's denied. He tends to sway her with material goods and/or promises only he can provide. Yearly cruises? He can. Helicopter ride for the fun of it? He's your man. Caviar for lunch every day? He can provide it.

The sleazier of these types, typically bald, fat or both, instead use their Weinstein-esque corporate sway to ensure that they can get away with anything. Usually having their greasy hands buttered with corrupt law enforcement or politicians as their get-out-of-jail-free card. They rape with impunity.


2) The Outsider (AKA The Black Guy)

This is your basic, primordial fear of outsiders getting to you. Playing up the fact that these races are stereotypically portrayed as both physically and sexually superior to your own. In Western works, these are usually black guys. In Eastern works, these are either white guys or more black people.

Their stealing of your girl is a combination of their natural, race-given charisma and your SO's secret sexual fantasy of being given a good, hard rutting. Typically huge cocks.


3) The Player

These dudes, typically fairly young (ages 18-24) are your typical hunks. Having both way more natural success with the ladies than you'll ever have but also having the laissez-faire attitude provided by their youth. They are playful and fun. These threaten you because they remind your SO of the more halcyon days of her youth or your early relationship. Naturally fit and swaggering all over the place with their youthful defiance but given some extra pep due to their sociopathic attitude towards others' relationships. Your SO would just be another notch on their belt and both you and they know it.
 
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hameleona

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Oct 27, 2018
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Well, I happen to have a creative writing degree, so...what I will say is that bad writing is bad writing. Sometimes we stop using tools because new tools come along which are much better suited to the task at hand, saving labor/mess. "Trope" in the classical literary sense, yes, means a type of literary device or tool. Some clichés are neither good nor bad, and some are actually bad(black characters who are just flat racist stereotypes, e.g.).
Hey, I never once said you should use a hammer on a microprocessor. It doesn't change the fact, that it's not the hammer but the idiot behind it that is bad. And no, considering the many ways a trope can be used (justified, subverted, deconstructed, reconstructed and so on, making tropes really agile tools) you will have hard time convincing me a trope by itself is bad or good. You won't have a hard time convincing me most writers using a trope are under-qualified for it. One of the hardest things a writer must learn is what he can and can not do. Biggest problem with most games - they just start with some idea and hope the story will sort itself out. You can get The Lord of the Rings like that. Or you can get The Sword of Truth. Depends on the writer. And most devs don't seem to spend much time on the story in their games.

As an example of a trope/cliché which happens a lot in fap games, we get the "doing chores helps you get laid"(which IRL is only true if you are doing them to please your wife or girlfriend lol) trope, which was, when originally introduced in some game, kind of a baby step towards something akin to relationship-building. 500 instances later, it starts to look a bit tedious and silly. Why does it persist? Because the devs are casting about for things one can do for the women(typically) in the MC's life/household that will tend to build affection, trust, intimacy and desire/lust/arousal, so they brainstorm and go through a checklist--household chores, running errands, going shopping, giving massages, giving gifts, chatting, helping with homework, watching a movie together, going shopping together, etc. The challenge is, is there a logic to it beyond adding points to a virtual "score"? Is this actually a decent way to simulate seduction/developing intimacy? Tyrant has a mechanic where giving your mom and sisters condoms increases their lust! The more of these games I play, the more I want to see them move away from level-grinding and fetch questing.
I guess one of my exes is fictional. I should call her and tell her she doesn't exist. Than again few people actually move in with someone from the other gender before they are involved, so mine may be the exception that proves the rule. :D
Joke aside, something being overused just means its overused. Market overflow. You can see the very good arguments with the stairway to heaven trope here - they use it, because it works. Both in real life and in games. I personally find the "life-long mandate" in games much more annoying - you don't really have to work to keep the relationship alive, once you reach point X - you have it all. The girl never goes angry that you literally spent the month after fucking her for the first time not even giving her a casual call. And implementing stuff like that is way easier, than figuring out how to avoid the seduction pattern. Would also point out some of the real problems in non-monogamous relationships. But still, from a game-play perspective - it makes sense.
 
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megaplayboy10k

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Hey, I never once said you should use a hammer on a microprocessor. It doesn't change the fact, that it's not the hammer but the idiot behind it that is bad. And no, considering the many ways a trope can be used (justified, subverted, deconstructed, reconstructed and so on, making tropes really agile tools) you will have hard time convincing me a trope by itself is bad or good. You won't have a hard time convincing me most writers using a trope are under-qualified for it. One of the hardest things a writer must learn is what he can and can not do. Biggest problem with most games - they just start with some idea and hope the story will sort itself out. You can get The Lord of the Rings like that. Or you can get The Sword of Truth. Depends on the writer. And most devs don't seem to spend much time on the story in their games.



I guess one of my exes is fictional. I should call her and tell her she doesn't exist. Than again few people actually move in with someone from the other gender before they are involved, so mine may be the exception that proves the rule. :D
Joke aside, something being overused just means its overused. Market overflow. You can see the very good arguments with the stairway to heaven trope here - they use it, because it works. Both in real life and in games. I personally find the "life-long mandate" in games much more annoying - you don't really have to work to keep the relationship alive, once you reach point X - you have it all. The girl never goes angry that you literally spent the month after fucking her for the first time not even giving her a casual call. And implementing stuff like that is way easier, than figuring out how to avoid the seduction pattern. Would also point out some of the real problems in non-monogamous relationships. But still, from a game-play perspective - it makes sense.
I think the other thing driving the persistence of the Stairway to Heaven trope is the underlying reality of the "Patreon grind". 1. Release content to stimulate patronage 2. Release new content periodically to keep it going 3. Don't go straight to the ultimate payoff(penetration/intercourse) because you risk patrons losing interest afterwards, so you save it for last.
I suspect that, without the Patreon factor, we might see more games where there's a more natural, less protracted progression towards full sexual intimacy. IRL when two people are strongly attracted to each other, things often happen very quickly.
 

Rageshot

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Aug 6, 2018
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This one is kinda a joke and i don't know if anyone has said it yet, because i spent the last hour reading the first 8 pages of replies and i don't have that much time in one night to read all 21 pages so...
1543548419737.png
The Disappearing Dev

You play a great sounding game that is early in development(v0.15,0.2,0.25... you get the point) and you find the early gameplay to be really fun or see a lot of potential in the game, or really like the concept or art. And you decide ill keep up with it, Im really looking forward to it. fast forward a couple months to a year later their has been no update to the game and the comments on the thread start, "is this game dead?" or "Any news from the dev?", and the last update from them was half a year ago when they said an update is coming soon. The thread and the pateron are silent, until the dreaded post from a mod that they are declaring it abandoned, A moment of silence for a game that could have been awesome, like a parent throwing away their child.

Or on the other side of the same coin when the dev goes missing late development, the game was almost done or at least most of the main content originally promised was about to be included but then we players of the game get the ultimate permanent blue balls gates slammed in our faces right before the end, we all can perfectly imagine it how it finishes but it just isn't the same as playing it for real
 

toolkitxx

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This one is kinda a joke and i don't know if anyone has said it yet, because i spent the last hour reading the first 8 pages of replies and i don't have that much time in one night to read all 21 pages so...
View attachment 187518
The Disappearing Dev

You play a great sounding game that is early in development(v0.15,0.2,0.25... you get the point) and you find the early gameplay to be really fun or see a lot of potential in the game, or really like the concept or art. And you decide ill keep up with it, Im really looking forward to it. fast forward a couple months to a year later their has been no update to the game and the comments on the thread start, "is this game dead?" or "Any news from the dev?", and the last update from them was half a year ago when they said an update is coming soon. The thread and the pateron are silent, until the dreaded post from a mod that they are declaring it abandoned, A moment of silence for a game that could have been awesome, like a parent throwing away their child.

Or on the other side of the same coin when the dev goes missing late development, the game was almost done or at least most of the main content originally promised was about to be included but then we players of the game get the ultimate permanent blue balls gates slammed in our faces right before the end, we all can perfectly imagine it how it finishes but it just isn't the same as playing it for real
How is this relevant to the topic? To be funny as a joke it should at least relate to the topic ;)
 
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Rageshot

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Aug 6, 2018
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How is this relevant to the topic? To be funny as a joke it should at least relate to the topic ;)
Earlier in the thread there was a post about a type of dev, so i just made another, and while it doesnt apply ingame it does happen often, and its annoying, not really that the dev stopped but that they didnt say it out rightand just let people take half a year to fully figure it out
 
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fitgirlbestgirl

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Jul 27, 2017
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The Relief Girl is a staple of male protagonist incest games. Examples:
Sisterly Lust - Ana periodically pops up to help the MC bust a nut for no adequately explained reason.
Liked your trope but I think this doesn't really count. The Stairway in Sisterly Lust is pretty short, so you're actually boning one of your sisters fairly quickly after you had sex with Ana for the first time. Ana is definitely easy but she is explicitly portrayed as the school slut and she jumps you because your sister told her about your huge dick. I mean, there are certainly a bunch of porn tropes in here, but it seems pretty "adequately explained" to me.
 
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