Ren'Py Reality check on the costs of art assets for a project?

[fyreant]

So I've learned how to use Ren'Py (surprisingly easy for someone who can't code) and made some very short practice games. I am considering developing an H visual novel for real now. Nothing very ambitious, of a short-ish length.

Let me start by saying that I have no illusions of breaking even in terms of cost, let alone making a profit. I'll do the usual of setting up a Patreon but honestly, what matters more to me is people playing a game I made and enjoying it.

But, I'm just trying to get a gauge of just how expensive what I'm planning here is. I just don't like 3D art. It's 2D or nothing for me. Some numbers I've seen searching online for how much the art assets for a hentai VN cost to produce are really eye-watering and I'm wondering if that's really accurate. I'd rather gather some more info before I ever talk to any artists.

To put it simply - I was hoping it's possible to do this for less than $1000 US. And hopefully, a few hundred less than that. Am I delusional?

What I'd had in mind is pretty much just limited to standing portraits and HCGs for 4 female characters, plus maybe a single standing portrait for the male MC (I plan on doing the mask/face covering/helmet thing, both because that's a convention for good reason and to avoid needing more than one expression). So that'd be, let's call it, 4 standing portraits for each girl. 3 of the girls would have 2 H-scenes and one would have just one. For each of those scenes I envision needing 2 to 3 full CG (call it an average of 2.5), plus variations (might try to sharpen my image editing skills so I can save on making my own variations but will probably lean towards just negotiating for a couple variations for each). Aside from all this, I plan to 'pad' the game out a little bit using AI generated art for a few less-detailed one-off scenes, since those won't be the "star attraction" and it can be accepted that the art will be a bit janky, and a consistent appearance won't need to be kept straight for multiple images unlike with the focus girls.

So that's a total of 17 standing portraits, plus 23 full H-images, not counting variations (eyes open/closed, different mouth expression, dripping cum, the usual stuff). Which makes an even 40. Is it realistic to expect to be able to find a halfway decent artist willing to do these for an average of $25 a pop (maybe a bit less for standing portraits, a bit more for the actual H images), considering it'd be a large batch? Or am I off by a factor of 10?

 

[GNVE]

I haven't hired a 2d artist so I can't say for sure. I would guess you are at least off by a factor of 2-3 though a lot of artists will ask more for commercial work and then a factor of 10 might indeed be right. But an emotion swap might be cheaper.

You might save a little by making sure you really need the emotion for character X or Y. If you don't (really) need it, it saves at least some money.

Anyway have you thought about honey select? it also has a more 2D aesthetic. Many dev's use that program for their game and it will be a lot cheaper. (even if you go the official route and buy the assets). Sure it might not have the exact look you are going for but sometimes settling for second best might be better.

I would have loved to make my games in a 2D drawn aesthetic but since I can't draw for the life of me I went with 3D Daz.

 

[fyreant]

Argh, I was afraid of that. I may need to trim the scope somewhat and find a way to rely even more on AI generated stuff. Maybe start with less "full quality" scenes and make adding more a stretch goal or something.

Which raises another interesting question. Does something that's going to be released for free count as "commercial" if I have a patreon?

 

[Winterfire]

Let me start by saying that I have no illusions of breaking even in terms of cost, let alone making a profit. I'll do the usual of setting up a Patreon but honestly, what matters more to me is people playing a game I made and enjoying it.

Good on you. Many people see a few successful devs and decide that it is a good investment. It's not. It may have worked for some lucky/talented people, but more often than not you'll fail.

To put it simply - I was hoping it's possible to do this for less than $1000 US. And hopefully, a few hundred less than that. Am I delusional?

Yes, I know a few devs that pay 200 dollars per cg (2D), even if it was half of that, you'd still buy around 10 CGs for 1k, which is not nearly enough to make a whole game, even a short one (as they want to be paid for variants too).

Argh, I was afraid of that. I may need to trim the scope somewhat and find a way to rely even more on AI generated stuff. Maybe start with less "full quality" scenes and make adding more a stretch goal or something.

I have tried AI art and unfortunately it's not good enough for a game. Many people would say otherwise by showing a pretty example, but it's really just pretty colors put together, a careful look at the image would show just how broken it is.

I'd suggest to either give up, or push forward with Koikatsu which is very anime/cartoony like. It could be temporary, too.
If your game is somewhat successful and you earn enough on Patreon, you can use that money to redo the art in 2D.
If you are willing to learn and spend a lot of time and effort into it, you could even learn Unity and Blender... Blender can do stuff like this:

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and Unity has various shaders such as this:

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together they can create scenes that almost fit a 2D environment... Nowdays even anime use 3DCG in some instances, some stand out more than others (usually bad 3DCG), still it can be done.

 

[GNVE]

Which raises another interesting question. Does something that's going to be released for free count as "commercial" if I have a patreon?

If you are trying to make money off of it, it is commercial. Even if you don't make a single cent. Yes using Patreon makes it commercial. You are selling the game indirectly. That being said some artists might have a different definition.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So that's a total of 17 standing portraits, plus 23 full H-images, not counting variations (eyes open/closed, different mouth expression, dripping cum, the usual stuff). Which makes an even 40.

Let's take a game as example. I'll use Blossoming Love, it have 3D CGs, but it follow the same sprite logic than your idea and is really an extremely basic game. It have 405 images, 117 of them being backgrounds and sprites for the 8 (6 females, 2 males) characters... The 288 others being the lewd scenes.
Another possible example is Sexymom Adventures (I wonder why ). It's a short game, relatively basic that, he'll correct me if I'm wrong, it's creator used mostly as draft to learn the rope. And it have 100 images.

So, I fear that your count of 40 images is really low...

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

If you are trying to make money off of it, it is commercial. Even if you don't make a single cent. Yes using Patreon makes it commercial. You are selling the game indirectly. That being said some artists might have a different definition.

No, the game becomes commercial if it is commercialized, when a digital copy can be purchased for a price that is not free.

Patreon is the developmental stream and doesn't account for commercialization because you can't directly sell games through Patreon.

 

[PaperDevil]

Quality 2D art is very expensive compared to 3D art. 3D art can be reused and modified to create variety, whereas 2D art is much harder to reuse without it being really obvious. If you want to be cost-effective then 3D is the way to go.

 

[MissFortune]

Could always give tracing a go, no?

Use Daz to model/clothe/fill your scenes/figures/characters/etc., and then trace them either via printed or in something like Photoshop/similar software. Then you can either use AI for any recurring background or pay an artist to do them. Might take a bit of learning, but cheaper than paying an artist for it all.

No, the game becomes commercial if it is commercialized, when a digital copy can be purchased for a price that is not free.

Patreon is the developmental stream and doesn't account for commercialization because you can't directly sell games through Patreon.

It's a gray area, but still very much commercial in the many. Commerical use is often described as "the use of certain merchandise, tools or intellectual property for financial gain".

If your Patreon exists solely to cover time lost working, then it becomes for-profit and thus commercial. If you offer tiers for Patreons to gain early access to said project, a product is being offered and goods are exchanged for money.

 

[xj47]

There are some rendering techniques you could use to make the 3D art look less 3D-ish. It's not perfect but may be a reasonable compromise

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

It's a gray area, but still very much commercial in the many. Commerical use is often described as "the use of certain merchandise, tools or intellectual property for financial gain".

If your Patreon exists solely to cover time lost working, then it becomes for-profit and thus commercial. If you offer tiers for Patreons to gain early access to said project, a product is being offered and goods are exchanged.

It is indeed a grey area. You obvi have more Patreon-specific experience than me (started out a couple of months ago).

If you classify your Patreon tiers as demos of an unfinished product - then not considered commercial, and different licenses do not kick in.

If you offer Steam keys or early access to the game in exchange for an X sum of $$ - then commercial.

If you offer the latest update for download as a part of the tier sub - then this is as grey as it gets.

In the end, just get all licenses and don't get nuked by accident by corpos xD

 

[GNVE]

No, the game becomes commercial if it is commercialized, when a digital copy can be purchased for a price that is not free.

Patreon is the developmental stream and doesn't account for commercialization because you can't directly sell games through Patreon.

Yes I agree with that the game becomes commercial by being commercialized. But giving it away for free does not mean it is not commercialized. Most (free) adult games are full of links to Patreon/Itch/Subscribestar and messages to support the development of the game. So at the very least the games function as marketing material. While marketing material is often distributed for free though not always (F1/football/youtuber merch is marketing material you have to pay for, for instance) it is still quite clearly linked to the cost of doing business.
In the same vain you used to have shareware versions of programs. Sometimes the entire program would be included for X amount of days. The software would not become commercial after that period. It will be commercial for the entirety as it was trying to sell you the product during that period.

Also realize that having a blank Patreon will not gain you any followers. Patrons support you because of something they want. Your game is why they support you. There is a direct causal link between their support and your game. Again this ties your game directly to your business and thus it is a commercial product.

You don't even need to make money. If I were to setup a hair dressing salon in the middle of the desert a hundred miles from the nearest village it is still quite clearly a business even though I would only lose money on my ill fated venture.

 

[anne O'nymous]

No, the game becomes commercial if it is commercialized, when a digital copy can be purchased for a price that is not free.

Patreon is the developmental stream and doesn't account for commercialization because you can't directly sell games through Patreon.

You are confusing global vocabulary and legal vocabulary. The instant you earn money with the help of something, legally it's a commercial use.

The best example is probably music. The school annual spectacle isn't something commercialized, right ? Yet parents generally have to pay, because the said spectacle is used to raise some fund for the school, and the school have to pay the representation fees for the music they'll play, because legally speaking it's a commercial use of this music.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

You are confusing global vocabulary and legal vocabulary. The instant you earn money with the help of something, legally it's a commercial use.

The best example is probably music. The school annual spectacle isn't something commercialized, right ? Yet parents generally have to pay, because the said spectacle is used to raise some fund for the school, and the school have to pay the representation fees for the music they'll play, because legally speaking it's a commercial use of this music.

[the stuff below is from my government work experiences - idk how correct it is]

There is a difference between commercial activity and commercialization.

Patreon is a commercial activity. However, it is not inherently commercialization if it is used as a secondary tool, let's say with the intention that the final build comes to Steam, and Patreon is a development driver.

However, if the Patreon is the primary distribution method (intended), it is both commercial activity and commercialization. Same would apply for any other crowdfunding platforms.

But yeah, it's kinda weird, if you google it, you won't really be given a concrete answer.

Not a legal expert (or care about it), just pushed a lot of papers for my irl work in games

 

[Gwedelino]

From my experience, if you want to have quality work, then the expected prices would be something like this :

- 100$ or more for backgrounds artwork. Could be more if very complex background

- 50$ for standings sprites. Will be more costly for each new variant added (clothes/poses/expressions).

- Roughly 150$ for a single character HCG with 1 character and a complex background. Add 100$ for each additional characters.

These prices are no taking commercial fees into account.

It's just a price scale based on my personal experience. Prices will vary from one artist to another.