Questions about starting in game development

[IdanSama]

Hey

I've been playing games on this site for a while now, and i just have so many ideas that turn me on and i want to play them badly.

From what I understand, I think i want to use renpy. i personally don't like games that try to actually be games, for me it's about the story. good dialog, hot girls, sometimes making a decision.. that's it..

Now, in real life im a programmer, studied it and it's been my job for years. renpy will be simple, im usually 'modding' the games i play by altering the script file. changing relation between characters, giving myself points, stuff like that.

But as far as designing goes - I'm completely clueless. I have zero experience, im even terrible at drawing, and it kinda feels impossible at this point - like how the fuck are you doing this shit??

So a few questions - if i want to make a VN game, with beautiful 3d characters, and animation in certain scenes:

-how long should it really take to learn? let's say i have an hour or 2 every day.
-what program should i use?
-where do u find models / backgrounds and stuff like that?
-what the best way to learn? is there like a complete tutorial from start to finish or something?

i hope my questions make sense, and if you have any other tips that may help please let me know.

Thanks

 

[Synx]

-how long should it really take to learn? let's say i have an hour or 2 every day.
-what program should i use?
-where do u find models / backgrounds and stuff like that?
-what the best way to learn? is there like a complete tutorial from start to finish or something?

1) Hard to say. Some people pick it up really quickly, some takes ages to learn even the most basic stuff. But overall it shouldn't take ages, a week or two should be more then enough to get the basics going.
2) DAZ3D is the main one used. It's a simple program aimed at making renders from pre-made 3D characters. What it can do is limited, but for this kind of stuff it's often more then enough.
3) On this very website. The asset-release section has a ton of pirated assets. For easier showing you can as well go to the Latest updates page and the asset section. You can as well buy the assets from the DAZ website.
4) Just use tutorials really. Start with the very basic one about DAZ focussing on the controls etc, and then slowly work your way to the more specific ones aimed at making renders, like how to set-up a scene, lightning, etc. There is plenty to find on youtube.

 

[MissFortune]

Synx gave some very good answers, so I'm just going to expand on his/her points from the perspective of a (relatively new) developer.

- Hard to say, as said, basically covers it. I come from an artistic background, from fine artists to graphic/digital artists. I didn't inherit any of it, though, at least from a fine art perspective. I'm a competent graphic designer, very good even, but 3D was a totally new world to me. I'd say a week or two for learning and fully understanding the UI is enough, give or take. What takes longer to learn, from a Daz perspective, is lighting. Good lighting will be what makes or breaks your renders, or what takes them from good to great. Getting poses and expressions to look natural is probably a second though.

- Daz 3D is probably the best what you're looking for. You can use something like Blender (but if you think you're going to struggle with something like Daz, then I'd hold off on that.). While I wouldn't call Daz simple outright (it is when compared to Maya/3DS Max, MD, ZBrush, etc.), what makes it stand out is the quality of renders you can achieve without an extended knowledge in 3D modeling/texturing/etc. Is it limited? That depends on the user themselves. Someone who's good in Photoshop could make clothes look completely new (I'm sure the same applies to Substance Painter.), or add certain details to a texture/surface map. Someone who's capable in ZBrush can create better micro-details for skins. Just depends on the skill level of said user. Alternatively, there's also Honey Select (1 or 2) and/or Koikatsu, if you're looking for more of a anime-esque result or have a lower-end rig.

- There's

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,

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, and

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as your main marketplaces/stores. I personally stand by the try before you buy view when it comes to anything digital. Except for Adobe, because fuck Adobe. These are people who are already having a fair chunk of money taken by Daz, then more by Paypal/what they use to transfer money with for what can be a month+ of work. Support the PAs/creators you like, and they'll be keen on making more. Just like a dev. The more people they see liking enough to support the project, the more excited (even if only subconsciously) they are to continue working on it. I'm not saying don't pirate if you can't afford it, just support where you can.

- I sound like a shill by repeatedly putting this out there, but

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(specifically the 3D Light Club in your case) is probably the best you're going to find. Especially at the price. You can also buy many of his tutorials on his

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page. His 8 Point Lighting series is also pirateable (is that a word?) on a number of sites. As far as YouTube goes? Rauko and Jay/The WP Guru are the only sources of legit lighting on the platform, and the former only delves into the basics (which might be what you need right now.). IT-Roy is another good one for beginners.

But as far as lighting goes, YouTube is easily the least helpful. Not a dig at anyone on it. It's just not great, imo.

 

[GamesMtP]

Hey

I've been playing games on this site for a while now, and i just have so many ideas that turn me on and i want to play them badly.

From what I understand, I think i want to use renpy. i personally don't like games that try to actually be games, for me it's about the story. good dialog, hot girls, sometimes making a decision.. that's it..

Now, in real life im a programmer, studied it and it's been my job for years. renpy will be simple, im usually 'modding' the games i play by altering the script file. changing relation between characters, giving myself points, stuff like that.

But as far as designing goes - I'm completely clueless. I have zero experience, im even terrible at drawing, and it kinda feels impossible at this point - like how the fuck are you doing this shit??

So a few questions - if i want to make a VN game, with beautiful 3d characters, and animation in certain scenes:

-how long should it really take to learn? let's say i have an hour or 2 every day.
-what program should i use?
-where do u find models / backgrounds and stuff like that?
-what the best way to learn? is there like a complete tutorial from start to finish or something?

i hope my questions make sense, and if you have any other tips that may help please let me know.

Thanks

You got some excellent answers already. I'll just throw in my personal experience here since I was in pretty much exactly your position about 1-1.5 years ago. Minus the coding knowledge.

I went with Daz, and it's taken me, well, 1-1.5 years to get to where I am now, doing things at a hobby level on my free time. Still a long, long way to go to approach the quality/knowledge levels of some people around here. It's a long journey with a lot of things along the way that requires you to dig into guides, forum threads etc.

That said, you won't get any better by waiting to get started.

 

[Synx]

But as far as lighting goes, YouTube is easily the least helpful. Not a dig at anyone on it. It's just not great, imo.

Couldnt you just watch other programs lightning tutorials? Most turtorials i have seen about lightning where mainly focused on compositition/positioning of your lights etc. and looked easily applicable in other programs.

 

[8InchFloppyDick]

So a few questions - if i want to make a VN game, with beautiful 3d characters, and animation in certain scenes:

-how long should it really take to learn? let's say i have an hour or 2 every day.
-what program should i use?
-where do u find models / backgrounds and stuff like that?
-what the best way to learn? is there like a complete tutorial from start to finish or something?

i hope my questions make sense, and if you have any other tips that may help please let me know.

Since you're a coder... I'll start with 0

0. Don't bother with animations in DAZ for your first efforts. It's a whole special world of pain you can enjoy later.
1. How long is a piece of string.
2. Daz3D
3. I second what MissFortune said about giving creators some support. But for your first efforts you could look around on this website and on (at least) two other ones you'll find easily with a little bit of google fu.
4. Best way to learn I found is to break down what you want to achieve into small bits. Preferably with a goal in mind. Something like: by the end of this week I want to have a render of a sexy girl in a latex harness standing in a castle ruin at sunset. Not that it's my preferred (pun intended) subject matter, but I'll give you extra credit if you replace the sexy girlie with a well-lit Werewolf furry stroking his dripping canine cock.

To get you started, my first 'week' of a learning DAZ curriculum would be:

- Learn how to install a character asset using DIM - the Daz Install Manager
- Learn how to locate a character asset in the Smart Content panel
- Learn how to insert a character asset into the Daz scene
- Learn how to pan/rotate around character in the Daz viewport in perspective mode
- Learn how to create a camera at a perspective point you find pleasing
- Learn how to do a basic render using a camera you've inserted into the scene and save the result to a PNG or JPG
- Learn to pay attention to the number of samples you demand of Iray renders
- Learn how to move the imported asset in <x,y,z> in said scene
- Learn how to scale and/or rotate the asset
- Learn how to install a pre-made pose set and then locate it in Smart Contents
- Learn how to apply the pre-made pose you found to your character
- Learn how to use the Universal tool to manually adjust and/or pose your character
- Learn how to use the various sliders on the Shaping and Posing panels
- Learn how to select the asset in the scene overview and then apply various bits of wardrobe to it
- Learn how to install an environment like a room/house/landscape using DIM
- Learn how to place an environment asset like a room/house/landscape and place a character in it and then render it
- Learn how to select a different HDRI image as backdrop and lighting and explore the effects of rotating the HDRI 'dome'
- Learn how to switch between Iray and OpenGL (textured) viewport modes

I'm sure others can chip in with improvements and more suggestions.

In 'week' two I'd suggest you delve into basic scene composition like the 'rule of thirds'. You'll need to learn about colour too, in particular how it affects mood and 'feel'. And to finish the second week you might want to learn about how camera angles and positioning in the same scene with the same composition can give you a totally different 'result'.

You should look into Spot lights, Mesh lights and Morphs in 'week' three. Morphs in particular will be a bit of an 'aha' moment. The penny should drop about what the strength of Daz is when you grok the mixing and matching of Morphs.

Best of luck.

PS. Everybody else reading this post can give the Werewolf a go too!

 

[IdanSama]

wow great answers, thank you so much this community really seems awesome! literally every comment had something helpful to give, from links to great tips and everything.

tbh it's surprising to me that lighting is such an issue, i don't notice it while playing. but i guess it makes sense now that i think about it... anyway ill just understand after i start.

Daz3d it is, as you all said. first ill learn the program, features and ui.
then, i'll make sure i understand the concepts in the list 8InchFloppyDick gave here (thanks again btw this is amazing!) and also take his advice to set myself a reasonable first goal (it's gonna be a human girl though, sorry my friend), maybe ill post it when im done for reviews/tips.

about piracy vs supporting creators, i do have the money, but at the same time im a notorious pirate.. i promise to try to do better though, if the prices are reasonable.

anyway, thanks again everyone, this thread is definitely going to be helpful to come back to as a reference, for all the links and tips you gave me.

it's been a while since i got into learning something new, i'm a little scared but actually very excited.

 

[8InchFloppyDick]

(it's gonna be a human girl though, sorry my friend), maybe ill post it when im done for reviews/tips.

Hehehe, the furry thing is more of a joke. I never understood what people find interesting let alone 'exciting' about them. But, I recon that building a scene round one would make a really excellent learning opportunity

Anyway, do post your efforts so people can critique them and give you pointers for improvement.

 

[MissFortune]

Couldnt you just watch other programs lightning tutorials? Most turtorials i have seen about lightning where mainly focused on compositition/positioning of your lights etc. and looked easily applicable in other programs.

Totally forgot to mention that. But you definitely can (and should). Even real-world photography lighting tutorials can be helpful in a lot of ways in the scope of Daz. Might take some slightly more advanced concepts to apply them in Daz (e.g. the size of a spotlight in Daz to match the softness of a softbox on a photoshoot/movie set, etc.)

about piracy vs supporting creators, i do have the money, but at the same time im a notorious pirate.. i promise to try to do better though, if the prices are reasonable.

I didn't mean to come off as a anti-piracy snob, if that was how I sounded. I'm no saint in that regard, either. Haven't paid for TV in years, 90% of my software is pirated (especially since it seems like every piece of software is basically a subscription service now. Again, fuck Adobe.). But when it comes to bands, solo artists (like most of the Daz/Renderosity creators, in this context), and stuff of that sort, I try to support them as much as I can.