Question on Fetishes

[Deleted member 3145675]

I also enjoy male dom and can't help but put it in my games. Personally, I think what makes or breaks S&M is the dialogue, how the sub and dom play off each other, if you can't get that right, it isn't S&M. Which is why you can have S&M without the "whips and chains" and have it be very hot, though on the other hand I've seen people put it in who don't know what they are doing and it just sounds like the dom is trying to hurt the person as much as humanly possible as if an S&M relationship is just Stockholm Syndrome between a psychopath and their victim.(fyi, nobody is trained to enjoy being a masochist in an S&M relationship, the sub always starts out and is fully aware they are a masochist from the beginning, "training" is simply bonding between the dom and sub where they build trust as they try new and more extreme things.) So, you end up getting scenes which seem more like torture than BDSM.

However, someone who enjoys that stuff and does enough research to understand the nuances can craft a BDSM scene that is not only visually appealing, but the dialogue syncs up perfectly and is both believable(in a "these sound like actual people" sort of way) and sexy to read. You can even turn normally vanilla sex into S&M with the right dialogue.

Hi,
tho i agree with you on several points of your post, I have to correct you upon
a few details, you seem to make a confusion between a D/s agreed upon relationship
(or a contractual agreement) and a BDSM one (which a lot of people do)

as a example you wrote "I think what makes or breaks S&M is the dialogue,how the sub and dom play off each other, if you can't get that right, it isn't S&M"

- you should have used a "D" for Dom (I know it's nitpicking but a Dom is to be shown proper respect)

- every aspect of the interaction is contractually agreed upon before anything happens, so technically
they only play off each other while NOT being in a D/s mode - once the contract is signed the Dom
orders and the sub obeys. (within the agreed upon limitations)

- a True Dom will maybe propose His/Her sub to push a bit further than agreed upon but will never Force it.
(even less if the sub does not agree to accept said push - the Dom may set such push as a "potential objective" to reach)

- you can have a true D/s relation and NO S&M at all (not even Bondage either)

You must be registered to see the links

The article is rather well written and is a must for anyone willing to further his/her
understanding of the subject (or finding inspiration)

regarding the point "the sub always starts out and is fully aware they are a masochist from the beginning"
there are disagreements over this statement - a sub is NOT always a masochist (unless you consider
Verbal Domination as an effective form of violence) - and Many Masters or Mistresses do NOT consider themselves as "sadists".

(I Know its a complex world - but it's an interesting one)

I Totally agree with your point regarding the complexity of writing a good scene of either
activity - even if the graphic aspect of visual BDSM is easier to show than it is to visually
transcript a complex D/s relationship whose many aspects may be understated by the participants
and barely visible to any uninformed audience involved.

I could exaggerate a bit and say that you could do an excellent BDSM chapter of a VN/Renpy game
with a 100+ renders and not a single word - but that it would require at least 10k words to
illustrate a true D/s commitment to one another (with 1 render needed)

To circle back to the topic of the author of the post "So my question to all is, would you play a game that
list fetishes that you are into, but also list fetishes that you are not into at all? But also gives you an
option during the story to turn down any upcoming scenes with a fetish that you know you wouldn't be into"

I would add that if the MC has a submissive path (which he either chose or agreed upon) he should by no means
be allowed to refuse to follow said path unless the game includes mechanisms allowing the check boxes option
for fetishes (i.e. secretary - the sissy girlfriend experiment)
and that he's proposed with options not in the agreement and as such ones he can reject on his/her own "will".

as a joke to end - I would say that a true sadist Master/Mistress would Never use violence upon a true masochist sub because He/She would refuse to indulge such a vile trade of granting a sub what a sub actually wants!

(They would rather prefer to cuddling the masochist to death with teddy bears and stuffed unicorns)

/jk

 

[ChaosOpen]

Hi,
tho i agree with you on several points of your post, I have to correct you upon
a few details, you seem to make a confusion between a D/s agreed upon relationship
(or a contractual agreement) and a BDSM one (which a lot of people do)

as a example you wrote "I think what makes or breaks S&M is the dialogue,how the sub and dom play off each other, if you can't get that right, it isn't S&M"

- you should have used a "D" for Dom (I know it's nitpicking but a Dom is to be shown proper respect)

- every aspect of the interaction is contractually agreed upon before anything happens, so technically
they only play off each other while NOT being in a D/s mode - once the contract is signed the Dom
orders and the sub obeys. (within the agreed upon limitations)

- a True Dom will maybe propose His/Her sub to push a bit further than agreed upon but will never Force it.
(even less if the sub does not agree to accept said push - the Dom may set such push as a "potential objective" to reach)

- you can have a true D/s relation and NO S&M at all (not even Bondage either)

You must be registered to see the links

The article is rather well written and is a must for anyone willing to further his/her
understanding of the subject (or finding inspiration)

regarding the point "the sub always starts out and is fully aware they are a masochist from the beginning"
there are disagreements over this statement - a sub is NOT always a masochist (unless you consider
Verbal Domination as an effective form of violence) - and Many Masters or Mistresses do NOT consider themselves as "sadists".

(I Know its a complex world - but it's an interesting one)

I Totally agree with your point regarding the complexity of writing a good scene of either
activity - even if the graphic aspect of visual BDSM is easier to show than it is to visually
transcript a complex D/s relationship whose many aspects may be understated by the participants
and barely visible to any uninformed audience involved.

I could exaggerate a bit and say that you could do an excellent BDSM chapter of a VN/Renpy game
with a 100+ renders and not a single word - but that it would require at least 10k words to
illustrate a true D/s commitment to one another (with 1 render needed)

To circle back to the topic of the author of the post "So my question to all is, would you play a game that
list fetishes that you are into, but also list fetishes that you are not into at all? But also gives you an
option during the story to turn down any upcoming scenes with a fetish that you know you wouldn't be into"

I would add that if the MC has a submissive path (which he either chose or agreed upon) he should by no means
be allowed to refuse to follow said path unless the game includes mechanisms allowing the check boxes option
for fetishes (i.e. secretary - the sissy girlfriend experiment)
and that he's proposed with options not in the agreement and as such ones he can reject on his/her own "will".

as a joke to end - I would say that a true sadist Master/Mistress would Never use violence upon a true masochist sub because He/She would refuse to indulge such a vile trade of granting a sub what a sub actually wants!

(They would rather prefer to cuddling the masochist to death with teddy bears and stuffed unicorns)

/jk

Despite being labeled as "dominate" and "submissive" in an actual S&M relationship it's a bit more complex than that. People are complex beings, and few will be willing to say "do whatever you want." The role of the dom isn't to do whatever he wants to the sub. The dom should always use a "carrot and stick" approach. One mistake I often see is where the dom simply tries to cause the sub as much pain as humanly possible, masochist don't simply enjoy pain, they don't stub their toe at night and moan in pleasure. The pain is simply a means to an ends, they mostly like the fact that they are controlled by someone who is superior and above all, someone they respect. A dom who is self serving and only wants to cause pain is simply an abusive relationship and the most hardcore of masochist are going to lose respect for someone who fails to meet the subs desires.

 

[Deleted member 2466386]

Personally I'm lucky that I like almost all the fetishes, only gay and furry that I can't handle they're just not my cup of tea. So if the game has gay tag, chances are it's gonna be focusing on gay stuffs and won't contain any straight scene so I can skip the game completely. For furry it's mostly from Western game and I usually play Japanese games so yeah.

Again no hard feelings, I have no mean to insult anyone who's into gay or furry.

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

Despite being labeled as "dominate" and "submissive" in an actual S&M relationship it's a bit more complex than that. People are complex beings, and few will be willing to say "do whatever you want." The role of the dom isn't to do whatever he wants to the sub. The dom should always use a "carrot and stick" approach. One mistake I often see is where the dom simply tries to cause the sub as much pain as humanly possible, masochist don't simply enjoy pain, they don't stub their toe at night and moan in pleasure. The pain is simply a means to an ends, they mostly like the fact that they are controlled by someone who is superior and above all, someone they respect. A dom who is self serving and only wants to cause pain is simply an abusive relationship and the most hardcore of masochist are going to lose respect for someone who fails to meet the subs desires.

I won't repeat my entire post so I'll be brief (for once) I mostly agree with you but yet again D/s can is or should be different to pure
BDSM - Agreement, Trust, and Trustworthiness are key elements - Like other people Doms and subs are still human which means they
are not perfect - and there are some atrocious people out there - (even terrible Doms not worhty of the title)
(just try to avoid them)
(as a plot to a story, you can still use a terrible character - every good story needs a "good" villain)
tc

 

[DuniX]

BDSM are a bunch of pussies in reality, what a surprise.

Sadism, Slavery and Torture are the only true Fetish.
No True Sadist likes an abominable Masochist.
BDSM is just a Masochist fantasy, they are the ones running the show, the "Dom" is nothing more then a Prop that they use to mastrubate with.

 

[Staimh]

BDSM are a bunch of pussies in reality, what a surprise.

Sadism, Slavery and Torture are the only true Fetish.
No True Sadist likes an abominable Masochist.
BDSM is just a Masochist fantasy, they are the ones running the show, the "Dom" is nothing more then a Prop that they use to mastrubate with.

A fetish is an activity, usually which delights and/or excites the fetishist, where the fetishist dedicates an unusual amount of time and effort to pursuing their fetish (it doesn't have to be sexual at all but on this site the odds are it's going to be).
Under other circumstances it could be called an obsession.
BDSM is often a fetish where the roles are reversed so in that case it's unlikely to include any true sadists or masochists.
For myself I would be incapable of coping with either.

I should add of course that many BDSM services are offered by someone specializing in one role (the dominant one usually) but I guess they are always going to need to do some sort of evaluation before getting past the playacting stage.

 

[Callowayaway]

BDSM are a bunch of pussies in reality, what a surprise.

This is the true take-away. Also if anyone ties you up and shoves a gag in you mouth, that's BDSM no matter how non-consensual it is. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise (especially lying fucking furries).

 

[Staimh]

BDSM are a bunch of pussies in reality, what a surprise.

Anyone for female on female femdom ?

(couldn't resist it)

 

[Doorknob22]

It's all about the weight of the fetish in a game. I'm a hetero but I don't mind some guy on guy content in a game. However, if most of the game is about dudes boning each other than I'll skip. In my game there is one guy on guy (hot!) scene but it's easily avoidable.

The key is to identify which fetishes are more sensitive (NTR, gay, etc) and make them avoidable. Less sensitive ones (big breasts, lesbian sex etc) are usually non issue.

 

[Callowayaway]

i
The key is to identify which fetishes are more sensitive (NTR, gay, etc) and make them avoidable.

Uhh, NO?! Why the fuck should I give a fuck if fetishes are "avoidable." There are plenty of games that do not involve my anti-fetish, why should I be forced to play a game I am not interested in, Sam I Am. I do not like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam I Am. I do not like them in a boat, I do not like them when you are feeling sanctimonious. Please leave me alone, or if you do not wish to, then at least concentrate your efforts on making things more searchable.

 

[Doorknob22]

Uhh, NO?! Why the fuck should I give a fuck if fetishes are "avoidable." There are plenty of games that do not involve my anti-fetish, why should I be forced to play a game I am not interested in, Sam I Am. I do not like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam I Am. I do not like them in a boat, I do not like them when you are feeling sanctimonious. Please leave me alone, or if you do not wish to, then at least concentrate your efforts on making things more searchable.

Not sure if I understand you completely. If I like most of of the game and it includes some "anti-fetishes" (fetishes I dislike), I'd appreciate the ability to avoid them and still enjoy the rest of the game, that's all I was saying.

 

[ChaosOpen]

It's all about the weight of the fetish in a game. I'm a hetero but I don't mind some guy on guy content in a game. However, if most of the game is about dudes boning each other than I'll skip. In my game there is one guy on guy (hot!) scene but it's easily avoidable.

The key is to identify which fetishes are more sensitive (NTR, gay, etc) and make them avoidable. Less sensitive ones (big breasts, lesbian sex etc) are usually non issue.

Problem is: as a game developer I can say that if you're putting time into those fetishes, you expect the users to watch them and plan the game around that assumption, the bigger the fetish has on the plot, the more woven into the rest of the game it is. But maybe as a peace offering you extend an olive branch and make a non-NTR route. Thing with NTR in particular is it isn't a small scene, it must be woven into the entire plot including the MC's personality, a game where NTR is optional is basically two games in one, and if you're the type of person who wants to spend time and effort writing NTR, you don't want to put much effort into a "happy end" for the MC.

I've seen plenty of cases where games have "avoidable" NTR and promise like 20-30 sex scenes, then when you take the non-NTR route you only unlock a fraction of the content. Plus, there is the content of the other fetishes, normally the breakdown goes like this:

Game promises: bondage, sex toys, spanking, female orgasm, exhibitionism, anal sex, deepthroat, titfuck, creampie, handjob, ahego, pregnancy, condom sex, cunnilingus, anilingus

And then it pretty much breaks down like this:

Non-NTR Route: handjob, condom sex

NTR route: bondage, sex toys, spanking, female orgasm, exhibitionism, anal, deepthroat, titfuck, creampie, pregnancy, handjob, ahego, cunnilingus, analingus

As you can see, a clear different in not only the amount of content but also the quality and variety. And generally the non-NTR route isn't "pleasing her to the point where she doesn't need anyone else" but is "being so controlling that she never gets the chance to experience amazing sex."

 

[Doorknob22]

Vitalsigns maybe developers should state Major and Minor fetishes? Also, I think that developers who mislead their audiences are risking frustration and low ratings, so this should be a consideration for them.

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

One excellent way to solve the problem.

Make a Patreon for your game
Each time you want to include a possibly infuriating fetish/plot create a Poll
Continue building your game according to Patron's wishes/kinks/whatever (they pay for it)
anyone else bitchin' about how your game is "ruining their childhood" (and is not a Patron) can go... (suck an egg)

(OK it's kinda mercenary approach - but hey who said a Game Dev was a Saint or had to be one?)

1st rule of good Biz - Give ppl who pay what they paid for.

 

[Doorknob22]

One excellent way to solve the problem.

Make a Patreon for your game
Each time you want to include a possibly infuriating fetish/plot create a Poll
Continue building your game according to Patron's wishes/kinks/whatever (they pay for it)
anyone else bitchin' about how your game is "ruining their childhood" (and is not a Patron) can go... (suck an egg)

(OK it's kinda mercenary approach - but hey who said a Game Dev was a Saint or had to be one?)

1st rule of good Biz - Give ppl who pay what they paid for.

I have to disagree, strongly.

You put the fetishes you want to put it. They ones which drive you. Trying to create something of value by attempting to cater to the whims of others is a sure way to fail IMHO. Also: what do you if your patrons have conflicted opinions? Some dislike gay stuff, others would actually like to see the MC sticking it up the ass to a random dude here and there? Which party do you please?

Your lighthouse, your north star, your map is you and what you want to create.

 

[ChaosOpen]

Vitalsigns maybe developers should state Major and Minor fetishes? Also, I think that developers who mislead their audiences are risking frustration and low ratings, so this should be a consideration for them.

I'd say when making a game I'd classify fetishes into 3 categories: Game, Major, and Minor

Game fetishes are the ones that impact the entire game as well as the characters in it, it will be almost impossible to remove it.
Major fetishes have an impact on the plot but are mostly likely confined to a single route, removing them would be taking out an entire route.
Minor fetishes are small acts that don't have much impact on anything, you can simply skip over the scene.

It depends on how the author uses them. For example, NTR can be a game fetish if the game is basically an NTR game but it can also be a major fetish during a bad end. The difference is whether that threat is hanging over the player. If the player feels like he is constantly in a love triangle, then you have removed the scene but not the fetish. However, if it is a couple scenes at the end where some guy shows up out of nowhere after you have managed to alienate the girl by yourself, then that is a major fetish.

As for a minor fetish, that would be something that is part of a larger fetish, for example, lets say you had a game with a lot of BDSM and one of the scenes is the dom peeing on the sub. Since it is a single act that is never really brought up again, it can probably be gotten rid of without much problem.

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

I have to disagree, strongly.

You put the fetishes you want to put it. They ones which drive you. Trying to create something of value by attempting to cater to the whims of others is a sure way to fail IMHO. Also: what do you if your patrons have conflicted opinions? Some dislike gay stuff, others would actually like to see the MC sticking it up the ass to a random dude here and there? Which party do you please?

Your lighthouse, your north star, your map is you and what you want to create.

poll n.
The casting and registering of votes in an election.

(usually the majority wins and as such its choice is promoted)

but True - a Dev can also build his game according to his wishes and ethic and whatever

(as long as he does not ask for your money to build his baseball stadium in a field near Podunk,North Dakota)